Older Acura TLs

jdone1

The is one more thing the tl comes with that the accord doesn't-an Acura dealer. My Acura dealer bends over backward to make sure I am happy. The local Honda dealers have so much business they don't have to.

s852

Many Honda dealers have great service. I haven't experienced or even read reports of Honda owners complaining that their service department was bad.
There are some perks you can expect from the dealer for the extra money you pay for an Acura though. Still might be better off waiting to see the '04 TL if you want those perks instead of buying an '03 TL at this late date.
The savings from an Accord will pay for alot of car washes, cafe lattes and rental cars that might be free at the Acura dealer.

junebug56

I am dead tired from test driving all these cars today, but I told you I would post my opinions, so here goes. I test drove the 03TL & 03TLS. I loved the suspension on the type S, but I found the seats and headrest very uncomfortable. The engine had a 'rumble', like a 'hot rod' car, but that would do more for a guy, my late husband would have loved it! I did love the 260 hp. I am a 'gearhead gal' and I like the power and quickness it had. But, I really preferred the 'Premium TL'. I had great pick-up and the stereo is great!! I also liked the was the armrest was adjustable, and the fact it has two different sizes of cupholders. The next car I drove was an 03 Accord. The 240 hp was awesome, but the dash was light almost too digital and bright, and I usually like things like that. The seats were not nearly as comfortable, I drove the 6 cyl, with leather and Nav. The sales person couldn't get the system to work--not a big thing, I wouldn't get that option anyhow. The interior looked like it was made more for the younger generation. I looked cheaper than the TL, but then, it is!! I did like the HP though. My next car was an 03 Camry SE. I wanted to drive the new engine, in V-6 but this dealer hasn't received them as of today. He wasn't sure when they were scheduled to be there at that dealership. The Camry had excellent vision all around, and the pick-up was great. The SE I drove had a V-6, 192 hp. It had very comfortable leather seats, and the truck was very good. The seats fold down so you can carry quite a bit in the trunk. I didn't like the stereo. The TL's was much better. I was really surprised the pick-up was so good. For 192 HP, I was pleasantly impressed. The Camry also had more headroom than the Acura's or the Accords. My last test drive was an 03 Maxima GLE. It has 255 HP. Lots of spunk, but the seats were not as comfy as the regular TL and the Camry. Also, the steering wheel didn't tilt like I like. You have to be comfy when you drive!! It was a nice ride, but not me. I really have narrowed the field to two--the 03 TL & the 03 Camry. I know the Camry would be cheaper to own and operate, but the stereo is not near as good, it didn't get the stations in too clear. I did like the headroom it had and it seem very roomy. Plus I know the insurance is less, I've checked with Nationwide-the Toyotas have a high rating for safety in crashes. They are very well built. The dealer thought I could easily get 200,000 miles out of the car. I loved the TL's luxury feel, and it is quieter than the Camry on the inside. So you can hear the great stereo better. The TL had great cupholders, I can't remember if the Camry had the ones that flip--I have that kind on my 98 Avalon, and I spill drinks all the time. The TL has rear air and controls on the steering wheel. it also has a 'real' horn, my Toyota has a weanie horn:(. That is my findings--a little closer, but not quite a sealed deal on either car. Oh yea, the sticker price is $30417, and the dealer would let me have it for $27200. Does this sound good??
I have a 98 Avalon with 69300 miles. What would be a good price for a trade in value on it?? Also, I drove all these cars in the pouring down rain, I'm in Jacksonville, FL and went over the Dames Point Bridge, a very high suspension bridge., in the high winds. We had Tornado warnings here today--so what a great day to test drive these cars. The all did great in the rain and wind. I was surprised. Well, that's my findings- sorry so long, hope this helps out someone.

dulnev

"I know the Camry would be cheaper to own and operate"

That couldn't possibly be true, given the numbers that you have quoted. TL now sells for no more than $200 over invoice, making it $27,100, which is cheaper than what the dealer quoted you on Camry. TL also has a significantly longer warranty and an extremelly high resale value. The only thing that would be cheaper for Camry is insurance, but we're talking maybe a $50-100 a year difference.

