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Comments
Thanks
my '02 sonata factory installed sunroof, no problems.
Thanks again
can you tell us how a sunroof that opens up and opens in is going to hold back 100 percent of a driving rain without a positive seal over a temperature range of about -20 to 120 degrees with totally different coefficients of expansion of metal and glass?
The drains are there to catch the seepage and the occasional 'oops I left it open'.
Any insight? Appreciate. P.
http://www.libero.co.kr/upload/tmc_psd/2169.jpg
http://www.libero.co.kr/upload/tmc_psd/2170.jpg
http://www.libero.co.kr/upload/tmc_psd/2171.jpg
http://bilder.autobild.de/bilder/1/41480.jpg
http://bilder.autobild.de/bilder/1/41481.jpg
http://bilder.autobild.de/bilder/1/41482.jpg
http://bilder.autobild.de/bilder/1/41483.jpg
http://bilder.autobild.de/bilder/1/41484.jpg
http://bilder.autobild.de/bilder/1/41485.jpg
Certainly, you cant judge a car by its pictures, but Hyundai continues to impress me.
Do we have any mechanical info on this model yet? Engines/transmissions/etc. Stability control and Curtains expected?
PZEV- thanks for the pics! Do you have any info on other vehicles?
~alpha
I see a profile like the Camry.
The interior looks very nice.
-juice
Why do car companies *insist* on making their cars looks exactly like all the other cars on the road? *sigh*
On the outside it does look more generic then the current EF Sonata. It also looks a little smaller as well but it is hard to tell from the pictures.
On the inside I love the dash layout. Simplicity at its finest. Also in one of the pictures it looks like it might have a GPS navigation system.
I am sure the 2005 Sonata will offer even more refinement over the current Sonata. Like many re designs they are not liked at first but then they start to grow on you.
One thing I noticed that needs to be improved on is the wheels. I wish the Asian manufactures would follow the European manufactures and put extra wide and low profile wheels. This would speak performance instead of economics.
As you know, I have been considering getting a 2004 Sonata LX, but I can't get the Elantra GT 5-door hatchback out of my head! I test-drove both of them, and I did prefer the ride of the Elantra better; the Sonata seemed a bit slow and loud. However, the Elantra seemed a bit "young" for me -- I prefer the elegance of sedans -- and quite frankly the color choice of the Elantra sucks. Still, the Elantra's price is, of course, a lot more attractive to me than the Sonata, though they both seem like a great value. I like that both have leather seats.
Can anyone give me the pros and cons to getting the Elantra GT hatchback vs. the Sonata LX? Things like insurance prices, maintenance, fuel economy, etc.? BTW, I do mostly city driving (short hops to and from work). Also, I am not at all interested in the Elantra 4-door sedan. Thanks!
Being accused of youth ain't so bad. ;-)
-juice
I have some, but you might have seen them already somewhere or aren't interested in them. Any particular cars in mind? I usually only pay attention to cars that I could afford or one day afford. BMWs, Ferraris, etc. I don't really pay attention to and don't bother with.
Is there a thread on Edmunds anywhere where people post spy pics of any and all cars or do people mainly just post them in the car's topic directly?
Just my 2 cents on the topic. Like you I do pay attention to crash scores. The problem is crashes are so different and so many variables are involved it's really hard to say how much safer an Accord for example would be over a Sonata.
Personally I think the Sonata is good enough with this that if you value the extra long warranty and lower price a lot, I would consider going for it.
Best thing to do is look at the specs and prices of the vehicles you're interested in and narrow it down from that. Then take what's left and go sit in them and test drive them.
I don't think the Sonata has side curtain airbags (the next one coming up in a year should though I think) and in some accidents that could make a world of difference. Also which car has better brakes may make a difference, or the one with better handling to avoid an accident altogether. If it was me I would try to find the best balance possible.
It's a video of the camouflaged Sonata posted above and shows it driving around in the desert and moving around in town. Looks pretty good.
(Specifically, if you have any info on the 05 Avalon, the 05 Tacoma, or the the 05 Camry refresh, thatd be cool. I think Honda's sedan lineup is quiet for 05, and finally, if you have anything on the 05 Altima refresh or the redesigned Sentra, thatd be awesome as well.)
Thanks!!
~alpha
and I've posted that the suspension was way too
soft compared to other sedans that I drove.
