Lexus IS 300

riez

Per Lexus Magazine, Qtr 1/2004, p. 8, under "Sporting News":

"Next off the assembly line: the exclusive Lexus IS300 and ES SportDesigns, available for a limited time this spring. Think of these special editions as alternative styles for each model. The IS SportDesign accentuates the IS's jaunty look with 11-spoke dark-finished wheels, a new Smoke leather interior trim that matches the vehicle's new Alabaster exterior tone, and a lustrous titanium finish around the headlamps, tail lamps, and fog lamps. ... Check dealers in February for the IS SportDesign...."

Still purplexes me that Lexus and TRD won't at least give the IS300 a supercharged edition. If it is good enough for Camrys and Scion, then why not the IS300? (Would go along well with a 6-speed manual, too.)

callmedrfill

AutoSpies says the LF-S is going to turn into the 2006 Lexus IS!

  The GS was too far along to make good-looking, so the idea behind that concept is to start the new styling philosophy with the IS redesign.

  DrFill

ron_m

Hi mica88, jmess and riez,

First of all, I apologize for the delayed response to your automatic transmission-related posts. Since I started the dialogue pertaining to this topic, I feel as though I should try and respond to all three of you guys' posts.

Overall, I would say that I have been satisfied with my IS300's transmission reliability and shifting behavior thus far. It does seem as though the drive-by-wire technology is what sometimes deludes the driver into thinking that their transmission is slipping a bit. I had another drive-by-wire vehicle before purchasing my IS300, and it took me forever to get used to the delayed acceleration response. But once these types of vehicles take off, they really take off!<grins>

The only fairly significant complaint that I currently have with my IS300's transmission is the short shift points between 1st, 2nd and 3rd gears. It just shifts way too soon for my personal taste--although it is a very, very smooth transition between gears. In regular 'D' mode, the vehicle just doesn't get wound out good at all before it shifts. But the 3-4 and 4-5 shifts are comparable to other sports cars that I have driven in the past that had automatic transmissions. Most of my sports cars have had manual transmissions, except my 1990 Nissan 300ZX which I still own and adore to this day. Of course when I start in 'M' mode, I can control the shift points myself. This is pretty cool.

Get this. Someone on the alt.autos.lexus Usenet forum stated that Saturday morning their local Lexus dealership had SEVEN IS300s on the showroom floor. The showroom floor capacity was supposedly SEVEN! Maybe Lexus is planning on promoting the sales of these vehicles with more fervor than some of us previously thought. Myself included.
;-)

Ron M.

superman5

supercharger is bit too tight for the engine bay, go look at IS300's engine bay,the motor sits too high for the blower....i believe

rsr742002

11 spoke wheels and black badges just don't look right IMO. The 5 spoke design is excellent.

_elle_

(i had posted this earlier on the news & views board and someone recommended checking out the IS 300 on the sedans section so this is a copy of what i had posted earlier.)

hi! i am considering purchasing a car and could
use all the help i can find in making some decisions.

just a little background as far as cars that i am
 sort of considering (although i think that the
lexus is the best of both worlds for the price)
 i have test driven the 2004 honda v6 coupe with
the 6-speed manual transmission, a 2001 BMW 325
(5-speed MT), and a 2003 IS 300 with an automatic
 transmission. i have not yet test-driven the IS
300 in the manual transmission, but there is a CPO IS 300 with the MT that i would like to test drive.

out of the cars i did test drive (in my opinion),
i was most pleased with the BMW, however, it was
priced at about $25-$26k with 53k miles. the
lexus was a very close second. i think the
larger trunk space and the fact that i test drove the IS 300 in an AT made the bimmer jump ahead.
the honda was ok for what it was, but didn't quite measure up since i'm a little biased
towards RWD sporty cars--i'm currently a miata
driver who is thinking about upgrading to a larger and safer car.

before test driving the CPO IS 300, i wanted to
find out what people who have purchased cars
through the lexus CPO program thought about the
program and if they had any advice for a
potential CPO buyer. all help is very graciously
 appreciated!

thank you!!

jmess

Don't have any personal CPO experience but I worked with a woman who had a CPO LS for a few years then wrecked it and bought another CPO LS. She was very happy with the local dealer and the CPO program and she didn't hesitate to get another CPO car to replace the one she wrecked.

