Lexus LS 400/LS 430

nealm1

Folks, you must read this review. It has the typical "gee, it looks like an S-class" garbage, but otherwise, this guy really gets it.

http://www.rochester.rr.com/carplace/cars/01-lex-ls4/01-lex-ls4.1.shtml

ljflx

Yep - he gets it - at least about 95% so. So do the other guys who review but they hate to write it and look instead for the negatives - plus can you imagine the pressure a German executive, such as the one in the story tries to exert on them (remember that guys call to the writer was when Lexus was an infant not the powerhouse it is today). The guys on the other boards will not be able to handle this review very well (but its the first real honest one I read; the Edmunds one is also pretty decent) nor will they want to understand that MB and probably BMW (though they are less in Lexus' crosshairs) reads every review possible on every Lexus, particularly the LS, GS and probably the LX470 (lot of MB S class owners have LX470's where I live - they use them interchangably with their cars at the sporting events - and its bad to have the competition have that foot in the door). I've never seen a car with that sticker - maybe it didn't have Lexus link. On top of that he had flint350's color.

Whenever I see the cars interior in internet/mag pictures I realize how sorry I'd be if I went Benz and how glad I am that I sit in it nearly every day. That exterior front grill is so much more imposing than MB's which looks more and more mousy to me.

flint350

Darn, there goes a little more of my exclusivity! Now there are at least 3 black cherries that I know of. As for the review, I thought it was very good. It gave Mercedes its due (as is fair), but put the proper perspective on the old "copy cat" myth. Generally fair and balanced, I thought. But then, why wouldn't I think that since it basically mimics all of my own highly reasoned thinking and opinions???

wbwynn

Excellent honest opinion.... everyday the exterior of my LS is drawing more and more positive looks, and I am genuinely growing fond of the styling; in fact, it's an improvement over the S Class and a clear winner over that Q45 (what were those boys thinking?)

This is my first Lexus, but I may have to make room for an LX470 too (like ljflx). By the way every SC430 that hits my local dealer is pre-sold...absolutely none sitting on the lot. Lexus is really on a roll... what recession!

ljflx

Did you test drive it? If you are going that route let me know when and lets price compare for each other - just like 6 months ago. The LX470 is the best large truck out there by far and its just the right size for me. Initially I was getting price quoted with nav around 56k if I remember(it was an 11% discount but I didn't exert any pressure as it was too early. I may ask stevestein to represent me in the negotiations given the deal he cut). I haven't run lease deals
yet because this may be a buy. I love its stately style and Lexus reliability/body build is the best in the world. The NY times reviewed ths SC430 last Sunday and overall gave it an excellent review though they threw in spy shots of BMW and MB future competitive models which are years away. Go figure why a Jewish newspaper loves German cars. Anyway in the review the writer stressed that the SC430 build quality was so good you'd believe it was hand-built if you didn't know any better. As far as I'm concerned you can say the same thing about the LS430.

I agree with you completely on the LS430 looks. The only ones who don't like it are those that didn't/can't buy it or despise Lexus for its infringement on MB's space.

blehrlich

First of all, the Jewish newspaper, German car comment is out of place, inflammatory and racist.

I also disagree with your last comment about the LS430s looks.I could care less about MB's "space". I simply think the LS is ugly and I like the MB better.

ljflx

We are talking amongst Lexus buyers who compared the car to the Benz S. I'm no racist so I take that as very offensive. I couldn't live without the Times and some of my best friends are Jewish. Lets end it here and if you can't take it that Lexus owners love their cars don't bother reading these posts.

blehrlich

You're not a racist, the comment could be construed as such. I love reading all of your comments...I just helped my mother-in-law pick out an LS430...it's gourgeous in that Parchment color.

joehp1

I just ordered my black LS430 with ecru ultra leather and ecru bird's eye maple. It has the custom package - dealer (CT) told me he has not delivered one yet. On boat - due in end of June. Got it for about $3,200 discount. Had one quote for $2,000 off. (I have been a good customer of this dealership, so maybe that is why they could do better!) My dealer only had three on his lot - moving very fast!