I think ray actually replied that Sonata is KNOWN
for its soft suspension.
Anyway, a few days ago, I've checked the tire
pressure, and it was only 30 psi. And that WAS
the manufacturere recommended setting, when actual Maximum pressure on the Michelin MXV+ was
44 psi.
I pumped it upto 35 psi, and what do you know....
It grips the road a lot tighter with great cornering without sacrificing much of the soft ride.
Anyway, I happened to avoid a close accident today when another car just stormed into my lane
from a middle of no where. My Sonata handled
superbly.
If you want a better suspension, pump up your tire a bit. Just a thought.
Charlie
2005 Camry and Tacoma
Haven't heard much about either of these. I'm not all that interested in trucks/SUVs so I don't really pay attention to stuff about the Tacoma. Rumors say there will be a hybrid version of the Camry but I have no idea how true that is.
2005 Nissan Altima
http://www.compugenius.com/hosted/2005altima2.jpg
Same as the Camry, just look for a minor refresh. The Altima will probably get a "tooth" grille like the rest of the Nissans and there's rumors the taillights will be changed to red from the current clear ones. Also rumors about the interior being upgraded, which it surely needs.
2005 Toyota Avalon
No pictures for this, but I've heard crazy rumors about this. Some people say it'll go RWD and have a more powerful engine than the Camry and ES330. My guess is it'll continue to be a Japanese Buick and stay FWD and styling will stay fairly conservative. This is purely a guess on my part though.
2005 Nissan Sentra
No spy pictures for this either. I would say the Nissan C-Note concept from the Tokyo show is a hint at what the Sentra will look like.
Other stuff
2005/2006 Volkswagen Jetta
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid67/p5bd29cca08991adad8cc- cf6ddf6e1234/fbd4ad85.jpg
Not sure how legit that is though.
2005 Chevrolet Cobalt
http://www.gminsidenews.com/spy2.jpg
Supposedly the car in the background may be the Cobalt, but not sure.
2005 Hondas
Like the Camry, rumors say the Accord will get a hybrid version at some point. Something that is pretty much confirmed though is Honda says by 2007 or so that 99% of their cars (excluding the Insight, S2000, NSX) will have STANDARD side air bags and side curtains and ABS. Also the trucks/SUVs will have stability control in addition to those things. This makes me believe that the next generation Civic and Accord will pretty much have standard SAB/SAC and ABS.
2005 Kia Spectra
I just posted some NA spec pictures over in the 2005 Spectra topic but it's really nothing special. Like a lot of these cars, it will be shown in Detroit next month so a lot of questions will be answered then. The Korean version has already been shown but it'll be interesting to see if the Spectra gets side curtains and what the price will be, etc.
2005 Lexus IS330 / Toyota Supra
Even though these are fairly expensive, I'm really interested to see what the next IS300 looks like. Seen lots of pictures but no actual spy pics except the ones of the V8 test mule. It has an IS300 shell on it so it's nothing special. Seems to me this may be the next IS300 with just the current IS300 body on it. They could possibly do what Nissan did with the G35 and Z car and have the IS and Supra share platforms and the V8 could go into the Supra. Toyota needs more youthful/sporty cars in their lineup and the Supra would help build some interest in the Toyota brand. Also I think the current engine is being dropped in favor of the 3.3 V6, possibly souped up a little more to be more sporty than the ES330.
2005 Ford Focus
Ford Media says the 2005 Focus will be shown sometime this week. It'll probably just be a refresh even though the car has been out since the 2000 model year. It'll keep the current platform until 2007-2010. Looks as if it won't use the Focus II platform like the European Focus and Mazda3 will use.
One thing that irks me- Honda is all proclaiming their new safety initiative, meanwhile, its gone almost unnoticed that effective for THIS, the 2004 MODEL YEAR, Toyota already made ABS and VSC, Toyota's stability control system, standard on EVERY SUV sold in the US, and all pickups have ABS. Ok, thats off my chest now.
thanks
alpha
Really VW is the pioneer, I think. Passat has had ABS and side curtain air bags standard for a while, plus stability control and AWD optional.
Hyundai has made great strides lately and I think offering this kind of level of safety may be what finalizes their move out of the bargain basement.
