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Audi A6



  • blehrlichblehrlich Posts: 92
    The Lexus is great, and I upgraded the tire from 225/60 16 to 245/55 16, which results in a pretty good handling improvement, especially with a tire with a relatively firm sidewall.
    The Audi was great to drive aggressively and toss around, the sacrifice being what I call "luxury", which obviously means different things to different people. The quietness of the Lexus is a little odd after the Audi, but the silence of the cabin (no creaks, etc) is also nice. The biggest improvement for me, other than the obvious cushy ride on my hips and back, are the creature comforts of an unbelievable stereo and easy nav. system. For me, the trade-off was necessary.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 11,389
    I'm 26 and prefer my cars to have a stiff & punishing suspension, as long as it corners well...LOL! Different strokes for different folks.

    My Parents just turned in their 1998 CLK 320 Coupe (it was leased) for a 2002 Audi A6 3.0Q. My mom says the Audi feels much softer than her Mercedes.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2011 Pilot EX-L 4WD, 2015 Infiniti G37x Q40 AWD

  • timcartimcar Posts: 363
    I have no doubt the Mark Levinson sound system is wonderful. I'd love to have one in my 2.7T. But, isn't the Mark Levinson sound system part of a $14,045(!!!) package? The Bose is only an extra $750. While admittedly Lexus has also bundled a lot of other desirable things in the $14,045, I doubt ANY difference in a sound system would convince me I wanted to pay that much more. I haven't checked recently, but I think the premium sound systems in MB & BMW are also MUCH more than the A6's. That perhaps proves Mark's point that Audi should make such a high-end system available also. I think though that part of it may be German disdain for things unrelated to "Go." What, you want CUPHOLDERS?!?!
  • blehrlichblehrlich Posts: 92
    The Lexus stereo upgrade is part of the rediculously priced "Ultra Luxury" option, but is also available alone or with the nav system (that's what I got). The nice thing is that the option is available at all.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,343
    I have no problem that my Bose system is available in my -- at that moment in time -- topped out top of the line A6; my problem is that nothing else is available.

    To have the choice of an ok, good or great option -- within reason whatever its nature -- is the point that we are, I think, all making. Choices sell cars -- and with more and more and more options coming on the market uh, er, every Tuesday, so it seems, what is up with Audi.

    I own my own business, I have never not offered (within my niche) "more" if the paying customer wanted it. Hmm, isn't that business 101 -- "if the customer wants to buy something from you that you can provide and it is not illegal, immoral or fattening (unless you are a chef) -- sell it to them!"

    Check out the Audi Konfigurator on the German Audi web page -- the options that actually are marketed to customers are plentiful -- compared to what is brought to the US, that is.

    Check out Mercedes and BMW (US and overseas web configurators), too (even VW for pity's sake) -- so many choices, if you've got the will and a stack of hundred dollar bills, these companies seem more than willing to shorten the stack. I may not want to buy the Audi Navigation Plus TV receiver option -- for example -- but we either can have none or lightweight. And, why not use a DVD nav system? The tough part has to be the maps and we know they already exist, just ask the Lexus or Acura customer who owns one.

    And, for you Tim, on the other Konfigurators, you can order a sport package with comfort seats, sport seats or "recaro like seats." The willingness of the US consumer to -- CONSUME -- (at 66.7% of our economy) is well known. Audi needs to increase the menu of choices.

    As they say in "The Search for the Holy Grail" -- "help help, I'm being repressed!"
  • davkingdavking Posts: 51
    Which comes first the chicken or the egg? Audi may not offer many options in North America because of small market share, relative to Europe. But one way to increase market share might be to increase the number of options available to potential buyers. I suspect more options will become available as sales volume increases. Keep buying Audi's for the general good.
  • timcartimcar Posts: 363
    I'd have paid extra just to get the standard seats with a sports suspension. I think AoA is still working its way out of being almost out of business. Unfortunately, I think the unintended acceleration fiasco left them with product selections that are dominated by lawyers. Anything that can possibly be deemed a provocation to litigation gets a knee-jerk reaction: NO! Want your car programmed so you can open the windows and sunroof with the remote: NO! If you had a more extensive Nav that used a central screen, someone would probably rear-end the car in front of them looking at it, and so the thinking goes. Don't know when this is going to change.
  • jonnyjjonnyj Posts: 15
    For those of you who think the sound systems, standard or upgraded, are better in BMWs, go have a listen. The standard system in my 2000 328 is by far the worst I've had in any car, including Hondas. The upgraded Harmon Karden system isn't that much better, especially for an extra $1,200. I drove a 2002 A6 and while the system comes up short, it is better than what BMW offers. Markcincinnati -- I can't believe your friend chose the BMW for the stereo. There had to be other reasons.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,343
    My friend's BMW -- a 3 series (not M anything): black metallic (pearl), black leather interior, fancy wheels (upsized I presume) power everything, sunroof, etc. Little button on the transmission tunnel with the treble clef on it. Push the button and it was as if a thin veil was lifted from the mid and high end and a bottom end was added.

