Hyundai Sonata 2005 and earlier

ippysan

Hi, the owners manual for my '97 Sonata GL with auto trans and 4 cyl engine calls for the replacement of the timing belt at 60k miles. I have 71k and the local dealer here in Las Vegas wants $400.00 to replace it. Does anyone know if this is something I really should have done? The Service Manager says that if the belt goes it will likely damage the engine and result in costly repairs. Does anyone have experience with this? Any recommendations? Thanks for any and all help. Jim Ippolito

lngtonge18

Yes, you should have it done. If the timing belt breaks on your car, the pistons can slam into the valves, thus causing engine damage to the tune of $2k or more. $400 is a reasonable price for a timing belt change. Taking into consideration that the 92-94 Elantras had a known problem with their timing belts breaking before the 60k mark and your car was built before Hyundai's newfound interest in increasing quality, I would say you are beyond the safety zone and need to get it replaced asap.

ray_h71

Yep, and while you're at it, if your engine's water pump is behind the front covers, consider having the water pump replaced even if it seems fine. Since the front covers have to be removed for access, if the dealer will apply the labor charge to both, it would behoove you to pop for the part charge for the peace of mind. (You can bet that if the pump tanks later, you'll be looking at more than $400.00 for its replacement. Is it worth gambling that the pump'll last another 60,000 miles until the next belt replacement?) One more thought you should be aware of about the timing belt(s). (Dunno whether your engine has another belt for counterweighted balance shafts) There are usually NO indications of impending failure prior to its just going "snap".

intrepidspirit

I think the "check engine light" saga is over for my stepson's new Sonata! They took it in 5 times since we bought it 2 1/2 weeks ago. They could never find a problem.

The 5th time, the light was on when they diagnosed it and problems were identified. As identified by ray h71, part of the problem was the vapor recovery charcoal cannister. There also seemed to be a sensor error for the gas tank and they replaced several hoses, etc. They called Hyundai on this issue and were told that this problem had been found on other Hyundais, but not on the Sonata.

Anyway, they had the car for 2 days waiting for a part and provided them with a rental car until it was fixed -- and this was not the dealership we bought the car from! I was impressed...and they said to bring back the service survey that will be sent to my stepson and they will give him a free tank of gas and a car wash!

Even though Hyundai is one of the few car companies that is increasing sales in this economic environment, they continue to cater to the customer to win their loyalty...

ippysan

OK guys thanks for the advice. Now I can't wait to get it into the dealership. I think I will get the water pump replaced too. Jim Ippolito

ippysan

Last summer the ac/heater fan in my '97 Sonata did not always come on, especially on the hottest days. Sometimes it would not work for a few minutes and sometimes for a few hours. I had the system checked by the dealer and they couldn't find anything wrong, naturally I could never get it to the dealer when the fan wasn't working. Has anyone had a similar experience? Anyone have any ideas as to what it might be? Since I have an appointment for next Monday to change the timing belt and W/P I have an opportunity to ask them to check it again. Thanks for any and all help. Jim Ippolito

riez

My 2000 Hyundai Sonata GLS (fully loaded V6, 5-speed manual with Option Package 13) is about to hit 3 years and 43,000 miles. She has been a great car. Reliable. Inexpensive at purchase time. Inexpensive to maintain. Joy to own and operate.

Just put on a new set of tires (42,933 miles). Went with set of Continental ContiTouringContact CH95s, 205/60R15 91H. Provide better handling and steering response than the original Michelin Energy MXV4s, and a lot less expensive--almost half as expensive at only $65/tire.

They also just replaced the rear brake pads and turned the rear rotors.

She is under full factory warranty until 2006 (6yr/72K), as I opted for an additional 1yr/12k bumper-to-bumper warranty under the horsepower rating compensation program.

All I've had to do is replace the windshield wipers (40K), replace cabin pollen filter (21K & 40K), replace engine air filter (39K), replaced one burned out front headlight at 20K and another at 30K, flushed coolant (30K), rotated tires (6 times), and LOF (8 times).

Had the airbag recall done at 34K. The MAF recall at 21K. Front brake rotors resurfaced under warranty (28K).

My sales and service experiences have always been positive. (This dealer also sells Cadillacs.)

All things considered, a GREAT CAR!

astrol

Riez,

I'm curious...how did you get the rotors resurfaced under warranty? They are listed as a wear item. My dealer has consistently charged me for anything regarding the brakes.

