Complaints of deaths connected to sudden acceleration in Toyota vehicles have surged in recent weeks, with the death toll reaching 34 since 2000, according to new consumer data gathered by the government.
Toyota has received many complaints over vehicle speed control in the 2009 and 2008 model years, according to an Associated Press analysis of government data.
In 2009, Toyota received the most complaints that year -- a total of 130 for Toyota, Lexus and Scion vehicles. Ford and its Mercury brand received the second-highest with 14, followed by General Motors and Honda vehicles with nine.
"34 deaths now linked to sudden Toyota acceleration "
There's scientific evidence linking it now? They found some evidence at long last? What, oh there isn't any evidence yet.
Too much drama for me. Let's wait on the evidence before we shovel any more dirt on Toyota's grave.
Dang, 130 complaints in a year for a total of three car brands encompassing millions of vehicles. Oh dear, the sky is falling. I'd still rather have a modern Toyota than any of those Chevys I had in the '60s and '70s.
No, there's no evidence. This is merely based upon the (expected and usual) increase in complaints received when NHTSA is investigating as they are now doing.
Our family owned more Toyota cars than any other brand during last 30 yrs in California. Models includes,Camry,Celica,Corolla,pickup truck,Highlander etc.. We owned 88',92',05' Camry and 81',99 Corolla along with other Toyota's. Among them we still have 05' Camry,99' Corolla and 02' Highlander.
I'd say from our experiences, best quality built Toyota's were from 81' to 99'.During those years, we rarely had any major problems at least until each car reached close to 100K miles. My first new car was 83' Celica which was a gem! Lots of good memories with that car. It was still going strong until my mom had a front collision(her fault,no mechanical problem) in 95'.
During those glory years, it really seemed like Toyota cars were special in terms of reliability,contents and quality control. It really was a #1 brand of choice for our family over any others. I've had one experience with Honda,93 Accord sedan. One time I was driving on a freeway and without any warning sign,engine died on me! The problem was some kind of electronic chip failure,which caused engine to stop. That was a scary moment. After than experience, I wasn't too crazy about purchasing Honda cars.
My wife drives 02' Highlander and my mom drives 05' Camry. I am glad that these cars are not on a current recall list, but I don't have same confidence with them like other Toyota's we've had in the past. For example,02' Highlander had issues just after 60K miles. Engine will start but keeps bogging then shuts off. Typical Toyota powertrain warranty is 5yr 60K miles,so I thought they will cover this problem with warranty. I THOUGHT WRONG! After dealer inspection, according to them problem was sticking valve in Fuel Injection area. By definition,Fuel Injection related problem was only covered during 3yr 36K mile standard warranty period. I know what powertrain is:engine and transmission, but for modern cars, without some sort of Fuel Injection device, engine CANNOT RUN! At around 60K miles, I was not happy with this type of a serious problem and was upset that Toyota will not take care of it under warranty. After several days of calls with Toyota corporate, they agreed to pay Half of repair bill. One of the reason they did is because our family purchased so many Toyota's over the years.
Maybe Toyota is suffering similar problems like Mercedes in terms of quality control. Tried too hard to be #1 globally with so many different models and forgetting their strong attributes like built quality,reliability etc...
I wish them all the best getting out of current problems/recalls etc..I agree that their problem is much worse than Audi's during 80's. At least Audi didn't have to worry about Internet, back then.
What kind of evidence would you like? Maybe more bodies would be convincing. The evidence is dramatic. There are nearly 10 times as many reports of UA with Toyota and Lexus vehicles than the next in line Ford. Maybe Toyota should set a number of dead before doing something about THEIR poorly designed DBW systems.
If Toyota is incapable of designing a back up system to shut down an unwanted full throttle, they could go to VW and get some pointers. Audi did the right thing when faced with similar complaints. Though there was not the evidence of defects there are in the Toyota vehicles.
All Toyota has to do is get up off that gigantic pile of cash they have made off the American car buyers and put a Brake Over Ride system in every DBW vehicle they have built. If Congress lets them get by with anything less, it will be a miscarriage of justice. The longer Toyota waffles the more damage to their reputation.
gagrice....that's the same question I've been asking...how many deaths, how many injuries, how many accidents that point to UA in Toyotas is enough to warrant it to be unacceptable?
Just when I think it can't get worse Toyota turns around and keeps shooting themselves in the foot. At this rate, they'll never turn themselves around.
All Toyota has to do is get up off that gigantic pile of cash they have made off the American car buyers and put a Brake Over Ride system in every DBW vehicle they have built. If Congress lets them get by with anything less, it will be a miscarriage of justice.
Maybe in an ideal world.
I'd really rather not see Congress involved with this. They can screw up things that they know a little about, so I'm sure that they can REALLY screw up something that they know nothing about.