Prior to buying my car I had spent a lot of time riding in both of her LS cars and in a leased SC300 owned by another co-worker. I was impressed with the quality of both cars and the owners were very happy with Lexus service. Both of these folks were instrumental in my becoming a Lexus owner.

The only advice that I could offer is don't be afraid to try and knock the price down on the CPO car. Make what you think is a fair offer and give them time to think it over if they don't take it. You can buy a new 04 IS300 for pretty close to invoice so base you offer on the street price of new car and not MSRP.

You didn't say what year the CPO IS300 car was. The nice thing about the 03s is they have seat adjustment memory. Other than that they are pretty much the same as an 02.

riez

'04s have the seat memory, revised interior trim, and closed storage bin on top of dash (in lieu of navigation system). My wife loves her '03 IS300 automatic. I love my '04 IS300 manual. Both are great cars that bring a ton of smiles per mile.

I see a lot of used '01 IS300s on Lexus dealers' lots. The '01s are only automatics and don't have side curtain airbags or stability control.

CPO is a great program. You get the remainder of the original warranty plus any additional CPO coverage. I had two CPO BMWs and swear by the program. Only way to buy a premium marque used car.

Take a thorough test drive. See if it meets your needs--price, performance, reliability, service, value, standard equipment, etc. Think the IS300 will.

What you buy depends on what you need and can afford. If you have a family, the IS300 might be a tad bit smallish, though that also applies to 325i.

There is a huge driving dynamic difference between FWDer like Honda Accord V6 or Acura TSX or TL and the RWDers like IS300 or 325i.

Make sure to get one with LSD (limited slip differential)!!!

_elle_

thanks for the insight on the CPO program!! the dealer where i found this car online is about an hour from where i live, so i'm going to call them Friday and see if the car is still on their lot...if it is, i'm heading over for a test drive!

details on the CPO Lexus:

2002 IS 300 w/ 5-speed manual, it has 22,440 miles, traction control, full leather, 6-cd changer, snow mode, ABS, 17" wheels, sunroof, sliver ext/black int. i cannot remember if this one had the LSD or not...Their list is $26,900 (which i think is kinda high for a 2-year old car and i wouldn't hesitate to work on them to lower their price).

yeah i did notice a big difference from test driving the honda v6 6-speed and then the bimmer and lexus. i will give honda props tho for giving the coupe a better suspension to kidna 'hide' that it's FWD, altho i do prefer the smoother acceleration in the inline 6s in the bimmer and lexus compared to the v6...oh btw--i test drove an acura cl (not the s-type) and hated it (too front heavy).

as far as lexus is concerned, i have heard good things about their customer service (well at least from the sales person). and i've read up on the brand and i'm pleased to see that lexus in general has a high reliability.

i did think that the is 300 was much smaller than the bmw 325 (especially in the trunk), however i don't have kids, don't really haul a bunch of stuff, and since i drive a miata now, anything else would be a relatively bigger car. and i know that i do want something sportier that performs well (even if that means sacrificing practicality). i really like the bimmer A LOT, however, the is 300 seems like a fantastic car w/ good performance and reliability for a few grand less than the bmw.

kyfdx

These came out in April of '01, I think... That car could be close to 3 years old, not that it means much, if you are getting CPO. The nice thing about the CPO warranty is the 100k total vehicle miles. If you drive a lot, you still aren't likely to use up the warranty in less than 3 years.

regards,
kyfdx

_elle_

hello again! i hope everyone isn't getting sick of me posting questions, but as a prospective is 300 buyer, i want to find out as much info as possible!

what are the intervals b/t regularly scheduled maintenance issues, e.g. oil change, timing belt, air filter, etc? i guess what i also want to know is how easy to maintain is the is 300?

and i'm sure that it differs from dealer to dealer, but what have your experiences been when you have gone to the dealer for either regular service or to have something repaired?

thanks so much~!

riez

Service at your average Lexus, Infiniti, or Acura dealer is outstanding. I've owned 2 Infiniti and 2 Lexus. They treat you like a king. Beautiful dealerships.