Also, thanks for the tip on the Continentals...my wife loves the Michelins but I might run the CH95s by her.

codata99

What does the word normal mean to you?

riez

astrol... I save all my service records. I've used the same dealer for all my service. I had documented some early complaints about steering wheel shimmy under braking. I had stated it as possible warped rotor. They dutifully wrote it up that way on a couple service visits, as I mentioned it each time, though they said they couldn't experience it when they drove. (Interestingly, they never wanted me to drive it with their service advisor or technician present.) So when the shimmying got too bad, I brought all this up yet again. This time they had no problem duplicating the issue. So I said, see what I've been telling you for the past 15K miles? Initially they refused to consider as warranty unless Hyundai USA would approve. So I spoke with Hyundai USA. Dealer sent Hyundai USA my earlier service write ups. Viola, they covered it.

riez

astrol... I really, really did want to go with some aggressive summer high performance tires. Too bad the 205/60R15 size is smallish. Not a lot of really good rubber for it. But I didn't want to shell out the bucks for new 16 inch alloy rims. And I knew, in my brain, that I really should go with all season tires. I just didn't want to have to buy winter tires and mount/dismount them each season. Then I realized, in my wallet & brain, that I really didn't want to spend a fortune on high performance M&S tires.

The Continentals seemed like the best all around choice. If they are good enough for BMW as OE tires, then they should be OK for my Hyundai. (Too bad Hyundai has never made a Sport Package for the V6. Things like LSD, bigger tires, more aggressive suspension, etc.)

You should look over the November 2002 issue of CR. Has a good discussion on both winter and M&S tires. That is where I saw the comments about the Continental ContiTouringContact as well as their reasonable price.

csandste

These cars move rapidly without negotiation, a Sonata V6 was listed at $15000, 2 V6 Optimas were listed at $12000 and a Mazda 626 at $13000. Interesting to see that Hyundai is apparently holding value more than the last gen. 626 and that Optimas depreciate much faster than Sonatas. The Sonata had nicer finishes but not that much nicer. All cars were 2002's with mileage in the mid twenties. I think the Sonata had the highest mileage of the four. The Sonata seems pretty expensive for a rental car with that mileage, but glad they can get it. Depreciation horror stories must be at an end, all Hyundais in stock go out fast.

romdog2

My '97 GLS (one family owner, 100300 miles, NO problems, everything still works - including all the electrics/radio, etc.) V6 a/c belt has started to squeak, what with beginning to use the a/c now on some warm days. It was replaced last August, so it is a newer belt and I don't think another new one would fix this. If it would, I'd like to replace it myself, anyway. How do you get it to tighten? I cranked down on the bolt facing up toward the top, and it seemed to be tighter, but it still yelps for 2-5 seconds when you first turn on the a/c, and sometimes at highway speeds it squeaks off and on (maybe as the compressor cycles?). Are there other bolts to loosen first? There's no "Chilton's" manual for this car that I can find at our local parts houses, and I can't afford a factory manual, so I'm looking for some information about how to do this. My mechanical ability is from the "carburetor and points" days, but this should be a "shade tree" fix, and no more difficult than pulling the head off an old straight six or changing out a CVC joint, right?
By the way --
RE: timing belts and water pumps - replaced my belt at 96000; the mechanic said it looked fine, although I know it was risky waiting that long. Had the serpentine and a/c belt replaced then, too, but not the water pump. The $160 for a dealer's part was too much money at the time.
RE: tires - being more interested with increasing the comfort of the ride than the ability to turn corners, at 60000 miles I replaced the 205-60-15 Michelins with 195-65-15 Goodyear Regatta 2's. Those, along with new front struts, gave a noticably quieter and less harsh ride. And they have been great in the winter - in MO we get enough snow to be concerned, but not enough for snom tires. I hear the Yokohama Avid and Avid T's are good, too, but I got a great deal on the Goodyear's.
RE: squeaky brakes - this is a continual problem. Ended up with a set of pads (from what parts house I don't remember) that had a metal clip attached on the back of both the inner and outer pads. This did the trick. I think you can put a metal shim in there, too, as an alternate fix. The brake "goop" they sell you in the tiny tube for $1 doesn't seem to help much. Cleaning the rotor with some isopropyl alcohol seems to be a good idea, too.
Help me with the a/c belt squeak, please -- my wife is really getting tired of this! Thanks!!!

ray_h71

I take it that there's a separate belt* for the AC compressor on your 96 Sonata. If the belt squeals everytime the AC compressor cycles on, the belt's either loose or glazed. I'm not specifically familiar with that model year, but, generally look for an "idler" pulley somewhere in that belt's path. It'll be an adjustable pulley that doesn't actually drive anything - merely tensions the belt. If there's one there, it'll either be under spring tension to maintain tension** on the belt or it'll be adjustable - usually with a locking bolt that has to be loosened, and then an adjusting bolt that can then be tightened to increase the tension on the belt. The rule of thumb in adjusting belt tension is that moderate force with your thumb midway along the longest span of belt shouldn't deflect the belt more than ~1/2". Once adjusted, don't forget to retighten the locking bolt. If you're able to accomplish what I've described and the #%&@ed belt still squeals, it's probably glazed and will need to be replaced. Wish I could be more help. If push comes to shove, any mechanic worth his salt can verify the proper tension, adjustment, and belt condition.

