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Comments
Exactly what details in his "body language" tell you that to be the case?
And if you're an expert on body language, how about analyzing the body langage of the toyota reps at the congressional hearing and of Lentz and of other toyota shills in interviews in their fraudulant explanations and misexplanations?
I read that they are covering up and misrepresenting. I read that they hold the US market in contempt.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
It is not Toyota that needs to be protected from corporate espionage. It is other companies patents that Toyota loves to steal. It has been corporate policy for as long as I can remember. My first example was my 1964 Land Cruiser bought new. Toyota used a part for part copy of a Chevy 6 cylinder engine. Only they used cheaper parts and the engine was a disaster. Fast forward to the Prius in question. Toyota stole ideas from several companies and are paying royalties as a result of being sued.
If you worry about Toyota being taken advantage of you need to re-evaluate your value system. That goes for anyone that feels Toyota is being treated unfairly by Congress, NHTSA or the media. It is the consumer that Toyota has used as guinea pigs to test their hybrids and their DBW systems. And so far it is the consumer that is losing, many with their lives.
No. Never. Say it's not true. toyota/lexus wouldn't do anything like that!!!
>Toyota stole ideas from several companies and are paying royalties as a result of being sued.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
---I am one however that thinks the latest "event" in SD has red flags all over it. Is it just coincidence this only occurred 5 miles from the Saylor tragedy? I'm not dismissing it but I'm waiting for the engineers to say something after examining the car.
---In fact I'm waiting for the engineers to say anything. I'm tired of the politics and media hype(like Brian Ross doctored video).
I read Claybrook's testimony(thanks Sharon for the post). I haven't seen any reaction from it. I thought she was very forthright and expected something from the "lapdogs".
finally, unless I missed it, where are the all reports and outrage from the rest of the world- Europe, Asia etc. about UA? Did Toyota just send them all to the USA and California specifically?
I think it is World Wide. We just happen to be Toyota's largest market. I think most cases on UA are only reported to the dealers. And the owner is sent on his way thinking it will not happen again. And most times it does not. That is what makes it hard for Toyota to find. If they are really looking hard???
PS
California is the largest Prius market.
Thanks, Don
I was left with impression article report US is best, but still has many problems. US owners are much more proactive, have more organized active safety agencies representing owner/publics safety interests, etc.
Please know this article could not be verified. l have not seen alot of news report information about other countries and their safety agencies.
CTS was blamed was blamed by Toyota for having slight defect, for the aceleration, but pedal really did not cause most of SUA/UA complaints it per testimony during the congressional hearings. There seemed to only be 2+ complaints lodged on NHTSA data base about pedal sticking a little. Differences of expert opinions do exist that fix will eliminate SUA/UA.
Toyota USA Newsroom has all press releases regarding the recalls, instructions and which vehicles included.
SO....PEEEEZE, just find the darn thing already, and whomever that "honor" goes to.....they can the use (well make all the crazy cell phone users (While driving at least)! :sick:
Ehhhh, :shades: Might as well use the same law to stop them from crunching on the french friesssss
\
Why isn't that a surprise to me.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
It is just about the best vehicle I have ever owned. It is the third Toyota I have owned that has never had one defect or issue I needed to repair in the last 10 years. Just sayin for the record for all the bashers here.
HOw far does the brake pedal need to be depressed for the throttle to be set idle? How long does this disabling of the throttle last? I'm sure it doesn't stay off forever.
Let's be real here.
Those pedals were supposedly MADE BY DENSO (Japanese) AND NOT CTS (Indiana/Canada plant SO FAR it is only the CTS pedal assembly ...I think the jury is out on the Denso assembly thoughl
From what I have been told SO FAR!!!!
Denso vs CTS link!
http://www.carzbuzz.com/story/ttacs-complete-guide-to-toyotas-gas-pedals-teardow- - - n-pictures-toyotas-fix-analysis-commentary
Surely I hope your just exaggerating.
I see Semi trucks with dual fully loaded trailers driving 65 to 70MPH on the freeway regularly and safely all the time. Surely a Prius could out handle and out brake those behemoths. I find it hard to believe a Prius is unsafe at anything below 70 MPH.
Please supply any crash/fatality/injury statistics that would support your statement please!!!!
Are there any figures out there that would show owning or driving a Toyota puts you at increased risk of injury or fatality per mile driven?
I seriously doubt this when you have tin can Kia's on the road.
Only far enough to "trip" the brake light microswitch and as long as it remains tripped, if designed correctly.
And remember putting the ICE at Idle is not the "target", putting the entire drive system in regenerative braking mode IS. The ICE itself may well remain well above idle.
As a Toyota owner - here is what I have done.
A - I had the recalls performed.
