Nebraska Guy...do you use the Live Traffic in Wash DC? I would not need the service in my home location and with Bluetooth working well with my Cingular service will not need the ON Star.. The XM radio is supurb and will definately keep that going. Do you know off hand if the Live Traffic and On Star renews automatically? / Do I have to inform them in advance this fall that I want to discontinue the service?
And your point would be? Other than NavTraffic which isn't available on other cars, as far as I know, the other fees are exactly the same as on any other car.
I didn't know that OnStar was available on most other cars - my bad! I do not need OnStar, I do not need NavTraffic, hence these monthly cable style fees are a nusance. My point is that the RLs technological claim to fame is cable TV style monthly service fees that I do not need.
Nebraska Guy...do you use the Live Traffic in Wash DC? I would not need the service in my home location and with Bluetooth working well with my Cingular service will not need the ON Star.. The XM radio is supurb and will definately keep that going. Do you know off hand if the Live Traffic and On Star renews automatically? / Do I have to inform them in advance this fall that I want to discontinue the service?
No, I do not use NavTraffic in DC - my commute is such that I don't need it. I probably won't renew OnStar, though the emergency features (automatically sending help if your airbags deploy and stolen car trace) make it somewhat attractive. I will definitely renew XM radio. If you haven't given OnStar or XM a credit card number, it won't automatically renew.
My point is that the RLs technological claim to fame is cable TV style monthly service fees that I do not need.
Then do not renew them. They're there for those who want or need them.
I don't think they're "RLs technological claim to fame". They're simply features the RL offers, which many other cars also offer. These days, if a car doesn't offer many of those features, they'll get left out of the competition. I, for example, wouldn't consider a car without XM. A friend loves OnStar and wouldn't consider a car without it.
Another note about XM - a friend bought an Accord with XM and thought it ridiculous to spend money for a radio service, so he let the service lapse. Two months later, he renewed, he missed it so much.
I don't think they're "RLs technological claim to fame".
I guess its a matter of perspective - EVERY review, brochure, advertisement, etc intentially points out the SH-AWD and the AcuraLink to NavTraffic feature. Other than these two features I am unaware of any technology that the Acura RL can brag on that is a true advancement over the competition.
I guess its a matter of perspective - EVERY review, brochure, advertisement, etc intentially points out the SH-AWD and the AcuraLink to NavTraffic feature.
In your initial posting, you didn't mention any of the above features, except NavTraffic, and none, except NavTraffic are relevant to your initial posting which complained about all the "service" fees associated, and that was what I was responding to. In my opinion, SH-AWD is a great feature, and is worth bragging about. AcuraLink is a nice feature, but not one on which I'd base a buying decision.
I could be mistaken but I thought that AcuraLink was essentially synonymous with NavTraffic. Is it not AcuraLink that connects a simple XM radio station to the Navi? Simplied explanation of course. But SH-AWD and AcuraLink NavTraffic is what supposed sets the RL apart. Just what good is AcuraLink w/o NavTraffic?
There is no relationship betweent the two. Per Acura's webpage - "AcuraLink™ satellite communication system--a new, state-of-the-art service that provides you with the latest car-related and diagnostic information via satellite. Utilizing XM® Satellite Radio, AcuraLink works in conjunction with your vehicle's navigation, HandsFreeLink™ (HFL), and audio systems to send and receive messages." You need XM radio for AcuraLink to work, but not NavTraffic.
Your post from June 16th included the following: "I used to own an '02 TL-S and almost traded it for an '04 or '05 TL. We've also owned two MDXs (old '01 and currently an '04); I have always viewed Acura as a "best-bang-for-the-buck" manufacturer. I have test driven the TL several times and have gotten them as loaner cars during MDX servicing. I've also test driven the RL several times and am currrently debating a new car purchase - either an RL or an M35."
Did you drive the M35 and what do you think of it today compared to the RL?
Per Acura's webpage - "AcuraLink™ satellite communication system--a new, state-of-the-art service that provides you with the latest car-related and diagnostic information via satellite. Utilizing XM® Satellite Radio, AcuraLink works in conjunction with your vehicle's navigation,
Did you drive the M35 and what do you think of it today compared to the RL?
Because my Acura dealer shafted me on my '02 TL-S trade-in for an '04 TL I ended up getting an '04 FX35 last September. I took the MDX in for an oil change in December and saw the RL for the first time and was instantly smitten (I should point out that I somewhat regret not getting another sedan). This past March I was again at the dealership getting an MDX oil change and had the opportunity to talk to my sales rep (cautiously after the TL fiasco); he informed me that they were very disappointed in RL sales and that he could get me a great price. I must say that I was "completely" sold on the RL at that point.
