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Toyota Halts Sales of Popular Models - Accelerator Stuck Problem Recall

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Comments

  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,439
    edited March 2010
    At this time there is NO steering recall on the 09-10 Corolla. Just an investigation of thousands of complaints on erratic steering. I would look for one shortly as Chevy just recalled 1.3 million Cobalts with the same steering system as your Corolla. As usual Toyota is late to the game.
  • gizzer777gizzer777 Posts: 335
    edited March 2010
    100% correct!!!

    But there IS a recall on 09-2010 Floormats (I would imagine this recall will turn out to be for the all weather mats but they have not said) in Corolla that was added a few weeks ago. THAT recall does show on my VIN when I run it, and I have the oem carpet mats!.

    ...My dealer did not even know that Corollas were added to the floormat recall a couple of weeks ago! (communication again)

    They were also unaware of the Oil consumption on early 09 TSB...UNTIL I SHOWED A PRINTED COPY TO THEM! It took the service manager (a great guy ) to get it done for me. My 09 Corolla drank 1/2 qt of oil in the 1st 700 miles too!

    They are also a good dealer IMHO
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    "..do we really know..."

    Not anywhere I have seen.
  • obyoneobyone Posts: 8,054
    I'd bet that Toyota would choose the most cost effective method to install the brake overide. Course it may not work as intended as was previously explained. Does that matter to Toyota at this point? Don't think so.
  • revitrevit Posts: 476
    CHRISTINE TIERNEY AND NATHAN HURST
    The Detroit News

    Washington --Toyota Motor Corp. officials insisted Tuesday in the strongest terms yet that there was no evidence that an electronic defect might be causing unintended acceleration of its vehicles despite compelling new data suggesting a link.

    Claims data from insurer State Farm disclosed Tuesday suggests a strong connection between the introduction of electronic throttle control, also known as drive by wire, and events where drivers of Toyotas couldn't control their cars.

    Claims relating to unintended acceleration in Toyota Camry sedans more than tripled in 2002 after the automaker introduced electronic throttle control in the model. Similar claims relating to the smaller Corolla nearly tripled in 2005, after it was equipped with electronic throttle control, according to State Farm, which warned the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration about the trends.

    But Toyota officials on Tuesday maintained that the problem wasn't with the electronics, as they did in two hearings last week.

    Get ready for 0% financing for 8 years on the 2010 Toyota Camry...its just around the corner!
  • graphicguygraphicguy Edmunds Poster EmeritusPosts: 11,553
    Sharon....I think it's a legit question regarding UA in Toyotas. You posted a video of an independent test of the alleged "sticky pedal" which seems to point out they aren't defective....in the cold, in the heat, being submerged in water, being literally baked....it still worked. To date, we've yet to see one of these failed "sticky pedals". No one has been able to examine one that's failed.

    On the other hand, we have the testimony from Dr Gilbert, the Smiths, and countless others stating that it wasn't the floormats, nor the "sticky pedal" that caused their Toyota UA.

    So, where does that lead us? Right back to Dr Gilbert who showed how it could be the electronics/software. And, we've got first person experiences of people (at least those who survived) who state that even though they followed the UA procedure (shifting into neutral, stomping on the brakes, attempting to turn their Toyota/Lexus vehicle off), that points to the same thing.

    Toyota says "no way" (despite all the evidence to the contrary). They haven't produced any of their alleged research ruling out software/electronics testing. And, have admitted that they don't know what's causing it in as many as 70% of the UA complaints against Toyota.

