I am trying to decide between these two vehicles. I have test driven the LS 430 and was appropriately impressed. I have been offered $55,000 for the vehicle with ML/Nav which is approximately $1,600 above invoice. Most of the '03 LS 430's with the silver exterior have the gray interior, not the preferred black interior. I have driven the BMW 530iA and was also impressed, particularly by the handling. I have not driven the 540iA but have read the enthusiastic reviews by present owners. I have been offered the 540iA $700 below the invoice and could probably negotiate the price down even further. The 540iA has the color scheme I am interested in.
Any recommendations? Any thoughts about Lexus vs. BMW reliability and longevity as I plan on keeping the vehicle for 7+ years? Thanks in advance for any thoughts.
It seems to me if you hate the gray interior, and you are unable to locate a silver over black in a LS 430 then you should buy the BMW if that is the most important factor to you.
BMW will have better handling then the LS.
The LS will have a smoother more quiet ride, and a better Nav. system. It is slightly larger and more comfortable
The LS will be much more reliable as evidenced by every survey done in the last decade.
ONLY YOU CAN DECIDE WHICH FACTORS ARE MORE IMPORTANT TO YOU.
Color is only one of many factors at play here. The LS 430 will cost me approximately $7,000 more than the 540iA. Although I usually drive relatively sedately, I have my moments... Having recently gotten rid of a Mercedes Benz ML vehicle, I am very attuned to reliability, quality, noise, and a courteous service department.
Like you, I got out of a ML430 as well as a S500. The ML430 was not like a Mercedes at all. Noisy, rode rough, and the interior material did not hold up well.
I tested the 5 series, it drove well. I had a friend who had a 540i since 98. Pretty reliable, and the material held up pretty well after 80K miles. He tells me that it is a lot better than his Volvo and Porsche.
For me, the LS430 is the most quiet sedan of the many I tested. I am saying this after 3 years in a S500.....
My Mercedes guy wanted 5K over MSRP. I never got to test one didn't help either. Finally, the folks at Ray Catena presented such a fantastic deal for me on the LS430 ultra..... As a financial guy, I couldn't say no.
Besides, the wive was kind of reluctant to allow me a car capable of 4.2 in 0-60. She might be right.
The LS430 is not compared to the 530i, maybe to the 540i only bcos they are both V8-powered. Otherwise, there ends the similarity and why they are at $7K apart. For pure fun, handling and better performance - 540i. For sheer luxury, refinement, long-term reliability, and excellent dealer service - LS430.
Anecdotal evidence: My good buddy's daily driver is a '99 528i. His driver-side door knob broke recently. Cost him $100 to fix. Prior to that he complained of constant steering vibration. Dealer claimed could not find the problem. My friend complained to BMW corporate. Corporate "called" dealer. Dealer put 4 brand new tires. Problem gone.
And many more issues. All these in only 8 months of ownership. Car now has 55K miles, and is CPOed.
I read somewhere on this board where a long-time BMW owner claimed his BMW dealer told him: the cars are good up to 50K miles. At higher mileage, it becomes a toss-up if yours will/will not fall within the large #'s of less than stellar reliability for the BMW.
I'll add one more consideration to the mix. How long are you planning to keep the car?
I buy my cars outright (no leasing), and I tend to keep them many years before replacing them. For me, the Lexus was a pretty easy choice because it is more reliable over the long term. However, if I was the type of person who kept a car three years or less, I may have gotten the BMW.
Why? Because it is more fun to drive, and the possible reliability problems wouldn't have been that big a deal over such a short time frame. I think most cars these days will be okay for 2-3 years. It is when you start hitting 6-7 years that the quality differences become more evident, and more important.
Darrel, our main man at lexus service, said that many ls430 had an a/c problem and that most people don`t notice it. They have the part in stock, and just fix them when the car comes in for regular service.. In my case, after several hours of driving it just froze up to the point where it stopped working, as I have earlier explained. Darrel loaned rx330, the newly designed small suv, and I found it to be pretty comprable to the old one. It felt a tad larger than the previous one, and I did notice the engine noise was more muscular. THe steering whell adjusted out, and is considerably smaller than I remember. All in all a nice job, and the rear door will open automatically. Unfortunately there is a bulge where the motor is concealed, so if you had , say a table, to transport, it would not fit in there. I may be wrong and the bulge may be really out the way, but that is what it would appear to do. The radio sounded great, and I don`t think it was an m/lev. They also have removed the ashtray completely. Tony
Thanks for the answers to some of the questions I have been asking regarding acquiring a LS 430. I am planning on keeping the car for many years so reliability is a major issue. I live in the South-East where we will usually get one week of inclement weater consisting of snow and ice (one reason I left the Mid-West!)-how has the vehicle handled in those kind of driving conditions for current owners? Do you have to change tires as in some of the BMW's? I don't think I will need the car for another month and would still like to take advantage of pricing on 2003 models (I wasn't that struck by the changes for 2004). Any conjectures on what kind of selection will be left once September rolls around?