Thus began research and test drives that continues to this day. One can not help but read about the M-class while researching the RL. I was particularly struck by the M's performance in virtally all professional reviews. I first saw the M in late March when I took the FX in for an oil change. My first impression, although positive, was that it fell short of the RL. The more I read and researched the more the pendulum began to shift. I must say that the more I sit in and drive the RL the less impressed I am (it is not nearly as quiet as I had hoped for); it has several QC issues, an ignition switch design flaw, and integral technology that I can do without. And my biggest issue is that it is way overpriced (its not a "best-bang-for-the-buck" Acura like my MDX is).
I have had the RL and the M35 Sport on several test drives and overall I rate them equal as far as ride, handling and noise goes. I want to do more test drives in both as well as the M35 non-sport. As I said first impressions are more or less equal as far a driving - but I want to nit-pick each on subsequant test drives.
Even though I haven't bought yet, I am strongly leaning toward avoiding an '05 RL period. If I wait until the fall (M35 prices should be better by then), I'll take a look at the '06 RL. But if I had to buy today I'd get the M35.
Is it not AcuraLink that connects a simple XM radio station to the Navi? Simplied explanation of course.
Guess I have to quote myself Lets just agree to disagree. The RLs technological "uniqueness" IS its SH-AWD and the NavTraffic on the Navi via AcuraLink - please fell free to clarify any other UNIQUE technologies the RL brings to the table. Otherwise I do not understand your disagreements with what I've been saying :confuse:
Anyone with XM radio can subscribe to Traffic Radio (hence non-unique) - Acura (thru its AcuraLink technology) has tied it to their Navigation system (which is unique).
Otherwise I do not understand your disagreements with what I've been saying
Since your arguments keep morphing, it's no wonder you don't understand my disagreement with you. You've gone from complaining about all the "service" fees on the RL to arguing that nothing the RL has, except SH-AWD, is unique. Each time I respond, you disagree by arguing about a different point. So, to quote you - let's just agree to disagree (though about what, I'm not quite sure).
I don't know what happened. At the time, you might have been able to hit the back button on your browser and retrieved it, but since it never got to the server there wouldn't be anything that could be done on this side.
My quad surgery has healed sufficiently to enable me to drive for short periods. Having been away from the RL for three months, I had forgotten the one reservation I had about my purchase: the jittery, hyper-active suspension. I was soon reminded of it this past weekend when my wife drove us to our place in Amagansett, roughly 100 miles, to the eastern end of Long Island. Having been enthralled with the RL and all of its componenets, I was distraught by the consistent jouncing which was even evident on fairly smooth roads.
Yesterday, before having written the post that vanished mysteriously, I had gone to a dealer in Valley Stream and test drove an RL demo, with the same result. I believe that this characteristic had been the subject of some discussion when the first deliveries took place. At that time, I was so thrilled with the RL that my critical faculties must have gone to sleep, although I did permit some dissatisfaction to filter through my delight, and then let it slip away while I enjoyed the electronics and great engine performance. Now, however, after our 200 mile round trip, having been shaken to and fro, I have deep, deep regrets.With tax and extras, this purchase came to $54K and I'd be hard pressed to get $45K for it now as I know the car is being generously discounted. So, I'll stick with it for a year or two as it's not intolerable - just uncomfortable.Bottom line: I didn't drive my '96 RL for nine years, waiting, for a disappointment such as this.
Is anyone out there supressing dissatisfaction with the problem, as I've described it? Our Acura loyalty sometimes takes on the role of an anodyne and seals our lips.
acuraphile, your experience reads like an epiphony. But I doubt you will get much confirmation at this time. I am curious as to how this surprised you, though. Hadn't your wife been transporting you around during your recovery?
Is anyone out there supressing dissatisfaction with the problem, as I've described it?
The RL's ride is definitely a little rougher than I'd like, though I wouldn't describe it anything like you did. However, I do like the sporty handling and I'm not sure you can have both a smooth ride and sporty handling. If I had to pick between the two, I'd pick sporty handling.
I know what you are saying about acura's suspension as they have been mooving toward stiffer suspension on all their models. I believe they are moving their design criteria toward more performance and hence a stiffer ride goes with it. Having said that though, I like the suspension in my 2005 RL, but I did get rid of my 2004 TL (traded it in on my 2005 RL) because it was too stiff to suite my tastes. The 2004/2005 TL almost jars your teeth when you hit a bump, by contrast I feel the 2005 RL is really smooth!! Yes it is firm, but not really too stiff.
You've gone from complaining about all the "service" fees on the RL to arguing that nothing the RL has, except SH-AWD, is unique.
Absolutely not true and I don't get why you'd make that claim :confuse: I have always admitted TWO technologies that are unique to the RL; SH-AWD and AcuraLinked NavTraffic (how can you deny that ???). Now I have questioned the value of the AcuraLinked NavTraffic. But I do thank you for clarifying that it is these TWO and only these TWO technologies that the RL can claim to uniquely offer something the competition cannot.
Now, however, after our 200 mile round trip, having been shaken to and fro, I have deep, deep regrets.With tax and extras, this purchase came to $54K and I'd be hard pressed to get $45K for it now as I know the car is being generously discounted.
