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Comments
I agrree.
the two se v6 s I saw had the BBS wheel package ( $1700) with either 55 or 45 series tires ( I do not want that)
anyone ever see V6 se s with stock alloys and 60 series tires??
ssiu, If I remember correctly, you were very interested in crash tests- what did you think of the IIHS side impacts? I was happy the Camry's structure held up better overall than the Accords, and happily surprised that the Galant was so strong.
re: SE V6s with BBS- I've never seen any in this region. Are the BBS's prevalent in the SE? That region is notorious for add-ons. Seriously, all the SEs at dealerships and on the road wear the slick Toyota 5 spokes. SE 4s without the alloy option are also incredibly rare around here- though I have seen a few.
~alpha
Does it give you plenty of verbal warning when a turn in coming up?
Can the passenger make changes to a destination while the car is in motion?
How does it compare to the Lexus ES 330 system?
Any other thoughts on the O4 Navigation system?
The added cost and tradeoffs for the XLE doesn't seem worthwhile to me. I'll either special order the '05 SE Nav or select another vehicle.
The new Ford 500 looks like a good bet, but I'm leery of first year designs, especially from Ford.
If you can wait for the 2005 SE, it should be very sweet. Some significant upgrades are in store. (Optitron instrumentation, more agressive wheels and tires, revised front and rear styling, mildly revised instrument panel, etc.)
~alpha
I'm surprised how disinterested salespeople get when I tell them I'll be in the market in 6 months or so. Don't they think they'll still be at the dealership? Maybe not.
we have been on test drives on sat when the salesman said the place was like a family to him.
On Monday we call and he is not there any more.
I drove a new SE last week and thought it was ok
You should also check out the Car and Driver Long Term review of the 2002 Camry 192hp SE V6. Raves, and no issues. (I think its in the 11/03 issue)
~alpha
--18fan
ABS seems to be safer in TX, where we can some rain, 3 days of ice, and mostly dry ... however, the crazies are happy to pull in front of you, causing an emergency stop. so ABS is worth it to me ... even if only once :-)
Preference: Based on my current experience, you might call around the country before you preference, to see if you can get the NAV function. [Post 6781?].
On the 4 CYL [LE & SE ?], I think that Steel Wheels are a no cost standard ... but getting them is a completely different issue.
I do think it a a big business mistake for Toyota to offer options and slap customers in the face, when we want to pick and choose.
I purposely chose the 2004 over the 2002, because Toyota has a long history of improving mistakes, rattles, etc. with each successive year. That said, I haven't driven a 2004 for the 2000 miles that it takes for the rattles to surface.
BTW, regardless of your preference of SE or XLE, go test drive both. I like the LE ride better'n the SE (I want soft comfort), but I figure I can buy a cheap seat cushion at AutoZone. I'll also have to get a dog seat cover for my dog ... who just turned belly up and barked, "Pet me!"
- Hank2
Steel wheels are standard on all 2004 Camry 4-cyls, and alloys are standard on all V6s. All LEs have 15" wheels and all SE/XLEs have 16" wheels. Anything different is miserable non-OEM junk installed by the regional distributor, not the factory.
SEs can be hard to find with steel wheels as they are not offered that way in most regions. XLEs with steel wheels are common in some regions and not in others. Pretty much all LE-4s have steel wheels.
-Andrew L
alloys are just a way the mfg add cost without adding value.
Nav is another one
as is the homelink system.
The added value may only be perceived to you, but it can be real value to others. I agree that alloy wheels may only add eye appeal. But they may be an added value to some buyers, if not to you.
Navigation - to those of us who use it in our business - is definitely an added value. Over 5 years I may save enough gas and SURELY even more TIME with the DVD Navigation than with out. It's safer than referring to a road atlas, as well. Especially at night. I can say that if I have the money in the future, I would not buy a car without Navigation. It is a definite value to many of us.
People used to say that CD players didn't add any value, but it's hard to find a car without one these days. In 10 or 15 years, you might have a hard time finding a new car without NAV, especially if the prices continue to drop.
And if the Homelink system saves me one lost or misplaced hand-held transmitter, then that may be enough added value to me to justify the cost.
Edh, tell us, what are your thoughts on power steering and brakes. That power steering pump sure is a couple hundred to replace. Does fuel injection rile you up? Nothing like multiple bbls, right?
alpha
Homelink is fine but its just a frill added to the standard model to help justify another $4000 for the XLE (or whatever upgrade) model.
Especially alpha01, talk about dousing a flame with gasoline ... remember those comments when he tells you to sit on it :-)
I ordered Steel Wheels because I'm cheap. I have been told that Alloys leak air (They used to many years ago, but I can't believe that is still a problem), that they are lighter (I believe that, but I think simply opening a window has more effort on gas mileage), and that over the long haul they are less resistant to damage and bending than steel (I think the salesman was trying to deceive me by embellishing the facts, and leaving out the results.)
NAV and Homelink - I agree with both. If you drive for a living, they are lots better than MAPSCO or Maps. But if you are like me, then you commute most of the time. In the morning, I just get in my car and press the WORK button. Then after work I press the HOME button... with little variation except for the weekend. Those buttons are very expensive.
