Older Honda Accords

bodydouble

I, and others, have commented on the comparison to the Maxima. Now, IIRC, the TL is still close to $6k more than the Accord EXV6. I for one would NOT ante up to the TL. What am I getting for the extra $$? Memory seats. What else? On the debit side, the TL has less power, no dual-zone AC, no telescoping steering wheel.

I'm not saying the Accord is cheap in absolute terms. Hell, cars in general are expensive items, be it a Honda or a Hyundai. But we're talking about VALUE which is whole different concept than whether it is cheap or expensive.

As to whether domestics are better VALUE? I dunno. They cost less initially. But whether they are better VALUE, personally I would have to factor in resale, refinement, reliability, quality, etc.

diploid

I think anyone cross shopping an Accord and TL should buy the Accord. I know if I bought a TL now and the redesign came out and it's much improved (read: luxury interior), I'd kick myself.

bodydouble

I think they not only should, but will, buy the Accord. Unless they want the longer (in the US) warranty and the extra Acura prestige (minimal IMO). But the TL currently has the tranny cloud hanging over its head.

talon95

That's so "not even close" it nearly defies description.

ironmanterp

The LA times article about the driver's Acura TL-S slamming into 2nd gear at 80 mph? His updated replacement transmission has a NEW problem and needs replacing after 3 weeks and 500 miles. Copland007 tells about it in the 6th entry dated 9/18.

http://www.acura-cl.com/forums/showthread.php?s=31c04b8eb53a5a41ca8003400631cb39&threadid=78841

I have never seen or heard anything like this. I remember you saying you had a CL, so I thought you might be interested.

yugoboy

I really do feel bad for those honda/acura owner's, this tranny issue is quite a serious problem!!!! I couldn't even imagine cruising at 70mph and then being thrown into 2nd gear!!!!??? Hopefully honda will come to it's senses and issue a recall!!!!!!!

bodydouble

You're right. I do have an '01 CL-S. My wife drives an '02 Accord V6. So double Yikes!

talon95

The link above shows that one owner had the transmission replaced and the replacement made a humming sound. Not great for that owner, but it doesn't really make this Acura transmission issue any worse. Now if that owner had again encountered the problem that Acura claims had been fixed, that would be different. But to this point, there have been no reports of the problem recurring with the updated transmissions.

As for "what does this mean for Accord owners/prospective buyers", first, let's stop lumping the Hondas and Acuras together to such a degree. The Accord has NEVER offered the Acura transmission in question, and even the transmission in the 2003 Accord, although now a 5-speed, is not the same one.

So basically, this Acura situation means absolutely nothing to any Accord owners or prospective owners. While it is a serious problem for Acura owners, let's not make it out to be more than it is. It doesn't cast any shadow on the 2003 Accord introduction.

ral

The Honda website now has the 2003 coupe and all the info, more pictures, video, etc.!!!

inky

After seeing the numbers and using the lease estimator on HOnda web site I am thinking of leasing. My EX V-6 would be about $300 per month on a 42 month, 15k per mile lease. That is great with selling price of $24,000 and $500 cap reduction. Others have posted similiar numbers.
Not bad. High residual and low interest come into play here.
INKY

mike767

Responding to a previous post, I paid 22200 for the EX/A 22860 list. My Dealer is selling them at List. This is the 3rd accord from them and they also gave me a good trade for my Passat. Could I have done better on Price. Yes. My job entails a lot of travel. The main things is support and service. My dealer Friendly in upstate NY is good and they take care of you. The service prices are posted unlike the mystery VW service prices and they are very straight forward.

Hope this post helps.

dindak

For an extra U$2 grand, you bet I would move up to a TL. It's a more luxurious car inside and out. Why not spend a few extra bucks and get something real nice if you are already spending $33K on a car. I would say at the high end of the Accord line, the better value is clearly a TL and it will likely have a better re-sale also since you are concerned about that. Hey it's my opinion.. your idea of value may be different.

As for domestics, I've had 2 in row following 2 Hondas and they have been no better or worse in terms of reliability (all good). In terms of service, the local GM dealer is much better than the local Honda shop. Again, things may differ where you are. I paid thousands after discounts for my Intrigue and it's loaded up, so yes, I EXPECT to receive less in resale. Resale to me is a function of price paid not list. In terms of performance the Intrigue kicks.

Hey value is a relative term open to interpretation. Our options differ, it's a free continent.

:-)

ironmanterp

How long have you noticed your comments and posts being affected? I'm curious, because I posted a response to an observation you made in the Quality Control discussion, then noticed your post was deleted. I thought maybe my response had offended you or something.