Used to own 2 BMWs. The service experience was mediocre. No waiting area at the BMW dealer; had to wait over at the co-located Ford dealer. Only provided loaner cars if you bought from them. The difference is night and day. Much prefer the Lexus dealer.

As for maintenance costs, you'd have to read the owners manual and calculate how long you plan to drive it and how much you drive it per year. Lexus does NOT provide free maintenance like BMW, MB, Audi, etc. All a new buyer gets is the 1st oil service. They have the normal 7.5K interval and a reduced interval one for heavy use conditions.

You should check out Intellichoice and others who track long-term ownership costs.

There are some published long-term tests.

1. Car & Driver, March 2002: They put on about 40,000 miles on their '01 IS300 automatic. Service cost them $708. Normal wear cost $1,016. Repair was $0. They got 30,000 miles out of their tires. The wear cost was the new set of 4 tires (at $249 per tire). For routine service, they paid $66 at 15K, $200 at 22.5K, and $326 at 30K, and $116 at 37.5K. [They noted that their '99 323i cost only $427 in service. That number today would be zero as BMW provides free maintenance for 4/50.]

2. Road & Track, April 2002: They put 50,430 miles on their '01 IS300 automatic. Routine maintenance cost them $1,000. Repairs & replacements not covered under warranty was $586 (which was a new set of 4 tires). They paid $350 for the 50K service. They rated "ownership cost" as "average". Total cost per mile only 31 cents (including gas and depreciation) versus their historical average of 36 cents for all tests. They rated "Reliability" as "Excellent".

3. Motor Trend, August 2002: They put on 11,316 miles in their 1-yr test of an '01 IS300 automatic. No problem areas. No non-warranty costs

riez

elle... Check out NHTSA and IIHS for IS300 crash test results. They have been good.

Consumer Reports rates IS300 very highly. They recommend it. Great reliability. Fun to drive.

fredmcmurray

elle - My only issue with CPO cars is that when I was looking they were priced higher than what new cars were selling for. A brand new, 2004 IS, equipped like the one you are describing has an invoice of around $27.8K. When I was shopping, ISs were selling for $800-1500 below invoice. I told several dealers that I would be interested in a CPO car only if I could save several thousand dollars over the price of a brand new one. They all told me I should just buy a brand new one.
I guess they are counting on people who just look at the MSRP of the new ones and think they are saving a bunch of money on the used car.
My advice is to investigate what you can get a new one for so you know how much you are saving by going CPO.

riez

elle... fredmcmurray is right. If you are trying to buy a year old CPO unit, it will cost nearly as much as a new car. And Lexus will likely have incentives on the new car that make it all the more price competitive. Remember, Lexus wants to move new cars that just were built in the factory. They care less about moving used cars that were built years ago. Dealers, on the other hand, actually make more profit selling used cars. Such is life in the car business. And dont forget to take resale value into the equation. The new '04 is two MYs newer than an '02. That will directly impact how much both cars will be worth in 2006 or 2008.

nyccarguy

well, it sounds as if you'r closer to making your decision than you think. The V6 Accord Coupe is nice, but being a RWD fan (and a miata driver) pretty much gets it turned away at the door. I'm as big a BMW fan as anybody, but 53K miles on a 325i (CPO or not) seems like a lot. Definitely check out the new '04s and see what's out there. It may only be marginally more expensive than a CPO '02 (like reiz & fred said).

wale_bate1

Here kids!

http://is300.net/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=6- 4&mode=&order=0&thold=0

It's the latest news from Toyota itself. Quite a bit about the IS. A confirmation of a coupe and convertible, but likely the loss of the SportCross (or so it would seem), which is what put me in an IS in the first place. [sigh]

It would also appear that an IS430 is almost inevitable, given that Lexus will pursue an M/AMG type of performance strategy. Hopefully it won't be the unfortunate acronym TRD!

riez

So the COO of Toyota Motor Sales U.S.A. says most Lexus growth will come from the lower end of the lineup and the next generation IS300 will offer several versions when it arrives late in 2005 as a MY 2006.