*If it's a serpentine belt, make absolutely certain that ALL the ribs fit into the pulleys' matching grooves. It's very easy to have the belt "hang" out of either side on one or more pulleys. That'll ruin a belt sure as shootin'.

**A spring loaded idler pulley is not adjustable. It can be "detensioned" at belt-change time by prying between two bosses against the spring force to allow the pulley to be moved sufficiently to remove the old belt and install a new belt. If the spring loses tension over time, the spring-loaded pulley bracket, or the whole assembly will need to be replaced.

mike91326

We recently purchased a 2003 Hyundai Sonata LX with package 7 and I cannot believe how much car you get for the money. While we were out shopping we decided to look at a Camry at our dealers Toyota store which was across the street from their Hyundai store. We found that a Camry XLS equipped like our Sonata LX would have cost almost $7,000 more. I know about Hyundai’s past, but that was then and this is now. As fun and reliable as my 2001 Elantra has been, I could never justify spending $7,000 more for a comparable car.

Hyundai should offer the Sonata in a GT version. This car would be a blast with a 6-speed stick, 17” wheels, dual exhaust, sport suspension, etc.

ray_h71

Wouldn't hurt if Hyundai would update their Delta V6 motor while they're at it. It's hard to seriously consider the Sonata as "GT" material, whatever the suspension and wheel upgrades, while it's being pulled along by 170 hp. (Variable valve timing and enlarging it to 3.0 liters would be a nice start.) Keep in mind that Hyundai's Japanese competion has V6 motors well in excess of 220 hp, and in some cases I4 motors exceeding Hyundai's 2.7 liter V6 in power. I'm not at all dissatisfied with my Sonata V6, but, then I have no pretensions of being a swerve and dart "sport" driver, either. Sonatas ARE good cars for the money, but Hyundai definitely still has some catching up to do if it hopes to play in the big leagues. (It IS off to a good start, though!) I consider the Sonata the "Nash" of the mid-size imports - comfortable, but unexciting cars with mediocre, at best, resale value. Hopefully Sonatas'll prove at least as reliable as they are comfortable since the only way currently to obtain full value is to drive it out of them.

mike91326

I agree that Hyundai needs to step up to the plate with their V6 engines. The Sonata (especially in GT form) needs a more powerful and better mileage engine. However, as a total package the Sonata has arrived. In comparing the Sonata LX to the Camry XLS I found very little difference except the price. Also, I don’t think Toyota’s 3.0 V6 is anything to write home about.

tark101

I purchased a used 2002 GLS and was told it didnt have keyless entry, but after getting it home I was reminded by my wife that the ford dealer we bought our used van from said the same thing (and was wrong they had just lost the remote)

So how can I tell?

I have the package with the sunroof and abs, but nowhere on the Hyunda website do I see a package that cotains keyless entry. Ofcourse Im looking at the 2003 models

lngtonge18

Yes, your car came standard with keyless entry. I would go back to the dealer and find out what happened to it. You can get proof of this by looking up the 02 Sonata GLS on edmunds.com and selecting the standard features link.

mike91326

The GLS comes standard with keyless entry and an alarm system along with two key fobs. You need the key fob to arm and disarm the alarm.

ray_h71

You didn't mention whether you bought your Sonata from a -Hyundai- dealer. However if he won't ante up the keyfobs, I've seen them for sale on eBay for under $10.00 each. However, if you end up going that route, the fobs will need to be programmed to your car. That may necessitate a trip to a Hyundai dealer with a nominal service charge.

tark101

Didnt think I'd recieve an answer that quick!

I'll talk to my slick salesman tomorrow.

