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Comments
Where the heck did you hear that?!
Only the V6/6MT combo will not be avail. t'ill early 2003... But the other coupes will be on dealers lot before the end of the month.
I disagree with your perceptions on this... with cars, for example, while they have a top scorer in each category, they have multiple recommended models, and they frequently say something like "you can't go wrong with one of the models rated excellent" (or very good, or whatever), even when those models have different scores relative to each other. If people have the perception that their top scoring model of anything is the only one to buy, they don't know how to read the articles, because CU gives lots of information on all of the models that they test, and they discuss all of their recommendations and the reasons behind them.
As for having to have a winner, Car and Driver and Road and Track almost always have winners as well, although CD occasionally has ties, but mostly in the lower ranks. Having a winner doesn't mean that they're using sensationalism to sell magazines. Ironically, in a recent discussion of the relative quality of the major car mags, several people dissed Motor Trend for the fact that they frequently DON'T select a winner in their comparison tests.
I feel that they give strong recommendations to their top 3 scoring family cars (Passat, Camry and Accord), as well as other high scoring cars. I interpret their recommendations as saying that I made an excellent choice by selecting an Accord, despite the fact that the Passat scored higher.
In fact, their "Best Buy" designation dispels the assertion that they recommend only the top scorer. They don't usually apply this to big ticket items like cars, but a Best Buy is usually a high scorer, but not a top scorer, that provides a lot of product for the money.
mcgreenx: i wouldn't say their judgments are worthless. CR road tests are very thorough. i prefer CG myself though. it's good to get many points of view.
qgu: have patience and you will see in future comparison tests that the new v6 accord indeed is the faster car. i can't explain motor weeks 8.0 sec clocking though.
dindak: careful with the anti-american remark. i know what you meant though.
The hood is prettey daring with no creases unlike 2002 models. Overall the sheetmetal looks more prestigeous (for the lack of better word) than 2002. The car looks very fast standing still. That was my first reaction. I guess a test ride is on its way...time to trde-in my 2000 Accord SE??
Could someone post some home-made digital pictures of the new Accord? I see that several now have been to the dealerships and have seen and drove it. My closest dealership is 65 miles away. Thanks.
DX, LX, EX refer to the trims of course
L is leather interior
V is V6
M is manual
A is automatic
I guess my dealer will start to use N for navigation system.
IMHO, it makes it easy for the salespeople to walk around the lot and pick out what they want to show and for customers wandering around.
So worst case you will have EXVALN.
EX w/manual or auto transmission
EX-L w/ manual or auto transmission
EX-V6 which includes leather and auto
EX-NAV w/ navigation
I agree with you that most published reports say that the Accord is strong in the areas I found weak; but many magazines with snippets of info on new cars don't seem to be very objective or critical in their assessments.
As for "driving the wrong car," I meant, I wonder if I should have driven a Civic, or if the dealer had a car that would be more to my tastes? I would call myself a driving enthusiast, and I want a car that I personally like to drive and find fun.
Interestingly, CG (yes, take it for what it's worth--a bit of additional comparison) compares Accord steering, handling, quietness and interior controls to Passats and Camrys--indicating that Accord is "getting closer" to those cars but not there yet. Many people in this discussion area have seen, but not yet driven, the new Accord, and they have a positive response to it.
Hey, we all have different tastes; each hopes to find "the" car that is perfect him or her. May we all get that!
My idea of an Accord is more along the size and style of the just unveiled JDM Accord. It's too bad they'll jack up the price by 5-7K and call it an Acura.
I sat in a top-of-the-line model with an MSRP of over $25,000, the only 2003 Accord they had on the lot. The seat felt stiff and unforgiving, not worse than other cars I have tried, better than many, but certainly nothing extraordinary. More to the point, it was less comfortable than my Camry, and much less comfortable than my other car, a 1990 Accord with 120,000 miles on it which drives like new. The rest of the new Accord, though I was so disappointed with the seat I didn't look that hard at it, seemed OK but, again, nothing special.
I guess after 50+ years of driving I should know better than to fall for advertising hype, but I was impressed by the fact that the company actually addressed the seat problems which many people have complained about on various car sites and doubtless in other fora. But they actually did nothing of the sort, to judge by the result. I am reminded of apartment buildings which, years ago, got tired of hearing complaints about noise from one apartment to another and so started advertising extraordinary soundproofing in walls, ceilings, and floors - they didn't change the walls, ceilings, or floors, however, just the advertising.
the bolsters hit in just the right place, and the headrests really surprised me, as they are actually soft and pliable.
if you are extraordinarily thin, then you may not get the benefit of the bolsters, or the cushion in the seats.
keep in mind, your 1990 accord with 120000 miles, also has 120000 miles of butts pressing into the seats. by the way, did you even try the lumbar with your bad back?