Best thing at this point would be to mandate that all manufacturers install a Brake Over Ride on all their vehicles from this point forward.
From Toyota's website:
"In addition, as a separate measure independent of the vehicle-based remedy, Toyota will install a brake override system onto the involved Camry, Avalon, and Lexus ES 350, IS 350 and IS 250 models as an extra measure of confidence. This system cuts engine power in case of simultaneous application of both the accelerator and brake pedals."
So I guess that my 2010 Camry SE will get a brake override system at some point.
And how exactly does the brake-override system detect "simultaneous application of both the accelerator and brake pedals"? Signals from sensors that may feed into a defective CPU, and then do nothing? When my PC locks-up there are plenty of buttons (sensors) which stop working. Sometimes the only solution is to deenergize and reboot.
How exactly does it cut engine power? Is it a redundant system, in case the primary CPU system is not responding?
The simple answer would be to have a throttle servomotor drive system that must be "refeshed" every 100 milliseconds. Absent the refresh occurring the spring return would return the throttle plate to idle.
I'd really rather not see Congress involved with this. They can screw up things that they know a little about, so I'm sure that they can REALLY screw up something that they know nothing about.
And how I agree with you there. The problem as I see it, who will keep Toyota's feet to the fire if not some government agency? They have managed over the last decade to bury most attorneys that have gone up against them in court. We know now Toyota hired people from the NHTSA to keep them below the radar. It looks to me as though they are corrupt to the core. I want to see Mr Toyoda sweat in front of all those buffoons in Congress. I realize he has not been at the helm that long. But he has to know their code of secrecy that has kept pertinent information under wraps.
Well, to get the definitive answer as to what happened in those fatal crashes, you'd have to interview the victims. Problem is, they're dead.
But, you're right. While I'd prefer not to have Congress involved in this, it's serious enough that they have to get involved. Perhaps not if Toyota had been forthcoming. But, as we've seen, they have been anything but.
“Toyota is not perfect. But when we find a problem or are made aware of it, we act as quicklyas possible. We are sincerely working on that,” Toyoda said.
5 years in the making and still not addressing the underlining problem...Toyota calls that quick??????? :confuse: :confuse: :confuse:
While that’s all nice and peachy, Toyoda said he will not appear before U.S. lawmakers at hearings scheduled for later this month.
Now that is what I call being there for the customer when needed and truly reflects Toyota customer relations. :sick:
Toyota is facing dozens of class-action lawsuits in the US that could cost it billions of dollars in damages as the Japanese company struggles to contain the fall-out from its mass recall of faulty cars.
Tim Howard, a law professor at Northeastern University in Boston who is co-ordinating litigation against Toyota, estimated that 44 class-action lawsuits had been filed under state and federal law by the end of last week. He estimated that the claims could reach $3.6bn (€2.6bn), based on an average loss of $600 per vehicle.
“The only way business understands is when you hurt their profits,” said Mr Howard. “If they’re going to spend a little bit to clean this up, that’s not going to hurt their business model.”
In addition, some dealers and car auction companies have claimed compensation as a result of the freeze imposed earlier this month on sales of eight recalled Toyota models.
Two law firms spearheading a claim by dealers and auctioneers in Kansas and Louisiana, said “class actions allow small businesses to come together and take on a corporate Goliath like Toyota”.
Toyota hit another bump on Tuesday when the US National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, itself facing criticism over its response to concerns about Toyota safety issues , said it was investigating whether the carmaker conducted its vehicle recalls “in a timely manner”.
The NHTSA said it had requested production data, consumer complaints and other documents expected to shed light on how and when Toyota learned of problems affecting about 6 million vehicles it has recalled in the US.
The NHTSA review could lay the groundwork for officials to fine Toyota if they determine the manufacturer violated its legal obligations. It also sets the stage for a congressional review of Toyota’s safety crisis set for next week.
I would say the dealers have a legitimate claim for loss of sales during the debacle brought on by the Toyota cover ups. Anyone that has lost value in their car has a legitimate complaint. Resale value is possibly the number one or two selling point for Toyota. With it being degraded to not being able to sell your Toyota at any price with recalls hanging on, compensation from Toyota is DUE.
The scientific kind. Facts. Not statistics; not a laundry list of complaints (with no investigation or facts to support them), hard evidence.
You're doing a great job of playing the drama queen with all the talk about more bodies and stuff, but you are lacking hard evidence to support your position.
Didn't they teach the scientific method where you went to high school? Or college? Or grad school? Somewhere. Anywhere.
You appear to be a person with an irrational grudge who is too impatient to wait on the investigation to conclude.
I just saw this article, and the mention of this new gee-whiz system, which may work for many, but really mess-up a few, made me think you might be interested in this article.
