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BMW 5-Series Sedans

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Comments

  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,148
    I agree, the stats that I posted are pretty funny. ;-) That said, they are not EPA ratings. According to the 5-Series Brochure that I have (from which I converted the mileage numbers published in the metric "liters per 100 kilometers" format), the test used to generate these numbers is the "ECE Driving Cycle". Regardless, the numbers sound very high, maybe I screwed up my formula which is as follows:

    MPG = (kilometers * .62) / (liters * .22).

    Published Liters per 100 Kilometer ratings:
    Model City --- Mix --- Hwy
    525i - 13.10 - 09.40 - 07.20
    530i - 13.10 - 09.50 - 07.40
    530d - 09.70 - 07.10 - 05.60

    Calculated MPG Ratings:
    Model City --- Mix --- Hwy
    525i - 21.51 - 29.98 - 39.14
    530i - 21.51 - 29.67 - 38.08
    530d - 29.05 - 39.69 - 50.32

    Did I mess the conversion up?

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • fjk57702fjk57702 Posts: 539
    The liter to gallon conversion is 0.26 or 3.8 liters is 1.0 gallons. So the 530d is more like 42 MPG hwy. If you take the number 237.5 and divide by the number of liters of fuel per 100 kilometers, the resulting number is the MPG. (237.5 mile/gallon=100 km/1.6 km per mile *3.8 liter/gallon)
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,148
    Thanks! That is what I get for trusting to a conversion table I found on the WEB instead good old "unittab" from UNIX. :-/

    I will try again...

    MPG = (kilometers * .62) / (liters * .26).

    Published Liters per 100 Kilometer ratings:
    Model City --- Mix --- Hwy
    525i - 13.10 - 09.40 - 07.20
    530i - 13.10 - 09.50 - 07.40
    530d - 09.70 - 07.10 - 05.60

    Calculated MPG Ratings:
    Model City --- Mix --- Hwy
    525i - 18.20 - 25.37 - 33.12
    530i - 18.20 - 25.10 - 32.22
    530d - 24.58 - 33.59 - 42.58

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • fjk57702fjk57702 Posts: 539
    You were using the conversion for imperial gallons - which would apply if the numbers you have are for the United Kingdom.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    As an owner of neither, but having considered both, I can probably offer a more objective comparison.

    If you are inclined to get a non-sport automatic 530i and do a lot of highway driving with multiple passengers, the E320 may be a better choice. It is a bit bigger inside and seems slightly quieter at highway speeds. It definitely has more rear passenger room.

    The E320 is still (albeit greatly improved from 2002) no competition for a 530i sport in terms of steering and handling the twisties. And the 530i offers the option of a manual transmission, taking it to an even sportier level.

    For me, the E320 Wagon would be a great family hauler. But the 530i would be much more fun to drive.
  • sergeymsergeym Posts: 273
  • jbf5jbf5 Posts: 32
    Can anyone with a 530i 5 speed give me some shifting advice? I'm assuming that you can improve fuel economy by shifting to keep RPMs relatively low, but how low is too low for the 3.0 six?
  • riezriez Posts: 2,361
    cmr530i... Ran across the following sentence in the latest issue of European Car: "If anything, the stiff sidewalls of the run-flat tires fitted to the [MINI] Cooper S contribute adversely to the choppy ride of the standard car." This is the sort of comment you see all the time about run-flat tires. I think they have a long way to go and really don't offer much. I've had one flat tire in 18 years of driving cars I've owned. Had a couple slow leaks.
  • riezriez Posts: 2,361
    jbf5... All I've ever heard have been four things: (1) Do NOT ever lug the engine, (2) Do NOT overrev the engine, (3) Do NOT do jackrabbit starts or smoky tire burnouts, and (4) Don't obsess too much or you'll miss all the driving fun! [I'm a bit spoiled in my small town. Three stoplights. Normally no more than two city cops on duty. I tend to roll my stops slightly, and use 2nd gear. But I normally use 1st for complete stop. But the 540i6 engine/tranny combo readily allows these things.]
  • riezriez Posts: 2,361
    jay44... Can't say I remember why, but thinking I've always heard that tall, skinny tires were optimum. I ain't no physics major. And most recommend steel wheels. If just for their cost. I wouldn't recommend remounting using same wheels. Spring for tire and wheel combo. Doubt you'll go wrong with either size, as long as they are proper fit (esp. maintaining overall height). Key is just to get a decent set of dedicated winter tires and then drive carefully!

