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Lexus LS 400/LS 430

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Comments

  • flint350flint350 Posts: 250
    To me, the biggest mistake Lexus made so far, is limiting the Ultra Lux with light leather to only the grey-ecru wood. That combination is far too limiting - to get the laser cruise, parking assist, air susp, etc. you must get ultra. And if you get ultra, you must get grey wood unless you can live with black leather. I agree with nofeer, this is far too limiting. They advertised that this year would see a greater variety in option combos, but it seems to me, there are many more restrictions. Of course, if you can wait until Spring, it is supposed to get better, with more of the options available in separate combos. I imagine it all has to do with just how much they can produce early on and satisfy most tastes. A simple marketing "best guess". In my case, at least, they didn't guess all that well. My wife (and myself to a lesser extent) really don't want/like black or bordeaux leather - so we are forced into the grey wood bcz that is the ONLY offer in the ultra with ivory leather.
  • enigmaoneenigmaone Posts: 128
    The reason Lexus is waiting until spring to release sonar parking is probably because of production problems. There could be several problems: Parts aren't as readily available at this moment, or they are slowly ramping up some options to keep quality up.
  • What is this? Another advertised option not available till later? I thought the sonar parking assist was included in the Ultra Lux package? Are you telling us that this is not the case? Sheesh.
  • enigmaoneenigmaone Posts: 128
    rennybosch,

    Sorry, I got Lexus Link confused with sonar in nofeer's post.
  • edspider1edspider1 Posts: 195
    There seems to be some folks on this board who think the "options" are too limiting. I must disagree. I think they did pretty well, especially when the custom luxury package comes out. If you want Sonar, or laser cruise it should be part of a package. MB does the same. At my dealer ship, most buyers deep down want the UL and only say they'll like to loose some options. I agree heartily with the major mistake Lexus made:

    Just two interior colors and both with kind of wierd woods. Give me grey with a wood that looks like wood.
  • edspider1edspider1 Posts: 195
    There seems to be some folks on this board who think the "options" are too limiting. I must disagree. I think they did pretty well, especially when the custom luxury package comes out. If you want Sonar, or laser cruise it should be part of a package. MB does the same. At my dealer ship, most buyers deep down want the UL and only say they'll like to loose some options. I agree heartily with the major mistake Lexus made:

    Just two interior colors and both with kind of wierd woods. Give me grey with a wood that looks like wood.
  • flint350flint350 Posts: 250
    IMHO, the problem with the options packages are the required, and therefore, limiting, combinations - not the options themselves. Yes, I am one of those who prefers the Ultra pkg, BUT, the forced wood color is way too limiting. And, if you want any of the big options like laser cruise, air suspension, etc. - you must get the Ultra with all that back seat stuff that most American drivers don't want. At least until next year when they may offer the Custom Lux pkg. That package sounds more like it to me. To sum up, I think the range of total options is truly wonderful - just object to the limiting combos and horrid wood choice in the ultra. Why can't you get one of the more natural looking woods if that is what you want? The advertising theory 1st put out by Lexus was to make more individual choice available. In the Ultra, I believe they have done exactly the opposite. Don't misunderstand me though, I love the car but just wouldn't be normal if I didn't think I could offer "improvements" or changes to my personal tastes and desires.
  • nofeernofeer Posts: 381
    My point is that why have to wait so long to get options most want. for example custom luxury with your choice of wood--a no brainer, and easy to produce. I agree, i don't mind them packaging options in groups but let us have the groups. I WANT A NEW CAR SOON NOT NEXT SPRING. Gee should i then consider the new Q since it's coming out this spring too. Customer care means caring for the customer. Now if these option packs are available shortly after the first of the year ok but i am somewhat miffed that i have to wait until spring (wwheneve that is) AND I AM GOING TO TELL MY SALESMEN THIS EXACT THING. EXCITEMENT HAS BEEN DULLED TO FRUSTRATION!!!
  • pathdocpathdoc Posts: 126
    I drove a LS 430 this weekend and looked at several color combinations. Overall I liked the car very much and am considering one either to replace my MB 500sel (93) or my Jag. XK8(98). My only concern is the ecru "wood". I live in the desert and want a light colored leather interior but don't care for the ecru "wood" as it doesn't look like wood and to me does not contrast?complement the ecru leather interior. Does anyone know if other optios will be offered next year? I would be interested in the other features of the ultra luxury package but don't want the ecru.
    My only other complaint is a lack of wheel mounted shift capability since I like to have some interaction with the transmission even with an auto. The same complaint applies to the older MBs although the new models have this feature.
  • nofeernofeer Posts: 381
    I agree with you, the ecru wood looks fake and like formica, i took myself off that car and am considering other options. I can't get a straight answer about the custom luxury package. does it come with only ecru wood?. do you have other wood options, if not then i'll just go with nav/lev package+lexus link--told can't get euro suspension with the above list until "spring"--is this a 2001 introduction or a spring intro, it's irritating. somewhat disappointed that you can't add the sonar parking unless its the ultra lux pack (custom lux maybe). We were supposed to get "more options" "more individualism" in the cars we choose, but "wait till spring" doesn't cut it.
  • I don't understand what you mean by "wheel
    mounted shift capability". Do you mean a shift lever that is mounted on the steering wheel column, instead of the one on the floor? If so, how does that give you more control? My '99 MB E320 just has the floor shift, no shift capability on the steering wheel column that I am aware of. Let me know what I'm missing.