Thanks for the help!

jncjat

ANY INFORMATION AS TO WHEN THE NEXT GENERATION SONATA IS DUE.

fremsley1

Need some input on what to do. Bought a new '03 Sonata several weeks ago; then during the first real cleaning, I noticed a fairly hefty scratch, about 2" long, inside and near the top of one of the rear side windows.
I live in the DEEP South, and with Summer comming-on, I want to get a solar film on the windows soon. My question, does the chance of the service department not returning the door assembly to it's "original" factory condition or causing some other damage (seen or otherwise) during the window replacement, outweigh a scratch-free window? Should I report it to the dealership even if I don't have it replaced? Not a huge problem, but would appreciate some opinions.

jk27

Do you have any idea what caused it? If the car came with the scratch and/or if the scratch was caused by a defect in the window mechanism, it should be replaced under the warranty -- with no cost to you. Obviously, if you caused it -- well, you'll have to decide if it's worth it to you to fix it -- or just live with it. You may also want to check with your insurance company. Many insurance companies have a zero deductible policy on glass damage (e.g., State Farm). Good luck!

ray_h71

Fremsley, since the Sonata's rear windows don't fully retract into the door, nor do they extend more than a fraction of an inch into the top of the window frame opening, it's hard to imagine any mechanical difficulty that could account for a 2" long scratch in the glass at either the top of the window opening or from a defect/adjustment problem with the regulator assembly. Nevertheless, I'd still approach the dealer since that scratch might be the result of mishandling during assembly. Most car manufacturers tend to give new owners the benefit of the doubt during the first month after delivery, so best to get hopping.

w4tto

I looked at a Sonata 1996 3.0 V6 (auto) with 65K on the clock (unless there is 100k someone has not told me about!)today & am thinking of buying (£2999). Was just looking to see if anyone has anything to say about problems they have experienced with this model & what to look out for when test driving it(as i cant find many decent reports). All anyone says is about the auto transmition in 1st & 2nd ..is this that bad?
Yes I know it is old & new sonatas seem all anyone is talking about, but I just wanted a reliable, comfy run around to get me to & from work..have I found one?

lngtonge18

I can't comment on that year Sonata as far as all around reliability goes, but it was the first design where Hyundai became serious about its cars and improving their reliability. I can say the 3.0 V6 is a solid reliable Mitsubishi design. The same engine was used in their 25k luxury Diamante, as well as many Chrysler products. I owned a 93 Diamante with the same engine and it lasted 173k and still ran smooth and was very reliable. This engine is known for weak valve stem seals which can lead to some oil burning on higher mileage cars (mine drank a 1/4 quart per 3k; which is common on high mileage cars). The main area Hyundai needed improvement on in those days was the quality of their automatic transmission. I would make sure it shifts smoothly and has had its fluid changed at least twice. Otherwise, it should be a nice car for a cheap price.

w4tto

Thanks Ingtonge18 ..if i get that many miles out of it i will be extremly happy.
i cant see how you guys (& girls) put so many miles on a car ..you could not do that in the UK !
I checked out the service history today & at 28K (1998) it had a new engine as there was knocking on the old one, so now there is only 36k on the new engine, anyone elses have this problem ...did the new engine have any later faults ?
Also am I the only Englishman in here ?

ray_h71

Nah, we keep one in a storage closet. Let 'im out periodically when we want to be reminded how English should be spoken. Feed 'im ale and fish 'n chips regularly. Seems to keep 'im happy... Seriously, a couple of points. The old generation Sonata AT was also a Mitsubishi design and was a good one. And, like any AT, it needs -regular- periodic fluid changes. NO AT should go longer than 30,000 miles between fluid changes as far as I'm concerned. Many tranny techs strongly suggest every 15,000 miles. Those Mitsubishi-designed trannys have a real drain plug on the bottom of the pan, so it's not a difficult job. As to the Mistsubishi-designed V6's alleged oil thirst, there were various reasons. The most notable were poorly designed main seals, but this problem was fixed with a seal re-design by about 1994. Your prospective car's relatively new engine surely wouldn't have the old style main seals. Ingtonge's 1/2 pint oil loss every 3,000 miles was nothing. That's 2 2/3 oz. every thousand miles! Most, if not all, dealers' shops (ANY make) won't even write up a service invoice for oil consumption under 1 qt/1,000 miles. (And, I like to see a little oil consumption as evidence the valve stems are getting their fair share anyway.) As to your question how we Yanks manage to put so many miles on our cars, come to the U.S. and see for yourself. If you take a motor tour from the midwest to the west coast, the answer will become quite clear. (Limit yourself to 20 miles in west Texas, though. At that point you've seen 'bout all that area has to offer...)

fremsley1

Thanks for the responses. The scratch was definitely not something I caused: must have been there when I purchased the car. My main concern is the ability of any service department to return the door assembly to a 'good as new' condition; I'd hate this to be the start of series of mechanical or seepage problems resulting from the stress of re-assembly. Then again, if the scratch is now a point of weakness on the window (I don't know that much about the physics of auto glass) it maybe worth the risk of other problems developing later-on. Yes..No..?

jk27

If it was my brand new car, I would definitely get it fixed. I would not be worried about any potential problems caused by the repair. If it happens, your long Hyundai warranty comes into play. I would insist on it being fixed to your satisfaction -- or I'd bring it back. I can't relate to not fixing something out of a fear of creating a new problem. If you operate that way, you may never fix anything on your car!