    Columnist Joe Chamberlain in the June 2003 issue of Roundel (BMW CCA) has his column remembering winter tires. Short excerpt: "Snow tires: tall, skinny tires with aggressive snow-shedding tread and maybe even some studs installed, mounted on steel wheels that wouldn't get packed up with snow and ice."
  • karmikankarmikan Posts: 116
    I went through the same decision-making process a few months ago. Here are some thoughts:

    1) They are both excellent cars, you'll probably be happy with either one
    2) The 5 enjoys a price advantage over the E
    3) As the E is a new model, the chance of a discount is minimal but you can probably get a nice deal on a 5 because it's an outgoing model
    4) You'll definitely need to drive them back to back. When I did this, the 5 was the clear winner. The 5 somehow felt sharper and I felt connected to the car rather than just riding in it. A difficult feeling to describe and admittedly a very subjective assessment.
    5)The E is a first year model and it seems to have a few bugs to work out. Not a big deal with the warranty, just a pain.

    Good luck with your decision.
  • cmr530icmr530i Posts: 278
    From the articles that you have read, I understand that the new 5's with sport package come with the run-flats. If one requested, can the car be ordered with regular performance tires with the SP? Or is there no choice in the matter? Would the wheel mounted pressure gauge work with a substitute tire? [I must admit that in my 26 years of driving I have only had a few slow leaks, never a blow out, and only witnessed one blow out on another car which happened to be a 3 series which handled it very well in the fast lane of the San Diego FWY!]
  • riezriez Posts: 2,361
    cmr530i... I don't know. I hope one can. But I doubt it.

    Guessin' here in America we'll be stuck with whatever comes with the Sport Pkg, so that (at least initially) if you get Sport Pkg, you'll get only run flats and if you want somethin' else, you'll have to buy it yourself aftermarket. Think BMW is making a mistake if we can't get non-run-flat high performance tires with Sport Pkg.
  • ndegroatndegroat Posts: 8
    By the price you paid, it was either high miles or you did get a super deal. My temptation is this: the 528 is sitting in the parking lot of our office, which is about 50' from my desk. I park next to it every day (not out of some weird obsession, it's my spot) so I think about it when I come in and when I leave. The asking price is $18,500, but I heard an offer was made for $16,000 and he's holding out to see what else he can get (this why I ask about the shape of your car at purchase time). Ok, I admit, the Car-o-Scope from Car Talk.com told me I was too educated to drive my current vehicle, but too cheap to buy anything. Sadly, the reading was close to dead on. (The reading did tell me the BMW was a good choice mainly b/c high maintenance was not a big issue) I also was holding out to see the Accord, but was less than excited about it, but now would really like something a bit nicer to drive. I currently live in Charleston, WV, but I am originally from New Jersey, so I need a reliable vehicle for the trips.
  • msealsmseals Posts: 257
    I was holding out to see how the new Accord look before I bought my 5er. I did to a background check on the car though. I did a car fax and found that the car had two previous owners, the first a lady who leased the car and turned it in after three years with about 29k miles on it. All scheduled maintenance was done by the dealership in Lansing. The second guy, a lawyer, lived in Novi, bought the car as a CPO and droved to Lansing every day. About a 150 mile round trip. He put 50k miles on the car and had all the maintenance done at the dealership where I go now. The car still has it's CPO warranty on it and so far I have only had to use it once and it wasn't even anything major. I did find out after I bought the car though that it needed an inspection II which hit me for about $500 from an independent BMW Mechanic. But I check that place out to and they are very good. It is an old german guy who use to be a BMW Mechanic in Germany before moving to the US. His labor rate is $65 an hour which beats the dealerships $100 per hour. Parts are about the same, but he doesn't mark them up as high as the dealerhsip and he said if I wanted I could bring in my own parts and he would just charge labor. The only thing is that I still get oil changes done at the dealership at least until the CPO warranty runs out. It is only about $5 more and they wash the car when they are done. But for some reason it takes them like 2 hours!! So far I couldn't have been happier. The car runs perfect and I just got 27.82 mpg on the last tank of gas even though the dealer told me last week that I should have my fuel injectors cleaned for $150. Man, what a great car, I can get almost 28 mpg with clogged fuel injectors. I do need to replace the serpentine belts though and I am debating on where to have them done. The Mechanic said it would be about $150, but Pep Boys said they could do it for $120. Is it worth the extra $30 saved to do it at Pep Boys? I am not sure, I question the quality of the belts that they use, but they did quote me on slightly over an hours labor so I am not sure what to think. I think I will go to my Mechanic in order to build that relationship. Basically the most important thing is to make sure the maintenance was done properly. It think BMW's problems per 100 vehicles is in the top 10 so chances are nothing major will happen if it is maintained properly. OH, make sure it wasn't in an accident as well, Car Fax will tell you that. The value of a car drops dramatically if it has been in an accident, especially luxury brand cars. I am not sure why though because it seems like they are brought back to their tolerances more often than your every day Ford or GM. Plus domestic cars have lower tolerances for fit and finish, so the chances of rattles and creaks happening is greater.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 137,444
    I would not take a BMW to PEP boys to save $30. On the other matter, a fuel injector cleaning is a ripoff, unless you are having driveability problems that suggests a fuel injector problem. I would change the belts ASAP. Thats not something you want to put off, as you can do major damage if you lose the belt while driving.