Well, the LS430 handles like a large, rear wheel drive car in snow and ice. That is to say, it slips all over the place. The anti-skid and snow mode controls do help a bit, but they don't fix the problem.
I used to kid my wife about her "Lexus log flume" whenever we had snow because that's about how it handled trying to pull out of the driveway. Back then she was driving the LS400, and I was driving a Honda prelude. The prelude was a light car, with the engine right over the drive wheels. Took to snow like it was an SUV. I've since replaced the prelude with the LS430, and snow is a problem. I live in the southeast too, so luckily it isn't a concern for that long each year.
The summer tires it comes with make the situation worse. When it comes time to replace them, I'll look for some that are better in cold weather.
See if you can place a nominal deposit of $100 on a 2003 with your color choice. They just might order one that fits your needs. It might take up to September. At that time the 2004 might be in the showrooms. You could change your mind then.
In the big cities like New York and Boston, there might still be a few fully loaded ultra LS430 in the showrooms with extras like extra wood, XM radio, and gold packages. You might see very motivated dealers wanting to push these models to make room for the 2004's. As the 2004 has a lot of these expensive items included.
Do dealers ever stock just the base 430 with no options that drive the price way up? Might it be possible to get a base LS430 leftover '03 at a price near invoice? Would it be worth checking with dealers around town, or is that a waste of time?
I drove the LS model Lexus for 10 years. Loved every minute and every mile. [140,000.] Winters here in New England can be harsh, and with a good set of all weather tires and careful driving had no problem. Now for "my humble opinion". The Lexus LS430 and the 540i are not really a fair comparison. In the long run, and the short run, and all in between... the LS430 is a hands down winner. I feel I would only have to retract this statement if you intend to race around town and take corners at 75 miles an hour. Hope this helps,and remember...this is only my opinion.
I drove my wife by the BMW dealer to show her the exterior of the 540iA. She said I was crazy to even consider the BMW. She much preferred the "substantial look" of the Lexus. My boss has spoken...
Has anyone had experience with buying the vehicle from a dealer away from their hometown dealer? Any issues I need to be aware of since I will be taking the vehicle into my hometown dealer for service? I assume the hometown dealer will provide complimentary washes like the Mercedes dealer does. How long does the introduction to the vehicle take? Does a technician "customize" the electronics at time of delivery? Should I ask to obtain the owners manual from the selling dealer if they are remotely located from me? Not that we're not all compulsive perfectionists...
Finally got my Road&Track. If I ever get to the point where I want to burn money by having 3 cars for 2 drivers, the V10 does look interesting. Until then, it'll be an LX and RX, changing to LX and LS when AWD comes out on the LS.
You and I are in the same boat on cars but I'm there on the LX and LS already. Quality and greatness of both vehicles will keep me with Lexus from 2004-2006 as I will lease both vehicles again and may buy the LX outright. But I wish the AWD will come sooner rather than later on the LS. If I need a third car - which right now shouldn't be the case I'd take the RX. The new RX is an exceptional SUV. But if the LS was AWD and I'd need a third car then I'd get myself an MB SL if I truly wanted to splurge, an SC430 if I wanted to splurge but save some bucks and as a third choice a BMW 330CCI.
Ah -- but the upcoming GS looks like its going to be a big winner too so I'd give that a look as well when it debuts. But as long as two vehicles are needed the LS and LX are second to none as far as I'm concerned.
Looks like we married the same type of women, as my wife picked the LS430 over the large BMW and S500.
I had been sharing my experience here over the last 3+ months on my LS430 purchase, and my eventual transaction with a New Jersey dealer. I lived some 100+ miles away in New York city. The price I got through them was better than anyone within the 3 states around here. They were very aggressive with closing the deal, but were polite and respectful of my time.