-hank2
Reduced weight.
By reducing weight, alloy wheels provide more precise steering input and improved "turning in" characteristics.
Improved Acceleration and Braking
By reducing the weight of the vehicle's rotational mass, alloy wheels provide more
responsive acceleration and braking.
Cooler Brakes
Alloy wheels improve heat dissipation from the brakes - reducing risk of brake fade.
Alloy wheels can allow more cooling air to flow over the brakes.
No, I haven't had any NAV repairs and hopefully I won't. I haven't had to repair the automatic transmission yet either, but I still like it over my dad's stick shift which was certainly less expensive than my automatic.
I haven't had to repair my AC unit yet, but it gets awful hot when I don't have it on. I'm sure some people used to think that AC was a "frill" and added no value. Few think that way today.
I have heated outside mirrors? Is that a frill? To some they would be. I live in icy winter conditions, so I think they may be good for me.
I have friends that think automatic windows are a frill and they only get roll-up windows. Frill to them; added value to me.
I guess all I'm saying is that you can't make the blanket statement that these things add NO value.
And why do you guys always have to ask "what dealers do you guys work at?" That's getting pretty old. Think of something original. I've never worked in the automotive industry and I would bet most of us on these forums have not.
Some of the fanciest makes (BMW, Porsche) make stripped sport versions with no power accesories for reduced weight. No A/C, no radio etc. I think the new Mitsu does the same, and maybe a version of the WRX.
The car is running great and my fluid levels for oil and tranny are good...actually, they might be a little over-filled...
I bought this car used in 2002 and it NEVER dropped an ounce of anything in my driveway or garage until I had it serviced last week...now it seems that each time I leave a parking space, there is fluid on the ground...roughly the length of the drive train.
I took it back to Monro and the mech said he thinks it's just excess from when he changed the oil...I guess he made a mess under there. I'd be inclined to agree if it only happened the first day or two, but it's almost a week later and there are still signs of some leakeage (although this morning I didn't see any new).
I am not very educated with auto engines....someone help me out here. If the fluid levels are too high, will there be leaking? I reasoned that the fluids get hot and expand and they have no place to go, so they could leak from seals or openings and you wuld notice this once the car is parked after driving it for a while?
I will keep checking my levels...and hopefully tomorrow morning will be like today, no fluid on the garage floor...
If anyone can give me some advice/info, I'd greatly appreciate it...THANKS!
No guarantees, but one of the links posted was:
http://www.toyotaautoparts.com. You can call them to see their price.
If you go to Google, and enter:
camry "battery ground cable" you will get some Sponsored links on the right side to explore.
Finally - the best for last - Try the local CarMax, AutoZone, and Junk Yards...with some research in the Yellow Pages and a little elbow grease, you might find a totalled 95 Camry with a cable in perfect condition.
Tell us where you ultimately find it.
-Hank2
"Alloys leak air (They used to many years ago, but I can't believe that is still a problem)"
This is still a problem on certain wheels, namely chrome plated or machined wheels that tend to corrode as they age. It's the corrosion on the tire bead mounting surface that causes air loss. I wouldn't call this a major problem in general though, except for certain vehicles (mid-90s Fords and late-90s Chryslers have big problems with this issue).
"that they are lighter (I believe that, but I think simply opening a window has more effort on gas mileage)"
Alloy wheels are lighter if they are lighter :-) That is, it is absolutely possible to INCREASE the weight of your wheels by switching from 15" steels to 18" alloys. Generally, alloy wheels are lighter than steel wheels of the same size, but even that is not always true.
"and that over the long haul they are less resistant to damage and bending than steel"
This is absolutely true and is the main reason why I tell people not to buy alloys. Toyota OEM alloys are usually of pretty good quality, but it's a pretty well established fact that alloys in general are more easily damaged and harder to repair than steels. Try calling a Toyota (or whatever) dealer and ask about the replacement cost on an OEM alloy wheel. You will not believe what you hear.
-Andrew L
I dont understand this statement "Try calling a Toyota (or whatever) dealer and ask about the replacement cost on an OEM alloy wheel. You will not believe what you hear."
We paid about $400, including free wheel locks (took some negotiating, we were told list was $559 installed w/o locks... but we didnt want an LE with those nasty wheelcovers, so basically the dealer saw it for what it was- a deal- maker/breaker).
How much could it be to replace them?
~alpha
Your VIN (Vehicle Identification Number) is a combination of 17 letters and numbers, the VIN System Identification is the following:
1st digit - world source
2nd digit - manufacturer
3rd digit – type of vehicle
4th digit – body/drive type
5th digit - engine
6th digit - series
7th digit – restraint system/grade
8th digit – car line
9th digit - internal use
10th digit - model year
11th digit - plant code
The last six digits - serial number of the vehicle
FWIW,
-hank2
List price on a 2003 Camry XLE alloy wheel is $357.82. Yes, FOR ONE. I guess I'm biased, since I'm in the hubcap business, but it always boggles my mind when people tell me they bought alloy wheels to avoid replacing wheel covers. You could buy 17 used wheel covers for the price of replacing one alloy wheel, and you are already starting out $500 in the hole, because you paid extra for the alloys in the first place.