    regards,
    kyfdx

    Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!

    Edmunds Moderator

  • spfoteyspfotey Posts: 131
  • msealsmseals Posts: 257
    I agree with you, I am so leary about Pep Boys, the only reason I called them was to get comparative prices on the belts themselves. I was thinking about doing this myself. I have replaced belts on previous cars and I read the write up on this DIY and it looked pretty easy. I think if I can't get someone to help me, it seems like it would be easier as a two man job for the upper part of the belt, that I will have my mechanic do it for me.

    You are totally right about the fuel injection cleaning. I was being sarcastic about it but sarcasm is always hard to detect in print. I think that the fuel injection cleaning is a joke. I even asked my mechanic just to see what he would say, and he asked me if I was having stalling problems with the car or jerky acceleration. I told him no other than from my CDV and he just laughed. He said if i wanted, he would take care of that for free the next time I bring the car in, I said bet.

    Mark
  • ndegroatndegroat Posts: 8
    Thanks for all your advice..you have taught me so much in the last two postings..like I never knew that gas mileage was so terribly important..lol. No, I don't have money to burn, I just make sure I am getting a decent milage out of the tank and the car goes when I want it to! Sometimes I feel like such a girl! I put a call into our local dealer and their maintenance fees weren't too bad-we also have a European shop here that deals with cars past their certs that I hear is great to deal with. BTW, I would never trust my next door neighbor's 19 year old kid with my car- same with Pep Boys. Old German guys good, young kids bad.
    Right now I am weighing my options about the purchase; just wish the decision fairy would come a tell me what to do! ha.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 137,444
    regards,
    kyfdx...AKA the decision fairy

    Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!

    Edmunds Moderator

  • msealsmseals Posts: 257
    I hear you about penny pinching, but my parents have bread it in me to save money any chance I get. I don't think they were too happy when I bought my car, even though it was about $6000 under dealer tradin value according to Edmunds. I figure I would keep the car for a year or two, and then sell it. I hate to admit this but I am seriously considering a 325/330Ci as my next car. I am really not use to bigger cars and the only reason I LOVE my 5er is because it drives and handles like a much smaller car.
  • ndegroatndegroat Posts: 8
    I have the rare opportunity to test drive w/o hassles on Thursday. Ultimate Drive for Breast Cancer Research is bringing their cars to our dealer- I am driving the 325xi and a 525i...timing is everything. Anything I should know about the clutch so I don't make a fool of myself?
  • srfastsrfast Posts: 138
    I own a 2003 530i and my sister a 2003 325xi which I've probably driven more than she has. Both are great cars (aren't all BMWs?), but I prefer my 530i. More than adequate power, great handling and looks. Get a 5 series. BTW, BMW clutches are easy to drive.

