By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our
Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our
Visitor Agreement.
Comments
The IS's are scarce here, you see more of the LX470, GS300/400 and ES300 where I am at in terms of Lexus vehicles.
today i am very happy with my Lexus GS400 and this is the best car the i never had. When a Lexus is better than a Mercedes or BMW, the prestige is not very important. Any way Lexus in germany has lot of prestige. Hans Hausermann.
today i am very happy with my Lexus GS400 and this is the best car the i never had. When a Lexus is better than a Mercedes or BMW, the prestige is not very important. Any way Lexus in germany has lot of prestige. Hans Hausermann.
Also, has anyone seen one with the 16" wheels? Living in the snow belt, I'm concerned about traction. I wouldn't want to destroy a new car!
Lexus's brand image is remarkable given their short history. Pretige comes with time and Lexus, because they are building such nice cars, with continue to enhance their image and will be inching closer and closer to the MSRP of the germans. Look at the MSRP of the LS400 when it first came out ($35000) and look at the MSRP of the 2001 LS430 (~$54000). Don't forget that MB's used to be prohibitively expensive but competition from BMW and Lexus forced MB to lower their prices.
The IS300 while it looks like a very nice performance sedan doesn't seem to have the pretige, unlike the LS400/430. I think that has to do with the design (both exterior and interior). It looks like a Toyota...not a luxury brand.
Keep in mind also that Audi A6 shares its platform with the VW Passat, which competes directly with the Camry. Does this make the A6 an inferior car?
Like it or not, platform sharing is the future of automobile manufacturing & marketing. Given the extremely high (& rising)cost of bringing new cars to market, platform sharing is the only way to develop new models that are both interesting & affordable. In 10 years, any car manufacturer who has not adopted this practice will be on the road to bankruptcy.
I'll tell you why? Bias. In this world people hate change and German cars are what they were brought up with so that's what they're use too. German cars remind me of Troy Aikman the quarterback of the Dallas Cowboys when they use to say he was the best in the league. No matter how bad he sucks, no matter what he does, they still make excuses for him to keep him on top.
Prime example, when you think of luxury, any idiot should think of Lexus. Look at the S Class Benz. Where do you think they got their digital instrumentation idea from? Where do you think they got the amount and grade of wood placed throughout the vehicle? But why do I say bias? Look at Edmunds review. In a luxury sedan the only knock they could come up with is that the car is so serene that the driver could become bored. It's a luxury sedan for god's sake!!!! That's what you should be looking for. A quiet, smooth ride. The BMW nor the MB have as good of a ride and cost at least $37K more but still they rank the BMW and the MB ahead of the Lexus. The same type of perception bias is evident even in the clothing forum. Are Tommy Hilfiger jeans $25 better than Levi's? Hell no. Denim is Denim.
The question each person has to ask themselves is am I a fool who can be manipulated by the Media? Or can I think for myself?
US site:
http://www.highwaysafety.org/
Some selected categories:
http://www.highwaysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/luxury/crash_lux.htm
http://www.highwaysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/mid_lux/summary.htm
http://www.highwaysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/mid_mod/summary.htm
http://www.highwaysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/mid_suvs/mid_suv.htm
UK site (you can find specific categories and European cars + a few Japanese cars):
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/khyron/crashtest_new/camry.html
When Toyota & Nissan saw how successful Honda's "separate division" strategy was, they followed suit with their own separate luxury divisions: Lexus & Infiniti. Infiniti hasn't been the success that Nissan had hoped for, but Lexus has done exceedingly well - partly because of the high quality of Lexus automobiles but also because of German price-gouging. (While traveling in Germany in the 1980s, I noticed that a Mercedes-Benz that might sell for $30K in the U.S. sold for the equivalent of $17K at a Frankfurt dealership.) Acura, Lexus &, to a lesser extent, Infiniti succeeded because Americans were tired of overpaying for German cars.
Toyota created the Lexus division solely for the purpose of selling upmarket cars in North America. Most of the Lexus offerings are sold as Toyotas elsewhere in the world. Anyone remotely knowledgable about cars knows this. I've known this since Toyota set up the Lexus division. Most of the people who post to the Edmund board know this. This is not a secret. Why, then, are you acting as if it is? You seem to think that you've discovered something that none of us knew before you came along. I'm sorry to disappoint you, but we've known this for a long, long time &, more to the point, we just don't care. We look for the best product at a given price point that satisfies our requirements & we buy it.
Finally, you can't say, as you did in your post #295 above, that "there's no debate" (your words) that European cars are safer & then say in the next sentence that this is your "perception & opinion" (your words again). You are contradicting yourself. If the purported superiority of European cars is based only on your opinion & not on hard fact, then it is most certainly open to debate. You can't have it both ways.
You see in the year 2000 everything is perception. People will pay ridiculous amounts of money on everything from Gym shoes to jewelry just to say I have the higher priced item. Higher price doesn't mean better. Prime example, on a smaller scale, Michael Jordan shoes at $175.00 versus a pair of Reeboks at $89.99. People will buy the Jordan's because of the name and people know how much they cost so it gives you some instant status and the perception that if you can spend that kind of money on gym shoes you must have money. But are the Jordan's an $85.00 better shoe? Hell no! But people will buy them. If I told you the Jordan's were a $85.00 better pair of shoes would you believe me? NO!!! You'd ask what makes me an expert? So why in the hell would anybody believe what the German car company backers say? What makes them an expert on what rides, handles and feels good to me when I'm behind the wheel?