Now it looks like talon95 made a response to a post that isn't here anymore - was it yours? If so, please make the moderator aware of your situation!

dindak

I do like the 03 Accord. Like I said the special editions add a lot of value to these cars when they come.

irish24

I have deleted earlier posts. Yesterday is the only time I have found that for whatever reason I was not able to post...it is not coincidence. I called a couple of dealers and found that there are some discounts given....put in a post...and went out for about an hr....when I came back I discovered a msg on my answering machine...from a manager or someone at one of the places I called...informing me that the cars were NOT being discounted...I hadn't left my phone # and was in a different state so I found this interesting...even if they had caller ID...so I deleted THAT post since I wasn't sure it was valid any longer... then when I put in a new post it was impossible to get it on...I was annoyed and was going to get off the chat as once the info is restricted...it means less...but have seen later posts that are also talking about discounts in the 800-1000 range.

Just so you can rest easy and get back to your workouts...I can assure you that your post didn't offend me...altho I'm home for now, I have had several jobs in the past that required pretty thick hides.

maltbie

I leased a 2003 Honda Accord EX-V6 two days ago and have discovered two defects since I acquired the car. One defect is on the right rear door. When shut, the bottom half of the door, closest to the rear tire, is not flush with the car. It sticks out about 1/8 inch. The left rear door is perfectly flush. My dealer could not fix the problem and is sending me to a body shop at an affiliate next week to try to fix it.

The other, more serious, problem is a defective steering wheel/column. It appears that the whole steering column is a few degrees off-kilter. The result is that when holding the wheel at the 3 and 9 o'clock position, the left side of the steering wheel is further out from the dash board than the right side. My dealer acknowledged the problem this morning but said there was nothing they could do. They said they compared it with other 2003 Accords on the lot and that all of the them were the same way.

As you can imagine, I am not happy about this and will be pursuing a resolution to the problem with Honda.

Potential 2003 Accord buyers should be especially vigilant in examining their cars for these and other defects prior to signing any purchase or lease contracts.

bodydouble

I don't want to flog a dead horse and bore other posters but where are you coming up with your numbers? $2K US more for the TL? The base TL in Canada lists for $38K (or is it $38.5K?). Regardless, the '03 Accord EXV6 lists for $32.5K. That's $5,500 - 6,000 more for the TL. You see $6,000 more of value in the TL? Not unless you place a huge premium on the Acura name.

Also, I doubt that the TL, near the end of its life-cycle, would have a better resale value than the '03 Accord.

dindak

Top end Accord goes for U$26K. Base TL goes for just over U$28K. I didn't look at CDN pricing but that said, you can probably deal on a TL today and you would probably pay list on an 03 Accord. I know the local dealer is very sticky on price.

bodydouble

I was just commenting on the prices in Canada. BTW, I hear Acura dealers are still pretty sticky on TL prices. CL's are a different story...

diploid

I don't agree that the TL is the more luxurious car, especially on the inside now that the Accord has been redesigned.

bodydouble

Actually I never thought the TL/CL were ever that luxurious. Too many Accord parts throughout.

diploid

I think that's how they can keep the price much lower than competitor's. The same has been said about Infiniti's G35...the interior isn't as luxurious as, say a Lexus ES300. And Infiniti, unlike Acura, uses real wood trimming. Just goes to show that leather and wood does not make a luxury interior.

bigzheng17

although i see there are a quite big increase, but the peak RPM has been incerased a lot now at 6250rpm, that't pretty close to the 7000 redline there. i don't know about you guys but unless there is an emergency, i don't usually rev my car that high.

also the peak torque hasn't been increased a lot, only 20 lb-ft compare to last year's v6. which makes me wonder how does C&D(or was it somebody else?) got a better 0-60 number than altima, who has 246 lb-ft of torque.

ickes_mobile

I've noticed the wheel on our '01 Accord is angled off center too. If you look carefully, straight ahead is just to the right of the "mph" label on the speedo. I've read similar complaints about CR-Vs. It has something to do with gettng the steering around the transverse engine/transmission. Definately annoying.

Early reports about the new car reported that the wheel was moved 4-degrees closer to center. It sounds like its not completely fixed so I'm anxious to see what it looks like now...

dindak

My buddy bought a TL-S and got about C$2100 off the sticker. Of course that is a high end TL so perhaps you can't get that much off a base car.

yugoboy

Mike Spencer, a spokesman for Acura, Honda's sport-luxury division, confirmed that there has been a "higher than normal incidence" of problems with two Honda-built automatic transmissions. Although many involve high-performance models such as the 260-horsepower Acura Type-S, others afflict 200-horsepower V-6 Honda Accords and 240-horsepower Odyssey minivans not usually associated with racing and speeding abuses.