They also arranged for my return of my leased 2001 S500 on the day I took delivery of the LS430. Since I was in a hurry to drive back home (it was a horrid rainy day that day 7/10), the prep mgr only had time to show me the basics on the NAV, like setting my "home address". This setting got me home with no problems.
3 days later, I found a scratch on my back seat, and at first I thought any Lexus dealers would fix it, as I believed it was a manufacturer defect. The closest Lexus service center disagreed, after giving me a New york state inspection and a free wash, they advise that I go back to Ray Catena to get the scratch fix. They feel that R.C. must have damaged the seat during the prep with a screwdriver; or something.
My salesman immediately had a service rep scheduled the earliest appointment at my convenience, and within a week, the scratch was hidden by a leather specialist. The only ill effects is that I could see where it was, my wife can't unless pointed to. The day of the service had wonderful weather, so the 200 miles drive was fantastic in the new air suspension. The ML was wonderful too, although business radio was playing during trading hours.
Since I know not where you lived or what the dealerships are like in your area. I cannot say if this will be the norm, but I had, so far, excellent experience with my out of state Lexus purchase.
I recently made this decision. For my wife's recent special birthday we traded her 2001 LS430 for a 540ia. Mind you there was nothing wrong with the Lexus. It was just due for tires and overdue for the 30,000 mi. service. My wife (thanks to me) has become a "car guy" and we trade for fun, not necessity. Let me say that the comfort, ergonomics, reliability, and dealer service with the Lexus have been top notch. That said, when we each drove the current iteration of the 540i, our mouths wouldn't close and we were hooked. The car is simply (even with auto), the best driver we've ever experienced, by far. We got all the "toys" with it including the M-inspired sport pkg.(with steptronic shift), premium sound with CD, premium pkg., and Nav. Although everything works and works well, the Nav.'s graphics require squinting and don't compare to the LS. Interestingly, I find the radio does compare to the ML in the LS with better base, to my ears. Other little things include covered first 4 yr. maintainence and an excellent local dealer (very important). These are very different cars and each are a thing of beauty. I feel that the current 5 series out for several years, which is now been changed, has proven reliable and would shy away from the new "5" for a year or more. Obviously, we don't keep cars long. The change and fun factors influenced our decision, not any dissatisfaction with Lexus.
Lots of misinfomation about what aniline leather is on the car forums.
The leather is softer both because of the higher grade used and also because the paint coating used in non-aniline leather is slightly stiff.
The reason the leather in the ecru ultra-lux isn't aniline is because it isn't possible to stain something white that is dark (that would be bleaching, not staining). So, they use a pigmented leather paint instead. Both of them get the clear coat afterwards regardless. That's why it is SEMI-aniline instead of a true aniline, which wouldn't have a coating at all and would therefore be very susceptable to dirt, discoloration, and other stains. True aniline leather would not hold up well in a car.
Lots more information available about all of this from high-end furniture companies that use all these types of leather in their products.
Don't know if you caught it before the post was deleted (I didn't know I wasn't supposed to post links to other message boards), but there is a post on ClubLexus that references a Popular Mechanics article predicting a next generation LS for 2005, apparently MY 2005. Its in the LS430 forum under a thread titled LS450. The poster points out that Popular Mechanics was first in predicting the GX.
I haven't read through the posts but that picture looks like a mocked up ES to me. On first look I don't think that is the next generation LS. It's not a formal enough looking car.
I went back and looked at your post 4433 and took a closer look at the 2004. I think they made it a bit more formal than the 2001-2003 years - closer to the old LS400 style in front. The more I look at the 2004 the more awesome I think it looks. I can't imagine Lexus making that 2005 computer generated pix become the new car. I also believe the next gen car is in 2006 and maybe even in 2007 with a Spring 2006 debut.
The pix of the building where that 2004 LS is photographed is also pretty impressive.
Listened to opera on the ML over the weekend. By pushing the fader 3 or 4 steps above neutral, the soundstage at a reasonably loud level made us felt like the 5th row in Lincoln Center Avery Fisher Hall. Amazing soundstage. Amazing.
My 5 yr old son is learning how to open the frig in the back; helping himself to bottle water and soda. I have not taught him how to change the stereo, but I am sure that's coming. If there were as much leg room in the back as my S500; the wife might join him, as the backseats are really comfortable.
Planning a long trip down to D.C. this Labor Day. Will probably drive further to VA and have dinner at The Inn at Little Washington.
