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Acura RL



  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    I rarely see stripped BMWs and MBs on the other hand. That has to be a reason why 325 handily outsells 330 since people can afford more luxury features that way than otherwise. In case of 5-series, 525 and 530 split about evenly.

    That said, it could have been possible for Acura to offer NAV as a part a package. With a base of about $46K, I'm not sure though, how much difference $3K would make in this price class. In a $20K or less price class, that could count as substantial money, but not in this class.
  • legendmanlegendman Posts: 362
    >That said, it could have been possible for Acura to offer NAV as a part a package. With a base of about $46K, I'm not sure though, how much difference $3K would make in this price class.<

    Right. And the main thing is it wouldn't make sense for Acura to produce two versions of the car with only the inclusion of a NAV system making the difference. Firstly, as others have noted, most people want the car loaded with all the latest amentities.

    Secondly, there is the question of carrying dual SKUs; in other words, a parallel inventory. The cost to make them and keep the inventory up for both is simply not economical for the manufacturer; nor does it help the dealer who has cars on the lot that some people won't buy only because one option is missing. It's easier to stock one model and deal on price.

    I think that this is one of the reasons that Honda and Acura have always offered a relatively limited range of color choices. The resultant cost savings is presumably what enables Acura to load the car with features at a reasonable price. More cars that are ready to sell, as opposed to cars that "are coming", means fewer lost sales.

    Personally, this topic of accessories and options is something that always put me off BMW and MB.
  • monet5monet5 Posts: 32
    aclc - Sorry. Can't help with the wheel locks. I've never owned those before.
  • ml500ml500 Posts: 1
    I have been reading the various posts about the new RL's price. I am currently driving an MB ML500 and am considering a new car - the RL is one option. It looks like a nice car but I feel that the price is a bit high - maybe not for the car itself but rather for the car to compete with the other vehicles in this segment of luxury vehicles. I am in Canada and the MSRP here is $69,500.00 which is around the MB E320 or the BMW 5 series price range. The issue that no one has addressed here is that most people at this price range LEASE their vehicles. Acura has relatively speaking low residual rates. It is my understanding that the new RL's 36-month residual will be around 52%. When one compares this to MB's residuals (61-62% for a 36-month lease, depending on mileage) and BMW at the same range, the monthly payment on an RL is going to be significantly higher than these two other vehicles. Now, say what you will but driving a car with three pointed star on the hood attracts more attention than any Acura (and I have driven both). If you are reading this message then you care about what you drive as much as I do. I personally like the way the MB vehicles drive but that is a matter of personal preference. I will not prejudge the RL and I am waiting to test drive one. Having said that, the RL will have to be SIGNIFICANTLY better than the MB or BMW for me to pay a much higher monthly payment for it.
  • shotgunshotgun Posts: 184
    Legendman - Thanks for taking the time to do that color analysis/impression for me. The colors have me perplexed but your feedback helped a lot. I'm handicapped when it comes to colors since I'm #1 on an out-of-town dealers list to get an 05 RL (The local dealer pissed me off and I prefer not to do business with him) and I'll have to make a decision quickly to get my choice of colors without the benefit of actually seeing the real thing beforehand...
  • cericceric Posts: 1,092
    Ceric - I'm getting conflicting reports on what the "Lakeshore Silver" looks like. Some say it's greenish silver, other claim it's blueish, yet others point to pictures where it looks medium blue almost like denim.

    This Meteor silver has a tint of green and blue in it. It depends on your eyes and the lighting. Honda has this color in many models, Odyssey, Pilot. My BMW has a very similar color (which BMW called Glacier green in 1998). It remains to be seen whether the one offered by Acura is really more blue-ish. You have to see it in person to decide.

    On another front, all backview cameras come with color -coded lines to indicate how close you are to objects. They work better than ultrasound sensors. I have ultrasound sensors in my Odyssey. It only works when objects are within 5ft or less. You must move slowly for it to response (with beeps).

    There is a picture in the brochure illustrating the structure of RL. There are two large cross members behind the rear seats. That would explain why there isn't a fold-down rear seat. They must be key parts of structure integrity.

    BTW, the 18" wheel looks very nice (standard is 17" with 5 spokes). It has 10 spokes but every pair of spokes are formed together so it looks like 5-spokes. This is very much like the M3 wheel of BMW. Those accessories are going to add up very quickly to the MSRP price.