Many people have been helpful to me regarding my seat. I thought I owed an obligation to share my experiences about the new Accord. If you read my posting, you will not find the slightest hint of criticism of any poster on this or any other board. After all, seats are perhaps above all other things an individual matter - what is comfortable for one person may be torture for another, even if he isn't strangely shaped or stupid. Unfortunately, there are people on this, and other boards, who make a specialty of being offensive, rather than trying to discuss cars as objectively as possible.
bowke just has this rude habit of not believing people (and making it very obvious), so don't even mind him.
http://www.optp.com/ search for mckenzie. On the recomendation of a physical therapist I bought #701 and couldn't be happier.
Jeff
Impressions:
- Driver's seat felt pretty much the same - not a bad thing, since I like the 2000's driver's seat.
- Definitely quieter. I didn't even realize how much so until I got back into my 2000 after the test drive. Wind noise and expansion joint thump are both improved considerably. Anyone who may have been concerned about the new Accord being noisy can rest easy.
- The ride is improved as well... again, expansion joints are handled much better than the 2000. You still won't mistake it for a Camry... it still feels like an Accord, just a somewhat smoother riding Accord. But the overall feel is still firm, just as I like it.
- Handling... the steering will take a little getting used to... a little less direct feeling at center. Other than that, handling seemed just fine. When I pushed it on curves, it seemed a bit more eager than my 2000.
- The V-6 is a hoot. Low end response is dramatically better than my 2000. And it just flies when you punch it.
- Transmission is MUCH smoother than the 2000. The days of neck-snapping shifts in the Accord are now officially over. At low to moderate acceleration, 2 - 3 shifts and above are so smooth that you can barely feel them. And it firms up just enough on harder acceleration. It kicks down very readily and very smoothly.
- Interior - the new gauges are quite impressive. The radio/HVAC display works well, too. All armrest mounted switches are lit at night. Only disappointment... I wish the controls on the steering wheel were illuminated as well.
With the magnitude of the changes to the interior and exterior styling, and all of the engineering changes, I'm surprised to find that the 2003 still feels very familiar. It's like they took my 2000 and made it faster, quieter, smoother riding and more luxurious. And as I understand it, that's exactly what they did, since the 2003 is still uses a version of the same platform as the 98-02 generation.
Anyway, I'm sold... sometime next year, a 2003 or 2004 EX V6 will be in my garage.
SEV6. For whatever reason, I am very comfortable in the Accord EXV6. What a difference that makes with respect to the driving experience, which for me was just right. I feel like Goldilocks. For better or worse we are all built differently and may have varying subjective views on comfort, but it certainly is maddening when one can't enjoy an otherwise fine car because of the seats. I am sure toyota/camry/passat/etc. engineers do their best to design up to the 95th percentile of their target demographic, but that's of little consequence to those of us who might fall in the 5% group. Good luck, George00, finding one that is "just right". I empathize with the process.
While I understand that pricing is a function of the market you are in, it doesn't seem that these cars are commanding MSRP. I'm in central Pennsylvania. I talked to a dealer yesterday who said I might be able to get a few hundred off MSRP on a silver EX V6 they had just gotten in. This is the same dealer where my wife and I got our 2001 EX V6 Coupe at a very good price. I had to travel about 60 miles on business today, so I stopped in at a smaller volume dealer that I knew had a good reputation for dealing. I was really just looking for a little leverage against my other dealer when I stopped in. Then they offered me a silver EX V6 that would be in stock in a week or so at $1800 off MSRP, and I couldn't resist. I asked them to hold it, pending my wife's concurrence in the deal. When I went back an hour later to ask a few questions, there it was! The car came in about 20 minutes after I left the first time, and somebody else had already tried to buy it (but thankfully it was being held for me.)
I always lease, and there are some incredible lease deals on these cars. Here are my details:
Cap. Cost: $24,375
Term - 42 months
Mileage - 15k/yr
Residual - 61% ($16018.60) (Unbelievable for 42 months at 15k!!!)
Money Factor - .0022 (5.28%)
Up front $ - $1405.90 ($550 Acquisition, $113 Tax Title and License, Cap. Cost Reduction $400, Other Taxes $40.50, First Payment $302; Security Deposit waived because of Honda lease loyalty)
Monthly payment is $302.40, broken down as follows: Monthly Depreciation $189.44, Interest $87.99, Pennsylvania's 9% lease tax $24.97.)
I think this is an absolutely unbelievable deal for a $26k car that came out just a few days ago. I'll pick it up on Friday.
The price is supposed to be $700 over invoice.
I also added some additional residual value info in Post 675 on the 2003 Accord Redesign board. I was adding when you posted 676.