I had the original LS400 back in early 1991 and also a SC400. I traded that for a 1997 BMW 540 - great car, poor service. I am looking forward to getting back to the "Lexus experience". When owning the Lexus cars I had nothing but great experiences with 3 different dealerships around the country. The BMW dealership service was poor - but WAS getting better. They used to not have my appointment scheduled when I showed up, 3 hours while I waited for an oil change, etc., etc. I do think I will miss the sound of that engine...but I will get over it real quick when I see the luxury of the LS430!

nealm1

I have no experience w/the 97 5 series, but I don't think you will be missing that growl. As Edmunds' LS 430 Road Test (just posted) attests, when you hit the gas aggressively on your new LS, you will get a very satisfying growl, not to mention a pleasing thrust back into your seat. The hard part -- I can say from experience -- will be laying off the gas during the 1st 1k as recommended in the manual. It will just KILL you.

You are going to love the car. Drive it safely.

jkerrigan2

I have 1200 miles on my LS. There is engine vibration starting at 1100 ram up to 2000 ram. The dealer says they don't notice it and wait for brake in to re-evaluate. This vibration appears to be deep in the engine(not a good sign i.. not easily mixable). Also the front brakes grab upon release. They says Lexus is aware of the problem and the present fix makes the brakes squeal! The steering wheel groans when it repositions upon startup/shutdown. The Lev stereo is the best part of the car.

sfmartin

We have the steering wheel groan on shutdown. None of the other problems. Parking the car in the South Texas sun causes the auto wipers to start working. We'll have these things fixed at the 7500 mile service next week.

nealm1

Boy do I hate to admit this, but I have the groan too. Dealer, of course, couldn't replicate it, so he advised I wait until it is worse/more frequent. It is now. I am taking it in next week and will report the result.

pathdoc

Has anyone heard of any changes for the 2002 model? Any chance of an increase of h.p. from 290?
Thanks

feverhart

Saw a sad sight Thursday, a week ago. South of DC on 95, there was a tow truck headed south with 2 new 430s. They were obviously headed for a dealer since factory wrappings were on the seats. One was on the bed and the second, a black 430, was being towed with front wheels elevated and the back wheels on the gound, rolling. the driver must have thought he was towing a front wheel drive vehicle. Pity the customer that buys that car.

wwest

I have recently discovered that the Canadian LS430 comes standard with an electrically heated windshield. Since this is about my only complaint about the Lexus line, the inability to quickly clear the windshield of condensed moisture, and then keep it clear, I think this might be an ideal solution.

Anyone know why it would be restricted to the Canadian market? Are their automotive safety laws, with regard to visibility impairment by windshield condensation, more strict than ours?

bitkahuna

It's cold as the arctic in Canada - that's why they get a heated windshield.

ljflx

I don't hear any such groan. The only noise I hear on shutdown or key entry is the mirrors folding/unfolding. Are you sure the sound is coming from the wheel and not the mirrors?

Bitkahuna - like you I hope we don't go back into the windshield thing. By the way I got my Motor Trend yesterday. They made sure they used an MB S-430 Sport(if I remember right Car & Driver used a $96k S-500 sport or amg when they did the test), not the base car in their luxury test. Interesting! I know a lot about the information business (actually looked into JD Powers for my company a few years back) and if an info based company tried to sell such weighted information they'd be thrown out of the potential clients office for fraud but these guys have no problems selling such nonsense. They also mention in the summary that the LS430 offers features that the others haven't dreamed of. Now that's even more telling. I thought MB was the leader here but maybe I have to reconsider. On the other hand thats one of the reasons I took the car.

bitkahuna

Go to Mercedes OWN web site, and bring up the S-430 and do the comparison on site against the LS430. This uses another site to do the comparison, which is very fair of Mercedes, but boy does it make them look bad.

