Older Honda Accords

isellhondas

I think I started by saying " In my not so humble opinion"

But since you decided to give me a nasty response, why exactly do you feel you really need a V-6?

I'm just curious, that's all.

blufz1

I tow a small bass boat. The 6 has more features than the 4. It's smoother,quieter,and seems less stressed than the 4s for my driving.

neteng101

It was cheaper or equal cost to lease a V6 vs. I4 SE recently. Why not?

thegraduate

Sounds like someone woke up on the wrong side of the dealership this morning...

Towing a bass boat. How much does the boat and trailer weigh? I don't think the V6 is rated to tow more than the I4 if I recall correctly (both can tow 1,000 pounds). The limit isn't the power, it's the suspension, frame, transmission, braking, or any combination of the others...

blufz1

The rig weighs 700 lbs. I drive as slowly as is safe,55 to 60. V6 has more torque than the 4. It seems to pull it with ease. I got 26 mpg once driving 50 mph while pulling the rig.

bolivar

When VSA is activated, the computer also starts to 'manage' the throttle. It usually closes the throttle (slows the car down). Actually, it probably does not close the throttle, since this is a mechanical action, it probably either shuts down the fuel injection or the ignition spark - either way, the engine power being applied will drop.

thegraduate

700 pounds shouldn't be a problem for either engine, although the V6 will certainly not need to rev as high and will have more low end grunt for takeoffs. Defintely the right choice if you pull that boat or have a full load of passengers often.

thegraduate

Actually, it probably does not close the throttle, since this is a mechanical action, it probably either shuts down the fuel injection or the ignition spark - either way, the engine power being applied will drop.

Technically, the throttle is electronically controlled, so I would think closing the throttle would be a pretty viable method for VSA.

blufz1

Yeah,the towing is no problem. My 02 v6 has 79k and has been the best car I have ever owned. I believe the V6 has slightly stiffer springs and suspension settings than the 4 to accomodate the larger engine.The stiffer suspension also contributes to easier towing. Actually, it's not about the revs,they are about the same at highway speeds. The V6 is just a bigger tool for a bigger job.

thegraduate

Well, by revs, i was referring to how high you have to rev to maintain normal acceleration. In the 4-cyl you will have to rev higher to accelerate at the same rate as the V6 (although revving a Honda 4-cylinder is a joy in my opinion). Not everyone likes the idea of their engine working hard though, and for them, the V6 is the obvious choice.

blufz1

I think the revs would be apprx the same 4 vs. 6 during acceleration. The throttle position would be more open on the 4 to pull at the same rate as the V6. Of course,I'm not in a trailer pulling contest. I'm starting slowly and smoothly.

isellhondas

Fair enough. You may be one of the few that actually "need" a V-6. I just wasn't thinking of an Accord as a tow vehicle.

And I suppose if I had to pass a lot of trucks on two lane roads, that could make a difference also.

ray_h1

)) "It is my not so humble opinion that nobody "needs" a V-6." ((

Faux humility aside, I have several questions for the site Honda Accord V6 experts:

1) Are the 2-4-6 bank of sparkplugs (those nearest the firewall - leastways that's how they're numbered on my Hyundai V6) removable without removing the intake manifold? I'm already aware that sparkplug servicing isn't due on Honda Accords until the drop side of 100,000 mile yonder.

2) Does the Accord V6 use a timing chain or a belt?

3) Does the Accord's V6 engine use hydraulic lifters or are periodic valve adjustments necessary?

Unrelated to my questions above, one argument in favor of the I4 edition Accord is the reduced weight over the front wheels. Less weight at the front equates to closer to neutral handling characteristics. Having said that, a hypothetical 2.6L I4 with low restriction exhaust and intake plumbing might be a really interesting proposition.

isellhondas

1. Not necessary to remove the intake manifold.

2. V-6 uses a timing belt that should be changed at 105,000 miles of seven years. 4 cyl uses a chain.

3. Hmmm I should know this one...I'll ask one of the techs.

The 4 cyls don't require a valve adjustment unless they get noisy. That's no big deal anyway.