Last year, Salada got a new "smart meter" that tracks her electricity use digitally, negating the need for traditional meter readers. Once the meter went in, Salada says her monthly electricity bills exploded from about $450 a month to $1,800 although she says her electricity use didn't change. She wonders if the meter is broken.
Her utility, Pacific Gas & Electric, says it isn't and has investigated hundreds of similar complaints. It says rate increases, hot weather and heavy use are the culprits, not the new meters. PG&E has been sued over the matter, and the California Public Utilities Commission has promised to investigate. Salada had to move to smaller digs. "There's no way we can pay that bill," she says.
"Smart grid" is right up there with clean coal. I have a digital meter, but what I want is to disconnect from the grid entirely.
Back to Toyota, CNN is asking why they don't have brake overrides.
""There's an implausibility going on there, so we defer to the brakes," said Rob Moran, a spokesman for Mercedes-Benz, one carmaker that already uses this technology on all of its cars."
The cold hard facts are that Toyota has a higher percentage of accidents and reports of UA than any other automaker.
Fact is we have one established case of UA that was NOT floor mats or throttle controller. It was witnessed by Toyota service manager. It was repaired by Toyota dealer. It was a faulty throttle body and sensors. If those parts fail causing UA, others could as well. What most here are asking is for an over ride to shut down UA by a hard application of the brakes. VW Audi did just that to satisfy the buyers. What is the problem with Toyota doing the same?
Many here would like to make the car buyer guilty until they prove they are innocent of pushing the wrong peddle. Maybe the Japanese use Napoleonic law to decide guilt or innocence. In the US it is the other way around. Toyota should have to prove the gas was pushed causing the UA. Should be simple if their EDR works. Of course it did not in the case that got this all brought to the front. More for Toyota to work on. A black box that works and can be read by a non partisan entity.
Hi it is so nice for Toyota to respond to GM the way it has, not unlike the two speed skaters that let the USA come 2nd and third. I find not being here has turned it around for GM . Toyota out in front with pedal to the metal,guess this was a mistake ? What is the count 8,000,000 for stuck mat ,accelerator. 2,000,000 sludge 800,000 for steering, 350 dead and counting. The 4 in the Lexus that should be the 911 call that killed them not the gas pedal. (talking on the phone will kill you too) This makes Consumers look good for their push for Toyota over GM and You are looking marvelous too darling. I do hope most park before the fix,in case it happens to you. Love my Buick Enclave.
PMO, everybody keeps forgetting the 1.5 mil or so 2GR-FE V-6 engines with the rubber VVTi oil lines that have a tendency to rupture and dump all the engine oil out, WITHOUT the low oil light coming on. This serious problem was (is) being badly mishandled by individual Toyota dealers. Toyota finally implemented an all metal line fix on production V-6s in late 2008. Type in VVTi oil line failure on any search engine and be amazed!
While driving this afternoon, I heard a short news item on the radio, that if it pans out, Toyota is going to have even bigger issues.
The item stated that the Corolla was being investigated for steering control issues above 40 MPH. The item did not state what the issue was nor did they state a model year or model years. The item went on to say that NHTSA and Toyota were investigating.
Rather interesting that you bring up Toyota V-6 engines. A few years ago they had a sludging issue with a good number of their V-6 engines because of an internal gas circulation issue. One of the cures was to use synthetic oil.
My wife has a 1998 Chrysler Concorde with the 2.7L V-6, an engine also known to have a sludging issue, but for other reasons. To prevent the problem, one must do very frequent oil changes (conventional motor oil) or use synthetic motor oil. I do the latter.
That 2.7 can't be blamed on Chrysler really because it was actually sourced from Mitsibushi.
The VR6 motor in many VW paroducts was prone to sludging as well.
The Toyota V6 sludging was the old 3.0 litre engine which isn't even in existence anymore, having been replaced by a 3.3 and the current 3.5 which exhibitls none of the same problems.
For gits and shiggles I just did a search of the entire Country as I was curious how many high mileage used V6 Camries (since they are Toyotas most popular model) are out there for sale as I figured if the sludge issue was so bad, there wouldn't be any.
> figured if the sludge issue was so bad, there wouldn't be any.
Overstatement, then used to show the opposite isn't true. Doesn't work. Just shows that some cars were over-maintained beyond the toyota recommended change schedule for those years. Or they used synthetic oil that didn't as easily fall prey to the weaknesses in the engine design. Or they drove them in a particular kind of service that didn't lend itself to the sludge building up--perhaps in temperate climates as opposed to hot environs.
Really? SO you have talked with every single one of these owners to verify this?
Hogwash. The Sludge thing was an overblown hype. Same exact thing that is happening today with UA. "Over-maintainence" lmfao. Follow the scheduled maintainence and you won't have a problem.