    5-10 years ago, no one would dare to mention Lexus together with BMW and MB. Now people are saying Acura can't be in the same league as MB, BMW, and LEXUS. Don't be fooled by the logo. German cars are really behind in electronics. Cost-cutting forces them to use lower-level parts (plastic radiator, anyone?) to compete with the Japanese and the rising domestic name-brands like Cadillac. The trend is getting worse not better. Just look at the sales numbers of Lexus, Acura versus BMW and MB. Look at Acura's advancement in electronics. Not even Lexus can compete with that. Let's see if Lexus can offer the same level of contents in their new GS.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    "Intereactive Showroom" on RL at Acura's website is worth a look (but only if you have DSL/Broadband).
  • kenw1kenw1 Posts: 30
    Thanks saedave. I have looked at the Subaru Outback, but the interior does not have any wood trim (and my wife wants wood trim).
  • legendmanlegendman Posts: 362
    Side impact crash testing was in the news today. Does any one have any data on the 2005 RL? If not, when will that come out?

    What do we know about the crash tests for the 2004 RL model year?

    How do Acura's typically fare?
  • >>What do we know about the crash tests for the 2004 RL model year?

    From an AP article this morning:

    Both the 2005 Mitsubishi Galant and the 2004 Saab 9-3 earned the institute's highest rating, along with the 2004 Lexus ES 330 and the 2004 Acura TL.

    I would expect the RL to be at least as good as the TL.
  • cericceric Posts: 1,092
    RL, being the first Acura vehicle to employ ACE, should do very well in crash test. On top of that RL use extensively the high tensile steel (80 grade) in vital structure.

    However, the standard crash test does not show the full strength of ACE. ACE is specially designed when RL is in a head-on crash with a even larger vehicle like the Hummer. Crash tests against a fixed wall (full frontal or offset) only demonstrate the result of crashing against a vehicle of equal weight and size. A small vehicle has an excellent rating probably still won't do very well in real world.
  • Is remote start available as an option, or might it interfere somehow with the keyless process?
    Would appreciate knowing.
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Posts: 1,289

    I do not believe a remote start option is available from the factory or even made by Honda/Acura as a dealer installed option/accessory.
  • I, like ceric, am a BMW owner ('97 528i and '01 525iT) who will not buy another. I haven't had unreliable vehicles, but am very unhappy with the styling direction and iDrive technology. I frankly like the styling of the new RL--if it were better looking the demand would be even greater and the selling price higher. By spring, when the new Lexus GS comes out in 4WD you should be able to get a discounted RL, but the Lexus will be in very short supply (it is a really good looking car). So here's to bland styling!
  • Styling has never been Honda's forte (except for current gen TL), but hopefully other aspects of the car (RL) make up for that deficit. As for the GS, I think its design is a bold step for Lexus and may be representative of their future styling direction. Looks are subjective, but I believe that Infiniti's new M is the best looker of the bunch (RL, M, GS).
  • I'm not too excited about the GS new design, especially the "hatchback" look rear end! ;-)

    As for the M, the exterior is ok but the interior is not appealing IMO. I think the RL is on top, with its streamlined style and considering all the features within the price range.
  • mg808mg808 Posts: 22
    I sold my BMW (Best car I owned) but with more visits to the dealer than the dentist got me back into car buying mode. From a price point, the RL is perfect. All the new 2005 AWD sedan models are up to $5K more. I built a M35 AWD on Infinti's site and its $55K, loaded. Nicely equipped A6 is $52K, GS will be $50K+ easily. I think the RL is best car for the money. On another note, My last visit to the BMW dealer, the salesman was really pushing a loaded 2004 525i for $49,990 MSRP. I told him, I can't have 184HP in a sedan that can't beat a Toyota Prius off the line. He told me its a BMW, nuff said.
  • rroyce10rroyce10 Posts: 9,359
    ..**I rarely see stripped BMWs and MBs on the other hand.** ..

                  You won't see many base MB's rolling around, but you will see bunches of base Bimmers if your looking close ... lots of people will purchase a strippy "3" series or order a "5" to get the BMW logo, thats just ego .. the problem is trying to unload those dudes at trade time and on the retail market they are colder than a January day in Minnesota ..

                 It's a good idea to keep the nav systems as a single option, only 30% of the buyers "really" have a need for them after the first 2/3 months, and the resale on Nav systems is only around $500ish at trade time ... what price glory.?

  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Posts: 1,289
    A Lexus GS for $50K+?