If you like the way the wheels look and you know what you're getting, then I can't complain. And, like I said, Toyota OEM alloys are among the best quality wise. But I just like to point out to people that alloy wheels don't really make sense from a practical standpoint, particularly if you live in New Jersey like me, where the DOT has no detectable budget and the roads are one step up from Afghanistan.
-Andrew L
I really cant believe that is the price for one alloy, when our set cost about $400, and they threw in wheel locks. Like I said, OEM, Split 5 Spoke...they were installed Post Production, after we had the car. I guess I should just be very happy with the deal we got. Our pretty Stratosphere Camry looked like it went on extreme makeover after we had them installed- we had the hubcaps for about 3 weeks or a month, I suppose.
~alpha
My brother bought one of the first Mercury Sables built back in December of 1985 and they had to do a dealer swap for it. He wanted the alloys but the particular car didn't have it. So, the salesperson wrote in the sales agreement that they would sell my brother the wheels separately for the option price(about $110 if memory serves).
Well the car is delivered and he goes to buy the wheels and the parts department hands him an invoice for $750!!! The over the counter cost for the wheels. After a very forthright discussion with the owner of the dealership, he agreed that it was a contract and honored it. The salesperson did get a lecture on who approves contracts at the dealership. So the quote for the XLE wheel doesn't suprise me.
I think it is really a stying issue more than anything. Case in point, I never wanted alloys on my '92 Camry LE. The Hubcaps were really nicer than the available alloys that year, plus I did have to replace one of the caps and ended up buing three used covers on eBay for $30. (two spares for the price of one new from the dealer)
However, on my 02 SE I HAD to have the solid 5 spokes when I ordered. Very sharp. And easy to clean. Worth the cost to me because of looks alone.
I also use a separate set of rims for my Blizzak snow tires, so I kept searching eBay and found a set taken off of a brand new SE with less than 100 miles. The owner wanted 18 inch wheels. I got the wheels, lugs and tires for $600 shipped. A good deal. I've seen lots of Toyota alloys on eBay, so if you did mess one up it is a good alternative to the dealer.
By the way alpha01 Stratosphere Mica is THE color for the camry, IMHO.
Toyota should really cosider this for all their steelies.
The Sandman :-)
alpha-
I haven't actually been in NJ for a couple months (I go to college in PA), but when I was there in March it was the worst I've ever seen. 24 and 78 en route to Newark Airport were in awful shape, and 46 east of 287 was terrible too.
As for the accessory wheels you bought...I think the official Toyota price for a set of accessory wheels is ~$600. It's when you need to replace ONE wheel that they hit you really hard, particularly a few years down the road, when that style is no longer available as an accessory.
jdeib-
Yeah, eBay is a good source for just about everything. You can get a great deal on sets of hubcaps/wheels/center caps/etc. for very late model cars there, because all the new take-offs end up there. This stuff gets very hard to find 5-10 years down the road, so it's always smart to buy spares.
sandman-
Argh, are you trying to put me out of business :-) Seriously though, no wheel cover is perfect. I frequently find the bolt-on Honda caps on the road, because people don't understand how to install them, and they pound them down over the lugs. Also, some recent bolt-on and locking caps ("bolt-on" means held on by the actual wheel nuts, whereas "locking" means there are secondary nuts that hold just the hubcaps on) have been exhibiting problems with making noise on the wheel, because there is nothing holding the outer edge down. If you run into this problem with your Sentra, the solution is to remove the hubcaps and lay a bead of silicone caulk around the inner edge of the hubcap. Reinstall them after it dries, and they will not rattle anymore.
Anyway, whatever type of wheel covers or center caps you have, if they are installed properly you will probably never have a problem. The vast majority of the caps I find on the road came off because of incorrect installation - retaining rings popped out of place, bent clips, locking nuts not fastened down, bolt-on covers pounded down over the lugs, etc.
-Andrew L
~alpha
Side/curtain airbags and ABS are still optional on the Standard model though.
Seems like a waste to me, seeing as you could get an LE with no options and get the same exact thing as the Standard.
) If Toyota sells the 'Standard' edition mostly to fleets, then resale values of other trim lines should come up, as those trim lines will not be flooded in the second hand market.
OR
2) If Toyota sells the 'Standard' mostly to consumers, it would be able to alleviate the rebate pressure from the LEs (primarily), which would likely allow for lower rebates across the line (SEs, LE Limiteds, and XLEs).
~alpha
Deke
I'm not a slow driver by any means and I can tell you that I do not regret having the 4 cyl at all. My car could cruise at 70 mph and have plenty of power if I needed to accelerate from there. The engine does not rev nearly as high as the one on my 92. You need to take one on an extended test drive. The mileage is good and you will be amazed how many passengers will be suprised to learn that the car has a 4 cyl.
However, the 3.3 6cyl engine in the SE is great. You can't go wrong either way.