Another reason I happen to perfer the 4 cyls relates to your last paragraph. They do feel more nimble than the V-6's are.

One of our guys got an older Accord up to 138 MPH before he chickened out. The newer ones have even more power.

That is WAY beyond anything I would be doing!

mcpepper

I typically drive with 4 adults through the mountains of PA. I've been doing this for 12 years in 4 cyl cars. When it was time to replace one of the cars, a V6 was a "need" not a "want" that I was willing to pay for.

To continue with your analogy, who really needs leather seats, or a moonroof, or a 6 cd changer, or satellite radio, or an auto dimming mirror, or fill in the blank?

isellhondas

Those are certainly wants.

Auto dimming mirrors drive me nuts as they constantly adjust.

Still, if a person can afford those extras and they add to the pleasure of owning a long term car, why not?

blufz1

isell..... Who really needs a new car?

isellhondas

Or do they need a car at all?

I guess nobody needs a NEW car. They can buy used.

And, I suppose people could get by with no car at all. take the bus, walk or depend on others but to me havina A car is a definate need at least where I live.

isellhondas

I asked and they have hydraulic lifters.

These never need an adjustment but the CAN go bad.

Same with timing chains vs. timing belts. Chains do not have scheduled replacement intervals but they can wear too and tensioners can wear out.

This won't happen often but given enough miles, anything can wear out. Even on a Honda.

blufz1

Just kidding you isell in good fun. No offense intended.

isellhondas

That's how I took it. No offense taken.

elroy5

The valve clearance should be inspected at 105,000 miles on the V6 engine. I assume they use a timing "belt" on the V6 because it would require a very long, heavy chain. Belts are much lighter.

isellhondas

I just asked and was informed the V-6 had hydraulic lifters. I've never heard of adjusting hydraulics?

And, yes, the V-6's use a belt.

elroy5

I don't know about lifters, but the factory service manual says to inspect valve clearance at 105,000 miles (V6 supplement).

elroy5

I looked at the exploded view of the V6, and didn't see any mention of lifters (springs only). The Camshaft is directly below the rocker arm assembly, so why would they need lifters? This is not an American style V6. There are no push rods or lifters between the cam and rocker arms. Who did you ask about this? Next time ask someone else Haha.

isellhondas

I asked a very experienced parts guy. Maybe I should have asked a technician?

elroy5

Just for kicks, tell him you want to see a lifter. He may bring you a part, but it won't be a lifter.

isellhondas

And you are right.

So I asked a tech. He said V-6 Accords do not require valve adjustments. Hopefully this will answer the poster's question.

elroy5

They may never need adjustment. The service manual does say to inspect the clearances at 105k miles, though.

explorerx4

they may need to have different shims installed, if the clearance is out spec (isell getting on the phone to the service tech again).

redsfan1

isellhondas, out of curosity do you sell more 4 cylinders OR 6 cylinders?

thegraduate

I'm going to go out on a limb and say 4-cylinder models, since in the market as a whole, the last thing I heard was about 70% 4-cyl to 30% V6.

I don't sell Hondas, I'm just making an assumption.

elroy5

I don't know if you were just being sarcastic or not, but shims are used on Toyota V6 engines, not Honda's. (I don't know if I would bring my car to isell's dealership for service?) :confuse:

w9cw

There will be some type of lifter, or shim, between the camshaft and rocker - there always is in OHC engines, whether SOHC or DOHC. The camshaft does not operate the rocker or valve directly. Otherwise, there's no means of clearance adjustment over time. Many OHC engines today use solid shims (actually solid lifters) of various thickness for adjustment, and others do use hydraulic lifters. Look in a Honda shop manual, or just ask a Honda mechanic - he better know, or else I'd run from that dealer.

explorerx4

how is the valve clearance adjusted? i just going by how it was done with my old yamaha v6's.

elroy5

I'm going to go out on a limb and say 4-cylinder models, since in the market as a whole, the last thing I heard was about 70% 4-cyl to 30% V6.