s852

The Camry is really boring, but it can also be heavily discounted. There is no reason to pay more for a Camry than a TL or even close to the same amount after discounting. If the price is about the same as a TL, the the TL would be a better bet for most.
Insurance on the Camry could be alot cheaper than just $50-100 per year difference, depending on where you are. You need to check with your agent.
The Acura warranty is not significantly longer since the Toyota actually has a longer powertrain warranty.
The Camry should get better gas mileage, on regular gas and need less maintenance due to the newer design.

junebug56

Well. I picked up an 03 TL tonight for a drive overnight. It drove beautifully, but in the back of mind, all I can think about is how many people have had trouble with the transmissions. However; I have yet to run into anyone I know who has had trouble with theirs. I love all the features in the car!! It is truly 'decked out'!! But I don't know if I can let myself enjoy it all, knowing the transmission may have trouble at any time. Well, I give it back tomorrow, then I'll 'sleep on it' a couple of days. I will keep in touch!
Happy Motoring!

dulnev

I've seen severa posts of people (or maybe it's the same person) stating that they have no confidence in Acura's claim that the transmission problem has been resolved in vehicles produced after May of 2002. My question to you is this: have you seen a single report of a transmission failure on an Acura manufactured after that date? There should now be plenty of Acuras manufactured after May 2002 with 10-20K miles on them; my understanding is that transmission failures began in that mileage range and above.

Why would Acura risk a huge public scandal by lying that they have fixed the problem??? It's one thing to have a design defect that you discover and address; yes, it can be embarassing, but it can't always be avoided. But no sane management of a reputable company will instruct their PR people to lie about addressing the well publicized defect, when in fact they didn't. You know that those LA Times reporters are still out for blood and will follow up on the problem.

fredvh

To answer your first question, the answer is "no". BUT, there have been posts on Edmunds' forum of owners having trouble with their "replacement" transmissions. Now if Honda/Acura has fixed the problem why are some of the replacement transmission having problems? Why cannot Acura/Honda advise us exactly what the problem was(e.g. what part was bad, etc.) and EXACTLY how the problem was fixed? There is no doubt that Acura/Honda are losing sales because of this transmission issue. People have said so on these forums. I like the TL and it is on my short list but I am still very cautious about spending 28K and having to worry about the trans going out. I know there are no absolutes with any vehicle but I still want a vehicle to be dependable and worry-free.

kyfdx

Don't take this the wrong way, but if you've ever owned a Honda product, the last thing you would worry about is their product, or if they will stand behind it. My wife drives a 2001 accord 4 cylinder. Transmission went bad, had it replaced under warranty... It now has a 7 yr/100000 mile warranty on the transmission. Have you heard about transmission problems for the 4 cylinders? Neither have I. Do I think Honda is hiding something? No, my car is fixed and they took care of it. I may have a little better perspective on Honda because currently we have our 6th and 7th Hondas in the garage.
 Another point: lots of posts about horror stories when your transmission fails. But, the typical scenario: "I have a little thrumming sound coming from the engine. Okay, we'll check it out. You need a new transmission, here's a car to drive till we get it fixed."
  If you really are worried about the Acura TL, then don't buy it. Its probably the best car out there for the money, but if you will always be thinking about it, will it be worth the stress?
  Honda products deliver the best car owning experience there is. I've owned lots of other european and japanese imports, although no domestics since 1982. Are there other cars I'd like to own besided Hondas? Lots of them, and maybe I will.. Would I recommend anything other than a Honda product to someone else? Its a real short list.
  Sorry for the long post.. I read, and I read, and I read... sometimes I just have to let it out...LOL

Walt

bear2day

If it is all ready in your mind that your going to have a problem, IT WILL HAPPEN. Every time the car does something strange, your going to think, was that the transmission! So save your self an ulcer, Don`t do it. No matter what anyone says, It still in your mind. I love my TLs, it is like a family member to me.

GOOD LUCK SHOPPING AROUND!