    Hope this helps...JL
  • riezriez Posts: 2,361
    The old E39 still has sales life in her:

    Make/Model...5/03...5/02...YTD03...YTD02

    BMW 3 Series 6,460 6,498 30,057 27,930
    BMW 5 Series 4,067 3,550 16,894 17,068
    BMW 7 Series 1,973 2,209 8,358 8,888
    BMW M5 227 132 892 818
  • cmr530icmr530i Posts: 278
    Just on personal observation, I am seeing more and more newly purchased 5's (mostly 525's) on a daily basis just in the San Fernando Valley, CA alone. Seems as if people are snatching up all they can while the getting is good. I must admit it is fun to see all the different color combos as well.
  • msealsmseals Posts: 257
    You should be fine with the clutch unless you are coming from the Japanese school of manual driving. I had a Honda Civic Si prior to my 5er and the first time I got in the car for a test drive, I stalled with the owner of the car sitting right next to me. I was so embarrassed since I have always drive a stick and I am not 31 years old. Just remember, be as smooth as possible.

    Mark
  • mch2mch2 Posts: 36
    Thanks to everyone who responded to my question.

    dzuba & karmikan : I am going to take your advice and try to do as much of a side by side comparison as possible. Hopefully that will make the decision easier.
  • srmcgeesrmcgee Posts: 2
    Folks:

    I picked up my 2003 silver 530i about four months ago and now, with the weather only just beginning to clear, am considering waxing my car for the first time. Does anyone have a recommendation for car waxes? I'm not a gearhead and don't anticipate obsessing about my car in general, but do expect to wax it twice a year. I figure I might as well do it right.

    For what it's worth, I live in southeastern Pennsylvania (outside Philly), drive the car regularly and garage it at night.

    Your suggestions are appreciated.

    Regards,
    Scott
  • jb_shinjb_shin Posts: 357
    Based on shipo's recommendation, many of us used Klasse All-in-One and the Sealant(?) which proved to be very easy to use. I used to use the Super Glaze from the Wax Shop, but it did not last much. It does clean your paint quite well, especially the old wax residue. The Klasse is supposed to last 6 to 8 months, and I have used twice and so far no complaints. I also used Meguire's paste wax between "Klasses". Meguire's is also highly recommended and very easy to apply.
  • erickplerickpl Posts: 2,735
    I have the 325xi and love it. I am considering a 5er soon, but I intend to have them both concurrently.

    Deciding between the two can be a tough comparison. Neither one is a bad car, it just depends on your needs and wants.

    I live in the mountains and like the reassurance the xi brings me in adverse weather. If you don't have inclement weather (other than rain and the occasional snow), the xi may not be the best choice. BTW, the sport package on the xi is NOT the typical SP found on other 3er's (missing the stiffer suspension).

    The 5er, in my view, is more of a luxury sport, more than the 3er's sport luxury. It is a VERY capable car, but again, it depends on what you want. You can't go wrong with either. :)

    Good luck with your choice. :)

    You can see my 325xi at:
    http://community.webshots.com/user/skimblz_

    -Paul
  • tbrown12tbrown12 Posts: 18
    I am leaning toward a low mileage 2000 528 sport. A friend then suggested that I look at a 2002 LS8 sport because I could pick one up with lower mileage (10k-15k) and for a lower cost. I have not driven the LS but loved the 528i sport. A 540i is out of range. Looking at 28k or less in price.

    What is your take between those two exact models given they are in my budget? Factor annual maintenance, performance, quality, etc as I plan to keep for awhile- at least to 75k.

    Be honest please.
  • guapingguaping Posts: 6
    srmcgee, I have just waxed my 3-week old 530 using products from www.zainobros.com (there's a discussion in the town hall devoted solely to it). I'd say it's a bit laborious and time consuming (you have to apply several alternating coats), at least for the initial process, but man, you'll be amply rewarded. I think I'm hooked; but then again, that's the anal side of me.
    I also waxed my 5-year old 4Runner using products from www.griotsgarage.com, and it did a great job, too, and less time consuming.
    Hope this helps.
  • riezriez Posts: 2,361
    Coming back from a business trip I pulled my 540i6 into a gas station to fill up and get a car wash. When I pulled out of the car wash there was a guy wiping down his M3. Pulled up to him and recognized him as one of the Service Advisors at my local BMW dealer. We chatted briefly about our cars. He loves his '95 M3. He bought it a year ago from a good customer. Had only 22K miles. I was glad to know he loves cars and drives a slightly older BMW. I'd never thought to ask the Service Advisors what they drive. (Afraid they might be paid poorly.)
  • riezriez Posts: 2,361
    tbrown12... Is the '00 528i Sport an automatic? The LS8 came/comes only in automatic. (The '00-'02 LS6 Sport could be ordered with a 5-speed manual.) I think if you are driving an automatic, both would be enjoyable cars to drive. LS8 slightly roomier inside. Don't forget that the LS8 and Jag S Type share platform. But if you want a manual, 528i more fun to drive.