The second post in the thread has an actual scan of the orginal article. I agree that the pic is chopped and that my2005 is awfully early for an all-new LS, but I do hope its true since it seems the 04 won't have awd. The article does have some interesting tidbits.
I was very close to an S500 in 2001 (after I quickly dismissed the S430 - just lacking in power for that kind of money) but when I got back in and drove the LS430 back then I just felt it was the better car. The S500 was a great car but the LS just hit all my important desires in a car more precisely. Plus I had no doubt it would give me 3 years of perfect driving and reliability. I had very serious doubts about the MB and seeing the multitude of reliability issues posted on the S-class board over the past few years bore that out. I also knew the first problem I would have would make me wish I had taken the Lexus. So I eliminated all chances of it happening. But take the reliabiulity out of the equation and I think the two cars are real close but I prefer the Lexus for the better ride, quieter interior and better interior, I prefer the MB styling but I also love the LS styling. Naturally its nice to pocket the cash you save as well. The three poinrted star is meaningless to me but there is no doubt in my mind that MB makes great cars.
On your trip - watch your speed in Maryland particularly near DC where it drops to a 55mph limit. You should be fine in all other areas. Here in NJ we are getting local police all over the place on county roads but the Turnpike and Parkway are business as usual.
Ok - syswei's pictures in post 4433 are positively the 2004. I just got a packet in the mail from Lexus of the 2004 preview. The car is pictured in silver (they may be changing the milenium silver name but this color looks every bit like milenium silver to me). The new six-speed transmission gets the 0-60 time down to 5.9 seconds. SmartAccess and SmartStart unlock and start your car automatically. 18" wheels are optional as is the rear camera and Satellite radio. No mention of a sport edition and a 360hp engine as have been rumored but supposedly that was to come out later in the year. Grill and front headlights are bolder and nicer and taillights look better.
A hot looking car.
I'm sure many of you will get this packet in a few days if not today.
I really cannot give a very detailed comparison yet, as I have less than 1K miles, and have not been REALLY driving the car.
In the "soft" comparisons; the LS430 has:
1) Better materials, although my sensitive hearing has discovered minor plastic noise from the driver door.
2) Better brakes. City driving is wonderful, as the car stops smoothly without any jerkiness. Even my S500 was never as smooth.
3) Better at sharp turns; especially during highway exits. The S500 felt rear heavy, and my body is tossed a lot more during lateral accelerations. Once I drive the LS430 at 80+ speeds, I can confirm this finding.
4) Easy to park. The parking system is much better than the S500.
5) Less Wind noise up to 80mph
6) Easier to tailgate. (no, I don;t do this!) The car is higher than the S500, so one can see ahead better.
7) More luggage space
8) MUCH MUCH MUCH better stereo. This really should be #1 or #2 on this list
9) MUCH MUCH better NAV. The S500 soes not even allow exact addresses to be entered. 1865 Broadway has to be entered as just BWay on the S500. I also get bad info on the S500.
10) Looks like the old S500 from late 90's, which I like.
The S500 is better in:
1) Sportier look. Sexier and lower to the ground. But too long, and feels like a boat at times.
2) Accelerations and 40-70mph highway speeds.
3) Lighter steering. My cup of tea.
4) More room in the back.
5) Easier to reach Mercedes Tele-Aid service. Almost instant connection, while I waited and waited for Lexus link.
6) Better cup holders. My Starbucks drips onto a plastic tray, while the fine wood on the LS430 gets stained.
There is a thread now on clublexus that has some VERY detailed pics of the 04, taken at a Japanese dealership. Navigate to the LS Forum, then the thread titled "Show & Tell In Japan - '04 Celsior".
From Lexus direct. But the enclosed letter (dated August 1) references my dealer and says contact them whenever is convenient for an in-person introduction. Since the cars are not here yet I would assume brochures and videos are how thaey would do it.
By the way the 18" wheels are an option but they are mated with the sport suspension. I wonder how Lexus is handling this option. The old Euro suspension was separate from the ultra so if you go with an ultra do you miss out on 18" wheel potential?
Some great pix of a sportclad LS on the site syswei referenced. The guy who posted took a lot of pictures of a Celsior in Japan which comes available with TV and DVD options as well. I wonder if they are doing a DVD option here.
Unfortunately the lexus link still announces, but now it says it isn`t connected, and to push an specific button to connect. I wonder what all this means?? They also could not fix the a/c as the 15,000 mile took most of the day. It cost 3 hundred pluf for the fifttn thousand mile checkup and I really can`t see what was done, as everything except a/c is fine. The a/c is normally it`s regular self, but I have noticed it will get colder on its own, and then on a long trip freeze up.