Bear2Day

akal50

For every TL owner who's had transmission problems, there are plenty of others who haven't. But now everyone is spooked. Just look at the message boards. There are plenty of messages that say "I heard a strange sound from my TL. Does that mean I have a bad transmission?"

If you're not sure about the car, then don't get it. Even if nothing goes wrong, you'll never be able to enjoy it if you're constantly wondering about every little sound or hiccup. That's why I refuse to get a 2003 TL. Even if Acura comes out and says they fixed it, I would always have doubts and that would just make the car less fun to have.

dulnev

"Why cannot Acura/Honda advise us exactly what the problem was(e.g. what part was bad, etc.) and EXACTLY how the problem was fixed?"

I'm sorry, but I don't find this to be a reasonable request. Just like 99.99% of US population, I don't know how a transmission works or what it consist of. So what good would it do for Acura to come out and say something like: "We discovered that cog number 2517 that is part of the assembly 1112 was designed to withstand 150 psi of pressure whereas the actual pressure peaks at 160psi". Would a statement like that make you all warm and fuzzy and believe Acura's statement that they addressed the problem? Personally, I trust Acura enough to take them on they word that they did; I don't need additional details to believe them.

junebug56

Thanks to you all for all the feedback. I am currently test driving an 03 TL-white/parchment interior. I have had it since Monday night. It checked and it was manufactured Feb 03. I think I will be fine if it all works out. I LOVE the car and the way it drives. If it doesn't, I will get a Camry or Accord. I will be driving this car by myself to see my sons in college. One will be in Miami or Orlando, and the other in North or South Carolina. I am a widow, and that's why I want to make sure my car will run great. I've never had any trouble with my 98 Avalon--I just want a new car with the good warranty. Thanks for the post!

akal50

dulnev, your argument makes no sense to me. You're saying that a person doesn't need to know something if they're incapable of understanding it. Apply that logic to a doctor and his patient. If the doctor thinks the patient won't understand the cause of his illness, then are you saying he shouldn't bother telling him?

The issue here is no longer what the exact problem is with the transmission. The issue is Acura's treatment of its customers. If there is a problem and Acura knows the exact cause, then the customers have a right to know what that is. Whether those customers can understand it shouldn't matter. You may trust Acura but a lot of people no longer do. If they reveal the specific cause of the problem, then that'll earn back the trust of some of those customers. They can take comfort in knowing that Acura was willing to come clean and share the details with its customers. Hiding information from customers only causes them to be suspicious of you. So even if you know what the problem is and have fixed it, your customers might not believe you because you didn't bother to let them in on the details. Imagine if Ford didn't bother telling people that Firestone tires were blowing up. They just said, "We found the problem and fixed it." Do you think Ford customers would be happy with that?

duval1

Have 03 TL Type-S had it over a month now. Great car! Anyone put in K&N air filter in type-S and notice any improvement over stock?

kyfdx

One more piece of advice:

BUY THE ACURA TL!!!!

Its a great car, and you love it. Forget everything else.

bsk181

i have a k/n in my 01 cl-s sounds good, better mpg, gains ?

i also have a new 03 tl

both cars are great and acura service is BEST

billyperks

We are in the same boat, I have my 03 TLS over a month too.

Quick question- how are you doing on the gas mileage?

From my calculation, I think I am getting 15MPG on the highway.

junebug56

I gave back the 03 TL to the dealer today. I am just not comfortable with the trannie issue. I think it would always be in the back of my mind. I'll keep looking!! Thanks for all the input. You need to have a peace about whatever you are driving. I'll keep you posted.

golfgod2

I've had my TLS for almost 2 years now, drive it hard and have never had a problem w/ the transmission. Acura service has been excellent and they have bent over backwards to make sure I'm satisfied. Don't worry and enjoy it!!

bear2day

Junebug56, You did the right thing, you have to feel confident in the car you own. Good Luck!
 Billy perks, Shift it out of second gear. How are you driving it to get 15 Mpg? What type of gas are you using? My 03 TLS gets 21 in town and 28 on highway, with a lead foot.
 Duval1, K&N #33-2178, I`ll let you know next week about the difference. I verified with the dealership about installing one, they said it would not void the warranty.

