Older Honda Accords

ickes_in_mn

somewhere else. It looks like a photo shop of the TL body with RSX style headlights.

timadams

tntitan and jfunk, I just got done reading Car & Driver's comparison test of the Acura RSX, Toyota Celica, Mitsubishi Eclipse, Hyundai Tiburon and VW Beetle Turbo.

http://www.caranddriver.com /xp/Caranddriver/comparisontests/2002/may/200205_comparo_sportcoupes.xml (copy and paste and take out any spaces)

Check it out if you haven't read it yet. The RSX came out on top, with the Celica and Eclipse tied for 2nd place. The new Eclipse does nothing for me...I hate the restyled design, and it's slower than the Celica and RSX. I'm not ready to buy anything, but the Celica and RSX are at the top of my list...if I fit in without rubbing my head on the roof. I've already ruled out the MR2, S2000 and Miata due to headroom (and I really don't want a convertable anyway).

diploid

I wouldn't take the College Hills site too seriously. The rear shot of the 03 Accord is from MotorTrend. And yup, those RSX headlights on the TL body were floating around months ago.

jake80

I am looking to buy a 2002 Accord to take advantage of any end of model incentives. Price is key.

Would appreciate assistance from anyone who has some current knowledge/experience.

Most likely I am looking at SE as I like the additional features over LX.

Questions:

When is/will be the best time to buy ( in the May-June-July time frame)?

Will any model be a better buy than others?

Has anyone had experience with Cardirect.com in NYC metro area? Their base SE (no side bags) is $18,226 (incl destination). Tax, regist, etc is additional.

Any other things for me to know/be concerned with?

Thanks

civicw

Usually the last weekend in the month is a good time to buy. I've found that the weekend newspaper ads have the best deals, even better than carsdirect etc. There may be some ads with "one only LX/SE at this price" etc, but there should be some that say "all at this price". Anytime between now and August should be OK, IMO.

letsrock

As you get near the end of the model year, prices will no doubt be dropping. But then the downside is model/colour selection may be limited.

lumpent

Any insights on the possible interior design changes? I've got a 94 Accord and went to buy a 2002 and was rather disappointed by the change in driver compartment. I'm 6'4" and the way the console extends out from the dash leaves less than 1 inch between my knee cap and the corner. I'm afraid that even a small fender bender could send me off to the orthopedic surgeon. My older model has a flatter dash which leaves a more comfortable gap. Any renderings of the interior out there?

letsrock

I think the interior will be typical Honda in form and function. What I hope won't happen is a continuation of what I feel is a recent Honda trend to cheapen the quality of the material used. This is quite apparent if you compare, say, the 90 - 93 Accords to the current ones. This is also happening with the Civic and the new '02 CR-V.

subzero206

they say the 03 interior will be more upscale than typical honda designs. dont know about knee room though. try moving your seat back a little bit.

venus537

"What I hope won't happen is a continuation of what I feel is a recent Honda trend to cheapen the quality of the material used. This is quite apparent if you compare, say, the 90 - 93 Accords to the current ones"

what exactly have you been smoking??? Your second sentence above is riduculious.

diploid

I would suggest shopping during the weekday. The majority of sales are done on the weekend (that's when most people are free), so if you shop during the weekday, there's less competition among buyers.

I'm hoping for a flat rear floor like in the Civic for the 03 Accord. The other day I had the misfortune of sitting in the middle backseat of a friend's Cavalier. Not only did the tunnel hump annoy me (haven't been a backseat passenger in such a long time), but the middle seat was rock hard! Why do manufacturers do this?! It had a seatbelt in the middle, I assumed they wanted people to sit there...

diploid

venus- I have to agree with letsrock. In general, the quality levels have lowered in recent years. It's not the obvious things. Like once in a while, I get annoyed when I can feel the jagged plastic edges on my Civic's interior door handle. Or how the chrome trimming pops out if you slam the door too hard. It's little subtle things like that. It's still a great little car, but I had higher expectations for even a 15K car from Honda.

venus537

i see your point with the newer civic versus the previous civic. i don't see this with the accord however. i have owned/leased both the 90 accord and the 98 accord. in virtually every measurable way, the current accord is a major improvement over the 90-93 accords. hell, its even better than the acura legends (doesn't come close in the styling department though) of the time. while the 90 accord had a high quality interior for its time, it's pretty dismal compare to the 98 accord i had. even though the accord is in its last year, the interior quality is only surpassed by the passat. as for the 90-93 accords, it has had a lot more recalls than the current accords.