    Regards, Renny
  • bitkahunabitkahuna Posts: 206
    No, he means 'e-shift' type buttons, like a Porsche, Ferrari, or my GS400 (the GS430 no longer has it, but now the GS300 does).

    The shift lever can be moved to a 'manual' position which then lets you select the maximum gear via up/down buttons on the steering wheel (or paddles behind in some cases).
  • edspider1edspider1 Posts: 195
    I took delivery yesterday and discovered my LS came with 17" summer tires. The brochure states this option give better handling at the expense of road noise and ride cushioning. I'm feeling really devastated as I bought the car because I wanted the smoothest and quietest possible ride.

    Am I overly concerned? What will switching to the standard wheels cost?
  • pathdocpathdoc Posts: 126
    I am referring to the wheel mounted buttons that allow you to shift "manually" . It is more user friendly than the Lexus(or MB) stick. The S class Mercedes now has it and the Lexus GS class has (or had) it.
  • Take it back and request the wheels be swapped, they'll do it.
  • edspider1edspider1 Posts: 195
    They offered to swap them with those of a "new" 2000 LS 400. They don't have any stock wheels since all 430s are coming in with 17" wheels. Do you think this is a good idea? I'm having second thoughts about whether I'm going to mess up the suspension since the car may have been built for 17" rims.
  • flint350flint350 Posts: 250
    Inside Lexus has updated their page. Not much on the LS430 BUT there is a very nice video on the LS430. It's worth the download, even if you don't have dsl.
    I saw a gorgeous black cherry LS430 today. Wasn't
    sure I was going to like that color from the brochure, but it was stunning with the ivory interior and maple wood.
  • The new LS430 video on this site is the most comprehensive to date. Check it out at:

    www.insidelexus.com/passion

    Nice pix of new SC also.

    Thanks Flint!
  • If your LS400 has leaked power steering fluid ( if
    you can see the oil spot in your garage or have to
    refill the fluid often) , have the booster replace
    ASAP before the power steering fluid damages your
    alternator.
    I have replaced two alternators in mine and
    finally was informed by the mechanic that it was
    caused by the power steering fluid get into the
    alternator.
    The cost for replacing the booster is under 200 at
    the independent garage. I don't know how much
    Lexus will charge.
    Speaking about the charge, if your car out of
    warrantee, have it serviced at an independent
    mechanic especially for tune up, water pump, timing
    belt or alike, you'll save half of the cost.
    Good luck
  • I was thinking of swapping the wheels for current LS400 wheels as well. The wheels from the Platinum edition might look good.
  • If you swap 17" wheels for 16" wheels it may throw your speedometer off a little. It depends on the tire size. Don't know if they can correct the speedometer or will have to replace it.
  • enigmaoneenigmaone Posts: 128
    swithrow2,

    The Platinum edition wheels are nice.

