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Comments
If you have a problem with the tires.com wheels, they carry several different makes, maybe it was the wheels and not the supplier.
All those things that require changing will not be done by the average consumer, so again that wouldn't effect the strut/rod debate. MOST consumers don't look under the hood unless there's a problem. MOST Hondas don't have problems that would require the owner to look under the hood regularly so the proprod wouldn't matter to them.
Anyone has any idea? Thanks.
I test drove an Accord built in Mexico it seemed to hesitate when passing Taco bell.
A shot below the belt, but it probably hit the nail on the head, in a manner of speaking.
I'm considering the purchase of a EX-L sedan with the 4-cylinder engine. I'm coming from an Acura 2.2 CL, so acceleration is not a concern. But, I read a few posts that indicated that the 4-cylinder had a very rough idle. Are others having this problem, or were these just a few isolated cases?
I have an appointment on Tuesday for a test drive with the internet salesman, and this is probably the best way to judge. But, I was curious as to what current owners think.
Thanks for the comments.
Bob
yes, it was a great help.
just wondering if you had 6.5" speakers in the back with a metal frame that should hold the size of 6x9's.
had to pay circuit city to "air saw" the template for the 6x9's to fit in the rear deck.
other than that, it was an easy install.
thanks again for posting.
Geeeeze, enough already about prop rods versus struts. Moan, Moan, Moan. Is that is all there is to 'b' about, get a life!
I enjoyed the car humor a few numbers back. Sometimes we take things way to serious. Please someone tell me about their experience getting an extra key made (without remotes) for this new car. So far, my dealer has struck out. It's like Honda forgot to tell them how to do this one. An extra key without the remote stuff would be nice to have. Thanks in advance for any input. JW
2)Compare options with www.handa-accessories.com. Match the price and maybe throw in $30 for labor but no more. But if you hardball you can get if for the internet price installed.
3)Don't get the extended warranty, but if you feel you must, match it at least to www.hondawarranty.com, they are a MA state honda dealer selling it over the internet. But remember you can buy it within 2 years of buying your car, so maybe wait and save up and buy it then.
4)Try to get financing away from the dealer if possible. Too bad the 3.49 special is over but good credit should get you 4.9 at worst. Check out www.penfed.org you can join by joining some military support group so you don't have to be part of the military. 4.49 for new cars is what they are offering right now.
5)Don't get window etching, it's worth $29 at the most, go to www.CarEtch.com and do it yourself for $29, my dealer tried to charge me $799, what a thief.
6)Lo-jack, do not get it. Just get an auto-lock and be careful, Theives now know where the lo-jack is and can disable it or they take it to a underground garage where it can't be tracked. Maybe if they offered it for $400 or less if you need the false peace of mind.
7)GAP insurance might be offered by your insurance company for cheap. Mercury Insurance in California charges me $9 for six months. You only need it for 2-3 years max before your car is worth more than what you owe. If need to get it pay $200 at the most.
Check out www.carbuyingtips.com for more good tips.
I checked carsdirect.com and the EXv6 is going for $250 over invoice in the Los Angeles area. Decent price for a no haggle experience.
Good luck and don't take any BS just walk out of a dealership. There's too many honda dealers to take any crap besides a Camry isn't too bad.
If you need tips, drop me a line at ackang@hotmail.com put CAR HELP in the subject.
Alex
Thanks for the comments. The idle on my Acura CL 4-cylinder was fine, and I would be surprised if the Accord was worse in this regard. Perhaps those who complained of this had a mistuned car or something similar.
About the prop rod disagreement--I was looking at an Infiniti G35 the other day, and it also has a prop rod. The salesman said that the hood is made of aluminum with limited bracing to save weight and that the prop rod was necessary because the hood did not have the strength stay up with struts. I don't know if this is the case, but I certainly agree that the prop rod/strut issue doesn't seem all that important.
Bob
Dinu
Not everying can be installed for $30. You will need to pay the dealer's hourly rate.