billylee

I do like the price of Accord SE 2002. But it comes without ABS. Any comments on this? I really don't know if ABS is neccessary or not.

jrct9454

...that there is no meaningful quality advantage to the early '90s Accord vs the current generation. I've had both side-by-side in the garage, and as noted above, I can't think of a single area in which the older car is better than the new one, and that certainly includes interior materials and fit/finish. On the road, the advantage shifts even more dramatically to the newer car...

alo

I had a 91 SE which was top of the line at the time. It had leather seats, moon roof & ABS. It was Honda's first car with ABS. It was a nice car. Compare to my current 99 EX (4 cyl w/o leather), I cannot say the 91 SE had better quality inside and out (even though the 91 SE was made in Japan). The 99 is quieter, feels more solid, has alarm and air bags, roomier, the engine feels stronger and more economical.

I don't want to start any argument, but I have not seen any trend that Honda has been 'cheapening' the accord.

letsrock

First of all, I think there is a valid argument that a car has to be compared to other cars in the same era for a meaningful comparison. But even if you compare the earlier Hondas to the current ones, I think quality has gone down. Don't be confused with technological advancements and content. Of course the current line-up has more features, more powerful, and is more advanced. I'm talking about good old workmanship and quality of material. Have you compared the simple things like the outside door handles. The ones on the current Accord are so light and flimsy that I'm sure it wouldn't take much to snap them off. They actually bend if you pull on them hard. If anyone has ever owned a '83 - '87 era Prelude. The door handles on those are fit for a Mercedes.
Take a close look at the seams on the seats, the construction of the glove box door, etc. As for fit and finish, I remember in the "old days" when we bought a Honda, it NEVER occurred to us that we had to examine the fitting of the hood/truck/doors, etc. Because that was never a problem. Now, that's the first thing I look for. It's hit and miss now. Some are decent, some are terrible -- and this applies to the Acuras too! For a more recent comparison, take a look at the interior of the new CR-V vs the old one. Vinyl/cloth combo seats? That's what Honda calls progress?! I recall that I used to say a Honda always looks like a more expensive car. I'm not sure that applies to the current crop anymore.

silvercrown

I understand the point that letsrock is making about automakers using cheaper quality materials in recent models, compared to past versions. I haven't made the same meticulous comparisons, but I do know that the upholstery in my 2000 Camry feels cheaper in quality that the cloth material in the 1992-1996 Camrys. The covering on my seats isn't nearly as nice or as substantial as what was used on the generation that preceded it.

I agree that most of these quality changes are subtle and are in areas where it is not as noticeable. In the more major areas of performance and features, etc., most cars have improved over the years. However, some small details have changed (and not necessarily for the better). I look at it as cost-cutting measures that save a few bucks but allow the mfg to offer other features in the car. Why can't we have both (without the price skyrocketing)? Is that asking for too much? I guess so ..... :-)

ktrandc1

I just leased a Honda Accord '02. Model was EX leather 3.0 V6 white. I leased thru the fleet manager and what a great experience that was. We talked on the phone, agreed on a price, he prepared all of my paperwork, I came in afterwork, signed the papers and drove off. I'll never buy any other way!! My deal was: Cap cost $22,273.01, residual $14,168, 36 months, 15000 miles/year, money factor .00135, drive off $520 (license and 1st payment, he said I could have absorbed this into my monthly payment but I wanted to keep them low), and my monthly payment is $317.75. The great thing about this car is there are no upgrades, everything is included (in-dash cd-changer, sunroof, power seats, etc.). Actually the only upgrade was a security system. He told me that it couldn't be residualized so I didn't want to pay for the whole thing if I was going to be using it for only 3 years (it costed $420 but he was willing to let me have it for $290 but I decided to pass on it anyways). The V6 is definitely a better ride than the V4. The transaction was so easy I kinda felt like I got swindled, but the next lowest quote I got was $600 drive off, $351 a month for 15,000/year (I got a total of 4 quotes). The best part about it was when I walked into his office he was browsing on the Edmunds website. I thought that was cool. Let me know what you guys have been getting and what you think of this deal.

silvercrown

I have wondered about this ever since the buzz on the new Accord design began. Why is Honda so secretive about this? Toyota was the same way with the Camry. I was all excited to finally see it and was frankly disappointed with the styling was it was "unveiled".