    Swaping 17" with 16" wheels on a LS430 will not throw the speedo off. The speedo's come configured the same whether you have 16" or 17" wheels. As long as you use the +1, +2, etc. concept you are fine.
  • merckxmerckx Posts: 565
    It appears there are two 17" wheels.The ones with the sport suspension are said to be much lower milage due to the soft compound to aid handling.There are some other 17"wheels mentioned in the options list.As they have the same speed rating as the standard 16"ers,I assume milage will be the same.True?I hope so;I attended a recption last night-I really fell in love with the car.The 17" wheels are beautiful,much nicer than the standard ones.Is anyone else bothered by the excessive wood inside,though?
  • edspider1edspider1 Posts: 195
    merckx: You hit it on the head. I've learned the tire compound has more to do with how the tire affects the ride than the 1" size difference. The 17" non sport tires are H rated, but they are "summer" tires so their tread life is 20,000 max. Don't sweat it, though. Michelin MX4s are great all season tires made for ride comfort and low noise. They're rated for 50,000 miles and cost only $142/ea at NTB.

    I'm not bothered by the wood at all, but like so many others. I hate the grey wood so I went with the black interior. I'm very pleased. The black is really a blue/black. Aniline means "dyed with indigo". The wood and leather go very well together. Just avoid looking at it in direct sunlight. The wood looks bright purple.

    I went to a reception last Thursday night and fell in love, too. I went in on Saturday to put up my deposit and begin the wait. Turned out someone who's silver/black car was arriving monday canceled his order. I grabbed it and love it.
  • If you want the smoothest ride possible, take the dealer up on offer to switch to MY2000 16". There is no difference in any suspension components. You'll also save $ on replacing tires (16" are less expensive and will last longer).
  • aloog8aloog8 Posts: 11
    Local dealer says that black and Bordeaux interiors will not be available for the LS 430 Ultra Luxury package after December. That's OK if you like Ecru. However for me, it's a deal-killer. Can anyone confirm this bad news on interior colors?

    Lexus seems to be taking a lesson from Henry Ford, who said you can have any body color - as long as it's black.
  • Rob8,
    What has happened was one day the alternator just went dead so I bought a "new" reconditioned one at Lexus dealer and have it replaced by an independent mechanic. The whole thing cost me almost 600 bucks ( 480 for the alt and 100 bucks for labor). This mechanic didn't know about the power steering fluid can destroy the alt.
    Little more than a year later, my alt died again. I took the car to another mechanic and this guy pointed out the power steering fluid problem. He replace the alt and replaced the pump ( I guess resealed one ) for 400 bucks.
    it has been almost two years and 60K passed and there's no sight of leaking fluid. I'm watching it. The car has 180K and still runs great except for the LCD leaking problem that I am sure most of 90-93 LS owner already known about. I just leave the LCD alone though I can replace it for around 400 bucks.
  • nofeernofeer Posts: 381
    As you know i didn't take the ultalux with my name on it because of the ugly grey "wood". Couldn't get eurotuned suspension with lexus link and nav till "spring" ordered
    white--birdeye maple--nav/lev-lexus link--ecru standard leather. I couldn't get availablity of the
    custom luxury package so i went with this one.
    It's supposed to be "the most customizable lexus" but that ls430 is due "spring" or next year.
    will keep you up to date. hope not waiting for the eurotuned susp won't make me jealous. the base suspension should be fine. But none are available to test, and i don't think any reviews included standard suspension evaluation. if there has let me know. Is the new ls430 air suspension better than the old one? maybe the base is better than last year. any suggestions? hopefully it won't take long to get.
  • pathdocpathdoc Posts: 126
    As I mentioned in a previous posting I also consider the ecru interior unacceptable. Since I live in a desert community the dark colors aren't an option. If the comments on this board are any indication, I would think that Lexus will have to do a quick reevaluation of this combination. There are too many other options available with other manufacturers. Since there are quite a few warm climates where light colored interiors are preferred to do otherwise would dramatically hurt sales.
  • nofeernofeer Posts: 381
    I hope so. i think they are missing the boat as to availability of options. just a littel snag and MB and BMW can reap those 3-5 year leases with agressive rates and take some of ls430 thunder. They say that the s 430 is the competition, it has light wood, the s500 darker wood, both come standard with "MB link" and nav. THey need to reevaluate the options availability.
    I was ready to sign 3 year lease for the ultra lux, now i ordered a much less expensive (less profitable car for lexus) so in essence they "lost"a 10k sale because their most luxurious model only comes with 2 different woods, only one option if you get the light interior, which was a very popular choice. From salesmen they say they can get 2k more on used ls400 if its the light exterior and interior. what was lexus thinking? That the same people that bought all those white, cream, maple ls400 are going to change their tastes?
    I don't think so. it's a big mistake.
    also, instead of these boards talking about happy customer singing the praises of ls430 you get grumbling, which is completely in their control. poor choices on a vehicle that was to have many.
  • scongroscongro Posts: 80
    21k is 21k!!!!