    It was better, maybe not $2,500 better, than my Audi Bose system. But, as we have all noted, when it is optional, the Audi audio option is between $650 and $750. Perhaps you do get what you pay for -- again not THE point. The option to throw $2,500 at a "factory" sound system (which, for the record, I probably would NOT do) doesn't exist. Now, also for the record, I probably would consider (over the current "top o the line Audi Bose offering") an additional $650 to $750. But if Audi also offered an ML system for yet an addition $X, I am certain they would have customers.

    Finally, when I sit in my other friend's BMW (7 series) with it's built in center dash color screen for his Sat Nav, and notice his integrated/removable phone system, it just makes me wonder why an Audi lawyer would think that Audi would be singled out for litigation if they offered the Sat Nav Plus system that is available elsewhere in the world.

    After my tour of the factory (6 times) in Germany, I also wonder why not bring a few more color choices to the US -- now maybe Purple Pearl would be foolish -- but to the previous point: if the customer looks at the color pallet and says "Purple Pearl" (and is willing to pay for it) who cares? It is (or should be) both revenue and income to Audi AG and Audi of America.

    Now on the color issue, I guess it could be argued that supporting that many colors would be a nightmare -- but why couldn't an authorized paint/ody shop order a part number and have it overnighted -- from Germany if that is what it took?

    Brand differentiation is (or is becoming at the very least) in part becoming the availability to offer "mass customization." Check out audiworld -- quattro Gmbh is now offering (for a price) Audi's allroad in 10 colors with a "full paint" option -- the article says "due to customer demand [sic]."

    Audi's own world web site offers the ability to customize their cars -- there must be a buck or Euro in it, or they wouldn't do it.

    So, who knows if the stereo was the "real reason" my friend bought the BMW -- he claims it is, and he put his money in BMW's bank account, not Audis.

    And, I agree, let's keep buying them (per the chicken and egg post).

    Believe it or not, I do not think we are making this a "complaining community forum" -- most of us are supporters, passionate customers if you will -- and I, for one, want to see my favorite brand get better and better.

    That's my story. . .
  • mpyles1mpyles1 Posts: 91
    I share your view, markcinicinnat, that it is legitimate to use this board to discuss things we don't like about the Audi. My guess is that someone in Audi USA marketing reads this board to capture feedback for future design decisions.

    I have read all the major car magazines for years, and I've noticed that certain manufacturers (almost always Honda, often Japanese, and very occasionally American) frequently make product changes based on observations made in the car press. I owned a 1998 Corvette which, among other problems, had chronic brake warpage. The car magazines said next to nothing about it, since the problem tended to develop under prolonged usage rather than in one-day test runs. But the Edmunds board was deluged with discussion about the Corvette brakes. Within two months, Car & Driver reported that Corvette was planning to upgrade the brakes in the next-generation Corvette because of customer complaints. Maybe these complaints came through dealers or warranty repair data . . . but maybe this board contributed. I have a 2000 Jaguar S-Type that has had transmission problems, despite a transmission replacement. Again, the Edmunds discussion board reported widespread problems with shift delays, ragged shifts, and so forth. Guess what? The S-Type now offers a ZF transmission option for those who don't like the Ford design. I also note that the 2002 Audi A6 is upgrading its front brakes. Once again, little mention of brake problems was raised in the car magazines, but this discussion board certainly had its share of complaints about A6 brake warpage.

    This board is a form of car press and, as with the car magazines, it captures the voice of people who tend to be car enthusiasts rather than average customers. I think the manufacturers listen -- perhaps eventually to act.