Its no secret that after an earlier infatuation with the RL my feelings are leaning toward the M35 now. I still like some things about the RL; however I think the car is way overpriced to begin with. Its a nice car and all, but SH-AWD and AcuraLinked NavTraffic alone are NOT worth the premium in my opinion. Also I too was somewhat surprised that the ride was not smoother and quiter on my test drives.
But more to the point; I took my MDX in for an oil change this morning and there were 29 RLs on the dealer's lot (6 out front, 1 in the showroom, and 22 out back). I know for a fact that I can buy a brand new one for Invoice or less; I doubt very seriously you could get anywhere near $45K on a trade :sick: Good luck. Sterling McCall in Houston had a used (8000 miles) RL on the lot last week they offered me for $44K (includes extended warranty and 18" wheels).
Hello I am interested in either a 2002 TL Type S or 2002 RL. I know these are two different cars. I want the power of the Type S but have heard a lot of issues with the transmission. I am looking at the RL for the reliability. I would rather go for the TL Type S (more fun to drive) but would only go to RL for reliability. Any advise. thanks
I used to own an '02 TL-S and was given an extended warranty for the transmission to 100K miles. My '02 had no issues during the 56K miles I owned it. I recommend that you inquire about the transmission of any '02 TL-S you find (perhaps consider Acura Certified) and ask about the 100K warranty.
. "Hadn't your wife been transporting you around during your recovery?"
Surprisingly crisp inquiry, tayl.
Yes, but I was transported flat on my back on the rear seat, encased in a three foot steel brace that couldn't get by the front passenger door frame - I wasn't critiquing the ride during those moments. Do you feel betrayed?
Acuraphile, Glad your quad recovery is coming along to the point of allowing you to drive the RL. Isn't it great to get way out on the eastern edge of Long Island. My brother-in-law had us join his family at a summer home near Sag Harbor in the 80's and we have good memories of that trip and how much it reminded us of Door County here in Wi. Ok George.. you came across a meaningful disappointment in your suspension system and I felt it in your post. I am very sorry that you feel the way you do about the ride because I know how much you like everything else about the car. I knew it had a sportier ride than previous RLs but far superior and smoother than the TL which we had passed on. I just returned from a 200 mile round trip today to my home town in the RL and was feeling great about everything. There were 4 of us (3 women) and it was a very smooth trip. I had to hit the jets a couple of times to move around some slow movers and the power is definately there when you need it. Hoping that your recovery continues and that you find greater comfort soon.
Me thinks the suspension setting for the RL is just fine as is. In fact, I wouldn't mind a little less body roll around the curves, myself. Having driven many of the RL's competitors over the past few months, I would suggest that the RL's suspension is very much comparable to BMW, Lexus (sans the Beluga Whale LS and the Son-Of-Camry ES), Infiniti, and even Mercedes. The M35/45 definitely rides as tight or tighter than the RL, and with the Sport package, the M is considerably harsher. But many drivers like them that way.
To some extent, we don't have the best roads in some parts of the U.S., and I suppose washboard surfaces and suspension joints on some byways can cause a bit more of a jittery ride.
There have been a handful of complaints on these boards about the RL's suspension tuning being too stiff. Can I have a show of hands from those folks...are they over/under 60 yrs old? Compared to the previous RL, the current model definitely has a tighter suspension. The new RL is nothing like the prior model, that much is for sure.
A few complaints are also being registered regarding the touring suspension on the new Avalon. I think the older generation that got used to the Buick-esque ride of the previous Avalon was a bit shocked by the tighter touring version that is available on the new '06 Avalon.
Many of us like our cars to ride like the Barcoloungers in the family room. And the more cupholders the better.
Personally, I'd rather drive and feel the road. I think the RL is just right in this regard.
The RL's ride can be dramatically upgraded by the addition of 18" wheels and premium tires like the Pirelli PZero Nero M+S. The combination of larger wheel size and softer, quieter riding rubber makes an incredible difference in the ride comfort road noise departments. Best part: the wonderful handling is the same or even better.
If you are at all uncomfortable with the ride (which is tight though supple in my opinion), I strongly urge you to look into 18" Pirelli's. You will not be disappointed.
I love my 2002 RL (which replaced a 1999 TL). But I do a lot of highway driving and am long past the days of spirited driving along twisty roads. The seat in the RL is far more comfortable than the new RL and the ride is a great blend of smoothness and control. So in my opinion, you can't compare an RL with a TL. The TL is just sportier and a stiffer ride. Decide what is best for you and get it. If the TL is it, check into extended warranties (Acura will go 7 years/100K miles) and whether or not the car you're getting has had any transmission work. Happy hunting.