Bottom line: the glass should not be scratched and it should be fixed, imho.

ray_h71

I agree completely with JK, Fremsley. Another issue is potentially safety related. The side and back glass on all cars marketed in the U.S. (probably Canada, too) is tempered. Tempering (two methods I'm aware of: heat tempering - heating just to the point of melt and then "quashing" with cool air blown against both sides, or chemical tempering - dipping the glass into a bath of certain molten salts {NOT dissolved, but, rather, heated past their melting point} for 18 - 36 hours) results in two important properties:

The first is additional strength. ("Stressed" material is stronger.) The former method results in stress formed at the surface because it's cooled more rapidly than the interior of the glass. The latter method results in stress, again at the surface, due to "loading" of various ions several microns into the surface of the glass matrix.

Secondly is that, should the tempered glass be struck and break, it'll do so in a controlled manner: litle average 3/8" sized chunks instead of nasty shards. The problem with that 2" scratch is that area is no longer properly tempered since the surface integrity is now compromized. With the tempering stress compromized, the entire window could theoretically decide to give way unexpectedly. And if it does, it may or may not result in some undesirable shards in the process. The dealer will probably call a professional glass installer out to do the work. So, I doubt you have anything to worry about regarding leakage or mechanical problems. These guys know what they're doing and it isn't really rocket science anyway. (And as JK posted, if any troubles develop, it'll be the dealer's obligation to have them rectified. Just keep your repair invoice.)

wiggler

W4tto... regarding your comment "anything to say about problems they have experienced with this model & what to look out for when test driving it(as i cant find many decent reports). All anyone says is about the auto transmition in 1st & 2nd ..is this that bad?" Well I reported my Shift problem here in Problems and Solutions on my 2001 GLS back in Aug of 2001 (2-3 shift flare at 1700 miles) and to this day, after taking it in to 3 different dealers, have not been able to get it fixed. Annoying as hell, but I just gave up in trying to get it fixed (from dealers who won't acknowledge that there IS a problem). Currently have 29,000 on it and appears to still shift OK (after it is warmed up). I am only planning on keeping the car till around 50,000 miles, but will probably "vote with my wallet" on my displeasure of this transmission situation by NOT purchasing another Hyundai. Happy motoring!

fremsley1

Thanks JK and Ray for the 'class on glass'. I plan on keeping the car for a long time and it sounds like getting the window replaced is the way to go. Again, many thanks.

ray_h71

W4tto's inquiry was about a completely different transmission family than our current generation Sonatas share. Ours are Hyundai-designed with input from Mercedes Benz. (DaimlerChrysler was and still is an equity investor in Hyundai.)

Wiggler, this may be a waste of bandwidth, but, have you ever had the transmission fluid changed? If you do a lot of stop-and-go driving, that's hard on the fluid. At 30,000+ miles, I'd consider it due. (ANY make automatic transmission) Since the transmission appears to shift OK once wamred up, you may be getting some varnish build-up sticking in the valve(s) associated with the 2-3 upshift when cold. Another thing you might consider is reprogramming the shift quality. These trannies are totally under computerized electronic control, and the control module has an "adaptive learning" mode. To reset, drive the car about 20 miles to bring the tranny up to operating temperature. (VERY important) Write down your radio presets, and disconnect the ground lead from the battery for at least 30 seconds. After you re-attach and tighten the ground cable, drive your car in city traffic over predominently level terrain for about half an hour. It'll probably shift somewhat harshly initially since the transmission control module needs to re-learn your driving habits from scratch. During this time avoid jack-rabbit starts. The transmission control module will continue to fine-tune its shift quality over the next several days. Once your driving style is learned, the control module will automatically compensate from then on for normal transmission clutch plate and brake wear to maintain the memorized shift quality. Don't forget to reprogram your radio's presets since they were erased when you disconnected the battery. If this exercise does not result in any improvement, then there still may not really be a malfunction. (I'm still coming back to the normal shift quality once warmed up.) As I mentioned initially, if you're still on the factory fill fluid, it would be a good idea to consider a drain and refill. Make sure you use the type of ATF Hyundai recommends or its later replacement (SP-III) since the newest stuff is backward compatible with pre-2003 trannies. One of SP-III's improvements is better low temperature performance. Most (all?) Asian car manufacturers no longer recommend Dexron specification ATFs, so don't let an independent transmission shop try to con you into accepting it. If you do the work yourself, I found that my local Kia* dealer sells an SP-III ATF about $1.00/qt cheaper than my Hyundai dealer. These boxes take about 8 quarts. There's no replaceable filter on these boxes, by the way - only a screen that can only be accessed upon complete disassembly. The drain plug is a large hex bolt and soft metal washer on the bottom of the tranny towards the passenger side of the car. If you do replace or have the ATF replaced, that might be a good time to follow up with the reprogramming sequence I outlined.