Mentions "an all-but-ignored wagon" but that only happened because Lexus/Toyota wouldn't market it!

Find it fascinating that the COO claims the key to Lexus volume growth is the IS 300. Heck, the key has been SUVs and ES model. If true, where has been all the IS300 advertising? And why no IS200 6-speed model? And why did they initially release it only with an automatic transmission? And where is TRD support? Couldn't cost much to supercharge it thru TRD!?

And the Lexus chief promises the IS 300 replacement will do a better job competing against all the BMW 3 series variants. What has stopped him so far? Glad to see they'll have a sedan, coupe and convertible, all-wheel drive and a couple of engine choices. Yes, it is a huge opportunity. Do they have all the money? Will the various models be phased in over time like VW did with the convertible and turbo New Beetles?

Loved the comment about "Right now the IS 300 has a cult following, but we could be doing 5,000 or 6,000 units a month." Yeah, if only they would've introduced it and maintained it properly. Why doesn't he admit they/he screwed up?

But, unless I missed it, I didn't see any mention of the V6 issue. An IS300 with a V6 is not an appealing thought to me!

An no mention of pricing for the high performance version. Not sure anyone is ready to pay $50,000 for an IS430. They better price it right. No more than $40,000.

riez

Checked out the Lexus USA web page. Mostly appearance related with a smidge of suspension work for the 5-speed manual models. But heck, they were already supposed to have a more aggressive suspension set up than the automatic transmission versions.

http://www.lexus.com/models/is/eshift_sportdesign.html

riez

Snowed 10.5 inches on Sunday and Monday. Both wife and I have had good luck driving around in our IS300s-my manual and her automatic.

I even drove 120 miles in the middle of the snowstorm on Monday. Got to my destination and back safely. Saw 4 vehicles in ditch, including a new Nissan Maxima (as well as a Stratus, Camaro, and full-size van).

Have been able to get around town the past 3 days with no problems.

LSD (we both have it), ABS/TC, and, for her automatic, VSC have come in very handy. I really do wish the manuals came with VSC.

And we did this on the crappy all-season tires that came with the cars. I'm chomping at the bit to buy summer tires in spring and then I'll give my set to my wife. Use winter tires next winter.

riez

Pulled the latest Toyota/Lexus sales data. See their 1/5/04 press release.

SUVs, not cars, seem to be the boon for Lexus. Can't imagine Toyota is going to give Lexus a fortune to develop all the purported future IS300 models/variants.

In December, 2003, Lexus SUVs comprised 55.15% of sales versus only 44.85% for all cars combined. That was 15,538 Lexus SUVs against only 12,638 Lexus cars. The LS430 sold 3,087. (IS and GS sales must have been poor as they didn't want to give data for either car, and ES must not have been too hot either, as it wasn't reported.)

In all of 2003, Lexus SUVs comprised 51.18% of sales versus only 48.82% for all cars. That was 132,935 Lexus SUVs against 126,820 Lexus cars. The RX alone accounted for 92,366 sales with the GX at 31,376. Lexus car sales so poor in CY2003 that the press release refuses to give any specific car sales for any model. That is most telling!

The ES is the far away best selling Lexus car. It and the LS have been combining for over 75% or more of Lexus car sales.

Doesn't seem like this would bode well for massive investment in IS300.

wale_bate1

And yet that's precisely where the COO of Toyota USA says the volume growth for Lexus will come; the IS!

I think the article was pretty clear that development costs for the IS are not at issue. That's the good news. The bad news is the possibility that I will have to shop elsewhere when my lease is up with no SportCross replacement on tap.

nyccarguy

You don't see too many of them on the road around here in NYC. Much more Lexus SUVs (or LUVs as they refer to them in the commercials).

The IS is important though. What is the average age of a Lexus buyer? They've got to get some younger blood excited about their brand. Maybe the other brands are so popular and profitable that leaves Lexus room to play with the IS line.