I could make the same argument that every single Government Motors vehicle out there that uses Dexcool should be dead right now but I know that isn't true either. Heck my fathers 04 grand prix had a cracked manifold a month after he got it and still managed 2X0k thousand miles before it got sold.
I would suggest the design of the pedal is that ,like putting your foot on quicksand the spring is able to push back. When the plates either side of the sensor, the internal workings of this American designed plastic composit fail ! This leaves the plates over the sensor asking for gas. This in turn leaves the driver to think the pedal is stuck .I would think removal of this design for another,not a new brake over ride.
The CTS throttle controller is a red herring that Toyota grabbed out of their bag of tricks. It was built to Toyota specs including the moisture absorbing plastic. No accidents are attributed to that sticky throttle.
The recalls have been expanded to many countries that do not use the CTS throttle controller. The Shim is a scam. If Toyoda gets in front of Congress and says they have a fix with the Shim, they will eat him alive.
CTS would just as soon dump Toyota as to continue dealing with that bunch of fools. It would not make a blip on their bottom line. Notice their stock is rebounding fine. It is a good buy right now.
CTS stated that since the problem of sudden unintended acceleration has been reported to have existed in some Lexus vehicles and Toyota vehicles going back to 1999 when CTS did not even make this product for any customer, CTS believes that the rare slow return pedal phenomenon, which may occur in extreme environmental conditions, should absolutely not be linked with any sudden unintended acceleration incidents. CTS is also not aware of any accidents and injuries caused by the rare slow return pedal condition, to the best of its knowledge. CTS wishes to clarify that it does not, and has never made, any accelerator pedals for Lexus vehicles and that CTS also has no accelerator pedals in Toyota vehicles prior to model year 2005.
“We are disappointed that, despite these facts, CTS accelerator pedals have been frequently associated with the sudden unintended acceleration problems and incidents in various media reports,” said Dennis Thornton, CTS Vice President and General Manager of Automotive Products Group. Toyota itself has also publically stated that this recall is separate from the earlier recalls which were done to remedy sudden acceleration in vehicles.
So why would CTS want to take the blame for Toyota's many UA problems? It is not that much of their market. They sell to many other automakers that do not have the SUA problems that Toyota has. That was the first thing Toyota did was point a big finger at CTS. Toyota needs to take the blame for a decade of deteriorating quality.
Towns and ranking member Rep. Darrell Issa, R-Calif., also issued a subpoena today for "all documents relating to Toyota motor vehicle safety and Toyota's handling of alleged motor vehicle defects and related litigation" in the possession of Dimitrios Biller, who was the National Managing Counsel for Toyota's American operation from 2003-07.
"The only way we can ensure that the safety needs of American drivers are being met is to examine, in a bipartisan fashion, exactly who knew what and when, and if appropriate and immediate action was taken to mitigate any danger to the American public," the pair said in a statement.
Biller has accused Toyota of hiding "evidence of safety defects from consumers and regulators, and fostered a culture of hypocrisy and deceit," the committee said.
Biller has claimed that his accusations are verifiable, based on documents in his possession.
Toyota had filed an injunction preventing Biller from disclosing those documents; the committee said its subpoena supersedes the injunction and Biller plans to fully cooperate with the subpoena.
This will be most interesting. I remember as a teen about the accusations many members of my family made about Toyota hiding there recalls and other safety issues to trick the american public into believing they made "perfect automobiles". It worked!!! Some of you hammered me for repeating those accusations regarding the great "Yota". Well the truth will set me free thanks to people like Dimitrios Biller former National Managing Counsel for Toyota's American.
rocky.....it's my hope that first of all, Toyota does indeed provide ALL OF THE DOCUMENTS that they say they willl. 2nd, it will be interesting to note how far this issue goes back. Something tells me it's just not going to be the last couple of model years as Toyota has stated. Lastly, I have to think that Toyota will have to make public there plans to address the affected vehicles. Only then will they be able to turn themselves around and focus on building better quality vehicles, and ones that are free from safety defects.
I hope however this turns out, you'll at least get a "real fix" for your vehicle out of this debacle.
I feel badly for CTS. Toyota unfairly dropped their automotive might on them when this issue came to the public. I'd say that at the very least, that this deeply hurt any relationship Toyota has or had with CTS. While I'm sure that CTS will never turn down business. I'm betting they'd much rather have relationships with other automotive entities than they would Toyota right now. I'm sure they'd sever ties with Toyota if they could. That's a large chunk of business for CTS just to throw away, however. Good business partners just shouldn't be treated the way Toyota treated CTS.