    Yes Sir!!!!
  • Does anyone know if Lexus is ever going to post or make available wallpapers(Like Mercedes has)?
  • aimanaiman Posts: 61
    I've been hoping they'd offer free wallpaper and screen savers.
  • pathdocpathdoc Posts: 126
    Has anyone compared the lease rates for the LS 430 versus the Mercedes S500 or S430? While the LS is clearly the better buy if the residual on the Mercedes is significantly higher the lease may be lower. Any firm numbers available?
  • edspider1edspider1 Posts: 195
    I'm hearing "challenged". I'm curious to know what the hearing world thinks of the M/L stereo. Is is the Best or just very good?
  • flint350flint350 Posts: 250
    Boy, this ecru thing is really getting a life of its own. Went to the reception last night, but of the 3 cars shown, none had the ecru interior. Enjoyed the champagne, food and free video, etc, but was hoping to see an ecru. Want to buy a blue
    onyx or black cherry ultra with ecru leather, but am concerned about the wood. The greyish wood may
    actually look good combined with dark blue or black cherry, but will wait and see. If we don't like it, I don't know what I'll do bcz I absolutely don't want dark leather and dark wood together. Saw that, didn't like it.
    Only other problem is the tire selection. The ultra comes with 17" summer and I, like many, want all season or winter.
    Supposed to get a test drive in the next couple of days, but with standard susp., not air.
  • Wow! A Lexus dealer (Hoy-Fox Lexus in El Paso, TX) trying to auction off an LS430 to the highest bidder! I hope Lexus pulls his franchise.
  • ejerodejerod Posts: 86
    I went to the Lexus reception too. The two LS430's they had were black interior, one with the Walnut the other with a lighter wood. Both interiors were gorgeous. I like the photos I've seen of the Ecru, but I'm like the guy that was with the first guy to ever eat a raw oyster.. egging him on and saying " you first"..lol. I was 90% sure I was going to buy the S500, but when I saw the LS430 interior up close and personal, and I can get everything I want including the heated and a'c rear seats with the ultra Lux package, the Laser Cruise control , power door and trunk closers, parking assists, and the kitchen sink with dishwashing liquid thrown in for under 70K, the boys in Germany didn't look so good to me anymore...Ordering my LS next week.. sorry Daimler.. get control of your socialist economy and compete for pete's sake.. The S500 with these options tops out at 99750. Even Ray Charles can see that's nearly a 30 grand difference !!! If it were 5 or 10, I'd go with the MB but for 30k I'll go to Japan and marry the CEO of Toyota's daughter!!! Lexus does it again..
  • Just ordered my Silver with Black analine leather Ultra today. I consider myself somewhat of a "car nut" and can honestly say I have never driven an automobile like this before. It is a technological tour de force and makes anything Mercedes and BMW puts out pale by comparison. After ordering the car I went to my local MB dealer and looked at the various 430's and 500's in stock and was shocked by both the prices asked (how MB can ask someone spending 71K on a 430 to spend an extra $1100.00 for Xenon lights amazes me!)and the highly suspect fit and finish offered. MB interiors are a joke (A Volkswagen Passat's interior is superior to an S500's) and their dealers have major attitude problems. The 7-series BMW is very nice but it is scheduled for replacement in less than 1 year.

    This is my first Lexus and the deal went smoothly. I asked for a discount and was offered $3000.00 off list which, all things considered, I viewed as quite fair. I anticipate many happy years of driving this car and can only shake my head in disbelief at those who think an MB can hold a candle to this car.
  • flint350flint350 Posts: 250
    I must admit surprise that you (noangerdoc)got a $3K discount. Every other report I've heard says all dealers are insisting on full list and getting it. Maybe I could benefit from your "no anger" counseling when I face my dealer and he says "full price". :) Or, I suppose I could drive down to TN. By the way, what delivery time
    did they say to expect?
  • enigmaoneenigmaone Posts: 128
    Yeah, I wanna know also how you got $3K off and when and how long the waiting list is?