The GS has been around since 1998 and the LS is a pretty darn expensive car. That could be part od the reason they didn't report sales data on the cars.

riez

nyccarguy... Lexus/Toyota report sales for a specific model when there is growth. They love to write something like "Sales of the LS430 were up 24 percent over the same period last year." If there is no growth or negative growth, then they don't provide data. The two big things they have been talking about for about the past 6 monthly sales press releases have been on the RX and GX, esp. the latter.

maxhonda99

riez,

"Lexus/Toyota report sales for a specific model when there is growth. They love to write something like "Sales of the LS430 were up 24 percent over the same period last year." If there is no growth or negative growth, then they don't provide data."

WHich manufacturer doesn't do that? If you read press releases for any carmaker, they basically say the same thing.

But, if you read the press releases that come out the first few days of the month for the previous month, it lists monthly sales, YTD sales for the current year and prior year. And that is for all models. You can go to PRnewswire.com and do a search for Lexus or Toyota and their press release will come up from Jan 2 or 3 with sales figures for all models.

maxhonda99

If Lexus has grown the market for cars such as the ES and RX to the lofty levels they are at of course they are going to turn their attention to other products. Think about it, The ES330 or RX330 doesn't have much room for growth. The ES330 is one of the best selling cars in it's class and the RX330 blows away every other competitor in it's class. And the LS430 is also a top seller, so that leaves cars like the IS300 and the GS-series to which they have to give their attention.

riez

maxhonda99... Please provide the link. Thanks.

The press releases I'm citing are from both the Toyota USA and Lexus USA web site. The type you mention are not on these two web sites.

riez

Manufacturers like to focus in markets they dominate and markets that make them the highest returns on their investments.

IS and GS do not dominate their markets. And neither is a high profit item. The IS is in a most highly competitive market. Just consider all of its potential competitors. Everything from Subaru WRX to BMW 330i, Acura TSX to Jaguar X-type 3.0, VW Passat to Saab 9-3, Nissan Maxima to MB C-class. CR lists 15 cars in the same category with the IS300.

RX and GX are high profit items. They share parts with their car and truck underpinings. And manufacturers have been able to charge more for SUVs, though that is changing as this market fills with competitors. That is why BMW added the X3! Even ES likely decently high per unit profit as it shares its development costs with the huge Camry production run. Per unit costs decline.

Hard to imagine how Toyota/Lexus think they'll make a fortune on next IS300. But they may be looking at getting and holding entry-level buyers. If so, that bodes more for car like IS200 than IS430.

maxhonda99

riez,

Here's a link.

http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/- www/story/01-05-2004/0002083384&EDATE=

rsr742002

Great article on IS.net! A lot of useful info.
Basically, agree, that Lexus screwed up with IS marketing...

Also, as you may well know by now, 3.0 V6 with 245 horsepower will be the next IS engine (it is a standard engine on the new GS). Chances are, it will be detuned to maybe 240 hp. The fact that Lexus abandons inline-6 is a mistake. I will personally hesitate to spend my money on a V6 IS. If I wanted a V6 it would be a 3.5 G35 with better torque and horsepower. But again, we'll see. If it is an AWD and 6-speed equipped...who knows.

wale_bate1

Ditto on most of those thoughts, rsr.

I do think though, if the I6 is gone, there's potentially more reason to look at the next 3-series touring (depending on a number of factors, like if they even make one).

I also like the S4 Avant, though I could live with the 3.0 quattro I think. True, it ain't RWD, but I guess I could make a small sacrifice.

Then again, depending on price and styling, an IS430 convertible might not be too awful!

riez

Check out the IS300 sales data for CY 2003 and Dec 2003.

Total year sales down 33.2%, the worst performance of all Lexus cars! December sales down 34.5% from December '02.

Total Lexus car sales down 15.3% for the CY and down 9.4% in December.

Just for IS300...

