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Just because you don't get good mileage (you certainly may have an issue with your car), would you please quit telling everyone else that they don't get good mileage? Your experience may not be the norm. Probably is not.
I haven't driven much since I last spoke on this topic, but since April 2004 I have driven 11,595 in a new 2004 XLE V6 automatic. I have PAID Amoco (exclusively) for 410.41 gallons of gas. This includes an even amount of city and highway driving. Take 11,595 miles, divide by 410.41 gallons PAID FOR, and you get 28.25 AVERAGE MPG. It's really pretty simple math.
Unless you are telling me that Amoco is giving me MORE gallons than I've paid for (which I doubt they do), then the 410 gallons purchased is a good number. If they are giving me fewer gallons than their pumps show, then my mileage would be EVEN HIGHER than 28.25 MPG.
On freeway only driving, I consistently average 33-35 mpg. City is about 22.
I don't mean to be argumentative, and I have no horse in this race. But why would I tell you I'm averaging 28.25 MPG, if I'm not? I'd be just as frustrated as you appear to be. I DO like my car, except for a few annoying rattles. And if you can prove that I have any links to Toyota - direct or otherwise - I'll do fifty push ups. "Guessing" that I do, or these other "characters" do, doesn't count.
Now it's also possible that my car is not the norm, as yours may not be. But please quit saying everyone is lying or a shill for the manufacturer when they state better MPG than you are getting. It's really annoying.
Following solara00's example, I bought 424.1 gallons of 87 octane gas over 11,408 miles for an overall mpg of 26.9. Interestingly, Consumer Reports lists 24 mpg for its overall rating for the '05 Camry 4 cyl., with new 5-speed auto.
I didn't do as much highway traveling as him, but on my trips to NYC, Pittsburgh, and the beach on the Virginia eastern shore, I got 32-38 mpg on 6 different fill-ups (2 pairs were back-to-back, BTW, and the 32-mpg run included a good amount of driving in the beach town). I also got one 41 mpg run, which I don't necessarily believe because I didn't fill it myself (in New Jersey, which prohibits self-serve).
For shorter highway trips to Wash, DC on 4-lane but not limited-access highways, I got 30-31 mpg on 3 fill-ups (2 were back-to-back).
Unless you continuously record mileage, I would put no validity in the individual outliers of 32-38 mpg; two fillups is doesn't increase the accuracy of the estimate much beyond a single fillup - because of the underfill bias I already mentioned in my previous post would still influence the estimate. Your 41 mpg individual estimate illustrates that point.
You don't say, for example, what you got on the fillups between the ones which didn't produce the 30+ mpg.
As far as your overall estimate of 26.9, that is believable for predominantly freeway miles, much more so than the 32 mpg put in the suspicious post.
When you say "good amount in a beach town", what is that relative amount, in miles driven, to the miles driven on freeway to get to the beach. You could spend two hours driving 40 miles at 20 miles an hour, then four hours driving 320 miles at 80 miles an hour. That's not 2/3 freeway; that's about 85% freeway driving.
no offense, but yours is a totally different engine and gear ratio than the model I have, or that was reported on in the consumer rating. really not comparable, except to say that it isn't the 32 mpg.
If you read back on this thread, you will see quite a few, sub-par MPG posts - not me - and by the way, I've tested more than my own car too. And Toyota has inspected my car, as I've previously stated, and claims that it gets 21 mpg city and 33 freeway - something that the gas receipts prove I never got within 3 mpg of. They refused to investigate it further unless there is a computer error code. They will get it again soon - I will report back on the results.
It's time to stop accusing folks of being less than straightforward or less than accurate just because they are getting better mileage than you do.
You've made your point - let's move on now.
Its all about trying to figure out what is really going on in those cars and what really makes the difference in mileage between one and the other.
Mine is a 2002 XLE Camry Automatic 4 Cyl. As I said in my first posting in the beginning of this conversation I have averaged an ACTUAL PAID for 21 MPG over a total distance of 6 consecutive fill ups, in mixed driving.