Just a quick comment based on driving my 05 RL. Too me the suspension is very good, but I tend to prefer a firmer handling sportier ride. With the RL I consciously went for more of a luxury feel. I think Acura/Honda is targeting the Sport/Luxury niche (BMW, Infiniti, Lexus GS, etc) and not the Cadillac, Lexus (LS,ES) ride
I think the standard suspension has a bit too much roll and is a little soft but bearable from a handling performance point of view. It seems to me it is more of a drivers car than the previous RL was and I believe that was a conscious decision on their part. In the road test in Road and Track they refer to a meeting with an Acura representative who comes out and says they had moved too far into the luxury/soft ride area.
I also looked at the Infiniti M35x and BMW 530Xi but thought the Acura was the best combination of ride and performance at the price. I got a nice discount off sticker and am very happy with the car so far.
OK I have to admit that I was wrong and swallow a little crow NavTraffic linked to a cars navigation system is NOT a unique technology to the RL. From the XM website:
The XM NavTraffic system launched in October 2004 as a standard feature on the all-new 2005 Acura RL with resounding success to revolutionize in-car GPS navigation systems. In January 2005, General Motors added XM NavTraffic to the 2005 Cadillac CTS as a feature included on all vehicles equipped with their optional DVD-based navigation system. For the aftermarket, Pioneer has launched the AVIC-N2 and AVIC-D1 as the first aftermarket product supporting the XM NavTraffic capability. Other car company and aftermarket applications are expected in the near future.
Thanks for your comments, jj. I celebrated my 80th birthday last week. At age 72, I sold my 750 Honda, my third and last bike. I mention this so there are no misconceptions about my driving preferences - (I never had a Buick "Park Avenue" mentality!) In 1944, I flew PT-13's and had a few hours in an AT-6. Ten years ago, I was having fun, accompanied by an instructor, flying 172s on weekends out at Republic Airport.You're corrrect: I do love my RL; I just wish that I was less tuned in to the active ride. I love it's sportiness. so perhaps it's my age that's expressing its desire to be accommodated! LOL!
In retrospect, I guess I wasn't ragging on the RL's suspension, after all - maybe the years were just saying "Hello!" I'm sure you dig my meaning.
I'm still a card-carrying RL-er. Warm regards, George.
OK I have to admit that I was wrong and swallow a little crow NavTraffic linked to a cars navigation system is NOT a unique technology to the RL.
Well, you've finally done it - you've convinced me the RL is not at all unique and therefore, a totally terrible car. By the way, does anyone want to buy a slightly used 2005 RL? It's not at all unique in any way, except SH-AWD, but it's not a bad car overall. Actually, I think you'd like it - it's a dream to drive, it has a fantastic sound system, the best nav system of any car around, and quite a few nice gadgets, including keyless entry (though quite a few of us RL owners haven't quite got the hang of this here newfangled gadget). Hey wait just a gosh darned minute, I just reread my last sentence - it really is a pretty nice car, despite what a few naysayers on here have to say. I think I'll keep it.
"In retrospect, I guess I wasn't ragging on the RL's suspension, after all - maybe the years were just saying "Hello!" I'm sure you dig my meaning."
George, I was thinking it, but wasn't going to bring it up. (Far be it for me to meddle with a man whom I know comes from Tom Brokaw's "The Greatest Generation").
Incidently with all due respect, around here motorcycles that aren't manufactured in Hog Heaven (Milwaukee) just don't get a lot of respect. (But, between you, me, and the gatepost the Honda is a better bike.) There is something very special about the Harley mystique though, not only here but across the country and in many parts of the world.
PS You'll be ready to take on the RL suspension in no time...but there is no hurry. I am reminded of a long recovery from terrible lower back spinal stenosis and excruciating left leg sciatica and many sleepless nights. (and...thoughts of never playing my sport again) A Vince Lombardi quote from the Glory Years comes to mind...."Fatigue makes cowards of us all!" ... Heck, at age 80 I probably would want to be accomodated with massages and mint juleps.
"George, I was thinking it, but wasn't going to bring it up. (Far be it for me to meddle with a man whom I know comes from Tom Brokaw's "The Greatest Generation")."
jjacura:
You were right on target, my man! We just arrived out east a few minutes ago - Amagansett, L.I. territory. The ride was fine. Anyhow, it's nice having an advocate such as yourself. Thanks.
... it really is a pretty nice car, despite what a few naysayers on here have to say ...
Dude, I like the RL. I love Acura's Navi - I am on my third one! (Traded an '01 MDX for an '04 MDX that we still have; used to own an '02 TL-S). However, I will give any $45K+ car a very hard and critical scrutiny and evaluate ALL of its pro, cons, unique features, shortcomings, missing features, etc!!!!!!!!! The RL is on my short list.
It is my hope that I can use Edmunds as a research tool to FULLY evaluate the cars on my list, not simply touting the positives, while glossing over the negative. :shades:
It's not just about "glossing over the negative," it seems to be a full-on assault to try to completely squelch anything negative; whether it's true or not. :moreshades:
"It's not just about "glossing over the negative," it seems to be a full-on assault to try to completely squelch anything negative; whether it's true or not."