The two transmissions are the five-speed used in V-6-equipped Acuras since the 2000 model year and in Honda Odysseys since the 2002 model year; and the four-speed automatic used in V-6 Honda Accords since 2000 and in 2000 and 2001 Odysseys.

I grabbed this from the la time's article, just thought you might want to read up on it, accord's and odysseys are being afflicted also!

maltbie

I did not know that the off-center steering wheel problem existed on earlier Hondas. My 98 Accord LX and 2000 EX-V6 did not have the problem. I am interested in hearing from other 2003 Accord owners on whether their steering wheels are angled off-center. If not all 2003 Accords have steering wheels angled off-center, then it could not have been designed that way intentionally. It would have to be the result of a flawed manufacturing process.

ickes_mobile

Your '98 LX should be the same as mine '01 EX. Its not really noticable until you see it and then you can't forget it...

porknbeans

I'm not an owner of one, but I've heard of the offset steering wheel on the CRV. I've even heard of owners complaining of how it is fatiguing.

talon95

I have "read up on it", thank you. Nowhere did the article say that there were any reports of an Accord failing in the "sudden shifting down to 2nd gear" mode reported with the Acura.

Your post mentioned "feeling sorry" for Honda/Acura owners, and then stated "I couldn't even imagine cruising at 70mph and then being thrown into 2nd gear!" This implies that Accords have experienced failures that manifested themselves in this manner. The article never stated this. That's the FUD part... implying that a particular problem can affect an Accord in a specific way when that is NOT what has been reported.

If you're going to paraphrase an article, at least do so in a way that doesn't change its meaning.

rogerclore

Have any of you that bought a new 2003 accord noticed any problems?

The only major problem I have found is that the front passenger door is not flush with the frame.

Any other issues???

talon95

You make some very good points. Actually, the biggest point I was trying to make was regarding the second transmission problem. If one wasn't reading closely, or didn't follow the link, it's easy to assume that Acura replaced that person's transmission with one that was claimed to have the problem rectified, only to have the "fixed" one fail in the same way. Clearly that didn't happen, and I wanted to emphasize that. I understand that person's frustration, but his situation doesn't really change the Acura transmission issue in any way that has far reaching implications.

As for the Acura/Honda FUD, I wasn't talking about what Honda did. When you see a post with the following quote: "I really do feel bad for those honda/acura owner's, this tranny issue is quite a serious problem! I couldn't even imagine cruising at 70mph and then being thrown into 2nd gear!", it clearly implies that the transmission problem that has been reported with some Acura TL/CL's affects Accords as well. The LA Times article that has been repeated posted and quoted mentioned problems with 2 different Honda automatic transmissions, the 5-speed in the TL/CL and the 4-speed for the Accord V-6. It did NOT say that any Accords have failed in the manner reported concerning the Acuras. And I'm not aware of any other reports that make such a statement.

I don't see anything wrong with Honda trumpeting the association between Honda and Acura... the synergy involved has resulted in some of the best autos the 2 companies have ever made. Toyota doesn't keep its relationship to Lexus a secret, nor does Nissan with Infiniti, VW with Audi, etc. This marketing approach is not creating FUD... rather, misleading posts like the one referenced above, where an issue with an Acura is reported as if it affects Hondas as well, is what's creating the FUD.

ironmanterp

You make good points as well. I wasn't really examining the pros and cons of the Honda -> Acura relationship, just trying to explain why folks look to Acura for some insight as to what MAY be happening with Honda. I didn't mean to imply that Honda should try to hide the relationship.

I really believe Honda hurt themselves by lumping the two issues together and not clearly defining them for customers of both camps. The causes identified are the same (debris clogging fluid and causing erratic shifting), as was the solution (redesign the tranny) and defect rate. But, you are correct that only the Acuras have been reported with the sudden kickdown problem. Still, since the enthusiast press has stated that the new Accord tranny is a modified TL tranny (likely at Honda's prodding during the pre-production intro), I personally would like a statement from Honda that doesn't leave so much to be interpreted by us.