    You should take both for a thorough test drive. You might also pull out old copies MT, R&T, C&D, etc. to see the old published test reviews and comparison tests.

    Get whichever one meets your needs, fits your budget, and puts the most smiles on your face.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    I recommend Maguires Professional #19 (liquid).

    I have used it on my 1995 Maxima and 2002 Honda S2000 with excellent results. I am in DC, but formerly from PA, so I know your winters well.

    Twice a year should be sufficient. However, the Maguires is so easy and relatively quick, I've been known to sneak in a third wax on a Saturday morning in under two hours start to finish, including washing and vacuuming the insides.
  • msealsmseals Posts: 257
    These are very similar cars on the outside. I have driven a coworkers LS v8 and I don't think the front is as roomy as the 528. I am not sure about the back because I haven't rode in either car in the back seat. I can tell you that everyone who has rode in the back of my car has said it is one of the most comfortable cars because the seats envelop you and hold you in place. I do feel based on my coworkers experience that the LS is not up to the standard of the 5er in terms of fit and finish and reliability. He has had to have his oil pan replaced twice due to leaking among other maintenance things under the hood. He has also had a few recalls but his was the first MY it came out so I am sure Ford has picked up the reliability on the car. One thing I did notice is that they do have very good handling. In my opinion not on par with the 528 but still very good. I personally like the simplicity of the climate control and radio on the 5er rather than the all electronic screen on the LS. To me that is just one more expensive thing that will break later down the road.

    Definitely drive them both, preferably back to back and see what you think.

    Mark
  • ndegroatndegroat Posts: 8
    I too, live in the mountains (and I hate hills!) Ice is always the enemy to me! I was hit on the interstate this winter by another car and it spum me every way except over the bridge (Thank God!)So anyhting alittle more nimble in inclement weather is an investment in teh peace of mind category....It turns out a friend of mine can't take her drive today so, I will be able to drive the Z4 as well. Even though a convertible is not in my purchasing horizon, it will be fun!
    BTW, Decision Fairy, I go to the bank today for my loan on the 528i. Yeah!
  • msealsmseals Posts: 257
    I can't say from experience because I haven't purchase them, but there are several members on this board who swear by winter tires. It only makes sense that a winter tire would be able to go, stop and handle better in the snow than an all season tire and definitely better than a performance tire. That being said, I think there are some really good all season performance tires. I was happy this past winter with my Dunlop Sport A2's but I think I will be purchasing some Continental ContiExtreme's to replace them. They got a better rating in every category on Tirerack.com. And congrats on the 528i, it is not only the best car I have ever owned, it is the best car I have ever driven and I use to be a valet at a ritzy restaraunt in the early 90's. Well, Ok, maybe not the best car I have ever driven. I really liked the Acura NSX and the Nissan 300ZX twin turbo.

    Mark
  • tyresmokertyresmoker Posts: 266
    Just stay away from this if performance is on the short list. The clutch is horrible, I don't care if you are coming from a Prelude or an F350. With an automatic? I have operated better performing lawn equipment.
    A buddy has a 330xi with a stick....reasonable..that clutch though? BMW folks are brainwashed. The thing offers zero feedback & catches about 2 inches from the end of the pedal travel. Not my idea of ultimate driving.
  • srmcgeesrmcgee Posts: 2
    Folks:

    I posted a question a couple of days ago regarding car wax/polish recommendations for my 4 month old silver 2003 530i and, when I picked up the wax at the local auto parts emporium (thanks, by the way, for the advice!) I saw that they had orbital buffers for about $40.