Well if a negative is true...bring it on. If it's not true......what do you think? :sick:
If you wish to opine, fine....... but continuous bashing, not appreciated!
"Well, I hit him hard right between the eyes And he went down, but to my surprise, He come up with a knife and cut off a piece of my ear. But I busted a chair right across his teeth And we crashed through the wall and into the street Kicking and a' gouging in the mud and the blood and the beer_ _Johnny Cash "A Boy Named Sue" 1969
A local outlet of a national tire/wheel store said that the Bayern Mesh wheel (generally for BMWs) will fit the 05 RL in either 17 or 18s. I had read that the RL bolt pattern is somewhat unusual thus limiting the wheel alternatives. The tire store indicated the bolt pattern is the same now as BMW and would have no problem fitting these or other Bayern wheels to the RL. Anyone hear to the contrary or can confirm this?
Of those that have switched out of the OEM tires and have selected high (or ultra high) performance all season tires such as Michelin Pilot Sport A/S or Pirelli Zero Nero A/S, how have you liked the change and any regrets in doing so? Thanks
I switched out the oem tires to the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S and feel there is a noticable improvement. The ride is smoother, the tires are are quiter the steering seems more precise and the handling is better. I havent experienced it yet but I understand they are better on wet and/or snow covered roads too. Plus they have a better tread life according to other customers on the tire rack. I would definitely do it again.
I would not recommend going to 18" wheels unless you want a stiffer ride. The larger wheel recuires a lower profile tire (shorter tire sidewall), and thus you end up with a stiffer ride but with better handling. Be careful, you need to maintain the 26.8" overall outside diameter of the tire no matter what size wheels you put on in order to maintain the functionality of the electronic systems that control the ShAWD and electronic traction control.
Agreed.....when I was finalizing the decision on the RL I asked the salesman about the 18 " wheels and despite the cost of $2,350 more, he advised no, because of the stiffer ride :lemon: with the low profile tires. My only regret was not buying the ultra performance tires you recommend here. So the decision now would be...spend the $800+ for a better ride now or down the road when the wear pattern requires it at maybe 50,000 miles....but by then the 2009 model will be looking pretty good to me
I agree with you that buying new 17" tires immediately was a hard decision, but my logic in the beginning centered around the better control issue in the winter/snow driving conditions. I know the car has ShAWD, and traction control,but steering traction and stopping is still limited by the tires ability to grip in wet and snow conditions. Not to mention I already spent almost 50K on the car, so I went ahead.
The Pilot Sport tires have a customer rating of 7.2 out of a possible 10 for capability in the snow, and the OEM HX MXM4's only rate 4.4. So I looked at it as though the diminished risk of an accident in winter would be worth it. Also the wet traction and resistance to hydroplaning numbers on the Pilot Sport A/S is 8.7 vs 5.8. So the other improvements (quiter, smoother ride, improved handling) for me were just icing on the cake. Plus I sold my old tires for $400
"I would not recommend going to 18" wheels unless you want a stiffer ride."
Others such as Post # 6505 above seem to have good experiences with the 18" wheel in terms of ride and noise quality. I think the ride is just about right with it being a bit stiff to enable good corner/handling but not so stiff as to be uncomfortable or unpleasant, at least for me. Others I know may differ.
I am certainly mindful of the need to have the wheel/tire combo fit with the functionality of the RL and not inadvertantly diminish any of its great characteristics. I am trying to even further enhance the handling without materially reducing any other function. Many seem to swear by the Pirelli Zero Nero so that is one of my motivators in considering the 18" size. I have only read good things too about the Pilot Sport a/s which is available in the 17" size. Decisions, decisions. Keep those opinions coming as they are very helpful.
Comments
I didn't know that OnStar was available on most other cars - my bad! I do not need OnStar, I do not need NavTraffic, hence these monthly cable style fees are a nusance. My point is that the RLs technological claim to fame is cable TV style monthly service fees that I do not need.
PS: I am also aware of the RLs SH-AWD technology.
No, I do not use NavTraffic in DC - my commute is such that I don't need it. I probably won't renew OnStar, though the emergency features (automatically sending help if your airbags deploy and stolen car trace) make it somewhat attractive. I will definitely renew XM radio. If you haven't given OnStar or XM a credit card number, it won't automatically renew.
Then do not renew them. They're there for those who want or need them.
I don't think they're "RLs technological claim to fame". They're simply features the RL offers, which many other cars also offer. These days, if a car doesn't offer many of those features, they'll get left out of the competition. I, for example, wouldn't consider a car without XM. A friend loves OnStar and wouldn't consider a car without it.
Another note about XM - a friend bought an Accord with XM and thought it ridiculous to spend money for a radio service, so he let the service lapse. Two months later, he renewed, he missed it so much.
I guess its a matter of perspective - EVERY review, brochure, advertisement, etc intentially points out the SH-AWD and the AcuraLink to NavTraffic feature. Other than these two features I am unaware of any technology that the Acura RL can brag on that is a true advancement over the competition.