CY2002= 20,306
CY2003= 13,559
Sales Decline= 6,747 or 33.2%

12/02= 1,378
12/03= 939
Sales Decline= 439 or 34.5%

riez

Reportedly has a comparison test with IS300 against cars like 325i, G35, etc. So far my March issue subscriptions to Motor Trend and Road & Track have arrived but no C&D. Praying it comes in mail tomorrow!!!

maxhonda99

Got the March 2004 Issue of C&D. The IS300 ranked in 4th place. 1st was the G35, 2nd was the BMW 325i, 3rd was the 2004 TL, 4th was the IS300, 5th was Audi A63.0Q, 6th was Saab 9-3, 7th was the Jaguar X-Type.

The IS300 really looks old next to the others. I was kind of suprised to see it even in 4th place.
It had the worst gas mileage figures and it's acceleration with a 5-speed was only 7.3(maybe 7.4). Even though it had one of the best power to weight ratio's in the test, it was one of this slowest. AT least it's still a great handler.

riez

maxhonda99... What tires did it have? All seasons or summer high performance? Did it have LSD? Can't wait to get the issue.

What were the other performance stats? 1/4 miles? 0-100 mph? Slalom speed? Skidpad g's? Braking? Realized fuel economy?

Don't forget that the 5-speed manual is NOT geared for fuel economy. NOT a deep overdrive. Reduces fuel economy and increases RPMs at speed but you don't hardly have to downshift to pass.

sct3

The Lexus website is stating there is a one-hour TV program on the IS430. Will be on The Learning Channel at 9pm eastern and pacific on Feb 3, 2004.
Wanted to let everyone know.

maxhonda99

riez,

I know it had the Bridgestone RE040s, which I believe are the summer tires.

I believe skidpad g's were 0.88g and the lane change(similar to slalom?) was 64.something. Which was the highest of the group tested. realized fuel economy was 16.

All the other figures I do not know off-hand, but I will post them tonight after I get home from the Job.

fredmcmurray

Here's a little blurb on the show tonight:

http://tlc.discovery.com/fansites/rides/episode/episode_05.html

nyccarguy

I missed it! Maybe they'll show it on re-runs. I had to get my 24 fix tonight.

pat

It repeats at midnight EST tonight.

riez

Saw only the 2nd half. Seemed more about Millen, his son, and their companies than about the IS430. One moderately lengthy segment was on their DARPA-related research into unmanned combat vehicles. Showed a lot of footage about the car being painted/polished. Brief discussion and footage at SEMA show. The last few minutes had some track time footage. They reported that the IS300 manual went 0-60 mph in 6.8 seconds and their IS430 did it in about 4.8 seconds.

riez

Finally got my issue in the mail. Great story. Interesting results.

As-tested MSRP was lowest, at only $31,944 (from $29,980 base). Had optional LSD. Sunroof. Looks like it had heated seats.

IS300 manual rode on Bridgestone Potenza RE040 P215/45ZR-17 tires.

Came in 4th place overall behind $35,595 TL (3rd), $35,540 325i (2nd), and $36,145 G35 (1st), but ahead of $36,495 X-type 3.0 (7th), $34,560 9-3 Arc (6th), and $38,130 A4 3.0 Quattro (5th).

C&D praised its price, engine, handling, steering, controls, LSD, and build quality.

C&D panned its "modest engine power", "soft suspension" and "fly-by-wire throttle is as slow and distant as a ship's telegraph...revving up for a drag-strip launch feels weird and artificial."

Just looking at the RWD cars:

Rolling 5-60 mph: G35 (7.0 secs), IS300 (7.8), 325i (8.0)
0-60 mph: G35 (6.3 secs), 325i (7.0), IS300 (7.3)
0-100 mph: G35 (14.8 secs), IS300 (19.3), 325i (19.4)
0-120 mph: G35 (21.7 secs), IS300 (31.3), 325i (31.3)
1/4 mile: G35 (14.6 secs at 99 mph), 325i (15.4 at 91), IS300 (15.5 at 90)
Top gear 30-50 mph: IS300 (8.6 secs), 325i (8.7), G35 (9.3)
Top gear 50-70 mph: IS300 (8.3 secs), G35 (8.8), 325i (9.1)

Top Speed: G35 (155 mph), IS300 (139), 325i (130)--all governed

70-0 mph braking: G35 (164 ft), IS300 (167), 325i (172)

Skidpad: G35 (.90), 325i (.89), IS300 (.88)

Lane-change mph: IS300 (64.7), 325i (63.4), G35 (63.8)

MPG observed: 325i (19), IS300 (16), G35 (16)

The IS300 only let down by acceleration performance.