Usually getting fincaning on your own is better, but sometimes special rate financing is available from Honda Finance and the dealer might make a commision on this that you could use to get little larger discount on the car provided the rate is the same of better than you could get outside.
s852: If the conditions are right, they can install it for $30 (granted not everything). If the mechanics are sitting around, they aren't going to lose MORE money by installing something for $30. Matching HandA's price still leaves a margin over cost before the labor. If its a condition of buying the car, they can do a lot.
More likely they can discount the part more than the labor.
s852,
I went to numerous dealers, almost everyone agreed to put the accessories in for free at the internet price, if you make it a condition of the sale but I gave the $30 as a guide. I paid $34 to get my autodimming mirror from handa-acc installed at another dealer, not the one I bought the car from. The auto dimming is one of the most difficult installs compared to other things.
Of course financing should be compared to the dealer, I was just giving a site that has 4.49% so that people can compare, get the 4.49% and then try to have the dealer beat it. I myself went through the dealer for the 3.49% in December.
Alex
Does anyone know if S/S tipped exhust and premium floor mats are standard on the E/X V/6?
Alex
Take a look at the Mazda6 V6.
Dinu
On the EX-L for 2003, you now get the automatic climate control and "most" of the other features of the EXV6 other than side curtain airbargs.
You can even get the navigation system on the EX-L.
Alex
They have Dunlop SP Sport A2 for $74 - highest rated on tirerack, and Yokohama Avid H4 for $59 (cheapest performance they had). Hopefully others will post their experiences...
The only Ford part in the 6 is the ENGINE BLOCK ONLY coming from the Duratec engine, which has been re-engineered by Mazda. That engine has been reliable. It's the same engine found in the MPV, a van that has all what the Odyssey has for less $, with better handling, all in a smaller package.
The Protege has reliability on par with the Civic and Corolla (CR) and has beaten those two on comparison tests (Car and Driver Nov. 2002). The Miata has also been good. The only problematic Mazdas were the 626 4cyl w/auto tranny (not the 5spd V6), the B-series (rebadged Ranger), the RX-7 (Mazda didn't do its homework on the rotary engine back in the 90s). The Protege, MPV, Miata have been recommended by CR many times, and those are all Mazda, just like the 6.
Drop by the Accord vs 6 room in Comparisons to form a better opinion about the truth of Ford's involvement in the 6 - or lack of.
Dinu
The tires seem to be a little more noisy than the Energy and handle very well, and cost mush less.
As far as Mazda6 goes, it has a long way to go before it can prove itself to be a benchmark car that Accord has established itself to be. And to be one, it has to do more than what it is doing right now. It is not how big bang a launch can cause, it is how the bang holds up over time. Honda has traditionally targeted value with Accord, by keeping low ownership costs while delivering a car that does everything well, if not being the best in anything. Thats a delicate balance, but also something that has made the Accord a car that is the car to beat for just about any automaker in America.
The problem rather lies in the fact that the Accord is over-rated by the media and its owners, those very same people that will not cross shop it with anything else but a Camry - and Camrys nowadays are simply bloated. No wonder the Accord fits the bill when you ignore the 6, Altima and others.
Dinu
Yes, mine locks the first time too, but my question is why do we need the second hit confirmation? Is there a time where the first hit will not lock all the doors?
>Keyless by rhard49 Jan 25, 2003 (6:49 pm)
>mine locks the first time when you hit it twice >the horn beeps as confirmation.
I noticed an immediate drop in my MPG when I went from the Michelins to some Toyo tires. At least 1.5 mpg. Plus the Toyo's were considerably noisier.
If you get 50,000 miles from a set of tires, and these tires give you an extra 1.5 mpg, that's a savings of 100 gallons of gas over the lifespan of the tires (for a car that gets 28 mpg). That adds up to $150 at $1.50/gal.
Just take that into consideration. I'm going back to the Michelin MXV4's as soon as these Toyo's wear out.