    They did hire a 3rd party, Exponent to help them ascertain the "why" in their UA research in their vehicles. But, Exponent is an expert in litigation research. So, it doesn't take a brain surgeon as to the direction Toyota is going. They want to slog through the courts, tying them up for years. Congress seems to be the entity that will push this thing forward, more quickly, much to Toyota's chagrin, as Toyota is now being investigated by no less than 3 Federal entities.
    2018 Acura TLX 3.5 SH AWD A-SPEC
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,439
    edited March 2010
    We should accept that it is Toyota's problem to resolve. They designed or paid some company to design their DBW throttle systems. As soon as they implemented DBW the complaints started pouring in. Would Toyota have US believe that drivers all of a sudden got a case of the fat foot hitting the throttle instead of the brake? We know that the floor mats and the poorly designed throttle peddle caused a few of the complaints and accidents with deaths. It looks like Toyota trumped up the sticky peddle from CTS to explain the other cases of UA. The NHTSA needs to hold Toyota responsible for every case of UA until they get the problem solved. Forcing the customer to prove they have a problem with UA is unacceptable.

    Why does it take Toyota longer to accept their responsibilities than it does the other automakers? Maybe it is the free ride they have been given by the NHTSA and a few rags like CR.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America I70 & I75 Posts: 23,781
    >Why does it take Toyota longer to accept their responsibilities than it does the other automakers? Maybe it is the free ride they have been given by the NHTSA and a few rags like CR.

    Add in the fact that they are a Japanese company operating from Japan. That's where the profits go, and doling out those profits to "fix" things here requires permission from "headquarters"--per Lentz's testimony. He did not have authority to change things and fix things.

    I find humor that the steering gear problem in Corollas and apparently a similar motor in Cobalts is by a company partly owned by toyota.

    2015 Cruze 2LT, 2014 Malibu 2LT, 2008 Cobalt 2LT

  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,439
    That was my reference to Toyota being slow on the uptake. Why was Chevy able to determine that steering motor was a potential hazard and Toyota is still investigating?

    My thought is Toyota handed it to the legal department before they give it to engineering. Toyota is waiting for a solid death count before they do the recall. Of course they have 8.5 million people waiting to get the the "SHIM".
  • popsavalonpopsavalon Posts: 231
    During my daily driving, there are certain things that require the use of some throttle/brake application at the same time (parallel parking on a hill, pulling up on ramps for oil changes, etc.). What logic is used by brake override to allow these useful interactions to continue? Does someone on this board have actual experience with Toyota brake override on newer vehicles?
  • beachfish2beachfish2 Richmond VAPosts: 177
    A U.S. senator made the perfect suggestion during yesterday's hearing with the Toyota QA guy and head Prius engineer.

    "A U.S. Senator said Tuesday that the U.S. should consider banning Japanese-made cars until Japan's government guarantees the vehicles have no defects."

    No, there's no hysteria. BWAAAAHAHAHAHA

    Did we all fall down the rabbit hole with Alice?
  • gizzer777gizzer777 Posts: 335
    uh oh...I did not think most here are surprised at this

    pedal and floormat "fix" do not seem to be working........

    http://cbs13.com/national/Toyota.recall.repair.2.1533510.html
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,439
    Did anyone Really think the Shim scam would work. I am very curious about any brake override that is supposedly installed. If that report is accurate I am thinking that Toyota is trying to pull a fast one. Here is the statement from Toyota.

    TORRANCE, Calif., February 22, 2010 – Toyota Motor Sales (TMS), U.S.A., Inc. today announced that it will install a brake override system on an expanded range of customers’ vehicles to provide an additional measure of confidence. This braking system enhancement will automatically reduce engine power when the brake pedal and the accelerator pedal are applied simultaneously under certain driving conditions.

    The following year models have been added to the list of vehicles which will receive brake override upgrade: 2005-2010 Tacoma, 2009-2010 Venza and 2008-2010 Sequoia. Toyota previously announced that the system would be installed onto the 2007-2010 Camry, 2005-2010 Avalon, and the 2007-2010 Lexus ES 350, 2006-2010 IS 350 and 2006-2010 IS 250 models.

    The brake override system is not an integral part of the recall remedy, but is instead being added as an extra measure of confidence for Toyota owners.