IS300 1st in lane change, 3rd in braking, and 4th skidpad.

As R&T points out in their test methodology, many of these performance differences are NOT statistically significant (e.g., 3 ft of braking or .01g). So many of these results are actually statistical ties.

C&D sums up: "delightful welterweight in a middleweight shootout."

xbomber

I'm considering buying a used IS300. I'm looking for a fun to drive sporty ride that can carry my family around for many years. Can any of you IS300 owners think of a better choice for $25,000, or is the IS300 the best? Would you buy yours again?

fredmcmurray

There are so many excellent sports sedans out there, that deciding which is best depends on your personal preferences. The IS300 is the best for me because I love the way it feels, primarily the steering. It involves you in the driving more than any other car I test drove.

You need to test drive one, along with many of the other choices. The G35 is a great car and, if the IS wasn't around, I would probably be happy with that. Despite the fact that I usually dismiss FWD cars, the Saab 9-5 Aero was one of my favoites.
If you decide you like the IS best, I suggest you see if you can stretch a few grand to a new one. Assuming the market hasn't changed since I bought mine, 6 months ago, you can buy a very well appointed one for about $28K.

riez

xbomber... The IS300 provides a ton of car for the money and a ton of smiles per mile driven. Well built car that should last a long time if properly cared for.

I concur with fredmcmurray. Test drive and research. See what works for you.

Do keep in mind that there were a ton of improvements in the 2nd year (MY2002). I'd avoid the MY2001s. For example, the '01s lack the side curtain airbags. They only came with automatic transmissions.

Yes, I'd buy my two IS300s again in a heartbeat. Haven't had any trouble with either.

riez

The IS300 did great where I think it really counted:

"Gotta-have-it-factor", 25 points: 325i (23 points), G35 (23), and IS300 (22).

"Fun to Drive", 25 points: 325i (25 points), G35 (23), and IS300 (22).

"Value", 10 points: IS300 (9 points), 325i (9), G35 (9)

Using just these three factors combined:

$35,540 325i= 57 points
$36,145 G35= 55

$31,944 IS300= 51

$35,395 TL= 48
$38,130 A4 3.0 Quattro= 47
$36,495 X-type 3.0= 41
$34,560 9-3 Arc= 37

inthezone

Hows everyone? Still lovin' my car but ....

Noticed the black adhesive strip on the "original" spoiler was creeping out (just above the IS 300 logo). Went to the dealership for repair under warranty. Another spoiler w/the adhesive was ordered because the adhesive cannot be purchased separately. Yea, I know - crazy huh? The job was sublet to a local body & fender place that Lexus uses on a regular basis. Spoiler looked okay but on the trunk were fine, very precise, very thin long scratches. Scratch pattern appear about 1/4 inch almost along the entire spoiler. Just above the 1/4 inch mark (about 1 inch) the same pattern appears. The color of my car is ThunderCloud Metallic (silvery gray). So its quite noticeable. Told the dealership that I wasn't happy with the workmanship. Car goes back to the body shop for buffing. I pick up the car it looks okay (at that time - depending where the sun is). Next day, I wash & wax then the scratches REAPPEAR. In total, thus far, my car has been there 3 times getting buff trying to resolve this problem. And the adhesive is sliding out again!!

The service consultants cannot or are unable to tell me why the scratches appear on my car or even guess as to how the scratches got on the car in the first place. I have asked many times but I get "skirting" answers.

The application of the spoiler was better than the factory in that when I lift the trunk up to drain any water under the spoiler - there is a small stream of water that comes out in two places.

Current suggested remedy by Lexus dealership is this:
 - Order spoiler no. 3 to take replace the slipping adhesive.

 - send back to Body shop to buff entire trunk BEFORE putting on spoiler no. 3. Little sanding on where the new adhesive will be mounted.