The only area they come out ahead is more air bags I think.

flint350

Well, I read the Motor "trend" comparo and while they seem to call most things fairly as they go along, their final conclusion is just not to be believed. And I don't mean just bcz they pick the S500 over the LS430. They damn themselves with their own words. They give the Lexus more A+ and other high ratings than any of the others. They basically admit it is a much better value with better features, trunk, quiet and ride quality. Then they conclude by saying, basically, "but ignoring price and features and the other qualities we liked" we still pick the Benz because of its "road presence" and luxury appeal (or some such gobbledygook). While I've never been a great fan of MT mag., this put me off them completely. They basically show no journalistic integrity after rating a vehicle better in nearly all ways, then just going ahead and picking the one they secretly wanted to win all along. Why even call it a true comparison if you ignore your own results? It's kind of like saying "2+3+4+5=14, but we like 13 better, so 13 is declared the winner!" As my subject line implies, they should just go ahead and rename the useless magazine to better reflect their true allegiance. God that pissed me off!

flint350

Like ljflx, I have not heard the "groan" either, just the folding mirrors. What do you do to hear the noise? - i.e. windows down, all else steady, and just shut down the engine, followed by an external groaning? NOt that I want to hear it, I'm just curious as to what it might be.
By the way, I assume most of you have received your service notice on the Lexus Link. I have yet to call for an appt. but was wondering if anyone has had it done and what it entails. My notice said it could take nearly 3 hours to fix.

flint350

Any more word on the phone fix? I've heard nothing so far. And now, with my Valentine ONe plugged in, it is getting a little cluttered around the power outlets.
ljflx, don't you just know the Motor Trend article will have them frothing at the mouth on the High End boards. I saw your post (I posted as well), maybe we need to stir them up some more. Things must have gotten ugly over there again and this time the Hosts shut it down for a while. I was a little stunned that someone over there described you the way he did, but that was the kind of thing that drove most of us out in the first place and why I had that disagreement with the Host earlier about REAL name-calling. Sorry that happened to you, but just consider the source.

ljflx

Thanks - I'll give it a shot. No question in my mind that the LS430 bests the S-500 let alone the S-430 so I'm not surprised. By the way I love the GS430 as well. When I was evaluating cars because my company asked me to take a three year assignment (which I may want to make permanent) and I suddenly needed a third car I looked at several cars including the GS models. The GS300 was an excellent car but after you get used to the power of an LS430 the lack of it in the 300 is hard to get used to. Then I tried the 430 and found it awesome. Great ride, also very quiet and fantastic handling. Saw a silver with black interior in the showroom and almost took it on the spot it was so beautiful. Why did I not do it? I need to drive the car pretty far each day and was hesitant about using it on bad weather days. I was also afraid I'd burn through the tires rather quickly. I turned to my sales guy on that day and said can't you do anything on another LS430, and he offered a $2,500 discount (unheard of at the time) so I went with it after about a week of thinking it over. That SC430 though would be almost impossible for me to resist if I was in the same situation today because it's so new and fresh.

By the way the LS430 has plenty of soul. Go drive it when you bring your car in for service and see. Drive your car well - its a fabulous car. Time to watch the basketball game. Philly's doing good again - so far.

ljflx

How good is that valentine one and what does it cost? I'm seeing way too many troupers on the turnpike now that summer is here and traffic is lightning up. It's hard keeping your speed under 75mph in this thing. I've got to do something with all that money I saved from a Benz deal. I saw on Yahoo a 32'' Sony xbr 450 (I've got a 36'' xbr 400 in my family room that my wife is watching - that was my first 6 months of savings) for $1,675 (vs. nearly $2,000 in the stores for the old model) that I'm about to spring for. I'm sitting in my den watching the basketball game on a 10 year old Sony instead of that gorgeous set. By the way the Sopranos is spectacular in Hi-Def.

The motor trend review is a joke. Can you imagine that they said the S was a good value even with less HP than an LS430 and yet it costs $18k more. On top of that the LS430, according to the author - not me, has things in it that the others (S-430 included) can only dream of. Someone should edit these articles for common sense before they get published. Of course if they didn't say it was a good value it would have come in second.