I don't understand why Honda and Toyota build up so much suspense before allowing the public to see the new designs. There are already pictures of the new Mazda 6 and some 2003 models (of other vehicles, like Corolla, Infiniti G35) are already available in the showrooms. Heck, when VW remodeled the Passat, they didn't even wait for the next model year, they labeled it a 2001.5 and put it right on the market. But maybe there's a different strategy when you have one the best selling cars on the market.

Okay, I'm done with my rant for today. I guess I'm just as curious as everyone else to see the new Accord. I always liked it and I almost bought one when I bought my Camry, but I found that the steering wheel was a bit too close for comfort. I didn't see the seating as being comfortable over the long run. The Camry offered more room in that area, as well a cassette/CD player, so that's what I bought. There were some things about the Accord that I preferred, but I had to make a choice, so I did. But if I like the new Accord, it may be my next car this time. I just can't get with the styling of the new Camry and I want a reliable, high quality vehicle, and the Accord fits the bill on those counts. Plus, it's priced more competitively. So keep the news tidbits and the spy shots coming!

alo

When I bought my 91 SE, the MSRP was little more than 20K and I paid 18K. The 99 EX MSRP was about 21.5K and I paid 19.5K. The 99 EX, with exception to leather seats, has everything the 91 SE had and more, including CD, remote with alarm, air bags etc. When you account for inflation, I believe the price of Accord has actually gone down.

Comparing the current accord with the last generation of Camry, the Camry did feel a lot cheaper including using of a lot of hard plastic and skinny steering wheels. The current version of Accord feels a lot better than the last crop of Camrys.

I also have 96 Avalon and the material used is excellent. However, I paid 28K and you can buy a Avalon for less money with higher contents. The manufacturers have to make up with cost saving somewhere. Some you see..some you don't..some are real..some are imaginary.

porknbeans

I think your anticipation and anxiety answered your own question about why Honda and Toyota don't leak info on their new products. The excitement built without showing anything usually surpasses the excitement from putting it all on display too early. Plus, it gives the public and critics less of a chance to tear it apart before the product in on the market. Yes, there is also less of a chance to have good press and reviews to build it up but I've seen very little negative said about the Accord.

silvercrown

I guess when it really comes down to it, it's all about marketing ....

I hope that the Accord lives up to the hype and anticipation (unlike the Camry IMHO).

diploid

Were pretty disappointing, IMO.

RSX, CR-V, Civic, Civic Si, Pilot...all were hyped about and when they were finally revealed, styling was only so-so. This is only applied to the exterior styling, interior jobs ranged from same (Civic) to totally redesigned (RSX) and some in betweens.

But what the hype succeeded in doing was bring attention to the models...without Honda having to pay the big bucks for advertisement.

ickes_in_mn

to hype their cars prior to launching a new model because the current cars typically sells well to the point that Honda has trouble meeting demand.

Those products that are previewed early are intended to generate excitement for a brand that isn't as competitive. For example, Mazda is starting to hype the new Mazda6 because the current 626 is a non-factor. That may make someone think about delaying the purchase of a competitor's car until the Mazda6 arrives. Also, Ford released the sketch of the Crosstrainer CUV to try and steal some thunder from Chrysler's Pacifica which will be to market first. Same thing with GM and all their early "sketches" that appear months ahead of launch.

I would think that the first credible information we will see on the new Accord is when Honda releases some sketches just before launch. They seem to hide their new models incredibly well because I don't remember seeing any photos of the Pilot leading up to its debut a NAIAS this year and only one of the current Civic.

YOUAREDUMB: The TL is moving up because Acura is reportably going to sell the JDM/European Accord as an entry level Acura sedan (replacing the excint Integra 4-door). I would think that the Accord's pricing points will be similar to the current model. Current exchange rates mean that you may get more content at each point, however, along with promised VW quality materials.

letsrock

I'm just curious, but what sort of upgraded security system did they sell you? The EX comes with a factory system and Honda has always cautioned people about adding or upgrading the built-in system. If there is a factory-approved upgrade available, I'm all ears because I don't really like the standard system.

jrct9454

...the marketplace, which is incredibly demanding in this segment, sets prices. Nissan tried to move the Altima too far up, and the market is already speaking - discounts are common, and street prices are right where they belong, a few bucks under equivalent Accord and Camry transactions.

I agree completely that "sneaking" a new design is almost always a sign of minor desperation - Mazda needs to do something to jumpstart the 6, which incidentally promises to be a good car.