You may say that there could be differences should I do more fill ups. But as it stands this car is a gas guzzler.
I simply need to know what really makes the difference between one car and the other of the same brand and make.
Is it the gas brand, maybe.
Is it related to engine tuning, maybe.
Is it weather, I doubt.
For business purposes (and just for the heck of it), I keep an Excel spreadsheet of my fuel purchases for any vehicle I use on my job. I track all mileage whether it is business or personal. So I'm really not giving you any particular tank fill up when I'm stating my average is 28.25 mpg for the V6 auto since April.
Since April 23rd, I have had 35 fill ups. Whether I fill completely, or not, isn't meaningful in my calculations because I'm taking ALL my miles and dividing by the TOTAL gallons Amoco is charging me for shown on the receipts I keep.
In those 35 fill ups, I have purchased 410.41 gallons of Amoco Silver (mid-grade) fuel which I think is 89 octane. (On my other Camrys I have seemed to do better with the mid grade, so I go with that grade. At 10 cents more per gallon, I think it's worth it, but just a guess there.)
If you take the 410.41 gallons into 11,595 miles driven since April, you get 28.25 mpg on average. Now if I was just quoting that between two fill ups, that number would be meaningless. But taken over 9 months, I think it's a good number.
By the way, the 410 gallons totaled $827.73 for an average of $2.02 per gallon. Although gas is down to about $1.76 for mid grade where I live, I did pay as much as $2.12 per gallon in the summer, which results in the $2.02 average price per gallon.
This is my average and I wouldn't begin to speak for anyone else with 4 or 6 cylinders, manual or automatic. I doubt mid grade makes much difference, but I can't say about that.
I know our gracious host is understandably tired of this topic and I promise not to post on it again. But I did want it to be clear that my average mpg is taken over a period of 9 months and I'm not sticking up for Toyota or anyone else. Just my particular facts. Thanks!
1. Amoco Silver (easy to find and, no, I don't shill for them either!)
2. Always try to fill before tank gets below 3/4 full.
3. Usually no speeding.
4. No jackrabbit starts.
5. The Raw Egg under the accelerator pedal.
6. Few passengers, trunk usually empty.
7. Luck?
So far I'm getting 28.25 mpg. Now if I could just get these rattles fixed!
But overall, I'm pretty happy with the Camry purchase. Wanted to wait for the 2005 Avalon, but circumstances would not let me. Trying to get my better half to trade our 2000 Red Solara SLE V6 when the Avalon comes out, but she loves that Red Solara paint and won't even discuss trading. Such is life........
I have a 2004 4Cyl Camry SE Auto with 7500 miles.
I drive 30 miles each way at ~65 MPH, everyday. I get between 26 - 27 MPG. I get about 24 MPG when the majority of my driving is city.
I've never gotten over 28 MPG. Is this a problem with the car or the driver? I'd love to get 35 MPG.
Should I ask the dealer to look into setting the computer? Any knowledge about how the computer works and how it learns?
Thanx,
- Hank2
I definitely think the leather seats are more comfortable.
Glendo
Our 02 LE 4A consistently averages between 26 and 28 MPG in a mix of highway, and stop-go highway, but not very much actual around town driving (right now).
~alpha
There has to be some difference between the cloth vs. leather seats because the 2003-04 cloth seats scored a "marginal" rating in the Insurance Institute's for Highway Safety's new whiplash tests. The 2003-04 leather seats scored a "poor" rating.
Also, the 2003-04 seats must be different from the 2005 seats because the latter are not included in the whiplash ratings. (And many other cars do have 2005 model ratings.)
The XLE cloth seats are no different from the LE seats in any 2003-05 models (except maybe for the fabric covering on the '05s).
All of the above seats should be easily interchangeable with the seats in your car.
However, I don't think it's a simple matter to order a COMPLETE replacement seat -- I'd check with the dealer first.