I heard that story too! While your Toyota was in for "routine maintenance" the dealership would receive a whole bunch of TSBs to repair defects known only to Toyota. It worked! No one was the wiser. Somebody would be like, "All I ever needed was oil changes and routine maintenance for my Camry" when all along he could be on his third transmission or second engine.
A) you could find a tech who could replace an engine or transmission in the same amount of time as an oil change
Toyota would have a stash of these items for this particular accusation
C) You could actually fool a customer into believing they didn't have a new engine put in and that the one they had just magically lost all the dirt and grime associated with longtime exposure to the elements.
Have any Toyota owners on this forum actually gotten a letter from Toyota, or a dealer, explaining the recall and requesting that their vehicle be brought in for the recall "fix"?
It is my understanding that letters would be sent to all affected Toyota owners, but I have received nothing to date. I know that my local dealer is currently doing some recall fixes, possibly because owners are calling him???????
Two USA engineers from Indiana hold the patent on this part so bag my Parts sounds good, This is a guess ,Toyota building in the USA with USA built parts. Toyota was better off with their own parts.
I am sure Toyota makes some parts and hold patents. I don't think they Ever made all the parts for any of their vehicles. I know my first Toyota had a poor copy of a Chevy 6 cylinder engine. You could put in Chevy parts that lasted longer than the melted down lucky lager parts Toyota used.
All 3rd party vendors build parts to Toyota specs. Many of Toyota electronics comes from Denso. Not a top tier vendor by any stretch. I would bet that CTS was used for convenience and pricing. All the vendors have been beat down over the last few years by the auto makers. Lowered quality is to be expected with lower prices and cutting corners.
True GM has now and started to build world cars in 1990, meaning it is getting parts from around the world. Ford had a hold up because of parts from India. When the USA started part time employment GM started in 1990 to replace its engineering with contract people. Toyota received tax money from Shelby for one and built in the USA . GM ,The New GM will now ask for the same in any state , as a president has been set. This started years ago with GM in OK city
Those stories are here also. Early on in their life in the US, they tried to emphasize that people had to bring their cars back to the brand store for service because no one else could quite service them the way Honda and Toyota and Datsun could. Minor repairs were made to things that the owners didn't know about, especially if they left the car for service rather than waiting for it.
In the event you require the names of the two involved, David S. Pfaffenburg of Mishawaka IN. and Robert L. Newman of Osceola IN. Pat 6515473 July 3,2002 US Patent Elcart IN. CTS Now you will know the rest of the story.
GM, Ford, and Chrysler did the exact same things; you wouldn't believe how many times the GM service advisors told me that I should bring my car in to them for servicing because no one else could come close to servicing them the way they could, lol!!!
Sadly, there is more than just a little truth to that.
Dealer service technicians encounter problems associated with a specific model a lot more often than any third party mechanic. A problem that a third party mechanic might see only once in a lifetime (and therefore take days to troubleshoot and fix) might have been encountered dozens of time in a marque shop.
Even more true today when an engine ISN'T "just" an engine.
And then of course there is the issue that TSBs are not shared with third parties.
Comments
Toyota has received many complaints over vehicle speed control in the 2009 and 2008 model years, according to an Associated Press analysis of government data.
In 2009, Toyota received the most complaints that year -- a total of 130 for Toyota, Lexus and Scion vehicles. Ford and its Mercury brand received the second-highest with 14, followed by General Motors and Honda vehicles with nine.
http://www.timesheraldonline.com/news/ci_14408732
There's scientific evidence linking it now? They found some evidence at long last? What, oh there isn't any evidence yet.
Too much drama for me. Let's wait on the evidence before we shovel any more dirt on Toyota's grave.
Dang, 130 complaints in a year for a total of three car brands encompassing millions of vehicles. Oh dear, the sky is falling. I'd still rather have a modern Toyota than any of those Chevys I had in the '60s and '70s.
John
We owned 88',92',05' Camry and 81',99 Corolla along with other Toyota's.
Among them we still have 05' Camry,99' Corolla and 02' Highlander.
I'd say from our experiences, best quality built Toyota's were from 81' to 99'.During
those years, we rarely had any major problems at least until each car reached
close to 100K miles. My first new car was 83' Celica which was a gem! Lots of
good memories with that car. It was still going strong until my mom had a front
collision(her fault,no mechanical problem) in 95'.
During those glory years, it really seemed like Toyota cars were special in terms
of reliability,contents and quality control. It really was a #1 brand of choice for
our family over any others. I've had one experience with Honda,93 Accord sedan.
One time I was driving on a freeway and without any warning sign,engine died on
me! The problem was some kind of electronic chip failure,which caused engine to
stop. That was a scary moment. After than experience, I wasn't too crazy about
purchasing Honda cars.