As far as safety is concerned, from what I saw, your safety argument was moot. The 3 series wasn't very good when it came to safety but still you're looking at $42K. The 5 series was not that much better than the GS except for 1 or 2 areas.
Like I said before, don't believe everything you read. Obviously you heard somewhere about how much safer the German cars were and starting quoting that as fact. Don't do it!
As for the ongoing GERMAN debate: I like German cars. The ONLY problem I have with Mercedes and BMW is that, 1) I can't afford one and 2) I believe some of that high price is just to pay for the name. So, I bought an IS300. I feel it's a better value than a BMW in the same class...and I'm happy.
Does anyone have any accurate confirmation as to when the 2002 model IS300 will be released? I have heard that it will have a more practical armrest. I am so accustomed to driving an automatic with a larger armrest that - I won't even bother buy a car without one, because I will not acclimate well to the loss of one.
I came very close to buying a loaded IS300 for $31.5k a couple of weeks ago, but I had to convince myself to abstain from the purchase and obtain as much info regarding the 2002 model so that I don't loose out on a feature that I deem important.
Again, if anyone has information regarding the 2002 IS300 could you post this data if not of to much inconvenience.
Regards,
In terms of overall quality - Lexus has already more than established thier forte in developing automobiles with spectactular mechanical reliability that will far exceed other vehicles on the market of today, yesteryear and tomorrow.
To address the issue of which manufacture develops more performance oriented cars - I think its safe to say that BMW takes the cake on this one when compared to Lexus - considering that performance orientation has been BMW's main forte for years; but that's as far as BMW really goes; with the exception of the 7 series whom very few can afford to lease/buy new.
BMW's long term reliability performance is simply mediocore, when compared to Lexus or other mid to high end Japanese made cars for that matter.
In terms of which is more luxurious, ahh... that's very subjective therefore I will not address that issue.
Many of the arguments about Lexus & BMW are subjective with the exception of performance orientation and Long-Term Reliability Performance.
Regards,
I believe the REAL reason that Honda / Toyota / Nissan formed new high-end car companies was to avoid the stupid import car restrictions for each maker. By starting a new brand, they were able to bring in the high end cars they were already selling in Japan without cutting the quantities of the lower priced cars that were now selling well.
Honda was the 1st Japanese car company to split out luxury sales & marketing in North America, & it did so to avoid trying to sell Civics & Legends under the same roof. This isn't as radical as it sounds; GM separated Chevy & Cadillac sales back in the 1930s.
I have seen a lot of questions about paint and interior care, but no replies. If I may, I am a car fanatic for 40 years and can offer this advice:
PAINT AND TRIM - The Zaino products are the best there is. It is a polymer, and protects and lasts much better than wax, and it is much easier to use. A kit is expensive, but lasts a looooong time. Go to www.zainobros.com for the scoop, and see the VERY active Zaino forum here for advice and user information. For Black - it is AWESOME.
Also - you should definitely "clay" your car before polishing - go to www.erazer.com for the story. There are several good clays, and you will be glad you did.
IMPORTANT - If you really care about the finish, DO NOT let the dealer wash and detail your car before you get it. This is where most of the scratches and swirls in a car finish get started.
INTERIOR - Try to get some Scotchguard for the rugs and fabric while it is still available, it will prevent staining and marks. For the leather use Lexol twice a year, rub it in with your hands for best results. For vinyl, plastic, chrome, wood and the leather (between Lexol treatments) use Lemon Pledge (no joke) - it is great and will not build up.
WASHING - DO NOT USE SOAP OR DETERGENT at any time , except to take off wax before re-waxing. If you use Zaino, use the Zaino car wash. If not, use something like Turtle Wax Zip Wax, or Meguiar's. Be sure to use a really soft item to wash it with, and only 100% American Cottn towels to dry it- others will cause tiny scratches.
Have fun and enjoy your new Lexus!
Although it may be difficult, it is really important to properly break in a new car - under 4000 rpm and light acceleration for the first 1000-1500 miles - no matter WHAT the dealer tells you. I didn't do this a couple of cars ago, and got REALLY poor gas mileage for the 3 years I had it. You can bet the next ones were really carefully broken in, and gave great gas mileage.
You should make at least the EPA mileage for the car, if you drive normally. If not, check with your dealer - maybe there is some tuning needed.
Manual: 18 mpg city / 25 mpg highway
However, the IS 300 Burns
Automatic: 18 mpg city / 23 mpg highway
Why is that?
The Big 3 claimed that they couldn't compete with the Japaneese, they needed a level playing field. So, they kinda got it and produced such stellar vehiclse such as X-cars, J-cars and K-cars.
It is a rather sad reminder of the "quality" of domestic vehicle offerings in the 80's.
The real losers in that game were the consumers, of course.
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)