I was passing a propane semi-truck at 65MPH on I-270. As I was passing him, he started coming into my lane. I swerved to miss, but the car lost control and I was weaving left and right until I slammed into the back tires/wheels on the side of the semi.
After I hit the semi, I did a 360 and ended up stopping horizontally across the interstate with three lanes of traffic! I was extremely lucky that no oncoming cars hit me, nor that I flipped or went under the truck.
As for how the car held up, well the front center, front passenger, and passenger front quarter panel regions were smashed. My engine blew, pieces from the under the hood (i.e. windshield fluid holder) flew out, I was leaking antifreeze, and had a small crack in the windshield. My front passenger tire was destroyed. The driver side received no damage, except for a dent by the door (by the force of the impact). She was a beautiful car, too, and I feel it took the hit VERY well.
As for me, I have NO INJURIES AT ALL. I am not even in pain. My airbags did not go off. Mind you, I slammed into the side of a semi at 65MPH. Because of the truck driver's failure to see if someone was coming could've had me EASILY killed.
The truck driver works for a company and was hauling propane. He was very apologetic and asked if I was alright. I said I was fine and I stayed calm. This guy realized it was his fault and admitted to not seeing me coming. He was cited, I was not. Hopefully, the company's insurance settles this fairly. I hope to get it at least payoff for the damage (if totaled).
I don't know what to get for my next car, but I do know this: things happen in life. You never know what can happen and when it does, it can change your life. For me, I was 100% lucky. And for anyone looking to get a Camry, GET ONE. THEY WILL SAVE YOUR LIFE!
- Alex
Glad to hear you got out of that accident unscathed!
I lost control of a 93 Camry LE in similar situation, veering to avoid merging traffic. The car bobbed up and down violently from left to right for about 30 seconds. I really thought it would roll over.
Dealer said the FWD design and possible weak struts caused the oscillation, but they are not sure until they replicate the accident.
Good luck!
Glad to hear that you're OK. The problem with replacing a Toyota in the Central Ohio area (I assume by the accident happening I-270 that you're in Columbus, OH), is that I've not found a Toyota dealer that I'd like to do business with. Major sleaze vibes every time I've tried buying a Toyota...
My next car will probably be a 2005 Toyota Corolla S or LE. That car has excellent crash ratings as well. A Mitsubishi Lancer or Galant sounds good to me too, because of the fabulous warranty and free scheduled maintenance.
My insurance spoke with the company's insurance, and the driver of the semi is to talk with the company's insurance manager tomorrow. Do you all think it was his fault? I did lose control of my car, but it was because he cut me off and I swerved to miss. Would you all agree to be his fault?
Thanks!
- Alex
Not that I'm disputing yours, but we just don't know what he saw and how he reacted.
Were you on the left of the trucker or the right when passing? As I understand it, truckers have a lot of difficulty seeing vehicles directly on the right side of their rig and also directly behind it.
I guess all I'm trying to say is that you are asking an unanswerable question, assuming that you want objective feedback - it can't happen in this kind of setting.
But again, I'm very glad you are okay - when you get right down to it, who cares who was at fault or what happened. What you went through could very well have left you dead. It did not, so my advice to you is to just go on and deal with what has to be dealt with, keeping in mind your - and your family's - good fortune.
Good luck with your new car search. In case you haven't found them, let me mention that we have discussions on the Galant and the Lancer that you may find helpful. You can find them using the Make/Model drop down search on the left side of the page.
Keep us posted on how everything goes.
Pat
I appreciate everyone's feedback and hope this gets resolved fairly. I do think I will stick with a Toyota product, because they have so good to me and my family.
Thanks!
- Alex
I have an '04 Camry 4-cyl. automatic with side airbags and am quite happy with it - no rattles, hesitation, or pulling to one side.
You put the risk out of your mind until something like this happens. Glad you're OK Alex. Sounds scary. At least you got a good story out of it.