My wife drives 02' Highlander and my mom drives 05' Camry. I am glad that these
cars are not on a current recall list, but I don't have same confidence with them
like other Toyota's we've had in the past. For example,02' Highlander had issues
just after 60K miles. Engine will start but keeps bogging then shuts off. Typical
Toyota powertrain warranty is 5yr 60K miles,so I thought they will cover this
problem with warranty. I THOUGHT WRONG! After dealer inspection, according
to them problem was sticking valve in Fuel Injection area. By definition,Fuel Injection related problem was only covered during 3yr 36K mile standard warranty
period. I know what powertrain is:engine and transmission, but for modern cars,
without some sort of Fuel Injection device, engine CANNOT RUN!
At around 60K miles, I was not happy with this type of a serious problem and was
upset that Toyota will not take care of it under warranty. After several days of calls
with Toyota corporate, they agreed to pay Half of repair bill. One of the reason they
did is because our family purchased so many Toyota's over the years.
Maybe Toyota is suffering similar problems like Mercedes in terms of quality
control. Tried too hard to be #1 globally with so many different models and forgetting
their strong attributes like built quality,reliability etc...
I wish them all the best getting out of current problems/recalls etc..I agree that
their problem is much worse than Audi's during 80's. At least Audi didn't have to
worry about Internet, back then.
If Toyota is incapable of designing a back up system to shut down an unwanted full throttle, they could go to VW and get some pointers. Audi did the right thing when faced with similar complaints. Though there was not the evidence of defects there are in the Toyota vehicles.
All Toyota has to do is get up off that gigantic pile of cash they have made off the American car buyers and put a Brake Over Ride system in every DBW vehicle they have built. If Congress lets them get by with anything less, it will be a miscarriage of justice. The longer Toyota waffles the more damage to their reputation.
Just when I think it can't get worse Toyota turns around and keeps shooting themselves in the foot. At this rate, they'll never turn themselves around.
Maybe in an ideal world.
I'd really rather not see Congress involved with this. They can screw up things that they know a little about, so I'm sure that they can REALLY screw up something that they know nothing about.
Best thing at this point would be to mandate that all manufacturers install a Brake Over Ride on all their vehicles from this point forward.
From Toyota's website:
"In addition, as a separate measure independent of the vehicle-based remedy, Toyota will install a brake override system onto the involved Camry, Avalon, and Lexus ES 350, IS 350 and IS 250 models as an extra measure of confidence. This system cuts engine power in case of simultaneous application of both the accelerator and brake pedals."
So I guess that my 2010 Camry SE will get a brake override system at some point.
How exactly does it cut engine power? Is it a redundant system, in case the primary CPU system is not responding?
And how I agree with you there. The problem as I see it, who will keep Toyota's feet to the fire if not some government agency? They have managed over the last decade to bury most attorneys that have gone up against them in court. We know now Toyota hired people from the NHTSA to keep them below the radar. It looks to me as though they are corrupt to the core. I want to see Mr Toyoda sweat in front of all those buffoons in Congress. I realize he has not been at the helm that long. But he has to know their code of secrecy that has kept pertinent information under wraps.
But, you're right. While I'd prefer not to have Congress involved in this, it's serious enough that they have to get involved. Perhaps not if Toyota had been forthcoming. But, as we've seen, they have been anything but.
5 years in the making and still not addressing the underlining problem...Toyota calls that quick??????? :confuse: :confuse: :confuse:
While that’s all nice and peachy, Toyoda said he will not appear before U.S. lawmakers at hearings scheduled for later this month.
Now that is what I call being there for the customer when needed and truly reflects Toyota customer relations. :sick:
Toyota is facing dozens of class-action lawsuits in the US that could cost it billions of dollars in damages as the Japanese company struggles to contain the fall-out from its mass recall of faulty cars.
Tim Howard, a law professor at Northeastern University in Boston who is co-ordinating litigation against Toyota, estimated that 44 class-action lawsuits had been filed under state and federal law by the end of last week. He estimated that the claims could reach $3.6bn (€2.6bn), based on an average loss of $600 per vehicle.
“The only way business understands is when you hurt their profits,” said Mr Howard. “If they’re going to spend a little bit to clean this up, that’s not going to hurt their business model.”
In addition, some dealers and car auction companies have claimed compensation as a result of the freeze imposed earlier this month on sales of eight recalled Toyota models.
Two law firms spearheading a claim by dealers and auctioneers in Kansas and Louisiana, said “class actions allow small businesses to come together and take on a corporate Goliath like Toyota”.
Toyota hit another bump on Tuesday when the US National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, itself facing criticism over its response to concerns about Toyota safety issues , said it was investigating whether the carmaker conducted its vehicle recalls “in a timely manner”.
The NHTSA said it had requested production data, consumer complaints and other documents expected to shed light on how and when Toyota learned of problems affecting about 6 million vehicles it has recalled in the US.