    I really like the Audi product. Otherwise I wouldn't be buying one. But that doesn't mean that we should not use this discussion board to lobby for continued refinement of the cars. That's one of the upsides to capitalism. Manufacturers eventually listen to the customer or pay the price.
  • buddybradbuddybrad Posts: 36
    I'm new to this board so please humor me a little. I'm starting to get into the market for a new car and have driven the A6 3.0 CVT and 2.7T auto. They were both mighty fine, but I would lean towards the turbo. Presently, I drive a '99 GS400. I've also tried the MB C32, E320, and E430. The E430 was also a great car, but 1. I can't see myself in a MB and 2. A brand new E Series comes out in August which is suppose to be much better. Yesterday I drove a BMW 530 & 540i. I was hoping I'd be happy with the 530 and it was a fine ride, but once I drove the 540i - that was the one to get if I were to get one. The Infiniti G35 & future M45 also are interesting, but the A6 2.7T just seems like a lot of car for the money.

    In 1985 I bought a new Audi 5000S and it was a beautiful car, but if I wouldn't have had an Extended Warranty, I'd still be paying off the repair bills. Consumer Reports shows the A6 to have a bad repair history and it sounds like folks on this site have had their share of problems.
    Are they still a high maintenance vehicle?

    timcar mentioned the little Nav system screen. What is that all about? I haven't seen a demo, but I have the full color screen in my GS and once you have Nav., you don't want to be without it, especially in Chicago. I'm just wondering if it does a satisfactory job?

    Here's a bonus question. The Audi, BMW, and MB all require multiple disks (6) for their Nav systems. You swap disks as you drive through regions of the country. My '99 GS400 and '00 Honda Odyssey only require 1 disk for the entire country. Why do you suppose the Germans make you have multiple disks?

    Thanks for the opinions.
  • audifoxaudifox Posts: 2
    I live in the Chicago area. I have a 99GS400 w/nav. I drove all the cars you drove. Next month, my 2002 A6 4.2 will be delivered. It has all of the options. Audi's nav is not map-graphic. Arrows and street ID's come through an info center screen directly in front of your face, mid dash. There is voice assistance. While I enjoyed the Lexus Nav, the fingerprint smudging drives me crazy.
    The Audi, IMO, has the best blend of Lexus luxury and BMW driveability. I prefer the V8 over the turbo--BUT get the 2.7 over the 3.0CVT. If you're staying in Chicago, get quattro AND snow tires. Audi has the BEST interiors. Audi, like BMW and MB included maintenance at no charge (4/50). The BMW 5's have a lot less room and the MB E series can option you over $60,000. The 3.2 V6 is a dog compared to Audi engines. Both the MB and BMW series you're looking at are being replaced for 2003.
    I belive you'll find that Audi, BMW and MB will not be as trouble-free as your Lexus. I believe that the A6 is a vastly superior and exhilirating driving experience compared to my GS400.
  • timcartimcar Posts: 363
    Thanks for crediting me with the remark regarding Nav, but I think I just commented on Mark's observations. I don't have the Nav, and I think Pete explained it well. Guess after 20+ years in sales, I take stubborn pride in reading maps, and remembering routes. A few more years and I'm sure I'll give in. Audi's Nav DOES sound more primitive than Lexus' & others, but I think I'd still prefer it's simplicity and having the display directly in front of me anyway.

    Brad, I think you and Pete have already sorted out the most significant differences between the various makes and models. The 540 is a heck of car, but without quattro, and at a heck of price. I think you'll find an A6 to be much more of driver's car than your GS, as good as the GS is. Even though I've got a 2.7T, I'd urge you to drive a 4.2 also. It has a wonderful V8 and better looks with a presence that other A6's just don't have. If you're looking for comparable handling with the BMW, I urge you to try the sport package. It's not too firm, and gives you even better control.

    As to reliability, (knock-on-wood) my 2.7T with about 19K has only needed paid for maintenance and an auxiliary cooling fan under warranty. There have been some specific A6's that have been problematic, but that's been true of all manufacturers, including BMW, MB and to a lesser extent, even Lexus. CR has knocked the A6. But to put this problem in it's true perspective, I'm sitting here with CR's 2002 Buying Guide. The last model year reported on is 2000. They report on 14 "Reliability Areas." In 10 of those the 2000 A6 has the best possible rating, with less than 2% of those surveyed reporting problems. In the remaining four, it was between 2% and 5% who reported a problem. And remember these problems can be as trivial as a piece of trim coming loose. These aren't bad odds, even if you accept CR's methodology, which I think is suspect.