At the bottom of the radiator there is a butterfly valve. When open, the coolant will run out of the small rubber hose below the valve.
There is another valve on the engine block, which is hard to get to, to release coolant in the engine block. Please consult the owner's manual for locations.
The coolant is extremely poisonous, should be collected and recyled at part stores.
Use only distilled/rev osmosis water in correct proportion with coolant (about half and half) to prevent calcium deposit, blockage and overheating which could burn the engine.
I need to install a light duty trailer hitch. Any suggestions?
http://www.etrailer.com/products.asp?model=Camry&category=hit- ch&year=2004&make=Toyota&t1=&h=e&image1.x=12&- amp;image1.y=8
I'd not worry about it. If there really is a problem, it will show itself again at some point in the future.
one?So that i have an idea when i go to the shop.
You have to remove:
2 water hoses with clamps
2 transmission fluid hoses with clamps,
2 connectors for the cooling fans
2 screws that hold the top down.
Take it out of the car, remove the fans behind the radiator, swap the new one in with the reverse process. Pretty easy. You only need a few basic tools to do it.
Use only distilled or reverse osmosis water + coolant to prevent calcium deposit, corosion and blockage that can overheat and burn the engine.
The shop will want $180 - $200. They usually give only 2 years warranty.
I am a male currently 25 years of age. My wife (23) and I have been married for 2 years now. During this time, we've gone to many car dealerships to look around, as we really enjoy looking at what's new and seeing what we'd eventually like to buy. Unfortunately, I believe due to our age (and youthful appearance), we do not have good luck dealing with dealerships :-( A few examples follow:
1. In 2001, my wife (then fiance) and I went to a local Ford dealer as I wanted to replace my 95 Taurus with a new (01) Mustang. When we arrived, we were greeted upon arrival. The salesguy asked if he could help and I asked if we could test drive the Mustang we were looking at. He said sure, and he'd be right back after helping someone else. Well, 20-30 minutes later, no sign of him so we left. (We had the exact same situation at a Saturn dealership.)
2. The same day, I had gone to a local Pontiac by myself to test drive a Grand Am GT. The salesguy asked if I needed help and I said I wasn't sure if I wanted to lease or buy. He stood there with a blank look on his face and didn't say anything. Being only 21 at the time, I wasn't sure how to handle his unhelpfulness, so I said maybe I'd come back later with my mom to test drive the car. Before I had even finish my sentence, he was walking away. (BTW, I did end up buying the car the next day, but from a different salesperson who was slightly nicer).
3. On a trip to a local bigger city, my wife and I stopped at a GM dealer. We stood looking at a Trailblazer and a salesguy approached. He asked if he could help us and we just said we were looking. He replied with "it's fun to dream about cars like this, huh" and walked away. Boy, that was nice of him considering we could easily afford the new vehicle.
These are only a very few of the experiences that we've had while shopping and looking at cars in multiple different cities and different dealerships. I believe we are well dressed and look "normal", so I'm not sure what the problem is beside our young age. We are always courteous to the sales people, but do not receive any respect in return.
This week on Monday, I decided to stop in at a local Toyota dealer since I had seen on the internet that they had a new 05 silver Camry XLE in, which is what I had been wanting, but not finding locally until then. I stopped in there with some papers for my reference including invoice price, true market value, estimated blue book for my current car (01 Grand Am). I was promptly and courteously greeted by a salesperson (Corey). He asked what I was looking for and I told him I would like to take the XLE for a spin. He said sure, and ran inside to get the keys. While it was warming up (it was about 10 degrees out, 6pm at night), we went over some of the features of the car. We then went for a test drive. When we returned, I asked him if we could go over numbers and see what kind of deal he could make me for the car and my trade-in.
He got the information about my trade-in and then went and talked with his sales manager. I had specific numbers in mind that I was not willing to pay more than, if I was going to buy the new car from him--without even prompting him, he had come back with even better numbers than I had hoped for. I'm guessing I could have haggled for less than his offer, but I was already getting a better deal that I had even hoped for, so I told him he had a deal.