The NHTSA review could lay the groundwork for officials to fine Toyota if they determine the manufacturer violated its legal obligations. It also sets the stage for a congressional review of Toyota’s safety crisis set for next week.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/c41c5a9e-1b2a-11df-953f-00144feab49a.html
The scientific kind. Facts. Not statistics; not a laundry list of complaints (with no investigation or facts to support them), hard evidence.
You're doing a great job of playing the drama queen with all the talk about more bodies and stuff, but you are lacking hard evidence to support your position.
Didn't they teach the scientific method where you went to high school? Or college? Or grad school? Somewhere. Anywhere.
You appear to be a person with an irrational grudge who is too impatient to wait on the investigation to conclude.
John
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Last year, Salada got a new "smart meter" that tracks her electricity use digitally, negating the need for traditional meter readers. Once the meter went in, Salada says her monthly electricity bills exploded from about $450 a month to $1,800 although she says her electricity use didn't change. She wonders if the meter is broken.
Her utility, Pacific Gas & Electric, says it isn't and has investigated hundreds of similar complaints. It says rate increases, hot weather and heavy use are the culprits, not the new meters. PG&E has been sued over the matter, and the California Public Utilities Commission has promised to investigate. Salada had to move to smaller digs. "There's no way we can pay that bill," she says.
http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/energy/2010-02-17-smartgrid17_CV_N.htm
Back to Toyota, CNN is asking why they don't have brake overrides.
""There's an implausibility going on there, so we defer to the brakes," said Rob Moran, a spokesman for Mercedes-Benz, one carmaker that already uses this technology on all of its cars."
'Brake override:' The fix Toyota should have had
The cold hard facts are that Toyota has a higher percentage of accidents and reports of UA than any other automaker.
Fact is we have one established case of UA that was NOT floor mats or throttle controller. It was witnessed by Toyota service manager. It was repaired by Toyota dealer. It was a faulty throttle body and sensors. If those parts fail causing UA, others could as well. What most here are asking is for an over ride to shut down UA by a hard application of the brakes. VW Audi did just that to satisfy the buyers. What is the problem with Toyota doing the same?
Many here would like to make the car buyer guilty until they prove they are innocent of pushing the wrong peddle. Maybe the Japanese use Napoleonic law to decide guilt or innocence. In the US it is the other way around. Toyota should have to prove the gas was pushed causing the UA. Should be simple if their EDR works. Of course it did not in the case that got this all brought to the front. More for Toyota to work on. A black box that works and can be read by a non partisan entity.
The item stated that the Corolla was being investigated for steering control issues above 40 MPH. The item did not state what the issue was nor did they state a model year or model years. The item went on to say that NHTSA and Toyota were investigating.
My wife has a 1998 Chrysler Concorde with the 2.7L V-6, an engine also known to have a sludging issue, but for other reasons. To prevent the problem, one must do very frequent oil changes (conventional motor oil) or use synthetic motor oil. I do the latter.
The VR6 motor in many VW paroducts was prone to sludging as well.
The Toyota V6 sludging was the old 3.0 litre engine which isn't even in existence anymore, having been replaced by a 3.3 and the current 3.5 which exhibitls none of the same problems.
For gits and shiggles I just did a search of the entire Country as I was curious how many high mileage used V6 Camries (since they are Toyotas most popular model) are out there for sale as I figured if the sludge issue was so bad, there wouldn't be any.
Hmmmmmm...
link title
Or how about V6 Toyotas in general?
link title
Overstatement, then used to show the opposite isn't true. Doesn't work. Just shows that some cars were over-maintained beyond the toyota recommended change schedule for those years. Or they used synthetic oil that didn't as easily fall prey to the weaknesses in the engine design. Or they drove them in a particular kind of service that didn't lend itself to the sludge building up--perhaps in temperate climates as opposed to hot environs.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Hogwash. The Sludge thing was an overblown hype. Same exact thing that is happening today with UA. "Over-maintainence" lmfao. Follow the scheduled maintainence and you won't have a problem.
I could make the same argument that every single Government Motors vehicle out there that uses Dexcool should be dead right now but I know that isn't true either. Heck my fathers 04 grand prix had a cracked manifold a month after he got it and still managed 2X0k thousand miles before it got sold.
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/exclusive-ttac-takes-apart-both-toyota-gas-peda- ls/
The recalls have been expanded to many countries that do not use the CTS throttle controller. The Shim is a scam. If Toyoda gets in front of Congress and says they have a fix with the Shim, they will eat him alive.
CTS would just as soon dump Toyota as to continue dealing with that bunch of fools. It would not make a blip on their bottom line. Notice their stock is rebounding fine. It is a good buy right now.
Just curious as to how you would know this?