It's been a pleasure exchanging thoughts with ya!

talon95

I just perused the NHTSA consumer complaints for the 2000, 2001 and 2002 Accord, and there are no mentions of any transmission failures of the type described by the LA Times article for the TL/CL. Quite a few postings for the known "reverse clunk" issue, but only a couple about specific transmission failure, and the description of the failure was nothing like the Acura description.

dudleyr

U.S. Prices are as follows.

$25,800 for Accord EX w/ leather

$28,980 for 3.2 TL base price

Difference of $3,180.00

Prices are for 2003 models off of Honda/Acura web site.

yugoboy

what about the Odysseys!!!??? And the article clearly states that trannies used in the accord are affected too!!!! You seem to think this is only an acura issue when it is not!!!! My sister own's a Odyssey and i am quite concerned about this!!!!

bowke

the tranny issues are on 6th generation accords...not '03's. the tranny in the '03 is completely new, and is not shared with other vehicles as of yet.

BTW...how many miles are on your sister's ODY?

bigbman

Well it's new to me!!! It has a horrible smell coming out of the vents when the a/c first comes on. What's the cause/solution? This is my 5th Honda and I have never had the problem

bowke

i sell used handas also, and every time i get a smell from one, its a car that transported a dog on a regular basis...contact the previous owner, and ask them if the had a dog in the car.

bigbman

I bought it from a dealer, but do know that there were no pets in the family. I know some cars have filters in/behind the dash that need replaced periodically. Does Honda? Any other suggestions?

ironmanterp

If the odor is a musty or mildewy odor, it might be mold or spores in the AC system. This isn't uncommon. Spraying Lysol over the inlet vents (outside the windshield just below the windshield wipers) a minute or so while running the AC and fan on medium speed can help kill any mold and mildew that may be present. I've never had a problem with paint after doing this, but I do make sure to spray some water and wipe after doing this, just in case.

Hope this helps - good luck!

deerlake7

Like many of you, I've been anxiously waiting to try an '03 Accord. Since Monday, I've driven two EX V6's and for the most part they were excellent. One major problem I found with both of them, however, is they each "drifted" to the right while going down the road. They were driven in different parts of the city, both on an interstate, as well as in town and in every instance they would not stay on course. The fact that I had to make constant steering corrections were a great disappointment. My daughter's '01 tracks very well, so I expected the '03 to be a least as good.
Anyone else out there notice that phenominon?

emale

i'd be willing to bet my bi-weekly paycheck that the new 5 speed automatic used in the '03 accord is almost/or nearly exactly the same as the one used in the acura TL and odyssey mini. just think about it; all three vehicles have a transverse layout and are fwd. all three when equipped with v6 spin out around 240-260hp. this transmission is shared between all vehicles. it would be prohibitively expensive for HONDA to develope two or three different 5 speed automatics for vehicles that have the same basic powertrain layout...

btw, i'm laughing when you guys talk about acura and honda as if they are different companies. they aren't! they are one company...HONDA!

snowdon

I have my first problem with my EX-V6. There is this weird creaking noise from the front end. It happens only at low speeds, and if you put the brakes on it goes away. I am thinking maybe a bushing that needs to be lubed.

Michael

seaf

I don't think the transmission is the same in the new accord as the odyssey and acura TL. It might be the same as the new CRV. The main reason is that I remember reading the new i-VTEC engine rotates in the OTHER direction relative to the regular VTEC engines. So far only 3 cars have the i-VTEC engines, the acura RSX, honda CRV, and now Accord.

Either way, according to the LATimes article, if honda knew about the TL/CL transmissions design flaws, they should've been able to design a workaround to the problem by now.

emale

snowdon,

bushings aren't supposed to need lubing...

emale

seaf,

the cr-v only has a 4 speed automatic. to add to my previous post on the 5 speed autobox; i also highly doubt there is any significant difference between the 5 speed auto in the 4 banger accord vs the v6...

anonymousposts

If you want an Accord - buy one.
If you don't want an Accord - don't buy one.

Honda is fixing the affected trannys. What else do you want them to do?

bcab17

The last local Honda dealership got back to me today with their 39 month/12k mile lease offer:
EX-L 4-Cyl. Auto. Trans. @ $287/mo. + $2000 o.o.p.

I was all set for the I4 when he hit me with a deal for a V6 (EX-L) @ $312/mo. + $2000 o.o.p.

The I4 is all I need (for the way I drive), but is $25/mo. too small a difference to pass up the V6?

Regarding the Honda tranny problem, has the new '03 V6 been reported to having the same problem, and does the problem include the I4?

Thanks in advance for your help.

bodydouble

Much too early to tell if the '03 has the tranny problem.