Seeing as I have had a few more problems with this car, it would seem as though the computer would indicate a malfunction instead of me having to guess there is something wrong. Tony
I assumed the TV and DVD in the Japanese Celsior would be in the rear. Somewhere else I had read that Lexus was going to offer video DVD entertainment systems as an option in the LS in 2004. I always prefer direct factory wiring rather than aftermarket though I know the latter offers more choices and possibly better prices and equipment.
Lexus link - the announcement has never bothered me at all. Actually I find it re-assuring and have even called them after subscription renewal to make sure it was working. But in the RX 330 loaner I had - the link hardware on the windshield was installed but none of the buttons were there and the antenna was missing. Clearly the dealer must have a way of easily finalizing the link installation after some sort of factory preset. Thus they must also have an easy way of disconnecting it.
Looks like I'll do my 1st service 9/15 after my trip to D.C./VA. I'll probably have Ray Catena redo the leather scratch again, as some of the surface epoxy started to crack once sat on.
The minor noise inside door and elbow rest will be examined too.
Looking forward to another 220 miles of sonic driving pleasure....
9/15, ah! Back to school time for the kids....
BTW, thanks for the speed limit heads-up. I'll be using the Passport for my drive to D.C. In 25 years of driving, my only speeding ticket was in a Lexus, back in 1997. I hope to not make that mistake again.
I waited and waited for the 2004's, but decided to save thousands on the 2003. Now the list of 2004 extras are out, and the ONLY item that I am lamenting over is the new key fob. I already has scratch the door frame with the 2003 keys.
I just cannot get used to this key after using the key fob on the S500 since 2001.
Is this your first trip to the Inn at Little Washington? If so, you are in for a real treat. The food is on par with any served in any restaurant in the world, with none of the pretensious crap you have to put up with in France (or NY for that matter. I will NEVER eat at Daniel again). A FABULOUS wine list (although it is hideously expensive). If the weather is nice, have your desert on the terrace. Just an unbelieveable experience.
And I am delighted that you are enjoying the car and the ML.
Yes! So far, only minor issues with new car. Great otherwise. And that ML, as you told me!!
This will be the second time to the Inn for me and my wife. The 1st was almost 10 years ago. Maybe everything has changed since. I agree, Daniel does not have great service and the place is too too small. Have you tried Nobu? A great place on Friday nights to eat and bump into celebrities.
b4z:
When I noted "key fob",I meant a key device with no metal key. Although the Lexus key can open the door remotely, there is still this metal key that can scratch the doors during egress and ingress. The new 2004 fob and previous Mercedes devices are small and no dangerous edges.
I read somewhere that the LS 430 is ready for connection to a cell phone. Will I be able to connect my cell phone to the vehicle via the audio system? I will be picking up my '03 with ML/Nav in the beginning of September. Thanks for any insight!
Just bought them for my LS and wife's Rx330. I think they are one of the great bargains offered by Lexus. Each was $1855("Platinum" upgrade-- covers everything as under the factory warranty) and extended the warranty to a total of 7 years or 100,000 miles ($50 deductible after first 4 yrs.). As a case in point, I just had a new power window motor and gear system put in my out of warranty Chev. pickup. That cost $650. Can you imagine what ANYTHING you broke on an LS out of warranty would cost??
GM has been having probs with their power windows for 5-6 years. Especially in the right rear window on the passenger cars. Mine went out even though i used it may be 10 times. The Tahoes and Suburbans were also having probs with the right rear window. Since the Tahoe and Sub are identical to the pickups, your's was not immune. I guess they got you for both the regulator and motor. I have become a big fan of salvage yards when it comes to electrical components. Motors can be bought for less than $100. This is an option for the Lexus owners now that they have some age on them and the parts are very expensive.
Reliable, yes. But also loaded with lots and lots of very expensive parts. At least a few of them will probably break before the 7 year mark.
Believe me, I know. I've got an older 1990 LS400, and despite its age, is extremely reliable. Every so often, though, something goes out and it is invariably 1000-1200 to get it replaced. Around $800-1000 for the part, and the rest labor to put it in. They are great cars, but they are not inexpensive to repair.