In your initial posting, you didn't mention any of the above features, except NavTraffic, and none, except NavTraffic are relevant to your initial posting which complained about all the "service" fees associated, and that was what I was responding to. In my opinion, SH-AWD is a great feature, and is worth bragging about. AcuraLink is a nice feature, but not one on which I'd base a buying decision.
There is no relationship betweent the two. Per Acura's webpage - "AcuraLink™ satellite communication system--a new, state-of-the-art service that provides you with the latest car-related and diagnostic information via satellite. Utilizing XM® Satellite Radio, AcuraLink works in conjunction with your vehicle's navigation, HandsFreeLink™ (HFL), and audio systems to send and receive messages." You need XM radio for AcuraLink to work, but not NavTraffic.
"I used to own an '02 TL-S and almost traded it for an '04 or '05 TL. We've also owned two MDXs (old '01 and currently an '04); I have always viewed Acura as a "best-bang-for-the-buck" manufacturer. I have test driven the TL several times and have gotten them as loaner cars during MDX servicing. I've also test driven the RL several times and am currrently debating a new car purchase - either an RL or an M35."
Did you drive the M35 and what do you think of it today compared to the RL?
Thats what I said.
Because my Acura dealer shafted me on my '02 TL-S trade-in for an '04 TL I ended up getting an '04 FX35 last September. I took the MDX in for an oil change in December and saw the RL for the first time and was instantly smitten (I should point out that I somewhat regret not getting another sedan). This past March I was again at the dealership getting an MDX oil change and had the opportunity to talk to my sales rep (cautiously after the TL fiasco); he informed me that they were very disappointed in RL sales and that he could get me a great price. I must say that I was "completely" sold on the RL at that point.
Thus began research and test drives that continues to this day. One can not help but read about the M-class while researching the RL. I was particularly struck by the M's performance in virtally all professional reviews. I first saw the M in late March when I took the FX in for an oil change. My first impression, although positive, was that it fell short of the RL. The more I read and researched the more the pendulum began to shift. I must say that the more I sit in and drive the RL the less impressed I am (it is not nearly as quiet as I had hoped for); it has several QC issues, an ignition switch design flaw, and integral technology that I can do without. And my biggest issue is that it is way overpriced (its not a "best-bang-for-the-buck" Acura like my MDX is).
I have had the RL and the M35 Sport on several test drives and overall I rate them equal as far as ride, handling and noise goes. I want to do more test drives in both as well as the M35 non-sport. As I said first impressions are more or less equal as far a driving - but I want to nit-pick each on subsequant test drives.
Even though I haven't bought yet, I am strongly leaning toward avoiding an '05 RL period. If I wait until the fall (M35 prices should be better by then), I'll take a look at the '06 RL. But if I had to buy today I'd get the M35.
No, you said NavTraffic and as far as I can tell, there's no relationship between NavTraffic and AcuraLink.
Guess I have to quote myself
Anyone with XM radio can subscribe to Traffic Radio (hence non-unique) - Acura (thru its AcuraLink technology) has tied it to their Navigation system (which is unique).
Since your arguments keep morphing, it's no wonder you don't understand my disagreement with you. You've gone from complaining about all the "service" fees on the RL to arguing that nothing the RL has, except SH-AWD, is unique. Each time I respond, you disagree by arguing about a different point. So, to quote you - let's just agree to disagree (though about what, I'm not quite sure).
I posted a message five minutes ago and it did not appear!
Is that unusual? Can it be resurrected?
Acuraphile
I'm sorry that happened to you.
George
My quad surgery has healed sufficiently to enable me to drive for short periods. Having been away from the RL for three months, I had forgotten the one reservation I had about my purchase: the jittery, hyper-active suspension. I was soon reminded of it this past weekend when my wife drove us to our place in Amagansett, roughly 100 miles, to the eastern end of Long Island. Having been enthralled with the RL and all of its componenets, I was distraught by the consistent jouncing which was even evident on fairly smooth roads.
Yesterday, before having written the post that vanished mysteriously, I had gone to a dealer in Valley Stream and test drove an RL demo, with the same result. I believe that this characteristic had been the subject of some discussion when the first deliveries took place. At that time, I was so thrilled with the RL that my critical faculties must have gone to sleep, although I did permit some dissatisfaction to filter through my delight, and then let it slip away while I enjoyed the electronics and great engine performance. Now, however, after our 200 mile round trip, having been shaken to and fro, I have deep, deep regrets.With tax and extras, this purchase came to $54K and I'd be hard pressed to get $45K for it now as I know the car is being generously discounted. So, I'll stick with it for a year or two as it's not intolerable - just uncomfortable.Bottom line: I didn't drive my '96 RL for nine years, waiting, for a disappointment such as this.
Is anyone out there supressing dissatisfaction with the problem, as I've described it? Our Acura loyalty sometimes takes on the role of an anodyne and seals our lips.