Today my wife and I went in to pick up the car. When we walked into the dealership, they had the car sitting in the nice warm showroom (temp outside, -10 degrees). We went over the financial papers, etc. We then went for a trip with him to the gas station for the free tank of gas, during which time he explained a few more features of the car (per policy, he was required to do this with us). After we dropped him back off at the dealership, my wife and I had come to the same conclusion about the dealership--they had treated us like we were spending a million dollars there. We had never before experienced such respect from everyone including the salesguy, the sales manager, and the financial manager, etc.
In the future, as we need countless vehicles over our lifespan, we will definitely consider our local Toyota dealer for many repeat purchases. There has only been one purchase in my life where my expectations of service and quality of the product have been far exceeded; this was it. The car is even better than I remembered and had hoped for. To me, it feels like a $60k car (not that I really know what that feels like). I just cannot explain how happy and easy it was to spend out hard earned money for the quality and respect that we received. Thanks for reading :-)
You should definitely have the dealer fix the leak as it will get worse, and glycol is very toxic.
You will find that the driver's seat from the '02 - '04 Camrys are the same as in the '05.
I have noticed lower back pain from the current generation Camrys since it was introduced. For a while now I have been tired of patching together my '97 LE, but haven't been able to find another car that has the combination of ride comfort, quietness, fuel economy and a folding rear seat (which is important to me). I first noticed the problem with the lumbar area in an '02 Camry service loaner, and the seat has stayed with that design ever since. I was hoping with the '05 freshening the problem would be resolved, but it wasn't.
I tried a Camry in the showroom with a leather seat and it was only slightly better. It seemed like the same seat under the skin.
I think the lumbar support is just overly aggressive and tries too hard to support the driver, even at the minimum setting. And as far as I know, there's nothing wrong with my lower back. I don't have lower back pain except when driving a new Camry.
I've talked to the service manager at my local dealer and an auto upholsterer and both said the problem can't be fixed through surgery. If you find someone who comes up with a solution, I'd like to hear about it. But if you're really in pain, you might have to take the hit on depreciation and buy another car.
However, is there an actual test the dealer can do to detect the possibility of a leak in the dash? I'd hate to pay big $$$ to a have a pressure test or something done that can not confirm such a leak....until the whole thing goes.
Thoughts?
Note that some coolant may spill out even if the engine is cold, so place some rags or paper towels underneath the radiator area in case you don't want the coolant on your garage floor (it will clean up with water).
If there is a loss of coolant, then a pressure test is appropriate (which will tell if there's a leak somewhere in the system). It shouldn't cost an arm and a leg, however.
In the past I have had cars where they did a pressure test and other junk only to find nothing wrong...I get charged $$$$$. Several months later a radiator explodes, water pump goes etc and then that is replaced under warranty...BUT you do not get the $$$ you spent for the tests back. That is why I wondered if there was a definititve test for my problem.
As far as getting a new vehicle. I would not settle for anythng less even if it means going to court. You may loose but go for it!
They put a new short block in our RAV after 3 years. Everything went back together ok but nonetheless it blows a puff of blue smoke after only 24K miles now! Toyota Corp will do NOTHING towards the repair. (We are living with it). The engine only had a 12 mo warranty. Yours likely will be for 36K. Still you bought a new car, you do not want one with a new engine.
I know psycologically many folks buy new cars for peace of mind, especially if they have kids. You could try to make the argument to a judge that you have no piece of mind with this 'new' engine. Hopefully they will do the right thing and get you another car.
Good Luck!
The Camry doesn't come with sticky tires from the factory, so this will only make wheel slip more likely.
They hook up a pressure pump to the cap of the radiator. Start the engine, wait for it to warm up to temp, turn the heater on full blast to make the coolant flow through the heater core.
They then increase the pressure in the radiator while checking for leaks.
Should cost no more than $30.
Perplexed in Chico
Hope that helps.