The $1850 for the platinum warrenty sounds reasonable to me. I'll be purchasing that within the next year (I think they give you two years to purchase it). I'm glad the price was posted so I know what to shoot for. The price, as with everything from a car dealership, is negotiable. Doesn't matter which dealership you buy it from, either, so it is possible to call around and play the dealers off each other. If I were offered it for $1850, I'd probably skip the games and just buy it.
Comments
Any recommendations? Any thoughts about Lexus vs. BMW reliability and longevity as I plan on keeping the vehicle for 7+ years? Thanks in advance for any thoughts.
BMW will have better handling then the LS.
The LS will have a smoother more quiet ride, and a better Nav. system. It is slightly larger and more comfortable
The LS will be much more reliable as evidenced by every survey done in the last decade.
ONLY YOU CAN DECIDE WHICH FACTORS ARE MORE IMPORTANT TO YOU.
Color is only one of many factors at play here. The LS 430 will cost me approximately $7,000 more than the 540iA. Although I usually drive relatively sedately, I have my moments... Having recently gotten rid of a Mercedes Benz ML vehicle, I am very attuned to reliability, quality, noise, and a courteous service department.
I tested the 5 series, it drove well. I had a friend who had a 540i since 98. Pretty reliable, and the material held up pretty well after 80K miles. He tells me that it is a lot better than his Volvo and Porsche.
For me, the LS430 is the most quiet sedan of the many I tested. I am saying this after 3 years in a S500.....
Besides, the wive was kind of reluctant to allow me a car capable of 4.2 in 0-60. She might be right.
Anecdotal evidence: My good buddy's daily driver is a '99 528i. His driver-side door knob broke recently. Cost him $100 to fix. Prior to that he complained of constant steering vibration. Dealer claimed could not find the problem. My friend complained to BMW corporate. Corporate "called" dealer. Dealer put 4 brand new tires. Problem gone.
And many more issues. All these in only 8 months of ownership. Car now has 55K miles, and is CPOed.
I read somewhere on this board where a long-time BMW owner claimed his BMW dealer told him: the cars are good up to 50K miles. At higher mileage, it becomes a toss-up if yours will/will not fall within the large #'s of less than stellar reliability for the BMW.
Maybe you will be lucky. Who knows....
I buy my cars outright (no leasing), and I tend to keep them many years before replacing them. For me, the Lexus was a pretty easy choice because it is more reliable over the long term. However, if I was the type of person who kept a car three years or less, I may have gotten the BMW.
Why? Because it is more fun to drive, and the possible reliability problems wouldn't have been that big a deal over such a short time frame. I think most cars these days will be okay for 2-3 years. It is when you start hitting 6-7 years that the quality differences become more evident, and more important.
Sean
Darrel loaned rx330, the newly designed small suv, and I found it to be pretty comprable to the old one. It felt a tad larger than the previous one, and I did notice the engine noise was more muscular. THe steering whell adjusted out, and is considerably smaller than I remember. All in all a nice job, and the rear door will open automatically. Unfortunately there is a bulge where the motor is concealed, so if you had , say a table, to transport, it would not fit in there. I may be wrong and the bulge may be really out the way, but that is what it would appear to do.
The radio sounded great, and I don`t think it was an m/lev. They also have removed the ashtray completely. Tony
I used to kid my wife about her "Lexus log flume" whenever we had snow because that's about how it handled trying to pull out of the driveway. Back then she was driving the LS400, and I was driving a Honda prelude. The prelude was a light car, with the engine right over the drive wheels. Took to snow like it was an SUV. I've since replaced the prelude with the LS430, and snow is a problem. I live in the southeast too, so luckily it isn't a concern for that long each year.
The summer tires it comes with make the situation worse. When it comes time to replace them, I'll look for some that are better in cold weather.
Sean
In the big cities like New York and Boston, there might still be a few fully loaded ultra LS430 in the showrooms with extras like extra wood, XM radio, and gold packages. You might see very motivated dealers wanting to push these models to make room for the 2004's. As the 2004 has a lot of these expensive items included.
Has anyone had experience with buying the vehicle from a dealer away from their hometown dealer? Any issues I need to be aware of since I will be taking the vehicle into my hometown dealer for service? I assume the hometown dealer will provide complimentary washes like the Mercedes dealer does. How long does the introduction to the vehicle take? Does a technician "customize" the electronics at time of delivery? Should I ask to obtain the owners manual from the selling dealer if they are remotely located from me? Not that we're not all compulsive perfectionists...