    Anecdotal reports suggest that early model year A6's were more problematic, and each year of production they've become less so. 2000 model year 2.7T's seemed to have more problems, and '01 far fewer. It's likely the '02's will be the most reliable A6's ever made. All high-end German cars can be very expensive to maintain out of warranty. If you're planning on driving much beyond the 50K limit, I'd suggest investigating a good long-term warranty.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,343
    I have two Audis in my garage -- both have the Audi factory Sat Nav "lite" (as I call it).

    First, I must tell you that I have driven with the Hertz Neverlost system, I have test driven a Mercedes S class with the navagation system (a 2001 model) and one of my close friends has a 2001 BMW 740i with the navagation system.

    I prefer my friends BMW system to all of them.

    They all will get you from point a to point b with almost uncanny accuracy.

    The Audi and the Mercedes systems are in every way bu one identical -- the Mercedes has a 16 x 9 color screen with a "moving map" and some other things that I would prefer having. However, the voice commands and arrows on the Mecedes were similar to the Audi's. And, in spite of my carping, the Audi system does the job and with annual map updates has been impressive.

    My issue is that it doesn't fit in a $54K car -- the smallish, monochrome screen with arrows (but no map function) just seems out of place at this price class.

    But again, make no mistake -- the Audi system works very well -- to me however it would be like a Rolex with a plastic Swatch watch band -- they don't "go together" (IMHO).

    I wouldn't be without mine -- and I do hope the Germans go to the DVD system; who knows why they don't use that system currently (my friend's BMW is the same way -- 6 CD's for the country).
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,343
    I agree with Tim virtually across the board -- while I have had nits to pick with my 2001 A6 4.2 with sport package (actually with every package) -- only one area has been a nuisance -- the brakes (and not from a stopping or safety point of view). I will not elaborate on my problems except to say that I have been very well treated by Audi of America and my local dealer.

    Moreover, the brakes on the 2002's were changed -- I like to think it is because of the Internet and places like Edmunds and

    I cannot "put down" any of the cars mentioned in the recent posts that people are test driving.

    I would gladly take a BMW 540i -- but with my own money I will buy Audi's for several reasons -- and these reasons make it difficult FOR ME to compare the BMW 540 with the A6 4.2 for example. Here goes:

    content for money (value)

    I do believe the 540i will -- in a straight line under "perfect" conditions out drag the A6 (the performance numbers available from the mfg's bear this out.)

    I, for one, rarely have perfect driving conditions -- and I suspect a 540i (under said perfect conditions) will also "out corner" my A6 4.2.

    But as one Car and Driver (or other car magazine) writer said, the Audi is greater than the sum of its individual specifications -- it may be out accelerated or out "g forced" in a corner, but overall the Audi performs at or above its "peer group."

    There is no denying a manual transmission 540i is awesome. But, here in Cincinnapolis USA, wait a day, the weather changes, the pot holes are born, live and die -- and the Audi keeps up with (and often passes) der Bimmers and Mercs.

    When, not if, Audi brings its cars closer to a 50 -50 weight distribution and increases the power and torque and applies active handling technologies to their cars, there will be no explanations or summarizations like the one above needed.

    Oh, that's right, they've already done that it is called an RS6 -- 0 - 62mph in 4.9 seconds and active suspension technology. Can't wait for the trickle down to the rest of the line.

    Anyway the other Germans and some of the Japanese offer some mighty fine cars -- for me, however, they just can't be (currently) compared to the Audi's with quattro and the other "stuff" discussed on this forum.