    Customer complaint:

    In one of the reports filed with NHTSA, a 2010 Camry owner who had their car repaired Feb. 12 in Michigan said it accelerated up a snow bank just five days later after receiving special brake override software, the complaint said.

    "Had the incident happened one minute earlier, I would have been in a high car/pedestrian area and would not have been able to avoid an accident," the consumer wrote. "The fix done by Toyota is not the fix for the acceleration problem."


    How did this customer get the upgrade 10 days before Toyota made the announcement?
  • gizzer777gizzer777 Posts: 335
    gagrice...I must admit I did not even read the portion about the over ride fix in that report (MY BAD). Since I have a Corolla the mat and shim portion interested me....Your point is well taken,
  • graphicguygraphicguy Edmunds Poster EmeritusPosts: 11,553
    edited March 2010
    gagrice...we knew it was just a matter of time (well, looked like it didn't take too long) that someone would make note that the "sticky pedal" and floormat fix wasn't the answer (even though Toyota testified that it was THE ironclad fix).

    WE also knew that brake over ride wasn't a fix for Toy/Lex. We did know that it was a way for them to make it easier to control a Toy/Lex that is affected by UA, though.

    So, none of this is surprising.
    2018 Acura TLX 3.5 SH AWD A-SPEC
  • winter2winter2 Posts: 1,801
    If you have not heard, GM is recalling Cobalt and Pontiac G5 autos for a steering issue. This recall is related to the Toyota recalls because the supplier of the part(s) in question also supplies parts to Toyota.
  • ingvaringvar Posts: 205
    Oooooops I did it again, moving forward even when you don't want to :P
    I'm so happy that get rid of my toyota(is350) couple month ago with no loss.
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Posts: 3,062
    edited March 2010
    Has unintended accleration been found on manual transmission models of Camry or Corola? If so, then drivers could merely throw out the clutch, shift to neutral.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America I70 & I75 Posts: 23,781
    >in question also supplies parts to Toyota.

    And is partly owned by toyota. Surprise. Surprise.

    2015 Cruze 2LT, 2014 Malibu 2LT, 2008 Cobalt 2LT

  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,439
    Are manual transmission cars DBW as well as the Auto transmission versions? I cannot imagine the need for a DBW clutch or transmission shift linkage. That would be the ultimate waste of resources. Though it may be the only way to get all the stability control garbage to work with ABS etc.
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,870
    Toyota's problems still accelerating

    quote-
    Some Toyota owners have begun complaining that their vehicles suddenly accelerated even after dealerships made repairs to fix the problem, according to reports filed with federal safety regulators.

    At least seven complaints, filed in the last two weeks with the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, allege that after the recall service to modify pedals and replace floor mats the cars still surged out of control.

    Although the allegations are unverified by the agency, they are a worrying sign that the nearly 10 million recall notices issued by Toyota may not fully address the problem of unintended acceleration -- which some believe is caused by problems in the electronic throttle system, rather than mechanical issues involving pedals.

    NHTSA has said it will review Toyota electronics to see whether they are a potential cause, and the automaker has commissioned a private study of its throttle system.

    "There is already doubt out there that the solutions Toyota has put forward really fix the problem of unintended acceleration," said Aaron Bragman, auto industry analyst at IHS Global Insight. He cautioned, however, that the complaints should be thoroughly investigated before definitive conclusions are drawn.-end quote

    Still a problem, or unethical individuals taking advantage of the media hysteria?
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Alamogordo, NMPosts: 7,615
    Are manual transmission cars DBW as well as the Auto transmission versions? I cannot imagine the need for a DBW clutch or transmission shift linkage. That would be the ultimate waste of resources. Though it may be the only way to get all the stability control garbage to work with ABS etc.

    It wouldn't seem to be necessary for MT rigs, would it?