B - I have familiarized myself with the operation of the car and determined that in less than 3 seconds, I can hit the brakes, put the car in neutral, turn on my emergency flashers, and turn the ignition off. I have also determined (by actually doing it in an empty parking lot) that I can still steer the car and that I still have plenty of braking power. I find it very suspicious that people would be willing to run their car at 95 MPH through a busy intersection before trying any and all of these things. I find it hard to believe that someone would grab their cell phone and dial 911 before trying any and all of these things. I conclude that something smells rotten here. I also conclude that these are exceptionally rare events with 3.8 million recalled vehicles on the road and that the chances of me experiencing it are very rare. I have also concluded that if there really is a problem here, it is damn hard to reproduce it. I have concluded that we must, as rational beings accept the fact that some percentage of the reports are people who hit the wrong pedal, are attention seekers, or possibly even suicidal. I conclude that I am probably being hurt more by the accelerated depreciation of my new car than I am by any defect in the car. I conclude that lots of people just like to [non-permissible content removed] and moan.
http://www.safetyresearch.net/Library/ToyotaSUA020510FINAL.pdf
Yes, you can do all of that, but most of it only provided the firmware is "listening".
LOL!!! You are hilarious man!
Even if we take you at surface value. Nothing you wrote or said would be something that could be missed during a simple test drive. Don't like it or got confused, then don't buy it. I don't believe anyone has accused Audi of putting a gun to someone's head to buy an Audi 5000. Therefore, it's the customer's fault, driver error 100%.
The design was apparent to anyone that isn't blind or in a coma. If you found the design to be a poor one, then buying it anyway doesn't make sense.
That would be very different to someone that's clearly bought multiple houses with no intention of paying them off, run up over $60K in CREDIT CARD DEBT, and is a real estate agent.
Heck, where on the totem pole do you put those agents, right above banker and insurance agent? Where does car salesman fit?
I'd be willing to bet the farm this guy never had impeccable credit.
On page 22 they have a used car reliability chart based on repairs made by thousands of their subscribers annually. Toyota is clearly ahead of all the other manufacturers from years two through ten of vehicles' lifetimes. For the first two years they are all fairly similar, but by year ten, Toyos average about 62 problems per 100 vehicles, while Volkswagen and Hyundai are up around 150 problems per 100 cars. But Hyundai are improving rapidly, and their cars 10 years ago were much lower quality than today, so they should be improving rapidly in this chart over the years.
That said, they have been shameful in recent years with these problems and customer service. Thanks to all you folks for piling on, because that will only make them better in upcoming years. And I'm not a Toyo nut, because I have two older Ford Tauruses and a Mustang convertable that I like. My Avalon is way better than the Fords, and many Fords have been recalled in past years for electrical fires, exploding gas tanks, etc., but I'm very happy Ford is doing so well now. Consumer Reports currently does not recommend any Toyo products now due to the current problems, but they have never had one of their test cars do it, nor has my Avalon. If it does, I'll be screaming, of course.
And was that a picture of a race car of his I saw or his Prius decked out like one? So the guy drives a race car and is afraid to put the car in neutral???
I practice that every day in my Avalon, also practice pushing the parking brake so I have the position memorized. If it's an electronic circuit problem that only occurs once per 100,000 cars, and each car has to be driven 20,000 miles before it happens, they may never find the cause. Every mile your car drives there are hundreds, if not thousands, of voltage changes in the ECM. JMHO.
Your instinctive reactions, INITIAL reactions, in a panic situation will not always be the most logical one.
Almost spit out my coffee when I read that statement.
CR's alleged survey is sort of like having cute little Brownies in the entrance way to Kroger's on Saturday morning taking opinions as people come in to do their shopping. A convencience survey: not a random survey.
CR's opinions in their writeups have more sway than any information they get from their strangely biased demographics of subscribers.Remember when Nader was there.
JD Powers is a true random survey.
Here's a link to one of Edmund's CR and JDPowers discussions for further info.
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/WebX/.f106481/673
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Saw interesting table labeled "potential deaths from SUA" One could read a lot into that mistakenly I think.
HHAHAAHAHAH :surprise:
Come on now, you can't really be that Naïve!
CHP officer's perjure themselves all the time on the stand in court. Have you ever been to any traffic court sessions? It's a ridiculous circus of boiler-plate testimony for details that they don't have the slightest memory of; CHP officer's lie commonly and frequently. Its really their standing operating procedure to be dishonest for the purpose of "winning" a conviction; all the time.
They lie all the time in court over $200 speeding tickets, why would more serious cases be any different? I think the whole LAPD was shown to be dishonest and filled with conspiracies by the dream team of OJ's defense. OJ was deemed "not guilty" at least 50% in part because the prosecution was proved to be lying and concealing facts about certain officers' character and history.
I can't, and neither can most level headed average Americans, ESPECIALLY after all the hoopla with the stupid Saylor "I never tried to put it in neutral" deaths. I admit, that the 911 operator Saylor got was negligent, whereas at least Sikes' was competent in telling him to put it in neutral.
CHP has found no evidence of a hoax.
They are lazy, and since it doesn't benefit them, they have no intention on spending any man-hours to look at evidence of a hoax.
I think the fact that Sikes had a lease shows financial motive against Toyota to get out of the lease. I bet he's over on his allowed mileage too!.