Ah -- but the upcoming GS looks like its going to be a big winner too so I'd give that a look as well when it debuts. But as long as two vehicles are needed the LS and LX are second to none as far as I'm concerned.
I had been sharing my experience here over the last 3+ months on my LS430 purchase, and my eventual transaction with a New Jersey dealer. I lived some 100+ miles away in New York city. The price I got through them was better than anyone within the 3 states around here. They were very aggressive with closing the deal, but were polite and respectful of my time.
They also arranged for my return of my leased 2001 S500 on the day I took delivery of the LS430. Since I was in a hurry to drive back home (it was a horrid rainy day that day 7/10), the prep mgr only had time to show me the basics on the NAV, like setting my "home address". This setting got me home with no problems.
3 days later, I found a scratch on my back seat, and at first I thought any Lexus dealers would fix it, as I believed it was a manufacturer defect. The closest Lexus service center disagreed, after giving me a New york state inspection and a free wash, they advise that I go back to Ray Catena to get the scratch fix. They feel that R.C. must have damaged the seat during the prep with a screwdriver; or something.
My salesman immediately had a service rep scheduled the earliest appointment at my convenience, and within a week, the scratch was hidden by a leather specialist. The only ill effects is that I could see where it was, my wife can't unless pointed to. The day of the service had wonderful weather, so the 200 miles drive was fantastic in the new air suspension. The ML was wonderful too, although business radio was playing during trading hours.
Since I know not where you lived or what the dealerships are like in your area. I cannot say if this will be the norm, but I had, so far, excellent experience with my out of state Lexus purchase.
The reply was only partially correct.
Aniline actually refers to the dyeing process.
The leather is soaked in drums and the dye goes all the way through it.
Because of this process only the BEST and clearest hides are used.
Which may explain why it is softer.
In most cars only the top of the leather is pigmented(not dyed). It is often embossed to make it look more regular and to hide flaws in the hide.
Did you guys know that all of the leather in today's cars are either clearcoated or scotchguarded?
http://www.irvingtanning.com/leather_glossary.htm
Good to see that Lexus is going the extra mile to reach this level of quality.
The leather is softer both because of the higher grade used and also because the paint coating used in non-aniline leather is slightly stiff.
The reason the leather in the ecru ultra-lux isn't aniline is because it isn't possible to stain something white that is dark (that would be bleaching, not staining). So, they use a pigmented leather paint instead. Both of them get the clear coat afterwards regardless. That's why it is SEMI-aniline instead of a true aniline, which wouldn't have a coating at all and would therefore be very susceptable to dirt, discoloration, and other stains. True aniline leather would not hold up well in a car.
Lots more information available about all of this from high-end furniture companies that use all these types of leather in their products.
Sean
The pix of the building where that 2004 LS is photographed is also pretty impressive.
My 5 yr old son is learning how to open the frig in the back; helping himself to bottle water and soda. I have not taught him how to change the stereo, but I am sure that's coming. If there were as much leg room in the back as my S500; the wife might join him, as the backseats are really comfortable.
Planning a long trip down to D.C. this Labor Day. Will probably drive further to VA and have dinner at The Inn at Little Washington.
Think I'll put about 800-900 miles all together.
I was very close to an S500 in 2001 (after I quickly dismissed the S430 - just lacking in power for that kind of money) but when I got back in and drove the LS430 back then I just felt it was the better car. The S500 was a great car but the LS just hit all my important desires in a car more precisely. Plus I had no doubt it would give me 3 years of perfect driving and reliability. I had very serious doubts about the MB and seeing the multitude of reliability issues posted on the S-class board over the past few years bore that out. I also knew the first problem I would have would make me wish I had taken the Lexus. So I eliminated all chances of it happening. But take the reliabiulity out of the equation and I think the two cars are real close but I prefer the Lexus for the better ride, quieter interior and better interior, I prefer the MB styling but I also love the LS styling. Naturally its nice to pocket the cash you save as well. The three poinrted star is meaningless to me but there is no doubt in my mind that MB makes great cars.
On your trip - watch your speed in Maryland particularly near DC where it drops to a 55mph limit. You should be fine in all other areas. Here in NJ we are getting local police all over the place on county roads but the Turnpike and Parkway are business as usual.
A hot looking car.
I'm sure many of you will get this packet in a few days if not today.
Now I wish they would send me a 2004 LX preview.
In the "soft" comparisons; the LS430 has:
1) Better materials, although my sensitive hearing has discovered minor plastic noise from the driver door.