 - MAYBE paint the trunk if the scratches are not removable by buffing.

My question is: WHAT ARE THE PROS & CONS OF PERMANENTLY REMOVING THE SPOILER?

  - as I understand, there are 8 holes drilled into the trunk to secure the spoiler. the adhesive is used to primarily keep the water out (although it is NOT a strip as long as the spoiler. its placed only on certain areas).

  - would plugging the holes & painting over be okay?

  - would it look like there never was a spoiler on the trunk?
 
  - how much do you estimate the cost to be?

  - this may sound silly to you but I really don't know - if any pressure (like washing & waxing) is applied where the holes are plugged - will it crack or break?

  - would it be absurd to ask the dealership to absorb the cost?

I really, really, feel sick, upset, angry over this. Please respond ASAP. I'm scheduled to bring the car in before the end of Feb.

Thank you!!

riez

inthezone... You have me a bit confused. Is the original spoiler an aftermarket spoiler? By that I mean, one not installed by Lexus at the factory at the time of manufacture? Or is the original one factory but the 2nd one isn't?

If the car originally came with a spoiler from the factory, I wouldn't remove it. Though I'm sure you can and someone can properly fill the holes. But you have to find someone who does good work.

Get an estimate first for whatever work you want done.

Isn't the spoiler fiberglass or plastic? It isn't metal. Thinking there might not be anything wrong with it looking a bit different since it is a different material.

You might post pictures so we have a better understanding of what it looks like.

inthezone

Thanks "riez" for responding.

Nothing on my car is "aftermarket". I even have not done any car tinting. My sales guy told me that my warranty may be voided if the electrical on the doors are not working. Lexus would say its the tint person's fault. The Lexus dealership here does not do tinting. In fact, the sales guy would not recommended anyone. I would have to find someone in the private sector. Only the factory UV (I think its UV) tinting is on the windows. Probably wait till after the 3 year warranty expires.

The 1st spoiler is from the factory. I ordered the car brand new & choose several options including the spoiler.

The 2nd spoiler is from the Lexus dealership parts dept. It usually isn't stocked & is backordered. The spoiler comes already painted in my respective car color of ThunderCloud Metallic. The black strip adhesive comes with the spoiler. Neither can be purchased separately. (another dealership way to profit). I've been told by Lexus that the spoiler is plastic.

The 2nd spoiler was mounted because the factory mounted spoiler's adhesive started slipping out. Not a lot (about 1 inch) but I was concerned if I left it alone more would eventually slip out. Thus, if any rust occurred I would be blamed for being negligent.

With respect to the scratches, Lexus dealership told me that its hard to buff right next to the spoiler with the buffing machine. The body shop worried that if they buffed too close in the inside edge of the spoiler that it would take off the paint. (sounds like leaving scratches on a customer's car is a better option).

I will try to take a digital pic. It may be difficult - the scratches are very thin.

In general, do you think a spoiler is NOT a good thing to have?

riez

inthezone... In most cases, unless you regularly drive more than 100 mph, a spoiler doesn't do much. One of the car magazines did some testing on cars a few years ago and discovered that some spoilers actually did "harm" (e.g., they added drag and didn't produce downforce). Thus, the average American driver really doesn't need one. They are there mainly for looks. Nothing wrong with that,

My '04 IS300 manual has a small rear lip spoiler direct from the factory. My wife's '03 IS300 automatic does not. I prefer the way mine looks. I plan on keeping my spoiler.

As I said before, if the spoiler was original factory eqiupment on your IS300, then keep it!

I'm wondering if you aren't a bit too particular about things being absolutely perfect. Not sure the paint on the plastic spoiler will ever look identical to the paint on the metal body. And if you wash/wax your car, abrasions likely will show up differently on the two different surface types. Just physics/chemistry. Plastic reacts differently than metal.

I'd suggest focusing on enjoying the car, the way it performs. When I'm sitting in my driver's seat, I can't see my spoiler and certainly couldn't see any surface irregularity issues. Doubt anyone I drive by could either. Why worry too much? You'll take all the fun out of owning the car.