    To steal a phrase, Audi quattro -- nothing else even comes close.
  • mpyles1mpyles1 Posts: 91
    One of the car mag's (I cannot remember which one) recently did one of their regular "shoot-outs" between 5 sport sedans. As much as they usually rave over the BMW (and justifiably so, based on the ones I've driven), the Audi A6 4.2 and the BMW 540i came out almost in a dead heat on handling. The conclusion was something like "the BMW nosed out the Audi today, but on a different day it could have gone the other way. They were just that close." Pretty damned good for the Audi, given the BMW beats it on most objective measures that affect handling in the twisties (curb weight, weight distribution, torque).
  • audifoxaudifox Posts: 2
    If it's same one I'm thinking of, about 6 months ago, they rated it BMW540i, A6 4.2 and GS430 as 1/2/3. Surprisingly, it was a 2001 A6 with 20k miles vs a 2002 540i.Apparently Audi couldn't come up with a 2002 and Lexus couldn't find a GS with the sport package.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,343
    CAR magazine gave the 540i the nod by a nose, Motor Trend gave the honors to the Audi.

    And so it goes. Car and Driver put the 2.7T and 4.2 on their 10 best list.

    They are close -- but that sweet BMW engine is oh so nice. Sometimes I wish Audi and the BMW (4.2 A6 and 540i manual) would "breed" -- their offspring, it would seem would be unbeatable -- but again perhaps that is just what they (Audi) had in mind with the RS6.
  • kirby2010kirby2010 Posts: 136
    buddybrad - I, too, looked at the cars on your list. I actually started looking at a Volvo. I've been very happy with the Audi (2.7T, 6 speed). I really did want a manual so that limited the field. I would have been happy with an automatic if any one of the cars in this class were even marginally better than Audi. For practical purposes performance is a wash where I live - lots of two lane country roads - and once on the highway it's tough to get away with much over 75 or 80 mph. Still, for me anyway, the excitement of driving this car exceeds that of others in this class. Every chance I get I push it as hard as I dare.

    In addition the interior is very comfortable - I like the elbow room and passenger space over the BMW. I think Audi has a nicer interior than BMW and most of the others, too. Bottom line is I'm very pleased with the car. I've made several road trips and have begun to do some local travel as well. All the way around - a pleasure to drive and own.
  • jonnyjjonnyj Posts: 15
    Markcincinnati brought up the issue of colors. I was looking at the 5 series brochure today and noticed that they have about ten shades of grey -- dark, light, bluish, greenish, beigish. I don't even think they're doing red in the 5 series anymore. Are Markcincinnati and I the only ones bored to tears with the color choices from Germany these days?
  • bjbird2bjbird2 Posts: 647
    The German cars now have some serious competition with the Infiniti G-35. Check the postings on that site, and take one for a teat drive.
  • bjbird2bjbird2 Posts: 647
    Sorry, that last message should read test drive.
  • buddybradbuddybrad Posts: 36
    I certainly appreciate all the input. I've pretty much ruled out MB due to the fact (as someone pointed out) if you buy the E430 you're getting close to $60K wo/AWD. The new E Series will be out in Aug. and I can't see them being any cheaper. It's true I haven't driven the A6 4.2 and I really should to have an apples-to-apples comparison to a 540i. My hope was to be satisfied with the 2.7T and save the ~$5K. Maybe add a chip, low restriction air intake, and possibly different exhaust and come up with H.P. close to the 4.2 with less weight. What I don't want is a loud sounding car with a voided warranty. I will admit though - those 4.2's look awfully nice from behind with those fat tires and flared fenders!

    I also agree with the person who said the Audi has a nicer interior and I believe the dashboard and gauges are nicer than the BMW. What jonnyi points out about BMW color selection is true too - they are very dull except for 1 shade of blue. As the BMW salesman put it, "our colors this year are very MUTED."

    bjbird2 mentions the Infiniti G35 and that does look like a nice car for the price. Good interior room, V6 w/260 H.P. and auto-stick. They build engines for the IRL so they know what they're doing. You can even get an official Nav. system in it. I didn't drive it, but I did sit in it and the interior can't compare to the Audi. The M45 coming out in a few months will be a more fair comparison (I'm guessing). It'll have a V8 w/340 H.P. and start in the low $40's.

    timcar and kirby2010, approximately what kind of discount did you get off of sticker for your 2.7T if I may ask? Is it the same % off for the 4.2's?
  • amarchanamarchan Posts: 23
    I own a tiptronic 2001 2.7. I did not get the sports package since the seats were too narrow for me. I just took in my car for the 10,000 mile service and was given a loaner, 2000 2.7, with regular seats but with a definite difference in the suspension - tighter, less roll in curves but with a softer (albeit tighter, does that make sense?) ride over expansion joints on the highway. The dealer does not know if the springs are different or not. First, is there a difference in the standard suspension between 2000 and 2001? I suspect this car had the sport springs. The wheels in my car feel "busier" in regular highway driving, and the steering not as precise. The loaner loved being tossed around curves while my car does not. Same wheels and tires. Tire pressure was the same.
    Is the difference I experienced what I should expect if I go with the sport springs (which I believe are Eibach springs)?
    Can you run me through what I should expect in ride quality and hanndling with the Eibach springs? After driving that loaner I feel I'm driving a GM sedan when I drive my car now.