Boy these Laker fans must be in a state of shock. Philly can actually go up 2-0 but I wouldn't bet the car on it. Have a good week-end. I'm taking a break from this stuff. By the way glad to have you and wbwynn as cyber-friends. You guys are great.

bitkahuna

Valentine - it's a good detector, but I dislike two things about it. 1) Mike Valentine hasn't changed the physical design since it came out, which is a joke. It could probably be half the weight/size by now. And 2) I like the customizing cabilities on my Passport 7500 (now superceded by the 8500) to do things like turn off X-band detection entirely (too annoying in urban and suburban areas), AND the ability to turn off power-up noises - why would we want whoops and chirps on power up in our quiet Lexus vehicles!?

Sony TV's - are those models you mentioned widescreen? I have a Pioneer Elite widescreen projection TV - the picture is amazing. With that and the surround sound I have little need to go to the movie theater!

You mentioned you're watching HBO/Sopranos in Hi-Def - what decoder/service do you use?

On the MT review... high end car reviews can't be completely objective, there's always an emotional component so don't expect them to always be rational. Having said that, the car mags will continue to worship BMW and Mercedes - those brands have been built over many decades and aren't about to give up to Lexus or Infiniti.

From what I read about the new 7 series by the way, it will be a winner.

aloog8

My steering wheel groaned for the first time yesterday (bought the car Feb 2001). It wasn't the mirrors - the sound came from the steering column as it elevated after the key was removed.

I haven't been notified about a Lexus Link recall. Flint30's message is the first I've heard of it.

To sfmartin: My wipers also turn on automatically during the Summer when it's sunny outside. According to the Owner's Manual, this is normal (see page 29, right column). Let us know if the dealer has a fix for this.

ljflx

They are 4x3's but automatically adjust to widescreen when it detects such a broadcast. You'll have to put up with the black bars above and below the pix when a 16x9 is broadcast but in effect the pix adjusts to the size a widescren tv would have been so you are not sacrificing any picture size. I use Dish network and have a 6000 decoder box. The pix is so amazingly clear on this set that I've had people think the basic TV shows are in hi-def. When I switch over to hi-def there reaction is like yours - they think they are in the movies. Dish also sells a hook in adapter if you want to put up a separate hi-def antenna for local shows. In a hurry now but let me know if you want more data. I've heard the xbr450 is even better than my xbr400. Go to home thaetre on yahoo - if you are in NY area the delivery is $100 or less. Talk to you later

mbaudibest1

hi

does anyone have pics of the dashboard of the LS430 without the nav screen? i dont know if that's available or not but i thought the nav was optional. i was just curious what the dash looks like without one. i saw that black cherry color few days ago, it reminds me of the almandine black MB has. impressive car, though i still prefer the audi A8L. definitely a second choice.

redsilverado

you've got to be kidding....LOL

pat

Subtitled "Resplendency", Edmunds.com editor Liz Kim's Road Test of the LS 430 can be found by following the link in the Additional Resources box on the left sidebar of this page.

Let us know what you think.

Pat
Host
Sedans and Women's Auto Center Message Boards

ljflx

Sorry - I meant the World of Theatre on Yahoo electronic shopping. There's enough Hi-Def among HBO, Showtime, a ppv channel on Dish Network and CBS (every night in prime-time and just about all of its sports - which is awesome in hd) and sporadically on the other nets to justify hdtv purchases now. The dish 6000 costs $450-499 (much less if you are a first time subscriber) and the local broadcast adapter is $129-149 (I got it for $99 during a special promo). I will eventually get a big screen 16x9 or a Plasma set for my study but its too early for the latter and that technology will get better as it gets cheaper anyway.

MT doesn't bother me at all because all it's used for is bragging rights but it is so obvious that they chose the LS430 ultralux instead of the euro so that the value gain for Lexus was tempered and at the same time the handling on the euro (which if you read the review nealm1 put up matches an S or BMW 7)which would have scored higher is bypassed. So they use the more expensive Lexus to defeat itself even though the S has a 27% premium pricetag. That's the joke. Actually if you read between the lines as flint350 did it seemed the LS was the winner but they may be afraid to make such an admission for fear of losing MB ads. Did you catch the reviewers line in Nealm1's post as to how quickly the MB exec called him? Anyway the pre-disposed outcome which is made so obvious by the car selections is what is insulting and bothersome to any intelligent reader. I'd hardly be proud of that review had I chose an MB base S-430 or S-500. I'd be left with the obvious conclusion that only the sport version was capable of winning - barely. I'm gone rest of weekend - let me know if you want anything more on tv's. By the way check out cnet if you haven't as yet.

bitkahuna

Way off topic, but fun anyway...