Have that news article bookmarked..
I don't buy anything based just on what they say, and sometimes I disagree with them, but in my opinion they are the best overall. They buy their own cars and question the subscribers with an annual questionnaire of their problems. Much more reliable than R&T and other magazines that get free cars to test.
As far as JD Powers, they are also interesting, but I'm not so much personally interested in their initial quality ratings for a new car, which might say that brake dust is as bad as a failed motor, since I buy my cars used and keep them for a long time. I'm more interested in five to ten years out how their quality is. If it has pretty cosmetics with low quality and good looks, a poor car can look good its first year, but over ten years it really shows up. Would you rather have a ten year old car with 62 repairs per 100 cars or one that has 150 repairs per 100 cars per year?
And for sure, just because a car is rated low by CR, doesn't mean don't buy it. They will usually depreciate lots more and be cheaper to buy and maybe that's more important to you.
Trade in value, i.e., the free market is also many times a good indicator of a car's reliability, and it's hurting Toyo right now till they get this problem solved, but it was very good before this came up.
I had trouble understanding your link, because to me the posting seemed to favor CR over JD Powers. It reads, "I know it`s a bit off topic but since the CR vs JD Power thread is inactive and since a lot of folks-salesmen and buyers both- trash CR and say it is inaccurate and its reports are biased or false and that JD power relatively is a better survey,here is a link which shows the absurdity ,crappy nature of the JD Power.
Brake dust is equivalent to engine failure on their survey and their chief acknowledges this brazenly Go Figure !! No wonder brands like LandRover try to trumpet this stupid rating system and claim their vehicles are more reliable. And it also shows how Hyundai is really catching up to Honda/Toyota which as a buyer is a good thing for me."
I'll tell you for sure, salesmen for the bad brands absolutely hate CR because it kills a lot of sales for them. I know, because my wife used to work for a dealer and we have lots of salesmen and mechanic friends, and most of the mechanics tell me the Toyos and Hondas are among the best, even though lots of them drive Jeeps and pickups.
Bottom line here: No need to panic if you're driving a Toyo. Extremely unlikely to have a problem. Pratice putting it in neutral, turning ignition off (3 seconds of constant pushing required for keyless ignitions), putting on parking brake. Don't pump the brake if engine turns off because it will quit working. I've had several friends buy new cars that had more problems than their old ones. FWIW.
So far my Toyo Avalon since new has only had one repair, cracked plastic around the GPS, before 50k miles, then front brakes and one new tire, and it needs a new power window switch that I haven't fixed yet. But it's twice as good as any other car I've had. Drives like a new car, goes down the highway silently inside, has 10 or more speakers in the stereo.
I was a tech in the lab while working my way through college, and that's where I found out about CR and started reading it.
Yes, I'm working as much as I want, am now partially retired, and all my bills and my cars are paid for except for the credit card for the cruise we just got back from. I'm in a different field than engineering now.
Hope you are doing well too.
I concur.
I would also add that people just like to whine, and it seems no one can take personal responsibility for their own mistakes.
Agreed, but we as Americans need to learn to OWN UP to our mistakes and claim them. Personal responsibility for ones own mistakes please!!!
We can't always blame the designers and engineers for what was already very apparent, and reasonably predictable.
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fiw-toyota-deaths-list28-2010feb28,0,98986.st- ory
You'll also find they are somewhat delusional in thinking that the quality of their vehicles had nothing to do with their recent failures, bankruptcies, and bailouts.
It was all in CR's "head" and imagined, nothing real there.
You'll also find they are somewhat delusional in thinking that the quality of their vehicles had nothing to do with their recent failures, bankruptcies, and bailouts
well that is no big shocker! was is surprising and the people who still think CR is bias and poor in their reviews and ratings is that since 2008 when Ford, GM, and Chrysler began their turn around, more and more of their vehicles have been added the recommended list year after year; I just went out and bought my yearly review and ratings CR mag and I would have to double check, but I think almost the entire Ford line is recommended now, with several models getting better and much better then avg reliability ratings! in fact, the Fusion is much above avg and had an almost perfect ranking across the board; GM has improved with several models being on the recommended list and a couple models being above avg reliability so I don't know where the bias is?
anyway, Nissan is a Japanese company and they actually lowered in brand reliability because of the continued avg reliability and problems with their pick-up trucks and SUVs, namely the Armada and Titan! Nissan is good at making sports cars, sedans, and crossovers, but if you look at the reliability history charts, their pickups and SUVs have much to be desired!
PWS. I would be the last to knock an engineer, if they don't deserve criticism and are did not cause fault. My son owns his own corporation and does auto development/engineering so do understand some of the business aspects.
So there is 56 ALLEGED deaths due to SUA in Toyota's.
How many for the other manufacturers?
More importantly, how many deaths per vehicle sold/driven? In total, period. I think that is a good indication of safety across the board, looking at the total number of deaths in a certain manufacturer's vehicles, regardless of the cause. Of course, you have to account for the fact that Toyota has outsold GM lately.