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • sharonklsharonkl Posts: 660
    Camry implementation for this recall model was announced November 25, 2009. But Toyota's press release regarding brake override actual installment availability in Camry model is unclear as not mentioned it appears. Q&A release unclear. I could have missed this though. So does anyone know if Toyota has been installing at service for the fix or not???

    This gentleman could very well be correct when he says it was installed.

    Did it happen? Did he have witnesses? Seems like we will have to wait to actully see if verified or not. Even if he doesn't, it still could have happened. Just ??? though. This is the sad aspect.

    Does appear other minor issues appearing after fix, possible installation brake override per complaints lodged.
  • sharonklsharonkl Posts: 660
    GM recall - steering problem
    Here is the report from article I had read. Cut & pasted. Oh, oh - seems we have pass the blame here. Curious which supplier?

    "GM blamed the issues on an external supplier partially owned by Toyota, another company currently in the process of a major recall of more than eight million vehicles. According to GM vice-chairman Bob Lutz, the supplier, which was not named, had not met "all requirements for reliability and durability." In his comments, given at the Geneva Motor Show, Lutz also said that financial responsibility for the recalls had yet to be determined."
  • sharonklsharonkl Posts: 660
    Here is the supplier GM uses for the - fix - power steering motors that can fail
    http://www.jtekt.co.jp/e/

    This is not one of the suppliers FBI raided that supply Toyota. Those are:
    Denso Corp, Yazaki North America and Tokai Rika
  • sharonklsharonkl Posts: 660
    Yes, this has existed. Seems like a reminder State Farm did alert NHTSA. Seems like NHTSA took no real action at that time. I am not sure who Bush placed in charge of NHTSA, but sure was not good choice. I hope the new top individuals - one year now for one & approx 8 weeks for other(appears politics delayed Strickland's appointment- not good)- Strickland and LaHood will do better.
  • sharonklsharonkl Posts: 660
    STICKY PEDAL - I have read multiple reports sticky pedal can cause some problems for minor UA, but not WOT SUA. At that time were only 1-2 complaints that could be sticky pedal. Most reports debunk this as the cause it seems - UA/SUA.

    Don't forget the legal lability issues for Toyota if they admit electronics problem. The pedal fix and floor mat recalls help with legal liability re" lawsuits filing claims involving UA/SUA. It is easier to place blame on the driver, etc. This is just my personal analysis. But settlements could be much larger if they say a problem exists.
    So what do we have????

    Yesterday 3/2 - Hearing - News report
    "Sen. John D. Rockefeller IV (D-W.Va.) greets Shinichi Sasaki, Toyota's executive vice president in charge of quality assurance and customer service, before Sasaki testified about Toyota's recalls before the Senate Commerce Committee. Sasaki suggested that sudden acceleration was caused by driver error. Rockefeller endorsed a rule requiring cars sold in the U.S. to have brake override systems."

    And the well known hired gun - Exponent!!! Now if there was another Erin Brockovich type helping defend the victims of these cases, investigating w assistance of safety research agencies - that would be interesting to speculate outcome. Erin and attorneys only lodged second lawsuit against PGE after the misdeeds & fraud intensely investigated, proven, & uncovered & released to the public. Took 6-8 years but did great job. Second lawsuit won too & settled for $360+ million for poor ill/affected residents of Kettleman area. These types of litigation firms do exist. And no, you do not have to be a genius to realize what they will testify, what reports produced will say!

    NEWS ALERT TODAY - Toyota will be giving $100+ million to help employees to be laid off at the Toyota/GM plant here in California. Seems Toyota made statement - wish GM would do something too. Seems little "word war" present, & was after GM executive made claim/put blame on their supplier - does have a problem & made sure to add partial owner is Toyota at an auto show.