Here's a couple reference articles:
http://waw.wardsauto.com/ar/auto_new_tires_keep/
http://www.repp.org/discussion/ev/200210/msg00466.html
http://member.rivernet.com.au/btaylor/BMWText/technical/FuelEffic- - iency.html
BTW, like Jan, I purchased my Dunlop's at a Discount Tire center. But, be sure to call around--the prices vary from store to store.
Bob
I prefer locking it from the armrest switch as I get out to see all doors locked, then closing the door.
Dinu
OTOH, if for some reason your trunk is open or if a door is partially open, it will not beep at you alerting you to a potential problem.
I'm sure you mean well...?
The tires (Michelin MXV4 Energy Plus) that came with my Accord from the factory are very expensive and replacement was going to cost $127 per tire. They lasted about 54K miles. I decided to go with Michelin X-One and saved about $45 per tire (still more expensive than most other brands), and it is quieter on the surface that MXV4 didn't like much. Honda probably gets MXV4 Energy Plus with harder compound (longer life and low rolling resistance at the expense of some grip and road noise on old concrete surfaces). However, MXV4 Energy plus appeared to have an advantage in rolling noise over the tires I've got now. It is noticeable on smooth surface with the windows down.
If the remote on new Accord works like it does in my 98 Accord, it will lock the door the first time. Second time is only if you need to confirm if it did. Also, if you lock the doors and then press the unlock button, and if you don't open the door in about 15 seconds, the doors will lock again. I also believe that the doors will not lock if the hood (and the trunk?) is open or if a key is left in the ignition.
I don't care about what the media says or what the commercials suggest, about Accord, Camry, Altima, Mazda6 or Passat. I make my own judgment about my car. It is my money after all is said and done.
However, I can see why C&D loves the Accord. It is very much in-line with my own experience and beliefs. It's the balance of a lot of attributes that make me want to replace my Accord with another (although at this time, I am considering TSX as the replacement).
As far as 2001 Civic goes, one of the major disappointments that many had was related to Honda using Macpherson struts for the front suspension. To me, it appeared that more people expect Honda to deliver things differently than others. How many times have you heard people making fuss about suspension layout in Camry, Altima, Protégé, Focus, Golf, Sentra etc.? As for first year jitters, much of it can be attributed to a worldwide overhaul of the manufacturing process. It started with 2001 Civic, so that car was the first to get affected. I would have expected the same if it were a brand new manufacturing facility as well. Has it improved since then? I bet. BTW, the lines used to manufacture 2003 Accord are the last to receive the overhaul process.
Speaking of Camry, my favorites were early 90s model (stylingwise, the mid-90s version). Since then, Camry has become too soft for my attention. And some cars like Altima 3.5SE (have not driven the Mazda6 yet) are too harsh to be a family sedan. Accord, as always, tries to be mid-pack in its regular trims. One of Honda's success with Accord has to do with the middle-ground approach. BTW, I have driven Accord Type-R in UK and believe me, it is a completely different beast.
Well the PRO has TTL in the rear and is (along with the recall-plagued Focus) the best handling small car out there. The Civic became too much of a mainstream car trying to please everyone and forgetting how back in the early 90s they were so fun to drive. I think this is why so much fuss was made. I had a 93 Civic before my PRO so I am not biased against Hondas.
The 6 delivers a blend of comfort along with great highway manners. The PRO's ride is harsh according to some (b/c of the low profile tires), but the 6 seems to have the perfect blend of handling, acceleration, braking, all in a package that is fit to be a family sedan.
If you liked the TSX, go for a drive in a 6. They should be similar in handling and size, and they do look quite the same (front of car). So far, I haven't heard of anyone not liking how the 6 drove. Some even said it drives better than the Accord on poorly-maintained roads. Some said they're going from the A4 to the 6 b/c it delivers a great blend of handling, looks, and most importantly value.
Dinu
I drove the Accord 4cyl and the Mazda6 4cyl with a stick. The Mazda and Honda dealers were within miles of each other so it was a fair contest (same local roads, same highway, same weather, same day).