But that last observation brings me to this: styling, per se, is probably the least important aspect of marketing cars in this segment. Waiting around breathlessly for a styling breakthrough from Honda [or Toyota] in these mainstream cars [Accord, Civic, Odyssey, Pilot, etc.] is a complete waste of time and oxygen. It will be what it will be, and if it succeeds [or fails, for that matter] it won't be over styling issues.

There are lots of complaints in the press and on sites like this one about the "bland" styling of mainstream Japanese sedans. I may be the only one around here who feels this way, but I find nothing to complain about from either Toyota or Honda for most of the last 20 years. Nissan went off into an alternate universe there for awhile, and look what happened...their cars were still reliable and reasonably priced, but the attempts [from the '70s right through the early '90s] to make their bread-butter cars look "different" only succeeded in making them look strange to too many people. If the new Accord manages to be a clear member of the Honda / Acura family, that's all that is required.

As for plans for Acura, Honda's challenge is that the near-lux market is going rear drive [thank you very much, it's about time] in a big way, and they have been resisting this trend. This is their big risk, not whether the new TL costs a little more or a little less. What they need is a $30k competitor that is rear-drive with a decent trunk and a good EU ride/handling compromise...can anyone say G35? The IS300 came close, though it needs another generation to fix its shortcomings - but you can count on Toyota to do it. Audi swims a little differently, but they do it mostly on the strength of AWD, and downplay the fact that their cars are fundamentally FWD. Honda can take the same approach, but what it can't do is continue to demand premium prices for front drive cars...it's why the TL, as modestly priced as it is, still sells on the street at a significant discount.

Anyway, there was a lot of obsessing about prices on the Altima board when it first came out, and veterans of the business counseled patience: sure enough, the market found its natural level, as it always does. Honda is very, very, very savvy about the American market...enough said...

ktrandc1

I was told that my car only has keyless entry, not active alarm. I don't know if that's true or not. I'll call them up and double check. They mentioned that the alarm system I would have gotten had a kill switch. update... I called them up and apparently it is only keyless entry that comes standard. The alarm is extra.

letsrock

I think they may be trying to scam you. The EXV6 comes standard with a factory alarm system and the immobilizer system (which is like a starter-kill). The system includes 2 key-fob remotes for lock/unlock/trunk release/panic button.

jrct9454

...and there are a couple of ear-splitting ways to test it, if you have any doubts. As pointed out in the previous post, this car already comes with everything reasonable to prevent theft. Mercedes and BMW with their electronic keys are one tiny step up from this level, but even they wind up in Mexico and the Eastern Bloc because real professionals will spend even more money to defeat these systems if someone wants to pay enough for the car.

Save your money - if a real thief wants this car badly enough, he is going to take it, but will have to work about as hard at it as with any car out there right now. Nothing a dealer can install will change that, so keep your money in your wallet.

lumpent

Probably goes without saying, but i always have the seat as far back as it'll go - as i did when i sat in the 02 Accord. If you compare the interior of the 02 with the 94, there is significantly less space between ones knee cap and the dash.

When i looked at the bmw 5s i was told that there was a pin that could be 'removed'/'relocated' so that the seat would slide back further. Seemed an add option, but does anyone know if that's possible on the accords? (without affecting the safety factor, of course).

I've also had an 87 accord and thought there was a step up in quality on my 94. But i most definitely got a sense that the interior of the 02 was 'cheaper' than the earlier models. I felt like i was in a civic dx rather than an accord SE.

beachnut

I'm thinking that if you actually do have the theft deterrent system, you should have a little red light next to the driver's door lock post. Mine says "security" next to the light, but I have an '00 SE. Seems like '02 is a mixed up year for options compared to the last 3 years. Things were more cut and dry.

billylee: I've owned two current gen Accords, one with ABS, one without. IMHO, spring for the ABS, it's well worth it.

SC

net_guy

http://genesis.brinternet.com/honda/information.php3

venus537

no, i'm not confusing technological advancements/content with quality. quality/fit and finish are among the highest priorities with me in purchasing a car. having owned both cars (90/98), i just don't see where your coming from. the trunk lid on the current accord is much improved over the 90 generation. the glove box, again, i just don't see it. much better with the current generation. as for the door handle, i'm must confess, i don't remember the ones from my 90 accord. but current accords have thicker steel than the 90 generation. they also don't have vinyl headliners like the 90 generation accords. the seats are more comfortable because they have more padding. the 90 generation also had an abundance of hard black plastic compare to the current ones. the knob for temperature variance in the 90 generation didn't turn with refinement, while the current generation knob turns with perfect resistance. as mentioned before, the 90-93 accords had many recalls for a honda. the body hardware just holds up much better with the current generation. if you're not smokin nothin, then what's in the water you're drinking?