*Kia Optimas are bolt-for-bolt identical to the Hyundai Sonata. The only differences are cosmetic - fenders, hood and rear deck lid, grill, bumpers, and interior appointments. When shopping replacement wear and tear items, always check both sources if there's a Kia dealer within a reasonable driving distance.

wiggler

Thanks for the info. I will consider what you suggested. Far as I know, the different dealers never changed the fluids, in their 'attempts'. They 'reset adaptive' and "flashed???" something (not flushed), but none of them ever put more than a few (2 to 7) miles on the car from the time I dropped it to pick-up, so I doubt if they did even a good warm-up. It is a shame that the Hyundai dealers are the weakest link in this whole situation, as it really is not a bad car overall. Just bothers me that they advertise such a great warranty, however even great cars need service over time and this seems to be where Hyundai fails miserably, at least in my experiences so far.

ray_h71

"Flashed" refers to writing over the flash ROM, a form of "electrically erasable read only memory - EEROM" with new, upgraded instructions. This type of memory does not require continuous power to maintain what's stored in it. However, the adaptive learning memory that stores your driving habits does require electrical power at all times to maintain the loaded data. (conceptually similar to your computer's "dynamic random access memory - DRAM") Disconnecting the battery for 30 seconds will wipe that, but leave the semi-permanent instructions in EEROM untouched.

tuneful

Hello Sonata people! I have had a rental Sonata for a few days. GLS, V6, silver, new design (Jaguar-like), only 4K on it. I REALLY like this car. Since I’m in the market, I was considering it. However, I find the seat and the driving position uncomfortable. The seat is TOO HARD and feels too low. I have played with all its knobs and stuff. Also, the driving position doesn’t feel right for me– my knee knocks the steering column and my legs feel cramped when I am at the right position for my arms. Too bad! Wish I could solve... What I particularly like about the car is the attractive design, its quite-comfortable suspension over road imperfections, quiet cabin, the rev note (nice not harsh), and the size – it is a midsize but not a boat. I can get it into city parking spaces. My one other negative is the radio--the sound quality, the reception, and controls that feel cheap. But, Hyundai, keep up the good work, and keep tweaking this car! And if anyone has any suggestions on the seat/driving position, let me know. Thanks!

ray_h71

Tunefull, welcome aboard, and I share some of your concerns, but not all. I have an '03 base Sonata with the V6. Yes, that V6 engine's refined burble does sound sweet under power! And, when the torque starts pressing my lower back into the seat at about 2500 RPM on a full-throttle onramp entrance, it's hard to believe that engine's only rated at 170 hp. There's not a state in the Union or a province in the Canadian Federation that I couldn't easily get a speeding ticket in.

I bought mine last December and in February had the dealer install leather - a purely self-indulgent lust I've had for some time. The seats are firm, but I don't find them any more so than those of the '96 Accord I previously owned. As for too low, are you aware that the height can be adjusted - both the rear and front of the front seat cushion? I've got mine adjusted as low at both points as I can, and I still feel it's a bit -high-. (Or else the top of the windshield is too low - I often find myself ducking at intersections so I can see when the light turns green. Grrr!) I hasten to point out that I'm 6'11", and long on torso, so the genes I inherited may be part of my problem.

I do agree that when I have my arms comfortable, it seems I have insufficient leg room. I've compromised in my preferred arm and legroom settings long enough that I'm no longer bothered by it, though. My suspicion is that Hyundai's designers are engineering the ergonomics more in line with the average home market physique and letting the rest of the world tough it out. To some degree I had the same complaint with my Accord, too. I see Honda now has a tilt AND telescoping steering wheel for the '03 Accords. A telescoping steering wheel on the Sonatas would defintely help in my opinion. (I presume you ARE aware that the Sonata DOES have a tilting steering wheel, aren't you? Adjusting that has helped some on my car.)

I find the ride quality of my car is mostly comfortable, but small SHARP jolts seem to come through rougher than on my former Accord. Seems to me that Hyundai could soften the shocks' compression settings for the first 1/2" of travel without unduly compromising the handling qualities.