    Do you have any predictions/best guess how this will all end???
  • sharonklsharonkl Posts: 660
    Juanita Grossman's Story:
    How Do You Slam into a Building With Both Feet on the Brake. No One Knows.

    http://www.safetyresearch.net/2010/03/01/juanita-grossman%e2%80%99s-story-how-do- -you-slam-into-a-building-with-both-feet-on-the-brake-nobody-knows/

    Was interesting story. Just posted last couple of days. Most of info at site does appear accurate. This was old report already presented, just is now more fully investigated with family. Since attorney present/witness/involved not easy to negate the story.

    Make sure you read how medical technicians found Mrs. Grossman in vehicle. Both feet on brakes.
  • sharonklsharonkl Posts: 660
    What you are describing is something alot of people like. Our old Ford Explorer never needed you to do this. Ford did not roll back. Always got our 5,000 lb boat up ramp quite easily at Loch Lomand, or Sausalito. And I was the driver. Husband did not do either. Now with my RAV4 - it rolls backward on a slight hill when you change from braking to pressing pedal. Not good system at all. Go into San Francisco, on those hills, and I get quite upset at Toyota. Since my husband died and I don't actually need, is tolerable & just am aware of it's lack here..

    I can see brake override being issue due to Toyota not having a feature to prevent this roll back. Does Toyota not have on all their autos/trucks - I am not sure. My Explorer was a great vehicle for SF hills. but then my husband also chose that vehicle, because his ambulances were Fords, and were found to be the best in SF, most reliable for that particular wear and tear. All despite their problems at that time. Guess we were lucky. Wouldn' get Explorer now, as want better gas mileage.
  • sharonklsharonkl Posts: 660
    Guess we wait to see if we find out how Toyota doing this???
  • sharonklsharonkl Posts: 660
    I loved the humor of that picture of the garage door!!! Funny! H-mmm maybe those homeowners had a Toyota??
  • sharonklsharonkl Posts: 660
    Nice of Edmunds to do this. Have any of the bright auto development/engineering minds on blogs come forward??
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,439
    David Strickland was sworn in Jan 4th. It took a year to fill the position. It was the eco nuts in his own party that nixed Obama's first choice for the head of the NHTSA.

    Strickland is the second nominee to be selected by Obama, after Charles Hurley was forced to withdraw his nomination due to heavy criticism from environmentalists.

    Committee chairman Jay Rockefeller, of West Virginia, said, “The agency is in need of strong leadership, and David is an outstanding selection.”


    Ron Medford was just filling in until the vacancy was filled.
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,439
    Wouldn' get Explorer now, as want better gas mileage.

    If you can unload your RAV4 without taking a beating the Escape from Ford is a better vehicle. Our good friends just got rid of their 2008 RAV4. Traded for a Tacoma crew cab. They like it much better. Said it rides so much better than the RAV4 and they feel safer. Not sure why. I have not mentioned the recalls. I do not like to alarm people not familiar with cars. I did make sure they were not using the rubber floor mats in the Tacoma.
  • sharonklsharonkl Posts: 660
    Since I had an Explorer, did look at the Escape back then. Unfortunately cargo space too small for my two large dog kennels. I forget exact problem, but always had my tape measure with me.

    I agree with you about the higher noise level inside Rav4. Not impressed. Vehicle does meet most of my personal needs. Some aspects I do not like. Next time will probably look at Ford too if this UA/SUA issue addressed, but will also look at what all manufacturers have out there. Etc.
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    "..Ford did not roll back.."

    We have come a LONG way in a very short time in that context.

    For reasons of FE modern day torque converters do not have as much torque conveyence at low engine RPMs as did your explorer. That's why so many new vehicles now have the "hill-start" feature that applies the brakes automatically if the vehicle moves from a stop with the engine at idle.
  • sharonklsharonkl Posts: 660
    So Demoocrats were the ones causing some problems with NHTSA head appointment . I missed all that hoopla. Had heard Strickland is/was more for safety of consumers. We shall see.
  • sharonklsharonkl Posts: 660
    Many thanks for helping here. And I think I do recall my Explorer did have hill start feature. Smile - just the uneducated - but when you said it "ah yes". In San Francisco the hills can be very steep. Explorer never rolled back, and was great. Loved that aspect, and was why I mentioned.