fredvh

Besides the trans issue, how did you like the TL? How does it compare to the Accord and the Camry in your opinion? These three are all on my short list.
     Did you express your transmission worries to the salesman that you were dealing with and what did he say?

junebug56

I LOVED the drive and the feel of the TL. It's truly ashame I can't get past the trannie issue. I really liked the Camry. It had a LOT of spunk, I drove the one with 192 hp--the new engine cars hadn't reached their dealership as of yesterday. The Camry has a 'boxier' feel, and the stereo isn't as good as the TL's. I do like the fact the seats lie flat in the Accord and Camry. The Camry and Accord should really not be put together in the same league as the TL. The TL is just more luxurious driving. The TL has lots of features and is
a fun car to drive. I liked the Accord, the 240 hp is awesome!! it is very futuristic. It's got a lot of neat things in it--there are good cupholders everywhere. It's a good ride. I would probably go with the Camry, because they are soooo dependable! I love my Avalon, but just want a new car. Happy Motoring!!

duval1

I'm getting 26 + on the highway hard to keep foot off the go pedal especially to pass! I'M not worried about transmission problems.

junebug56

I did express my concern to the salesman. He has had the service mgr, and new car sales mgr both phone me. The service mgr said it was only the 99 & 00's-and an extended warranty is given on all TL's through the 03's. He said it's a simple fix, a couple of bolts and pop a new one in. He said his wife has an 03 with 16000 mile and no troubles. He said they are great cars and I would probably never have a problem.

billyperks

You are a funny guy.
I drive hard, but for some reason the car is eating gas rapidly.When I say hard I don't take it to the extreme been that it is a new car with only 1500 miles.
I am saying, maybe the engine is still breaking in, could that cause the rapid gas depletion?

akal50

junebug56, you made the right decision. Even if you got a TL and nothing bad ever happened, you'd never be able to enjoy it fully. And if you know you won't enjoy the car, then why get it?

I was wondering if you could go into more detail about the TL vs. the Accord. I drove the 2003 TL base model and loved it. I am also considering the Accord EXV6 Sedan. I haven't driven it but I hear a lot of people that it's just like the current TL. People it's just as smooth, quiet, and fun to drive. If you had to compare, what are the pluses and minuses of each?

hclll

I am now deciding between TL and S60 2.4T. With current heavy discounts, they are in the same price range. It is smaller than TL, not as smooth, and has no Xenon lights. But the interior comfort and safety features are second to none. Beautiful coupe look is another plus.
Performance wise, S60 does better than its spec tells. it accelerates faster than TL, but maybe a bit slower than Type-s.

Above all, No Tranny Issue!

junebug56

When I drove the TL, I felt like I was driving a foreign Cadillac. It has great acceleration, yet a luxurious feel. The car was laid out so well--it was sleek and functional. The dash wasn't cluttered. The armrest moved into a couple of positions, so it is always comfortable. After driving it for two days, I found it really 'grows on you'. The headroom is a lot less than my Avalon--about 3 inches. I'm only 5' tall, but I noticed the difference in the headroom immediately. The seats are extremely comfortable. The leather in the TL is a better quality than the Accord, an Acura salesman told me this--but I really could see and feel the difference. The steering has a super solid feel about it. It's steady and precise, very nimble. The suspension is great and the manuverability is great. It had a great turning radius. The car is super quiet. My Avalon is super quiet also, I like this so I can hear the great stereo!! The Bose system is great!! I really enjoyed that!! My late husbands Caddy had a Bose system--they are great. Every radio station I listen to sounded fantastic!! I truly loved that feature when I drove the car this week. The heated seats work wonderfully. They warmed up in no time and really were the perfect temperature. There is a high and low, and even in Florida, the mornings are a bit chilly sometimes. Great feature for someone with a bad back. The Accord was a fun and awesome ride. The 240 hp is quick and snappy and the car is very responsive. The EXV6 I drove had a weird color combo inside--Black and Gray--I really like tan for an interior. The car had about 8 cupholders, all placed where you could really use them. The stereo was good, but not the Bose. It did really get in the stations clear--a little less quality sound than the TL's Bose-but not a smuck system either. The car had super acceleration. When I drove it, I didn't feel the 'luxury' as the TL has, but I felt like it had real'sportster'ride. The car had great passing ability and was also very solid. I drove it in a HUGE rainstorm, with lots of wind, tornado warnings that day, and it held the road great, as did the TL. The car was quiet inside, not quite as quiet as the TL, but still very good by my standards. The controls on the steering wheel are probably my favorite. They are placed in the steering wheel, flush with it, and are in the best of positions. I liked them better than the TL's. The car was not quite as comfortable as the TL, the seats are good, but the leather is not as good a quality and the seat is not as 'cushy'. The TL was definitley more comfy--The TL would make a great long distance trip car, if you can get over the trannie issue. I think the TL is a made, more comfy car, with lots of great features. The Accord is a great car with lots of features also, but the one I drove was only $1000.00 less than the TL. There was no comparision, but the trannie issue is still there. Hope this helps--let me know what your thoughts are when you drive the Accord. I have also heard the Accords are less expensive to work on. Also, the TL takes premium gas, the Accord takes regular--a major diffence in these uncertain times. Keep us posted on the comps you find.