No way you can convince me a 4:3 tube is that great with widescreen material. You have an S-430 TV and I have the LS430 here :-)

A 36" 4x3 tv tube is roughly 27"W x 21"H.
A 16x9 image on that screen (visual image, not including black bars) is 27"W x 15"H (405" sq.).

If you had a 36" wide screen (16x9) tube, that would be 32" x 17" or 544" sq. for a 34% bigger image than a widescreen movie on a 4:3 tube.

My 53" 16x9 projection tv is roughly 48"W x 26"H or 1248" sq image on widescreen material. Fun fun fun!

Thanks for the info on Dish! Sounds great... I see there's DirecTV HD too, but somehow I prefer the underdog Dish.

stevestein

I had it too. It's not subtle, it's a loud rub noise definately from the steering column. My service rep said it would go away after the lubricant worked its way fully around the worm gear for the telescoping steering wheel. Haven't heard it in a while.

pakpony

Our Lexus dealer has a 2001 LS 430 that has 600 miles on it. The original owner decided he didn't like the color and returned it. I believe that this is now considered a USED car and the warranty is extended from the original new car warranty. Can anyone tell me the depreciation amount that should be taken off of the sticker? Since the 2001 models are not yet listed as USED, I cannot get a fair price. Thanks

cainep

I had this problem on my 99 LS400 - it would groan when the steering wheel retracted after switching off the engine. On my next service visit, I mentioned it to them and they said there was a fix available (maybe there's a Technical Service Bulletin for this?). A few days later (after a part came in) they fixed it. However, a few months later I started noticing another noise from the steering column - sort of like a softer grinding noise or high frequency vibration when going over certain rough road surfaces. Mentioned it on my next service visit, but they couldn't get it to happen, so were unable to do anything. Will try again next time...

flint350

I like mine. The startup sounds don't bother me, they are usually muted by the annoying "Lexus Link is active" infomercial. The size probably could be smaller, but might have something to do with the amount of electronics/features contained in the box. Remember, there are extra features like the bogey counter and the rearward looking antenna on the Valentine. My biggest problem (and maybe this is size related after all) is a good location. My wife is a big user of the pax side sun visor, so I really need to mount it on the driver side. It is just large enough to not fit above the rear view mirror, so I have it slightly left of that, using the windshield mount. The wiring is relatively simple to hide, though those damn Lexus microfit parts make it a bit of a struggle to insert the wires. I might go with a hard-wire setup (which is provided in the box with the unit, along with a visor mount and extra suction cups - well done). I also have the remote indicator, but haven't decided yet on how to locate it without further cluttering the interior. Unit costs $400 + $40 for the remote.

bitkahuna

Hmmm... given how hot the LS430 is right now you might not do that well, but I'd shoot for invoice price of a new one.

bitkahuna

Don't know if this will work on the LS430 but it works great on my GS400 - I put rubber feet on my Passport 7500 to let it sit level on the LEFT side of the dash (left of the instrument cluster), and I ran the wire down the side of the dash. The feet are held to the dash with tiny velcro pads. It works great. Most passengers don't even know I have a radar detector.

feverhart

As I indicated before, I placed the Valentine to the right of the rain sensor. It does not interfere with the passanger side visor. It will take some manipulation of the detector to position it just right, but it will fit without interference.

hage45

I have 2500 miles on my silver LS430,custom luxury. A great car, but I also have had the steering wheel groan, happens when the wheel is moving up and in. My dealer was aware of the problem and fixed it(I hope) by lubricating the gears. A more serious problem was a broken spot weld or welds in the area of the right rear wheel well. Again, my dealer fixed it and said there is now a tech. service bulletin for this problem. I hope all is now well as my family and I are leaving for a trip to Penn. and then south through Virginia and the Carolina's. It should be a great trip and I couldn't travel in a better car.