-juice
Subaru has had AWD and ABS standard ahead of Honda and Toyota- but I dont see AWD, at least for MANY regions of the US, as valuable as VSC. Toyota is the first non-premium automaker to make stability control and ABS standard on all its SUVs, the vehicle type that benefits most from said system, period. I DEFINITELY would like to see Toyota follow Subarus lead with ABS standard on all passenger cars. I agree with you about Hyundai- although it doesnt yet offer curtains, head and chest protection front SAB on all models is HIGHLY commendable.
~alpha
Toyota's SUVs cost more than the Passat, so I see that as less of a break through in terms of bringing safety features to the masses. And again, that was only recently, this year I think. Highlander didn't have ABS standard when we shopped for one in 2002.
The lowly Impreza TS wagon, at about $16k street price, did. AWD too.
Whoever does it first, it benefits us all as it puts pressure on manufacturers to offer these on more mainstream models, like the Camry and Sonata.
-juice
"Ray,
can you tell us how a sunroof that opens up and opens in is going to hold back 100 percent of a driving rain without a positive seal over a temperature range of about -20 to 120 degrees with totally different coefficients of expansion of metal and glass?
The drains are there to catch the seepage and the occasional 'oops I left it open'."
Sure - the same way the windshield is designed not to leak - the sealing material's elasticity will maintain water tightness despite the differing coefficients of expansion. That there may be
-some- seepage past the sunroof's sealing under -some- conditions is irrelevant. I simply objected to the claim that the seepage was an intentional design factor. The drainage channel you noted, however, IS a design factor to accomodate the water intrusion if and when it occurs. Now, nato1, can YOU tell us why Hyundai, or any other car builder for that matter, would
-intentionally- design a sunroof assembly to leak?
Just now on the Hyundai site, I saw they updated their incentives for December. One of the things added for the Sonata is this:
"2004 Triple Play Sonata Lease
Lease a 2004 Hyundai Sonata for $179/month, 12,000 miles/year. $0 customer security deposit. This program is effective from December 2, 2003 through January 2, 2004."
OMG! This was not there before. It is brand new.
Yes, I know this will be a base model. But geez, if they are at least advertising a lease, should I at least be hopeful that I can get something decent on the 2004 LX? Say, $1,000 down, about $250 a month?
I can dream, can't I?
I mean, I have resorted to considering a lease on a 2004 Chevy Malibu because GM has sent me so many combinable certificates, they are practically giving me the car.
But I don't want a GM. I really want the Hyundai. If I could lease it and keep my down payment and monthly payments low -- which is what I really need to be doing right now -- it would be the ideal.
Any insights on this new addition to the incentives? Thanks!
Now I need your unbiased opinion: I am *extremely* torn between the 2004 Hyundai Sonata LX and the 2004 Chevy Malibu LT. Price is now not a factor, because the lease payment will be virtually the same, given all the incentives I have received from GM.
My own pros and cons:
> I prefer the look (exterior and interior) of the Hyundai.
> I prefer the ride and handling of the Chevy.
> Chevy has more hp.
> Hyundai has a better warranty ... but is that because I'll need the warranty?
> I like that the Hyundai has a cassette player.
> There are more Chevy dealerships near me than Hyundai, so servicing will be less of a hassle with Chevy.
> Hyundai has side airbags, but Chevy has head curtain side airbags and ABS.
> Insurance is cheaper on the Chevy.
Ugh, I am just so torn. Your help is very much appreciated. I am posting this on the Chevy Malibu board, too. Thanks!
Sonata is rated 7th and Optima 10th. Sonata/Optima is ancient in the car world. Dates back to '98 when introduced as a MY99.
As CR puts it, 2.7L V6 is a bit smallish and underpowered for the weight. Their Optima was the slowest car (0-60 mph in 9.1 seconds) and got the worst fuel economy (20 mpg overall: 13 city and 29 highway). It is projected to use the most fuel.
Hyundai needs to update the Sonata/Optima and not a moment too soon. Needs better safety equipment (e.g., curtain airbags), more powerful optional engine, and 5-speed automatic transmission.
At least reliability is OK for Sonata. They don't project for Malibu or Optima.
Have you considered looking at an Optima lease? Might be less expensive.
I drove a Sonata V6 and Malibu V6 back to back at the Chevy intro event. I like the Hyundai's styling better, inside and out. The 'bu is quicker and more efficient. The Sonata is softer, seems more luxurious, while the 'bu is a little sportier.