    As previously noted, I'm not a car freak. But this new car is a big investment and I'd like to keep it looking nice. I figure if waxing it is really easy, I'll wax it more often. So here's the question: are orbital buffers (especially the $40 variety) safe to use on my car? Will it make the process faster and easier? Or am I just thinking about accumulating junk (in which case counseling may be in order).

    Your advice is appreciated.

    Regards,
    Scott
  • jb_shinjb_shin Posts: 357
    I have never used it, and only have secondhand story. However, it seems most "affordable" buffers can cause more damage than it does good. Another forum I sometimes read has many users using Porter Cable Orbital Buffer, which supposedly CANNOT burn your paint even if you tried. The only down side is the price, at around $200.

    Personally, the wax/polish I use take no effort at all, so I just didn't bother getting one.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    w/ jb_shin.

    I've heard one or two horror stories about permanant swirl marks, etc. when used improperly. Probably "urban legends", but I'm not taking chances.

    With Maguires #19, my arm works just fine and I can at least feel like I got a little exercise in the process.
  • a10drivera10driver Posts: 8
    The military is shipping me off for at least 5 months. That means my car (2002 525) will be parked at home unused for that time. What do you guys recommend? I have already worked with the dealer to get the oil changed early. Should I arrange to have it driven and started or will it be fine?

    Regards,
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,148
    Hmmm, in the GA community, we "Pickle" engines when they are not going to be used for a while. I seriously doubt that there are Pickling kits for a BMW I6 though. I wonder if the desiccant plugs that replace the spark plugs from an old Contenintal boxer 6 will fit our engines. Not too likely.

    I think if I were in your shoes, I would be inclined to have someone drive it at least 10 miles every other week. That way you can be assured that all of the internal components are washed with oil that is above 212, and that any condensation water has been evaporated out of your engine.

    Back to the GA community for a moment. One of the interesting tidbits of information that the GA folks discovered about synthetic oil is that due to its greater stability under high heat, it does not cause varnish to collect on many non-contact surfaces inside your engine. So this is a bad thing? Actually, yes. For an engine that sees many periods of inactivity, such as your typical Cessna engine, said varnish actually protects against corrosion during those periods of inactivity.

    Another tidbit from the GA community; synthetic oil runs off the internal engine components and back into the sump faster than conventional Dino juice. Unfortunately, oil sitting in the sump ain't doin' nothin' to protect the critical components of the engine. This is why the bulk of GA engines are still running with Dino juice, and the rest run with a Synth mix.

    Back to your car. It has a factory fill (and subsequent dealer fills) of synthetic oil. As such, your engine will be more susceptible to the effects of condensation from the daily cooling/heating cycles. Hence my suggestion for you to arrange for your car to be driven at least bi-weekly.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • tyresmokertyresmoker Posts: 266
    forget the buffer if you never used one. If keeping your freshly leased bucket of bolts all shined up is a priority, spend a few bucks, support the economy and give it to the pros for a few hours.
    Btw...for those wax on wax off ham and eggers, try Zymol, stuff works great. Stick to the directions though.
  • jay108jay108 Posts: 52
    An entertaining writer, never boorish or long winded. Usually has good advise on BMWs.
  • polo2928bpolo2928b Posts: 21
    My 00 528 has about 48000, and the AC works but it increases blowing speed without any reason, and it is not in auto, nor is there any reason, but it goes up and down in blowing speed without explanation, any one had a problem like this?
  • jb_shinjb_shin Posts: 357
    If your fuel tank is not going be cycled through for 2-3 month, I'd put in a bottle of fuel stabilizer with a full tank.
  • fjk57702fjk57702 Posts: 539
    if you are going to leave an engine sit for a period of time, warming it up completely by driving the car for 30 minutes/30 miles will drive most of the moisture out of the oil/crankcase. Then when you park it, it should stay dry. In winter, a longer drive would be better.
  • msealsmseals Posts: 257
    How would condensation not get into the engine if you drive it once for 30 min or 30 miles and then let it sit for 5 months. Isn't the condensation created when the engine cools? Wouldn't the actual change in temperature of the engine be the root cause of the condensation? I am just asking these questions out of curiosity. I have no known knowledge of these things. I am basing it on the minimal bit of science that I do know.

    Mark
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