As for the audio system, I've read auto enthusiast magazine reports on test Sonatas that cover the gamut - from complaints about the "tinny" sound quality that you suggest, to accolades about "the surprisingly robust bass and sweet highs" of the stock sound system. My experience favors the latter description, but, my music tastes run from classical to new age played at moderate levels. I wonder if someone who rented the car you drove had run the system full tilt on some bass heavy hip-hop and damaged the speakers. From what I can see in the trunk of the magnet structures on the rear deck's 6x9s, these are not premium high-power capable speakers. Someone else on this forum replaced all four OEM speakers with some premium Sony units and now he's ecstatic with the sound quality. For what it's worth, I babied mine during break-in (Hyundai calls for reduced speeds for a full 1,200 miles!), and it seems to have paid off. At just under 6,000 miles, I'm getting 25+ mpg in the city and 32+ mpg on the highway. This is within 1 mpg of my Accord in the city and identical on the highway, and my Accord only had the 4 cylinder engine.

Let us know what you finally buy and give us a review. The fact that you'd at least considered a Sonata makes you welcome here anytime!

lngtonge18

Wow! You get 25 in the city and 32 on the highway?? You have given me high hopes for my 03 Tiburon V6. My first tank yielded 20.5 but my second tank saw a big improvement to 23.5 mpg in all city driving. I thought I was doing good, but you have me beat! If my Tiburon gets anywhere near your mileage, I will be extremely happy. What do you think of the shift quality of your automatic? Mine is a little clunky shifting at times and can get a little confused at light throttle but for the most part is smooth.

mocky

What should I expect from 2000 Sonata (4 cyl, auto, moonroof, CD-player) with 69,000 miles on it. It seems to be in good condition. Does it worth $5,500? Thanks!!! :-)))

ray_h71

Ingtonge, the biggest problem with the Tiburon is that it BEGS to be driven hard. <grin> You didn't mention how many miles you have on yours, so I don't know how far along it is in its break-in. There's no dry weight spec given for the Tiburons in the brochure, so I can't directly relate your car's weight to mine, However, the Tiburon brochure does list a 0-60 mph acceleration timing at 7.1 sec. (manual tranny). Consumer Guide's current "2003 Automobile Buying Guide" lists a 0-60 mph timing at 7.8 sec for the Sonata V6 (automatic) in their editors' testing. Given that an automatic tranny will exact a few tenths of a sec. penalty, my Kentucky Windage guess would be that if driven moderately, your Tiburon should do at least as well as my Sonata once well broken in. Your initial and subsequent calculated mileages were in line with what I experienced. My city driving is within posted speed limits. My highway driving is with the cruise control set at 70 mph. The Hyundai automatic transmission is -mostly- very smooth in my car. However the first 2-3 upshift when initially under way cold is usually abrupt in mine. Thereafter it settles in mostly buttery smooth for all ranges. Gentle acceleration, particularly up any type of grade, -may- also result in a bit less smoothness for any upshift. It hasn't gotten any worse, so I suspect these are just quirks of Hyundai ATs. If it's any consolation, the ONLY AT I've ever experienced that's consistently, and absolutely incredibly smooth under all temperature ranges and load conditions was a friend's 2001 Mercedes Benz 320-E. Half the time I couldn't tell a shift had taken place except by watching the tachometer needle drop. (Engine sound? WHAT engine sound?! Only under full throttle acceleration was there even a hint that somewhere in the next county, someone -might- be stoking the coals...) The rest of the time I "suffered" through an all but unnoticed nudge in the small of my back. One final note about the Hyundai ATs. They're totally under electronic control of the engine management system and customize their shift quality and timing according to your driving habits. It's possible yours is still "learning" its social skills from you. If you change your customary habits (a hard charge up a freeway onramp, perhaps?), it may become temporarily confused. If you ever disconnect or when you eventually replace the battery, the power interuption erases the learned algorithms and the education process starts all over again.

Mocky, your best bet is to log on to the Kelley Blue Book site. You can feed your car's particulars in and choose trade-in value or sell-it-yourself-to-a-private-party value and get a dollar estimate according to your location and the car's general condition. Be forewarned that piling up 23,000 miles per year will cost you. When my '96 Accord got totaled last November, I used that web site just for reference. When my insurance company finally called with a settlement offer they were under the Kelley valuation by about $125.00. I wasn't disappointed in the offer, but offhandedly mentioned what Kelley came up with. The adjuster matched it before I could say anything else. I decided not to argue with her...

ray_h71

Ingtonge, I misquoted the Sonata's acceleration spec. from the Consumer Guide "Automobile Buying Guide". The correct figure is 8.7 sec., not 7.8 sec as I stated above. With a nearly full second slower 0-60 mph time for the Sonata and probably well over a full second slower acceleration timing than your Tiburon, it's obvious the Tiburon is lighter in weight than the Sonata. This weight difference to the Tib's advantage suggests you shouldn't have any trouble matching, and probably surpassing, my Sonata's milege unless your right shoe has a lead sole. Sorry 'bout the mixup.

intrepidspirit

ingtonge18 and ray_h71:

When you are comparing mpg between the Sonata and Tiburon, don't forget that you have engines producing different horsepower levels. The 2.7 Sonata has 170 hp and the 2.7 Tiburon has 181.