    Does Toyota have "hill start" feature on some vehicles now??
  • steverstever Posts: 52,462
    edited March 2010
    We're all waiting to learn the prize parameters. I have gotten a couple of emails, and I'm not even anywhere near being in the loop, so the home office is probably getting lots.

    I just posted in Toyota on the Mend about my tendency to play with my cruise control in town to tweak my speed, so I'm proposing to get rid of the accelerator pedal entirely and go to hand controls.

    One deadman switch on the left control keeps the transmission engaged - let go and it shifts immediately to neutral.

    The throttle switch for your right hand controls your actual speed.

    If your foot slips, you'll only have the brake pedal to hit.

    Wii for the car if you will.

    May as well cut the check now and send it to me - brilliant eh? Solves SUA and distracted driving at the same time. No more mascara applying or eating burgers behind the wheel, and no more cell phone calls unless you have Bluetooth. :shades:
  • revitrevit Posts: 476
    Toyota's fix is a bust, owners claim

    Some Toyota owners have begun complaining that their vehicles suddenly accelerated even after dealerships made repairs to fix the problem, according to reports filed with federal safety regulators.

    At least seven complaints, filed in the last two weeks with the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, allege that after the recall service to modify pedals and replace floor mats the cars still surged out of control.

    Although the allegations are unverified by the agency, they are a worrying sign that the nearly 10 million recall notices issued by Toyota may not fully address the problem of unintended acceleration -- which some believe is caused by problems in the electronic throttle system, rather than mechanical issues involving pedals.

    NHTSA has said it will review Toyota electronics to see whether they are a potential cause, and the automaker has commissioned a private study of its throttle system.

    The safety agency said that it had begun to investigate the new reports of recurring sudden acceleration on Tuesday. "NHTSA has already started contacting consumers about these complaints to get to the bottom of the problem and to make sure Toyota is doing everything possible to make its vehicles safe," said David Strickland, NHTSA administrator.

    Among the other complaints was one involving a 2009 Camry in Massachusetts that "still does not respond immediately to de-accelerate" after the driver's foot is taken off the pedal, even though it was taken in under the recall Feb. 22. Another described a 2008 Avalon in Atlanta that was repaired but only a few days later "accelerated on its own and . . . did about 3 loops around the garage area of the home causing damage to the car, benches, tree, bushes, lamp post, etc."

    Some consumers don't allege unintended acceleration but say the fixes created other problems in their vehicles.

    A 2007 Camry driver from Sherrill, N.Y., for example, said that since the repair, the car idles fast in reverse, cruise control does not disengage properly and various check engine lights come on. The owner of a 2005 Avalon in Houston, meanwhile, said that following the recall service, his wife stepped on the gas and found that nothing happened, causing it to lose speed on the highway.

    image
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Posts: 4,277
    NEWS ALERT TODAY - Toyota will be giving $100+ million to help employees to be laid off at the Toyota/GM plant here in California. Seems Toyota made statement - wish GM would do something too.

    Government Motors is not obligated to NUMMI or its employees any more since they went BK. NUMMI writeoff became part of Motors Liquidation Corp which means Goverment Motors has an excuse (surprised?) to wipe its hands of it. That was one of the high points of Lentzs trial hearing (Not many of them that's for sure). He came out and explained the Numi operation and when questioned by the Califrnia rep (forget his name) about "Stepping up and keeping the NUMMI open) he responded with something along the lines of "wish our partner would step up as well"...
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Posts: 4,277
    Depends on the model as far as ride goes. I drove a V6 Sport and the ride is not tuned for comfort at all. But the chassis and suspension tuning makes for a very entertaining drive, especially for and SUV. It is probably Toyotas most entertaining and sporty vehicle in the entire lineup.