The RL's ride is definitely a little rougher than I'd like, though I wouldn't describe it anything like you did. However, I do like the sporty handling and I'm not sure you can have both a smooth ride and sporty handling. If I had to pick between the two, I'd pick sporty handling.
I know what you are saying about acura's suspension as they have been mooving toward stiffer suspension on all their models. I believe they are moving their design criteria toward more performance and hence a stiffer ride goes with it. Having said that though, I like the suspension in my 2005 RL, but I did get rid of my 2004 TL (traded it in on my 2005 RL) because it was too stiff to suite my tastes. The 2004/2005 TL almost jars your teeth when you hit a bump, by contrast I feel the 2005 RL is really smooth!! Yes it is firm, but not really too stiff.
Just my humble opinion.
dennis :confuse:
Absolutely not true and I don't get why you'd make that claim :confuse: I have always admitted TWO technologies that are unique to the RL; SH-AWD and AcuraLinked NavTraffic (how can you deny that ???). Now I have questioned the value of the AcuraLinked NavTraffic. But I do thank you for clarifying that it is these TWO and only these TWO technologies that the RL can claim to uniquely offer something the competition cannot.
BMW seems to have a recipe for this.
Its no secret that after an earlier infatuation with the RL my feelings are leaning toward the M35 now. I still like some things about the RL; however I think the car is way overpriced to begin with. Its a nice car and all, but SH-AWD and AcuraLinked NavTraffic alone are NOT worth the premium in my opinion. Also I too was somewhat surprised that the ride was not smoother and quiter on my test drives.
But more to the point; I took my MDX in for an oil change this morning and there were 29 RLs on the dealer's lot (6 out front, 1 in the showroom, and 22 out back). I know for a fact that I can buy a brand new one for Invoice or less; I doubt very seriously you could get anywhere near $45K on a trade :sick: Good luck. Sterling McCall in Houston had a used (8000 miles) RL on the lot last week they offered me for $44K (includes extended warranty and 18" wheels).
I am interested in either a 2002 TL Type S or 2002 RL.
I know these are two different cars. I want the power of the Type S but have heard a lot of issues with the transmission. I am looking at the RL for the reliability. I would rather go for the TL Type S (more fun to drive) but would only go to RL for reliability.
Any advise.
thanks
Surprisingly crisp inquiry, tayl.
Yes, but I was transported flat on my back on the rear seat, encased in a three foot steel brace that couldn't get by the front passenger door frame - I wasn't critiquing the ride during those moments.
Do you feel betrayed?
To some extent, we don't have the best roads in some parts of the U.S., and I suppose washboard surfaces and suspension joints on some byways can cause a bit more of a jittery ride.
There have been a handful of complaints on these boards about the RL's suspension tuning being too stiff. Can I have a show of hands from those folks...are they over/under 60 yrs old? Compared to the previous RL, the current model definitely has a tighter suspension. The new RL is nothing like the prior model, that much is for sure.
A few complaints are also being registered regarding the touring suspension on the new Avalon. I think the older generation that got used to the Buick-esque ride of the previous Avalon was a bit shocked by the tighter touring version that is available on the new '06 Avalon.
Many of us like our cars to ride like the Barcoloungers in the family room. And the more cupholders the better.
Personally, I'd rather drive and feel the road. I think the RL is just right in this regard.
If you are at all uncomfortable with the ride (which is tight though supple in my opinion), I strongly urge you to look into 18" Pirelli's. You will not be disappointed.
Of course not; only surprised.
I think the standard suspension has a bit too much roll and is a little soft but bearable from a handling performance point of view. It seems to me it is more of a drivers car than the previous RL was and I believe that was a conscious decision on their part. In the road test in Road and Track they refer to a meeting with an Acura representative who comes out and says they had moved too far into the luxury/soft ride area.
I also looked at the Infiniti M35x and BMW 530Xi but thought the Acura was the best combination of ride and performance at the price. I got a nice discount off sticker and am very happy with the car so far.
The XM NavTraffic system launched in October 2004 as a standard feature on the all-new 2005 Acura RL with resounding success to revolutionize in-car GPS navigation systems. In January 2005, General Motors added XM NavTraffic to the 2005 Cadillac CTS as a feature included on all vehicles equipped with their optional DVD-based navigation system. For the aftermarket, Pioneer has launched the AVIC-N2 and AVIC-D1 as the first aftermarket product supporting the XM NavTraffic capability. Other car company and aftermarket applications are expected in the near future.
Thanks for your comments, jj. I celebrated my 80th birthday last week. At age 72, I sold my 750 Honda, my third and last bike. I mention this so there are no misconceptions about my driving preferences - (I never had a Buick "Park Avenue" mentality!) In 1944, I flew PT-13's and had a few hours in an AT-6. Ten years ago, I was having fun, accompanied by an instructor, flying 172s on weekends out at Republic Airport.You're corrrect: I do love my RL; I just wish that I was less tuned in to the active ride. I love it's sportiness. so perhaps it's my age that's expressing its desire to be accommodated! LOL!