That is a pretty strong limb grad. Most people are completely satisfied with the 4cyl. Heck, I was satisfied with my 140hp 4cyl. for 12 years.

thegraduate

I'm pretty satisfied with 130 hp in my 1996 Automatic. Only when loaded do I need more power in that car. In my 2006, I've never felt the need for more than the 166 hp the car offers.

elroy5

I'm not positive, but I think there is a roller on the rocker arm, that rides directly on the cam lobe. I don't see any shim or lifter in the exploded view (service manual).

The camshaft does not operate the rocker or valve directly. Otherwise, there's no means of clearance adjustment over time.

There is a screw (tappet) and locknut to adjust valve clearance, just like my old Honda motorcycle did.

jimmy81

When I'm smokin' ya in my Civic with a fart can you'll feel the need to punch it grad.

Unless you drive like your grandmother.

thegraduate

Eh, if I need acceleration, I'll drive my more powerful 2006 Accord. For the daily traffic slog and downtown driving, I doubt I ever use 70 hp or see more than 3,500 RPM, strictly because it is impossible to do so.

elroy5

When I'm smokin' ya in my Civic with a fart can you'll feel the need to punch it grad.

All your "fart can" does is make you even more annoying, if that's possible.

explorerx4

hey grad, since i caused you to take some abuse with the grandmother post, i'll give you a chance to get even.
i went to the grocery store to pick up a few things today.
when i got home i left the receipt on the kitchen counter.
my wife picked it started laughing and said 'you should start going to the store every tuesday'. clueless, i say why? she says 'they gave you the senior discount', you saved 40 cents. ouch. :sick:
actually, maybe i will go on tuesdays from now on. :P

jimmy81

Ill probably be even more annoying to you when I blow by you too.....

neteng101

That's ok... we will all wave when we pass by you with Mr. Cop behind your stopped fartcan. :P

elroy5

You could try. I would do either of two things (depending on surroundings). #1. Just laugh, and say look at the little idiot. #2. Hit the gas, and laugh even harder as you fade back in the rearview mirror. You would need much more than a "fart can" to get around me (engine swap, turbo, or both).

jimmy81

Roy - Sorry. I didn't mean to imply that all I had on my Civic was a fart can. Rest assured you would be left with your pants down as I blow by ya.

The Accord can't be tricked like the Civic. Plus the Accord's too heavy. What? 3600 lbs. That's a blob.

thegraduate

Eh, no grief. It kinda makes me smile, actually. Trust me, I, of all people, realize how entirely uncool it is to be driving my grandmother's hand-me-down. An automatic one, with the least-powerful engine that Accord offered at the time.

Doesn't take away from the fact that I love the car.

Since you mention it though, I'll bite...

** Takes free shot at explorerx4 **

I'm surprised you do the shopping - is there room for your walker AND all the groceries in the trunk?

Have a good night, sir.

Seriously - have a good one.

thegraduate

3,600 pounds? Sorry, you are about 800 pounds too heavy. The Accord I was talking about with 130 horsepower weighs approx 2,850 lbs. The new Civic EX = 2800 lbs.

Yep, that 50 pounds is a real deal-breaker. I could just about empty out my trunk (tools and spare tire) and lose that 50 pounds

When have I EVER talked about being a hot-rodder concerned with "blowing past people?"

Answer: Never. Blow by me all you want. I promise, I'll be ok.

tallman1

I do this all the time because I agree that it is hard to read the gauges in the daytime with the lights on. However, I find it awkward to reach that knob... that's one design that needs to be improved.

tallman1

Count me as one of those who feels the 06-07 back is vastly improved over previous versions. To each his/her own.