ktrandc1

I do have have a red light next to the driver's door lock. I'll try locking it, then opening it up manually with my key to see if it goes off after my wife gets home from work. I wouldn't be surprised to see that they tried scamming me.

ickes_in_mn

on our 2001 EX drying the underside of the car doors after hand washing the car. I now leave the key in the accessory position to avoid triggering it. You can also set it off by locking the doors with the key fob from inside the car and then opening a door using an interior door handle. Also, I'd wear ear protection. The alarm blasts the horn at two or three times normal loudness. It is seriously, painfully LOUD!

Its a comprehensive alarm system that disables the ignition (and the radio I think) unless the key with the correct chip is inserted. That's why it costs a ton for a duplicate key and you're really skrewed if you loose the keys and that 4-digit number they give you.

This information should be included in the "How to Have Fun with your Honda" manual...

letsrock

To test it you have to do what ickes suggested. Because the system is a factory system, your key IS DESIGNED to arm and disarm the system just like with the remote. But really, you shouldn't have to go thru all that. It's all in the manual and the brouchure. Just show it to your dealer and ask them to refund whatever they charged you for the security "upgrade".

ickes_in_mn

That wouldn't be as much fun now would it?

bigzheng17

do you guys think price of accord will go down much between now and august? and avaliblility? i guess what am i asking is when will be a good balence between price and avalibility. and i heard some people say a good time to go to dealer is the last weekend of each month, is this true? how about weekdays, because i don't like really crowded.

thanks!

letsrock

In fact, I think the best time to go is weekday, BUT at or near the end of the month. As for prices, I think it's natural that prices will go down some as it gets closer to the end of the model year. But, at the same time, I don't think there is a glut of Accords sitting in inventory, so downward pressure on prices may not be as great as one would think.

tiger8

Consumer's Guide (June Edition) says the '03 Accord will have a larger interior, conservative exterior styling similar to the current Accord (naturally--why tamper with success?), and a V6 with possibly more power. I guess we'll know on June 16th or 17th, according to the press release cited above.

ickes_in_mn

in the new Car & Driver leaves me cautious about the new Accord. Its a true Honda in every way: Great build quality, fine dynamics, good materials, but rather dull in design. Not offensive in anyway, but not necessarily exciting either...

tiger8

Dull design of the '03 Accord? That's to be expected. Honda has always been conservative with the Accord, with cautious, evolutionary changes. Why tamper with success? If it's not broke, don't fix it; that's their motto. We will not see an Accord that looks like a Ferrari any time soon.

Kirstie_H

One major daily newspaper is looking for folks who drive 2002 or 2003 yellow or orange cars, and another major daily newspaper is looking for folks who successfully or unsuccessfully attempted to negotiate the purchase prices of their vehicles at the end of their lease terms. If you care to share your stories on either or both of these topics, please send an e-mail containing a short summary of your experience and your contact information to jfallon@edmunds.com no later than Tuesday, May 14.

Thanks much,

Jeannine Fallon
PR Director
Edmunds.com

ickes_mobile

that the '03 Accord will be the most radical change in the car's history. They must mean by their own conservative standards...

diploid

Maybe I'm just a boring person, but I find that Honda's, with the exception of the Insight and Odyssey, age *very* well. What I don't like is when they try to go on the edge and be like other car makers.

For example, I dont' like the TL's revised headlights. The old ones worked well with the car's overall design. Now it just looks like a small Lincoln Continental from the front.

letsrock

It wouldn't take much to qualify as "most radical" in the Accord's history. It's all marketing talk, just like saying stuff like "most powerful in the class" or "most cargo space". Usually the end product just ends up having 2 hp more than anyone else or .1 cubic foot more trunk space. Before Honda unveiled the new CR-V, the hype was some "big surprise". People are still scratching their heads trying to figure out what "big surprise" Honda was referring to. Maybe it's that big hole in the front wheelwell.

diploid

Oh, and I saw a Civic Si in real life the other day. The headlights, which looked really bad in the pictures that I've seen, work very well with the car. It doesn't look as toad-like in person.

letsrock

diploid

It's just my bias against minivans, but the Odyssey just doesn't look as good as, say, the new Dodge Caravan or Mazda MPV (I almost typed MP3).
Hence, it won't age well. Of course, this is purely subjective.