In retrospect, I guess I wasn't ragging on the RL's suspension, after all - maybe the years were just saying "Hello!" I'm sure you dig my meaning.
I'm still a card-carrying RL-er.
Warm regards,
George.
Well, you've finally done it - you've convinced me the RL is not at all unique and therefore, a totally terrible car. By the way, does anyone want to buy a slightly used 2005 RL? It's not at all unique in any way, except SH-AWD, but it's not a bad car overall. Actually, I think you'd like it - it's a dream to drive, it has a fantastic sound system, the best nav system of any car around, and quite a few nice gadgets, including keyless entry (though quite a few of us RL owners haven't quite got the hang of this here newfangled gadget). Hey wait just a gosh darned minute, I just reread my last sentence - it really is a pretty nice car, despite what a few naysayers on here have to say. I think I'll keep it.
:confuse:
George, I was thinking it, but wasn't going to bring it up. (Far be it for me to meddle with a man whom I know comes from Tom Brokaw's "The Greatest Generation").
Incidently with all due respect, around here motorcycles that aren't manufactured in Hog Heaven (Milwaukee) just don't get a lot of respect. (But, between you, me, and the gatepost the Honda is a better bike.) There is something very special about the Harley mystique though, not only here but across the country and in many parts of the world.
PS You'll be ready to take on the RL suspension in no time...but there is no hurry. I am reminded of a long recovery from terrible lower back spinal stenosis and excruciating left leg sciatica and many sleepless nights. (and...thoughts of never playing my sport again) A Vince Lombardi quote from the Glory Years comes to mind...."Fatigue makes cowards of us all!" ... Heck, at age 80 I probably would want to be accomodated with massages and mint juleps.
jjacura:
You were right on target, my man! We just arrived out east a few minutes ago - Amagansett, L.I. territory. The ride was fine. Anyhow, it's nice having an advocate such as yourself. Thanks.
George
Dude, I like the RL. I love Acura's Navi - I am on my third one! (Traded an '01 MDX for an '04 MDX that we still have; used to own an '02 TL-S). However, I will give any $45K+ car a very hard and critical scrutiny and evaluate ALL of its pro, cons, unique features, shortcomings, missing features, etc!!!!!!!!! The RL is on my short list.
It is my hope that I can use Edmunds as a research tool to FULLY evaluate the cars on my list, not simply touting the positives, while glossing over the negative. :shades:
Well if a negative is true...bring it on. If it's not true......what do you think? :sick:
"Well, I hit him hard right between the eyes
And he went down, but to my surprise,
He come up with a knife and cut off a piece of my ear.
But I busted a chair right across his teeth
And we crashed through the wall and into the street
Kicking and a' gouging in the mud and the blood and the beer_
_Johnny Cash "A Boy Named Sue" 1969
Of those that have switched out of the OEM tires and have selected high (or ultra high) performance all season tires such as Michelin Pilot Sport A/S or Pirelli Zero Nero A/S, how have you liked the change and any regrets in doing so? Thanks
I would not recommend going to 18" wheels unless you want a stiffer ride. The larger wheel recuires a lower profile tire (shorter tire sidewall), and thus you end up with a stiffer ride but with better handling. Be careful, you need to maintain the 26.8" overall outside diameter of the tire no matter what size wheels you put on in order to maintain the functionality of the electronic systems that control the ShAWD and electronic traction control.
dennis
I agree with you that buying new 17" tires immediately was a hard decision, but my logic in the beginning centered around the better control issue in the winter/snow driving conditions. I know the car has ShAWD, and traction control,but steering traction and stopping is still limited by the tires ability to grip in wet and snow conditions. Not to mention I already spent almost 50K on the car, so I went ahead.
The Pilot Sport tires have a customer rating of 7.2 out of a possible 10 for capability in the snow, and the OEM HX MXM4's only rate 4.4. So I looked at it as though the diminished risk of an accident in winter would be worth it. Also the wet traction and resistance to hydroplaning numbers on the Pilot Sport A/S is 8.7 vs 5.8. So the other improvements (quiter, smoother ride, improved handling) for me were just icing on the cake. Plus I sold my old tires for $400
Others such as Post # 6505 above seem to have good experiences with the 18" wheel in terms of ride and noise quality. I think the ride is just about right with it being a bit stiff to enable good corner/handling but not so stiff as to be uncomfortable or unpleasant, at least for me. Others I know may differ.
I am certainly mindful of the need to have the wheel/tire combo fit with the functionality of the RL and not inadvertantly diminish any of its great characteristics. I am trying to even further enhance the handling without materially reducing any other function. Many seem to swear by the Pirelli Zero Nero so that is one of my motivators in considering the 18" size. I have only read good things too about the Pilot Sport a/s which is available in the 17" size. Decisions, decisions. Keep those opinions coming as they are very helpful.