junebug56

No I haven't thanks for the tip--I will add it to my list!!

mjc440

Junebug56 -

I think the S60 is a great-looking car & is very safe, but if you're extremely concerned about reliability, then I'd do some research on Volvo's reliability. Acuras almost always get higher ratings for reliability than Volvos (in Consumers Reports). If you're looking for a more reliable car than the super-reliable Acura / Honda, then Toyota / Lexus / Infiniti are probably you're choices. Maybe try the Lexus ES300 or Infiniti I35 or G35...

Also when you load up the S60 to match the TL, the S60 will cost you more. The TL is a great bargain. I can't wait to see the re-designed '04 TL.

Just my suggestions...

fredvh

Thanks for all the great information. Did the service manager say that if you bought a new 2003 TL that you would get the extended(100,000 mile) warranty?

junebug56

No he didn't. I wondered also.

akal50

junebug56, thanks for the info. I still have another 4 months on my lease so I'll wait until I start shopping before I test-drive the Accord. I think my decision will come down to two things. Fun factor and money. There's only so much per month I'm willing to spend. The TL is a great value but it also costs more per month than the Accord and that's not even counting the higher insurance and fuel costs. So if the Accord really is more fun to drive than the TL, then I'll probably opt for the Accord. Which do you think is more fun?

junebug56

The Accord was much more sporty a drive! The extra horses were really fun. I have the brochure form Honda and it states the V6 uses regular gas. I think the Accord would be a great value--but ask if it has the same transmission as the TL. That I'm not sure about. Keep us posted!!

akal50

From what I've heard, the TL transmission problems happen on the Type-S. I don't know if it happens on the base model. But either way, it's scared me away from the current TL. I really hope the new Accord does not have the same transmission. That would ruin everything.

ant_live01

For the past two weeks I have been trying to decide on what are the best tires for my TL 2001. Some of you have posted your recommendations but not alot. I'm currently looking at the Bridgestone Turanza LS-V. Do anyone have any experience with these tires? Tirerack's warranty rating is 4 1/2 stars.

junebug56

Good luck--I'm checking on the Accord website about the trannie--I'll keep you posted!

akal50

It just doesn't make sense that they'd use the same transmission on the Accord. They've known about this problem for several years now. So why would they use a component they know is defective on a brand new design when they had such advance notice? What's more credible is that they chose not to fix the problem on the current TL cause they figured it would be too expensive. Rather they applied what they learned to the new TL and Accord. At least I hope.

dulnev

I replaced the crappy stock Michelins on my 2000 TL with Dunlops. I don't remember the exact model but it was something like A2 Sport. If you go to tirerack.com and enter the TL's tire size, I think that's the only Dunlop that comes up. These tires have a slightly lower speed rating than stock, but they have sportier handling and much better traction in wet and snow. Not to mention that they are expected to last beyond the 20K that my stock Michelins lasted. There was still plenty of tread on them, but they would slip and slide horribly in wet weather.

hunter001

FYI...I think it is against the rules of Townhall to cross-post in multiple threads.