I use a simple formula to approximate the invoice from MSRP. Just divide the MSRP by 1.1, and there you have it. It won't be exact, but close.
So, with MSRP: $25,800, the EXV6 may have an invoice pretty close to $23,400.
strager
I don't think we're talking about the same car.
the accord was "getting closer" to the camry in terms of noise isolation. they also stated the accord has moved further away from the camry and towards the passat in driving dynamics.
Sorry, bowke.
On the caluclation of invoice being around 90% of MSRP, that also sounds like a good estimate, I think of the 10% in between as what the dealer tries to make. In a business, making consistent 10% profit would be awesome, but that kind of profit margins don't exist for too long in competitive markets such as the midsize sedan segment. Glad to see the forces of economics at work here.
I will be very interested to hear other stories as I wait for my 03 EX V-6 to arrive at preset price of $316 over invoice. Out the door for $23,991 in the next three weeks. But I would have been just as happy to walk in and get it for $24,400 and no waiting.
INKY
A local dealer told me there was some color called 'Opal Silver Blue' but I don't see it on the website. Anyone know about this?
For pricing, I will shoot for $24,000 on an EXV6 with an invoice of 23,674 (w/dest). That is a profit of $326 + $696 holdback = ~$1022. Seems fair.
Here is the link.
www.latimes.com/la-hy-acura11sep11.story
They can be bought anywhere from $100 - $900, and they're a lot better deal than what manufacturers charge. These are new technologies, the car manufacturers are making a huge profit, the system is probably worth maybe $400 and they sell them for $2000.
The aftermarket ones have GPS satellite receivers, with downloadable maps installed. They may not have just 1 DVD that covers the entire continent, but you can download different regions as you choose.
I think navigation systems are a ruboff of the Japanese interest in the latest and greatest electronic gizmos. Most of my driving is to places I've been to already or know how to get to, and I'd probably wouldn't want to be distracted to use one while driving. But if you love gadgets and have $2k to spare, go for it!
As for the need, I have been in CA (from Boston) for only 3 years and I always find myself printing out mapquest maps for all sorts of addresses. The unit can bark commands also. I have a friend who says Nav is great. The Accord's unit sounds like the best one yet. I agree $2K is a lot but the Accord is already so (comparitively) cheap anyway.
Jeff
by the way, the Accord fuel ratings look better than most competition in V-6 or I-4 so that should be a plus to many folks.
INKY
"When we replace the engine timing belt we also
recommend replacing the engine drive belts and several seals located behind the timing cover as well. The estimate to complete these repairs is $575 + tax. The service can be completed in one day."
Is this a resonable price?
Do I need the extra stuff done?
Could my local mechanic handle this? (no doubt he would be cheaper)
Thanks for your feedbck.
I'm glad my car doesn't have one.
As for those that don't have timing belts....make certain your guides for the 'chain' are not worn which does occure quite often in higher milage vehicles.....some are actually made of plastic. You can normally tell this is happening with chain chatter "noise". As far as the seals needing replaced behind the timing belt...ask him which ones and why?...I understand the belt, water pump and gaskets for those parts...though I'm not certain of the others he mentioned. PS...one other thing is to make certain you check your CV Boots for tears......if you should ever notice any "clicking noise" when starting from a stop and turning the wheel...it's almost always the cv boot.....hope this helps.....remember...water pump and belt at the same time...it'll save ya a lot of money!
Not sure about Accord V6. But $400 over 70-90K miles isn't a big deal, considering that the car saves you money in other ways.
For example,
Tires will probably last 50K miles, instead of 30-35K miles. Savings of about $500 by the time you're ready to replace timing belt.
A car, delivering 21 mpg will burn 3810 gallons of fuel over 80000 miles. At $1.40/gallon, that comes to about $5300.
Another car, delivering 20 mpg will burn 4000 gallons of fuel over 80000 miles. At same price, you'd be spending $300 more (and $900 more if premium is required).
Originally, I was talking with Bobby Rahal Honda in Mechanicsburg. I live in the middle of the two in State College. When I heard back from Rahal last night, they were ready to move, but not $1,800. I had already bought mine anyway. If you contact Rahal, ask for Brady. He's a nice guy, and he sold me my '01 EX V6 Coupe.
Anyway the reason I was there was because today we FINALLY brought an Odyssey. An EX with Leather and DVD player. We paid MSRP, but they through in mudguards, wheel locks, an "Odyssey" tag for the front and a rubber mat. I think I did pretty good haggling to be only 16. I told him flat out that if he didn't add these options for free, my mother and I would walk out. He quickly got his manager to agree. I was as Cold as can be to that salesmen. I even lied and said I had a similar deal in Easley, South Carolina. He EVEN believed me! I know it's off topic, but I am so excited about the new minivan. It's Sandstone with Beige leather interior.
just kidding...