flint350

feverhart and bitkahuna, thanks. I'd prefer not to dash mount and will look again at the area next to the rain sensor. I remember that post, but couldn't seem to get mine to fit there as neatly as yours. On another note, I got the remote sensor, but it's dead. Unless I'm doing something wrong, I can't get it to power up at all. I know the wires are good and the detector works, but not the remote. I'll call Valentine's 800# on Monday. Thanks again.

jarogj

I too had the creaking around the rear wheelhouses of the LS430. The technician at Lexus apprised me of the TSB and fixed it promptly. Has anyone experienced a groan from the braking system? When I make a stop and then creep ahead a little bit and brake again I sometimes hear a groan on the left front side. The dealer says it is the abs pump reloading and the LS and GS both do it. I guess I just accepted that. It's one of those intermittent things but it is annoying. Apparently the abs and master cylinder or something were changed this year to an all in one unit and this is one of the by products from it.

carnaught

Bought one today....luxury pckge., white/ecru, chromes, window tint and gold badges...picking it up Thurs. the 14th...can't wait!

chem123

Yes, my father's LS430 also had the same problem. To say the least, it stumped Lexus--but only for a bit. Flustered at first, they called in a master technician who also did not have a solution. Therefore, another, brand-new LS430 (exactly the same) was promised in six weeks time. This one arrived and the exchange was made...but the same problem still surfaced. This time, they had a fix and promptly returned the car. I guess no car can be truly bug-free in the debut year, but I still applaud Lexus' customer service.

ljflx

wbwynn - I got a 59,975 price on the LX470 with ml/nav and 56,195 without. I need to do something before the beginning of August. This truck has a great ride, is real quiet and is ideal for leasing (for me) as I will only put about 10-12k miles per year on it. But I don't want to lease trucks every 3 years so I may buy it unless lease and buy at lease-end are close. Black, cashmere (probably) or the ivory white are my favorites.

the GROAN - I've not experienced this groan at all, hope I don't but as I understand from the posts it only seems to happen at start-up and shut-off. Interested to know the solutions in case it happens but if I read stevestein's post correctly it's a problem that should occur when the car is first driven or just after and then subside. I didn't notice it in any of the demos I drove earlier this year either.

bitkahuna - watched part of Gladiator in HD last night (great movie for HD) and your post made me get out my tape measure (nut that I am). It measured 29x17 in sdtv and 29x16 in hdtv. Before I pluck down $1,695 on the Sony I've got one question for you. Does a 16x9 aspect ratio set (btw a custom built cabinet with measurements too small kept me away from your type of set) display a 4x3 broadcast without distortion ala the way you would see it on a 4x3 set? Let me know. Thanks

feverhart

flint350, if you have a problem installing your Valentine and would like to see how I set it up, give me a call if you expect to be in the Columbia area. My phone number is in the Baltimore directory.
Fred Everhart

flint350

Hey, thanks. I didn't know you were so close! Actually, I'd like to see it. In attempting to "modify" the visor mount, I eventually shortened it too much and finally destroyed it. You'd think, being a pilot, I'd have some tech skills, but you'd be wrong. Anyway, it is currently mounted a couple of inches rt. of the rain sensor using the windshield mount and it abuts the windshield slightly, requiring a lower position. It only interferes with the visor in that, when the visor is down, the rear antenna is blocked. If you can give me a good idea when you might be available during the week (in general), I'd like to come over and see it. I'm basically free anytime and live in Crofton. Thurs. a.m. I'm taking the LS430 to Lexus of Annapolis for the Lexus Link fix and will have a loaner that day. Let me know your upcoming availability and we can get together. I really appreciate it. Ray

ljflx

Passport 8500 - easy to install?

feverhart

Ray, actually Thursday PM or Monday PM (after 3 PM) are good times for me. Now you'd think being retired I'd have alot more time on my hands, but the opposite is true.

Give me a call, when convenient.
Fred

nofeer

About to take my ls in to check the lexus link as per recall letter, what does it involve i made an appointment this friday, hope it's not a long service. anyone have this done yet?