Both are a good value, but drive them both, I think they differ enough in character that you will have a clear favorite.
-juice
Only problem to date is the Check Engine Light came on when it had about 800 miles on it. It was the O2 Sensor and it was promply replaced under warrantee. No other problems to date.
I find the car continues to ride nicely and seems to have more power now then when new. Fuel economy has been a steady 22 miles per gallon.
Only interior anomoly to date is a buzz located in the radio area. I have tried poking around trying to isolate it but have failed to find it. Only time it shows up is when driving on coarse pavement. We have lots of coarse pavement from studded snow tires and high traffic. For the record my father's Toyota Camry does the same exact thing on coarse roads. I might mention it next time I take it in but in my experience they usually create 10 more rattles trying to fix the first rattle.
Everyone who rides in it just loves it. They admire the nice ride and quiet engine. Plus the style turns a lot of heads. It looks and drives like a much more expensive car.
I would say that Hyundai offers a very good value with this car.
#@%&ed buzz or rattle is -really- coming from. I just lucked into it in my case. Whether your resonnance problem is the same as mine could only be verified by examination, but, just a heads-up in case you want to bring it to the attention of your dealer's service writer.
It seems odd that the end piece could cause a rattle sound in the center console but you never know. With the shape of the dashboard the sound can travel and be coming from just about enything.
It definently sounds like a loose piece of plastic that is resonating against another piece of plastic.
What kind of problems can one expect to see with the sonata?
Mine is a rare V6 5-speed manual. She has Pkg 13, which includes leather, sunroof, and traction control. She has been an absolute joy to own. So much so that I paid her off early. She is all mine. I plan on keeping her for a long, long time!
Check out the latest and future Consumer Reports reliability data. Has been pretty good for '00 and later Sonatas.
You have hit the one weak spot: resale value. But if you keep for ever it isn't a problem; if you buy one used, you get a great car at a low, low price.
Will be trading in my well-cared-for '99 Malibu next summer for either a '04 Sonata LX or a Malibu LT. Have GM MC credits, so the warranty is no biggie, any thoughts? Thanks. No rush.
I've gotten a hold of the Hyundai warranty booklet, courtesy of a friend and Elantra owner, and have read thru the warranty. Am troubled by some of the exceptions, most notably the lack of rental reimbursement.
Solution appears to be to purchase a Hyundai Advantage plan (they come in 6/75,000 and 10/100,000 varieties). I know that GM and Honda charge around $1,000 for their plans, depending on length of coverage.
Any one know how much Hyundai charges for theirs? Am a bit afraid to see the answer. Much higher than $1,000 will knock the Sonata off the short-list.
Thanks.
"Trip Interuption Benefit: In the event a warrantable mechanical disablement occurs more than 150 miles away from home, and your vehicle is disabled overnight due to a repair in progress, Hyundai Roadside Assistance will reimburse for reasonable expenses for meals, lodging, or ALTERNATE TRANSPORTATION [emphasis mine]. Trip Interutption Benefit is limited to $100 per day subject to a three-day maximum limit per incident. It is required that you contact Hyundai Roadside Assitance to obtain preauthorization of eligibility."
The above coverage extends to 5 yrs./60,000 miles, matching the basic Hyundai inclusive warranty in duration. I trust you're already aware that Hyundai also provides for a powertrain warranty extension to 10 yrs./100,000 miles. All of these warranties and the Trip Interuption Benefit are provided by Hyundai, America at no additional charge. I'll leave it to you to ponder the math about whether a warrantable blown engine or trannie at, say, 70,000 miles -without- car rental reimbursement is better financially to you than -paying- for the engine or trannie exchange and getting reimbursed for car rental. (You probably won't need a spreadsheet...
I have a short list of about 5 vehicles that I'm considering, including the Sonata. Also aware that a new one is due next spring ('05) (but US produced, for better or worse). Most of the others are GM products and I get the GM Extended Warranty for "free" via my GM Card Earnings. So, the spreadsheet is unnecessary, but I get your point. Prob is GM is being cheap with rebates right now on the competition.
I'm a busy guy, and don't want to have to sit at a dealer for a 4-hour power window regulator fix (for example). With GM, I'd get an immediate rental. That's why the Hyundai Advantage Plan is under the scope. Not concerned about trip interruption; the few vacations I manage are all via airplane.