    2 dealers in my area(NJ) have waiting lists until March and April of 2001 currently. And both dealers are getting 10 to 15 LS430's a month by winter.
  • ardoardo Posts: 4
    In my area our waiting list is about 100 names long. When the dealer gets a 430 he calls the first person on the list. I just happened to call the dealer on Saturday and may have a 430 next week. There is a black with black coming available and no one on the list wants that specific combination. Since I do not care, I may have a 430 very soon. Does anyone have any opinions on the black with black 430?
  • nofeernofeer Posts: 381
    I am frustrated--lexus i hope you read these boards
    I have waited 14 months for a ls430. the ecru wood looks like plastic. trying to order some simple things, nav/lev-lexus link, isn't possible as per my elite dealer. Why oh Why did lexus abandon us...why oh why has lexus dropped what worked. namely the most popular color historically has been white with light interior and that classic "lexus maple" why oh why didn't they keep things simple. THis is supposed to be a classic luxury car. others have it, i would think the following a minimum for this class of lux vehicle Leather--wood-nav, safety including "on star, mayday, lexus link" They could have done the following--two models ultra lux and base with nav/wood/lexus link. this has been a very frustrating time for me.
    My MB dealer is 3 miles down the road with an s430 at 66% residual and 120miles is my elite lexus dealer. I'm going to call lexus customer service and complain. how come so difficult to get something of what i wanted. Why did lexus think that traditional lux car buyers would like the non traditional wood--no other lux car has a non-wood looking wood.

    sorry for the above, every turn i get a brick wall. no euro tuned with lexus link, no this no that this might change my mind.
  • edspider1edspider1 Posts: 195
    Hey Flint350, I felt just as you do. Did not want a black interior. I converted. The grey wood is really ugly. I quickly came to love the black interior. You see its not black. Its kind of blue black. Aniline means stainged with Indigo. If gives the leather a very rich color which looks very elegant with the reddish birdseye maple. You need to get over this because the ecru grey will never ever look acceptable.

    I paid list and really doubt anyone is giving a 3K discount.

    Noangerdoc: I was also just about to buy an S430 and put it on hold until the LS 430 arrived. It was no contest. The MB dealer kept his head in the sand. They should be discounting the S Class big time. Lexus did indeed, do it again. Mine is silver w/aniline black. Goes very well. You're going to love it. BTW. I was very lucky. I went in last SAT to get on the waiting list for next year. Some poor slob cancelled his silver black scheduled to arrive the next day. So I only had to wait 1 day to get mine.
  • edspider1edspider1 Posts: 195
    Hey Flint350, I felt just as you do. Did not want a black interior. I converted. The grey wood is really ugly. I quickly came to love the black interior. You see its not black. Its kind of blue black. Aniline means stainged with Indigo. If gives the leather a very rich color which looks very elegant with the reddish birdseye maple. You need to get over this because the ecru grey will never ever look acceptable.

    I paid list and really doubt anyone is giving a 3K discount.

    Noangerdoc: I was also just about to buy an S430 and put it on hold until the LS 430 arrived. It was no contest. The MB dealer kept his head in the sand. They should be discounting the S Class big time. Lexus did indeed, do it again. Mine is silver w/aniline black. Goes very well. You're going to love it. BTW. I was very lucky. I went in last SAT to get on the waiting list for next year. Some poor slob cancelled his silver black scheduled to arrive the next day. So I only had to wait 1 day to get mine.
  • I put my name on a list and can have a car black cherry with black now or if another person refuses the black with black I wanted. However, I think I am going to wait. Was originally quoted MSRP but the accidentally left off Aniline leather cost. I found a dealer in California willing to give $2,000 off and I presented the local dealer this and basically got about $1,500 off. I think the demand is not as great as Lexus anticipated and the price will fall dramatically in a couple of months 3-6 at the most. With a markup of nearly $12,000 there is a lot of room to play with.

    Anyway, extensive test drive. Let me preface I currently have a 1998 BMW M3 5-speed. I thought the performance was very good. Acceleration from the start ws good passing on the highway downshifted nice.

    I wasn't impressed with the Mark Levinson stereo, I think it is highly overrated. The Harmon Kardon in my BMW actually sounds better (by the way Mark Levinson is supposed to be the high end of Harmon Kardon). The JBL stereo also sounds almost as good. I never did hear a Nachamichi, But the say the Mark Levinson is better :( I was really unimpressed when I had the Bass, Mid, Treble up all the way and I could understand a person speaking and it was buffeting the sound.