Later...AH

junebug56

Thanks-I didn't realize that. I deleted one of the messages.

accord_tl

Just took advantage of a 1 week Acura lease window to get a 2003 TL Premium. Turned in a leased 2000 and experienced no transmission or other mechanical issues with that car.

I think Acura will continue to respond to the transmission concerns and end of model change over with aggressive lease offers. A really good lease beats buying for my money, even it there are no suspect mechanical issues like the transmission.

My wife drives the TL and missed her 1997 Avalon for a time after she started driving the 2000 TL. We were only a mile or so into the drive home with the new TL when she remarked how quiet the 2003 is compared with the 2000.

I drive a 2002 Accord Ex also leased near the model change over. We sat in the 03 Accord in the show room and both believe the TL seems roomier. Oddly, the 2002 Accord even feels larger so maybe it is the higher cowl line for the 2003.

Anyway, it took a four year lease to get the same payment as a 39 month TL lease, and the Accord warrentee is only 36 months. That decision was not much trouble.

I recently read a little in this group to see what was going on. For those hanging back on a 2003 TL, I suggest shopping Honda Motor Credit leases as they could get even better as the year unfolds. Of course, they may not either, which is why we went ahead now.

If you have to own, a 2.9% interest offer is open through March, and at that rate extended warrentees become affordable. Especially so if they also discount the car which they will likely do since the market is soft anyway. The 2003s may already have a 100K warrentee on the transmissions, I did not even ask.

If you truly like the TL as we do, it seems you should be able to find a comfortable finance/protection package. Honda doesn't sell the only transmissions that will fail over the next five years. Since they seem to be getting all this attention though, we thought it might work as an advantage. Honda "knows" they have an issue and will step up, in my opinion, by pricing it in. My guess is they will find a lot of takers -- the 03 TL is a very solid car. Just my $.02.

pat

per se isn't really against the rules, no. Sometimes a message is relevant in two different discussion.

Posting the same message over and over again in a number of discussions (more than two, for example) would be considered spamming, and therefore inappropriate, but if I recall correctly, junebug posted a message here and in the Accord discussion that was relevant in both discussions and *I* don't have a problem with that.

Obviously, this is way off-topic -- any questions, just drop me an email.

Thanks.

bitnoj1

Anyone see the 2004 tl at recent auto shows (Chicago, Detroit)? If so what can we expect? I'm hearing due date in Sept. Thanks

bklynguy

04 tl hasn't shown itself yet, perhaps next month at the New York Auto Show ???

ant_live01

Well I must say that I'm very pleased to have researched for the best tires for my 2001 TL and not just go with the Michellin reprutation. I replaced the OEM tires with Bridgestone Turanza LS V. These tires are excellent! Handling, wet and dry performance is excellent. Noise is low and ride is real smooth. I purchased my tires from TireRack.com. They have the best prices. I took these tires on a fast, hilly, winding, sharp conners, wet road way and they performed at optimum level. I would recommend these tires to all. At this point I don't know how the tread wear is but will keep the board informed.

junebug56

Has anyone had trannie trouble with TL's manufactured after May 2002?? That's suppose to be the month the trouble was fixed, even though they are extending the warranties on all 2003's.
Thanks!!

fredvh

I did not realize that they have extended the warranty on new 2003 TLs. Are you sure about this?

junebug56

Yes, this is what my sales rep and the service manager told me. I spoke to the service mgr this afternoon. He said thery had a lot of 2001's that had to be redone, only a few 2002's and no 2003's-so far. He said his wife has a 2003 with 16000 miles and hasn't had a bit of trouble. I have looked at other cars, but the TL still is the best fit for me--I'm just not sure about the trannie issue. The service mgr said it's a great car and he thinks they had the problem solved with the 2003's. Of course, this is his opinion, but he is the service mgr. I still love the car!!! It's really a beauty!! Everyone thinks I'm being over cautious.