I don't know if they are different engines or the same engine tuned differently, but this will definitely impact on mpg, especially in city driving...

lngtonge18

Intrepidspirit: There is no difference in output between Sonata and Tiburon. Both cars were rated at 181 and both were affected by the misprint and downgraded to 170. They also share the same automatic transmission.

Ray_h71: My Tiburon only has 670 miles so I know it has quite a ways to go before it fully breaks in. I was rather surprised by my 2nd tank of gas because my 00 Accent got as low as 24 mpg one time during its break-in even though it has a much smaller 4 cylinder. If my Accent and your Sonata are any indication, my Tib's fuel economy may end up impressing me a lot by the 10k mark. By the way, the Tib weighs 200 pounds less than the Sonata and is a little more aerodynamic, so that might help. But as you said, the Tib begs to be driven hard....:)

ray_h71

I found it interesting that when the 2002 Sonata, Santa Fe, and Kia Optima intro'd the revised "Delta" 2.7 liter V6 engine, the power was rated at 181 hp. and the torque rating was 170 ft.-lbs. Then when Hyundai discovered their "mistake", the output revision had the same numbers - just reversed. Coincidence or a typo? You decide. My own suspicion is that some advertising copy writer inadvertantly transposed the numbers in front of him/her and the fun began. There are STILL some owners belly-aching that their cars now have eleven horsepower less than what was "promised" in the early sales brochures... To paraphrase the late Fred Rogers, "Children, can you say, 'money'?" (It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood...) Equally interesting is that a similar sized Mercedes engine used in the C-240 sedan (2.6 liters, but actual displacement, 2597 cc, vs. Hyundai's actual displacement of 2656 cc - a real difference of 59 cc) outputs 168 hp. and 177 flt-lbs of torque. The baby Benz is rated at 2 hp. less and 4 ft-lbs less torque than the Sonata's V6, paltry to be sure, but needing premium unleaded 91 octane gasoline to achieve it! And this from a company noted for a reputation of class-leading engine design! The two cars' curb weights are within about 30 lbs of each other with very similarly rated powerplants. It's funny that I haven't heard any reports of C-240 owners complaining about insufficient power.

drmp

"haven't heard any reports of C-240 owners complaining about insufficient power"

Hahahaha. There are other c class board besides edmunds and people complain about it's lack of power or off-the-line punch. I myself is very disappointed when I drove one, it is lethargic from a dead stop. Sure you can speed once on the highway but the driving fun around town is zero. I would speculate that the sonata will have a better pick up from dead stop and when merging as commented by many owners.

ray_h71

I stand corrected by your personal experience and research, Drmp. I browsed through the December '02 issue of the "Consumer Guide Automobile Buying Guide" this afternoon and they reported their test C-240 took 9.2 sec. from 0-60 mph. And, that was with the manual transmission. That's a half second slower than the Sonata V6 with the automatic transmission. Most curious given the two cars' nearly equal curb weight and power plant output. Apparantly Korean horses are stronger than German ones. (Or, for whatever reason, either Hyundai is intentionally under-reporting their 2.7 liter V6 engine's true power, or Mercedes is intentionally detuning their 2.6 liter V6 engine's potential in an effort to "herd" buyers to the C-320...). According to Consumer Guide's numbers the Sonata 2.7 liter V6 even enjoys a fuel economy advantage over the baby Benz 2.6 liter V6. Thanks for posting. Do you have any personal impressions of the ride comfort between the two cars?

drmp

There are several factors I can think of why the c240 is comparably slower than sonata. I'll enumerate them;
1. Engine displacement, the bigger the displacement the more torque it has at lower rpm needed for off the line acceleration.
2. FWD v/s RWD, rear wheel drive has to overcome rotational inertia of the propeller shaft, plus the 90 degrees redirection of power from longitudinal to tranverse at the axle is less effcicient compared to parallel transfer of power in FWD.
3.Electronics, the more electronics involved (drive by wire) the more time is needed for the computer to think before it executes the fuel delivery (you got it, more delay in engine response). Many complained of disconnected throttle feel of the c240.

I have yet to test drive a sonata but the seating position and range of adjustibility is excellent. If it has a telescopic steering wheel, it can match the driving position of the c class. I read from many reviews that it transmits sharp road bumps like expansion joints but not as harsh as the accord.