    I liked the Nav system easy to read and to use. I just wish you could orient the map so it showed the direction you were driving as up instead of it always being north. You still have to switch regions, but at least your not inserting in another harddrive or cdrom at additional cost.

    I was also not impressed with the road quietness; there was noise going over bumps. I had heard tomb quiet and I guess I expected more. Controls including heat/cool seat fans were almost noiseless. It is much quieter than my Acura Integra GSR, only slightly quieter than my BMW and 2000 Avalon. Amazing the interior volume of the LS430 is now .5 cubic feet larger than the Avalon. The Avalon is a bargain with less power at half the price. But the Avalon only has heated front memory seats. DSC, traction control, brake assist, trip computer and homelink. The Avalon does have one option that I not seen in any other car a 115 volt outlet for plugging in tvs, game machines, portable PCs, etc.

    The ultra really has great backseat comfort. Besides the center HVAC vents there are two under the seats and two in the ceiling just pass the B pillars. There is a separate compressor for the back airconditioning/ heating so there are actual three zones of temperature control. A backseat passenger can change the audio. And there is even memory setting on both sides for the back seat passengers.

    Wasn't impressed with the dynamic laser control. Just a gimmick. Even on the shortest setting you are still back about 5-6 car lengths and it is easy for someone to cut in front of you. I had trouble setting a speed and then increasing it. The digital speed setting indication was a nice touch.


    Couldn't tell much difference between sport and normal suspension. Power mode on the transmission did seem peppier.


    The sensors around the car are pretty neat when my wife got out of the car to go around and try the back seat it set the sensor off.


    Articulating fron center air vents. Now I have seen everything.



    If my test drive was any indication, by the way I had a long test drive sans salesman, the mileage will be significantly less than the advertised 18/25 Sporty highway and town driving was about 14


    I saw the eru wood in the ultra luxury and although it goes weel with the Ecru leather it looks like polished gray formica. The Bordeaux looks kind of like a purple mahogoney.

    I looked on the dealer's lot today and they had in two that were non ultra lux and the non ultra lux wood looks much much better. One was Crystal white with ivory and Calfornia walnut. It had chrome wheels, which are beautiful, with the euro suspension and the Mark levison stereo. Is MSRP was $59,000. The other was Parchment Crystal with Ecru and Golden Birdseye Maple and was the wood color that I think should have been in the Ultra.

    I think Lexus made a mistake offering only certain combincations for the Ultra Luxury package.

    The price has already gone up on the Ultra Luxury $12,502 (which doesn't include the perforated aniline leather cost) up $300 and up $100 on the Chrome wheels now $1,800

    Good luck , I am going to wait a couple of months. Mark my words the latent demand that Lexus thought existed isn't there and the cost will go down dramatically in the Spring of 2001.

    Excellent car!


    Thanks,

    Bill the M and LS Car Nut
  • In response to #206 The real definition of Aniline:

    A class of synthetic, organic dyes originally obtained from aniline (coal tars), which were, in fact, the first synthetic dyes. Today the term is used with reference to any synthetic organic dyes...
  • edspider1edspider1 Posts: 195
    Midnight cowboy. I think most of us expect the demand will drop in 6 months, but the supply needs to increase to cause significant dents in price.

    The road noise you hear is from those stupid 17" summer tires being installed on all ULs. It will be better when they wear out at 15,000 miles and you replace them with normal luxury tires from Michelin.

    I expect Lexus will very quickly offer more interior options for the UL. Customers and dealers are all screaming. Of course that will increase demand.
  • nofeernofeer Posts: 381
    Isent a fax to lexus customer service about the limitations given to dealers. My dealer can't tell me if my simple order can be filled--nav/lev-lexus link-white with ecru leather and birdeye maple. I hope lots of people complain, my salesman says he has 12 customers not wanting the ultrlux and in limbo. I wonder if the residual will change(down) as time goes on. If there are that many complaints maybe lexus shot it self in the groin. Time will tell, the most customizable lexus is having growing pains.
    My dealer wondered why lexus abandoned the standard classy wood for that grey stuff( we are not the only ones complaining of this "wood"--no other lux car has anything like it, i wonder why). he feels that lexus would have done better if they had two models
    ultra lux and one with nav/lev-lexus link and choice of wood and color only.
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