CTS stated that since the problem of sudden unintended acceleration has been reported to have existed in some Lexus vehicles and Toyota vehicles going back to 1999 when CTS did not even make this product for any customer, CTS believes that the rare slow return pedal phenomenon, which may occur in extreme environmental conditions, should absolutely not be linked with any sudden unintended acceleration incidents. CTS is also not aware of any accidents and injuries caused by the rare slow return pedal condition, to the best of its knowledge. CTS wishes to clarify that it does not, and has never made, any accelerator pedals for Lexus vehicles and that CTS also has no accelerator pedals in Toyota vehicles prior to model year 2005.
“We are disappointed that, despite these facts, CTS accelerator pedals have been frequently associated with the sudden unintended acceleration problems and incidents in various media reports,” said Dennis Thornton, CTS Vice President and General Manager of Automotive Products Group. Toyota itself has also publically stated that this recall is separate from the earlier recalls which were done to remedy sudden acceleration in vehicles.
So why would CTS want to take the blame for Toyota's many UA problems? It is not that much of their market. They sell to many other automakers that do not have the SUA problems that Toyota has. That was the first thing Toyota did was point a big finger at CTS. Toyota needs to take the blame for a decade of deteriorating quality.
CTS and Toyota continue to work closely in our partnership to resolve the slow return phenomenon.
Does this sound like, as you put it, "CTS would just as soon dump Toyota as to continue dealing with that bunch of fools."
Towns and ranking member Rep. Darrell Issa, R-Calif., also issued a subpoena today for "all documents relating to Toyota motor vehicle safety and Toyota's handling of alleged motor vehicle defects and related litigation" in the possession of Dimitrios Biller, who was the National Managing Counsel for Toyota's American operation from 2003-07.
"The only way we can ensure that the safety needs of American drivers are being met is to examine, in a bipartisan fashion, exactly who knew what and when, and if appropriate and immediate action was taken to mitigate any danger to the American public," the pair said in a statement.
Biller has accused Toyota of hiding "evidence of safety defects from consumers and regulators, and fostered a culture of hypocrisy and deceit," the committee said.
Biller has claimed that his accusations are verifiable, based on documents in his possession.
Toyota had filed an injunction preventing Biller from disclosing those documents; the committee said its subpoena supersedes the injunction and Biller plans to fully cooperate with the subpoena.
From The Detroit News: http://www.detnews.com/article/20100218/AUTO01/2180465/1148/rss25#ixzz0fymdpjuo
This will be most interesting. I remember as a teen about the accusations many members of my family made about Toyota hiding there recalls and other safety issues to trick the american public into believing they made "perfect automobiles". It worked!!! Some of you hammered me for repeating those accusations regarding the great "Yota". Well the truth will set me free thanks to people like Dimitrios Biller former National Managing Counsel for Toyota's American.
-Rocky
I hope however this turns out, you'll at least get a "real fix" for your vehicle out of this debacle.
I feel badly for CTS. Toyota unfairly dropped their automotive might on them when this issue came to the public. I'd say that at the very least, that this deeply hurt any relationship Toyota has or had with CTS. While I'm sure that CTS will never turn down business. I'm betting they'd much rather have relationships with other automotive entities than they would Toyota right now. I'm sure they'd sever ties with Toyota if they could. That's a large chunk of business for CTS just to throw away, however. Good business partners just shouldn't be treated the way Toyota treated CTS.
A) you could find a tech who could replace an engine or transmission in the same amount of time as an oil change
C) You could actually fool a customer into believing they didn't have a new engine put in and that the one they had just magically lost all the dirt and grime associated with longtime exposure to the elements.
Uh huh.
Well, I keep my engine spotless. They could probably fool me!
It is my understanding that letters would be sent to all affected Toyota owners, but I have received nothing to date. I know that my local dealer is currently doing some recall fixes, possibly because owners are calling him???????
All 3rd party vendors build parts to Toyota specs. Many of Toyota electronics comes from Denso. Not a top tier vendor by any stretch. I would bet that CTS was used for convenience and pricing. All the vendors have been beat down over the last few years by the auto makers. Lowered quality is to be expected with lower prices and cutting corners.
But Denso US's parent company, NipponDenso, is THE top tier vendor throughout the asian market.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Sadly, there is more than just a little truth to that.
Dealer service technicians encounter problems associated with a specific model a lot more often than any third party mechanic. A problem that a third party mechanic might see only once in a lifetime (and therefore take days to troubleshoot and fix) might have been encountered dozens of time in a marque shop.
Even more true today when an engine ISN'T "just" an engine.
And then of course there is the issue that TSBs are not shared with third parties.
plus, I had GM factory replacement parts go out and not last no longer than 3rd party parts that cost a heck of a lot less