2) Better brakes. City driving is wonderful, as the car stops smoothly without any jerkiness. Even my S500 was never as smooth.
3) Better at sharp turns; especially during highway exits. The S500 felt rear heavy, and my body is tossed a lot more during lateral accelerations. Once I drive the LS430 at 80+ speeds, I can confirm this finding.
4) Easy to park. The parking system is much better than the S500.
5) Less Wind noise up to 80mph
6) Easier to tailgate. (no, I don;t do this!) The car is higher than the S500, so one can see ahead better.
7) More luggage space
8) MUCH MUCH MUCH better stereo. This really should be #1 or #2 on this list
9) MUCH MUCH better NAV. The S500 soes not even allow exact addresses to be entered. 1865 Broadway has to be entered as just BWay on the S500. I also get bad info on the S500.
10) Looks like the old S500 from late 90's, which I like.
The S500 is better in:
1) Sportier look. Sexier and lower to the ground. But too long, and feels like a boat at times.
2) Accelerations and 40-70mph highway speeds.
3) Lighter steering. My cup of tea.
4) More room in the back.
5) Easier to reach Mercedes Tele-Aid service. Almost instant connection, while I waited and waited for Lexus link.
6) Better cup holders. My Starbucks drips onto a plastic tray, while the fine wood on the LS430 gets stained.
More to follow after my long trip ....
Thanks in advance for your response.
By the way the 18" wheels are an option but they are mated with the sport suspension. I wonder how Lexus is handling this option. The old Euro suspension was separate from the ultra so if you go with an ultra do you miss out on 18" wheel potential?
Some great pix of a sportclad LS on the site syswei referenced. The guy who posted took a lot of pictures of a Celsior in Japan which comes available with TV and DVD options as well. I wonder if they are doing a DVD option here.
Seeing as I have had a few more problems with this car, it would seem as though the computer would indicate a malfunction instead of me having to guess there is something wrong. Tony
Lexus link - the announcement has never bothered me at all. Actually I find it re-assuring and have even called them after subscription renewal to make sure it was working. But in the RX 330 loaner I had - the link hardware on the windshield was installed but none of the buttons were there and the antenna was missing. Clearly the dealer must have a way of easily finalizing the link installation after some sort of factory preset. Thus they must also have an easy way of disconnecting it.
The minor noise inside door and elbow rest will be examined too.
Looking forward to another 220 miles of sonic driving pleasure....
9/15, ah! Back to school time for the kids....
BTW, thanks for the speed limit heads-up. I'll be using the Passport for my drive to D.C. In 25 years of driving, my only speeding ticket was in a Lexus, back in 1997. I hope to not make that mistake again.
I just cannot get used to this key after using the key fob on the S500 since 2001.
And I am delighted that you are enjoying the car and the ML.
Yes! So far, only minor issues with new car. Great otherwise. And that ML, as you told me!!
This will be the second time to the Inn for me and my wife. The 1st was almost 10 years ago. Maybe everything has changed since. I agree, Daniel does not have great service and the place is too too small. Have you tried Nobu? A great place on Friday nights to eat and bump into celebrities.
b4z:
When I noted "key fob",I meant a key device with no metal key. Although the Lexus key can open the door remotely, there is still this metal key that can scratch the doors during egress and ingress. The new 2004 fob and previous Mercedes devices are small and no dangerous edges.
The Tahoes and Suburbans were also having probs with the right rear window.
Since the Tahoe and Sub are identical to the pickups, your's was not immune. I guess they got you for both the regulator and motor.
I have become a big fan of salvage yards when it comes to electrical components. Motors can be bought for less than $100.
This is an option for the Lexus owners now that they have some age on them and the parts are very expensive.
Believe me, I know. I've got an older 1990 LS400, and despite its age, is extremely reliable. Every so often, though, something goes out and it is invariably 1000-1200 to get it replaced. Around $800-1000 for the part, and the rest labor to put it in. They are great cars, but they are not inexpensive to repair.
The $1850 for the platinum warrenty sounds reasonable to me. I'll be purchasing that within the next year (I think they give you two years to purchase it). I'm glad the price was posted so I know what to shoot for. The price, as with everything from a car dealership, is negotiable. Doesn't matter which dealership you buy it from, either, so it is possible to call around and play the dealers off each other. If I were offered it for $1850, I'd probably skip the games and just buy it.
Sean