Accord
The Accord has a better engine. It revs nicely AND it has some low end torque ... enough torque to prevent you from rowing the gears constantly. The Accord at 2500 rpm can get out of its own way but the Mazda wouldn't do it until the mid 30's.
The transmission on the Accord is slicker, too. The shifter is precise and the clutch is the stuff of Honda legend.
At highway speed the engine rpm's aren't as high as the Mazda6 and yet the Accord's torque let you modulate the car without shifting.
Yet the ride on a rather miserable stretch of highway was ... miserable. Choppy and noisy were all I could think while going down the road. The idea of spending an extended day in the car was not appealing. This sort of took me by surprise because the reviews have all talked about how great the car is on the open road. Go figure.
Around town the car road well, handled well and was quite nice. I liked it.
Mazda6
The 4cyl engine needs rpms to pull off its magic but is quite nice when it gets going. It'll rev like hell and is quite a bit of fun. Still, the Honda has it beat on low end grunt.
The transmission isn't quite as nice as the Honda but it is in the same league. The release of the clutch in 1st gear on the 4cyl is a little odd, as others have noted, but is something you'd get used to pretty quick.
The handling and ride is where Mazda puts the Honda to shame. The Mazda handles quicker, the steering wheel is more responsive and the 6 rides better, too. On the miserable stretch of highway the Mazda6 was reasonably tolerable. Road noise was there but it was of a different frequency and pitch than the Honda (and it didn't seem to grate on my nerves as much as it did in the Accord). You aren't going to mistaken the ride for a big yacht but it was a LOT better than the Honda. IMHO the Mazda would be the better car over a long haul.
I tested the Mazda6 with and without the 17" tires. If you prefer the 17" then get 'em and be happy. But the compromise of handling/noise/ride with the 16" tires is pure magic to me. Mazda really nailed the compromise between ride and handling nicely.
Around town the car was a hoot. It road well, handled great, was fairly quiet. It was also a lot of fun, sort of like a toy that begs to be played with. It just loves to rev and will handle curves like a winner.
Summary
The Accord has a lot of strengths and is a damn fine car. If it was my only choice it'd be a good decision based on the drive, not to mention the resale value. When the test drive was over I kept thinking it was a nice car.
The Mazda won't have the resale value of the Honda. But when I was driving it I was smiling and laughing. I didn't want to bring it back into the dealership and end the demo. When the test drive was over I wanted to go back and drive it again.
Both are fine cars. Go test 'em both and see which one make you happy."
Dinu
1. convenience...we all know convenience always costs a little more.
2. time...you can do everything a dealer can, but a dealer can do it all in a matter of a couple hours.
3. and finally, believe it or not, trust...many people trust a dealer's product, whether its a car, a warranty, an accessory, repairs, or other services. reason: even if the dealer doesn't back up a product, you have the manufacturer behind them.
car buying isn't all about the price of the car. if it were, Yugo would still be around. its about a 'good deal', and a good deal is different for every person. people pay for convenience, and for a fair profit, a dealer will make everything convenient, but if you insist on leaving the dealer nothing after the sale, then you have not paid for their convenience or service after the sale.
why in the world would you want to buy a car warranty on the internet?!?! we all know what can happen to a dot-com, and it usually does. they go belly-up, and you pay your own repairs, AND lose the initial cost of the warranty. get a manufacturer-backed warranty, and you KNOW they will be around to honor it.
all in all, alot of people are willing to pay a little more for peace of mind and convenience. but it is up to each person INDIVIDUALLY.
Case in point: if I didn't know my numbers, I would have paid $9,000 above invoice, or $150 more per month over a 60-month car note, for my 03 EX purchase last Nov.
If that's not price-gouging, I don't know what is.
The public's image of the car dealer, and it's not the publc's fault, is that of the predatory car dealer taking advantage of unknowing buyers.
New-generation car salespeople are caught in the archaic systems of the industry, sadly. What's a careful consumer to do if not to explore the internet and other non-traditional sources ?
Until car dealers change the way they conduct the business, the public will find solutions.
Hmm Fear Factor what a name for a tv show.