    Thanks for the input
  • timcartimcar Posts: 363
    In January '01 I paid $1700 over DEALER invoice. This would be about $3000 off sticker. This is in a very competitive market. Have read that the discount depends on the market and dealer. If you have a number of dealers, it pays to shop. Had one offer of $1200 over invoice, but preferred doing business with a different dealer. Have read that many dealers want more over invoice on 4.2's because of the bigger sticker and comparative rarity. It's getting close to the end of the model year, Audi Financial has been incenting the 2.7T, and there should be good deals out there.
  • timcartimcar Posts: 363
    I've got a non-sport 2.7T for the same reason. As far as I know, the 2000 & 2001 had the same standard suspension. For '02, both standard and sport suspensions were actually FIRMED. I was going to suggest different tires, which can make a lot of difference, but you said they're the same. I strongly suspect the car you drove was modded. You should be able to tell if the car you drove had Eibachs by the ride height. Cars with Eibach springs will ride about 1 1/2" lower than the standard non-sport suspension. If not, I'd bet on the car you drove having been fitted with the anti-roll bar from the sport suspension. This is an inexpensive mod that many have reported makes a significant difference, and improvement, in handling. There are various sources and prices to obtain one. People more talented than me can install one themselves, though it's a pain.

    I haven't experienced Eibachs, but have read that it firms the ride quite a bit. I'd also try your question on AW, were the performance enthusiasts hang out:

  • amarchanamarchan Posts: 23
    Thanks for your input. The people at Audi put the car up on a lift and indeed the car has the sport springs from the Audi catalogue. One of the managers was driving this car and wanted to firm it up. Now it's a loaner. From what I was told by Audi the springs are made by Eibach but are in-between the standard springs and the Sportline Eibach springs in firmness. It REALLY changes the character of the car. It steers, corners and brakes better (much less dive). It also quiets the suspension, which now after driving my car again I find somewhat jittery, and it is not harsh at all over road imperfections. The car just begs to be driven harder.
    Thanks for the Audiworld Forum suggestion.
  • What kinds of lease incentives are pepole seeing on 2.7T's these days/ Car_Man over on the financing board says Audi Financial Services has a .0005 money factor on 39 month leases in VA/DC/MD area, but the dealers are pretending like they never heard of those rates. I'm getting lease rate money quotes from anywhere between .0009 to .0021, all on the exact same lease supposedly representing AFS "official" terms.
  • kirby2010kirby2010 Posts: 136
    In response to buddybrad (above) - I don't recall the actual dollars. I offered a round number - probably $1500 over invoice. Dealer countered with a slightly higher figure which I was happy with and accepted on the spot. When I got home I did the math - his figure was 4.5% of invoice. I'm guessing he had a floor - it was February, this is New England, the economy was good (still is). In the end I still paid less than $1800 over invoice. My personal view - directed at no one in particular - if $300 to $500 makes a difference in your decision you're looking at the wrong car.

    Looking back - it was about a year ago or so when the discussion centered on gas prices and the pros and cons of mixing mid-grade and premium, or worse, running mid-grade gas in the car. Same comment as above: anyone not in a position to run premium in the car should look on. I'd hate to hear from CR that Audi owners were unhappy with performance, and in typical CR half-the-story fashion fail to mention that the data was collected six months after the Iraqis cut oil exports and drove up gas prices.
  • buddybradbuddybrad Posts: 36
    I'm glad you fellows mentioned something about the seats being different as far as width goes between the standard and sports models. I might not have paid that close attention. Now I will have to give it the "thorough butt test."

    A 4.2 pulled next to me and my GS400 today on the toll road on the way to work. On a normal day you have to do 75-80 mph just to keep up with traffic. I wanted to see how well the thing runs, but there were too many cars. Besides, I think he had a bowl of gold fish on the front seat.
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