    But again it's not for comfort and the interior is not even close to luxurious by any means.

    With that said, I can't see how it a Tacoma truck would be a better ride :confuse:
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Posts: 4,277
    edited March 2010
    Obama's Clowns Crashing Toyota's Circus

    link title

    First, the Wall Street Journal notes that "plaintiff attorneys," the Democratic party's major paymasters, are following the testimony closely. This publicity will make it easier for them to recruit people for lawsuits against Toyota. Then once they've collected a large client base, whatever information the hearing committee collects will save them money running down data. We can expect more lawsuits complete with bogus science - if the full power of the Federal government can't find any evidence of electronic malfunction, how can an attorney, not matter how well funded by earlier settlements?

    Second, the Obama administration's popularity is dropping like a rock. From sky-high polls at his inauguration, Mr. Obama has messed up so badly that people are talking seriously of the Republicans capturing both the House and Senate this November. Politicians in that situation will do anything at all to distract voters from their failures.



    Since Toyota plants are not unionized, every Toyota sold is that much dues money that doesn't go to the United Auto Workers. Every Toyota sold is that much money that the UAW can't use to help Democrats this coming November. Barack Obama famously fired GM's CEO; in effect, he now is the CEO of "Government Motors." Is it any wonder he's using his power to promote his company and hamstring the competition?


    :shades:
  • What is political crap doing in this forum? Moderator, please take action.
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,439
    With that said, I can't see how it a Tacoma truck would be a better ride

    I went with them a few times up Interstate 8 for breakfast. The RAV4 was decent riding. Not as stable in the wind as my Sequoia. That section of I8 has some nasty crosswinds most of the time. I think that is what they like about the Tacoma, a more stable ride. They have the two wheel drive Tacoma with V6. They traded an F150 in on the RAV4. I don't think people like myself that are used to PU trucks, can ever really be comfortable in a sedan or foo foo CUV. I don't like driving our LS400. I am just trying to wear it out. Too bad Toyota does not build them like they did in 1990.
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,439
    edited March 2010
    That is not in the Politics section. It is economic news. It seems the government has taken over everything, including production and sales of automobiles. Now they are trying to destroy the competition. Very much a part of this discussion.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 48,384
    Has taken over? To imply the government didn't have control eons ago? Please.
  • sharonklsharonkl Posts: 660
    Hope someone that professionally works in auto development/engineering decides to take this on as a pet project. Does Toyota agree to not pursue any legal action against these individuals?
  • sharonklsharonkl Posts: 660
    Now politics. This one seems to be Democratic bashing. Others I have seen seem to be Republican bashing. But it is apparent this article is not covering all the facts and statistics available. I note he quotes only the first Edmunds statistical data study on SUA/UA complaints..Yes, that long term study for totals does reveal Toyota is 17th. But does not reveal how auto manufacturers are doing more recently. First was a good study, and I commend Edmunds for undertaking this task. Then Edmunds was great and did a more recent study over past 3-4 years. Toyota had most and Ford came in second. Etc. This study can be found in Edmunds press releases at bottom of their home wesite page. And there are others available, each can be evaluated.

    Good for another opinion. But we must be fair when we evaluate. Look at all the facts out there that have come forward and compare to help validate. There is a timeline available, actions taken, documents - over the years to the present.

    Another example are the new reports coming out about Toyota's former attorney's supoenaed documents. Towns sends letter with accusations lodged against Toyota in one report. Then Issa sends Town letter accusing Town of incorrectly making statements in his letter to Toyota in one report yesterday. Another report says court documents of that case reveal SUA was was in fact claimed in that case also. A safety site has report detrimentlal to former attorney Biller. H-mmm????? Towns is chairman and would assume any letter sent and publicly released to press is representative of the committee opinion??? Chairman should have to ask for a committee vote to send such a letter and then release publicly??
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