    A current GS300 with NAV, HIDs, mark levinson is only about $46K. I doubt a loaded GS300 for '06 will go far beyond $50K.
  • >> It's a good idea to keep the nav systems as a single option, only 30% of the buyers "really" have a need for them after the first 2/3 months, and the resale on Nav systems is only around $500ish at trade time ... what price glory.?

    I suspect that may change, however. Every friend who's ever ridden in my RL with Navi has said they won't buy another car without it. I only truly need mine about once or twice a month, but when I need it, I REALLY need it!
  • . . .virtues.

    Two "options" that are MUST haves are Sat Nav and "rear" parking assistance radar, sonar or whatever makes them work.

    My Audi proclivity is well known to anyone who has been participating in edmunds for any length of time. And, many folks know that with the exception of the A8, Audis have had navigation for years and it has been dubbed here in the US "nav lite" because it has arrows and voice prompts but no full color, high-zoot, Acura - like moving map.

    I use the nav system every week, the park sensors EVERY day and they both are important systems that I cannot imagine being without.

    It is my opinion, supported somewhat by my "Audi Sales Rep Buddies" that sat nav sells cars, new or used -- and although TODAY accurate ($500+ trade in value) -- sat nav is becoming "the" must have feature on even the least expensive cars (which means for Audi ~$30K) and a requested feature on CPO'd models.

    My guess, clearing up daily, is that Sat Radio is becoming a very desirable feature too. Now, apparently, On*star (but Acura may change this) not so much so, but even that -- telematics -- is growing (slowly) in popularity.

    This Acura is perhaps only a little bit ahead of its time -- as it does seem to contain all, or most of, the "virtues" that were once "vices. . . ."
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    I&#146;m not sure about M. Infiniti seems to have discovered that G35 succeeded and was praised for its styling (in coupe form). As a result, now every Infiniti must carry the look. This can make things boring, and confusing. It is good to carry a family resemblance, but making cars look identical across the range is not a good idea, IMO. For that reason, I have issues with Mercedes styling approach to C-Class thru S-Class. There is not much else besides size differentiation. In case of BMW and Acura, there is family resemblance, but the styling elements are different.

    The Lexus GS will probably look different on the road than most cars and to many that can be a good thing. Except for the bloated appearance (same issues and lines as Nissan Maxima), I actually like it.

    But as an overall package, with pretty good (subtle) styling to boot, RL wins it so far. It would be nice to be able to negotiate on the price someday (near invoice, which may be about $44,500).
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    Luxury cars aren&#146;t about needs, they are about wants. I&#146;m not sure if $2K premium on a $47K sedan holds any meaning. So, it doesn&#146;t hurt to have the luxury of Navigation system since you can. And Acura&#146;s system is very nice, probably the best around.

    I would love to own an RL (I have never leased a car), but as of now, TSX and TL are on top of my list. In any case, I will be getting navigation system.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    I have built Lexus GS300 with stuff here at Edmunds, and it topped out at $47K. AWD may add another $2K-3K to the price, so that could put it in the vicinity of $50K, comparably equipped to the RL. This assumes no price increase or decrease from 2005 model.
  • cericceric Posts: 1,092
    And, you'll get a 245hp 3.0L V6 for that kind of money. I am sure it would be weighing about at least 3800lb with AWD added. It will run in about 7.5 to 8.0 sec 0-60. Any Honda Accord V6 can beat it easily.

    In my point of view, a luxury sports sedan needs to have respectable performance (not necessarily the fastest, but respectable). On top of that, you add luxury for enjoyment and comfort. An enduring look to your eyes is essential since every time you take a glance at it, it reminds you of the amount of money you spent on it, 50 large.
  • legendmanlegendman Posts: 362
    >It would be nice to be able to negotiate on the price someday (near invoice, which may be about $44,500)<

    Would you or anyone care to hazard a guess as to when that will be?

    Also, is it reasonable to assume that if the 2005 RL becomes 'Motor Trend Car of the Year' that RL's price will hold up even longer?
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    Something different brewing for the European market? Click here to see a picture. The Autoexpress preview makes no mention of IMA, but under the hood IMA shows up (everything else about the shroud is identical to the RL).

    It couldn&#146;t be Accord Hybrid, because under the hood the look is quite different.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    Definitely sometime in the future. From what I have read, Acura is targeting sales of 1000 units/month for first six months, and bump it up to 1500 units/month over the following six.

    Demand and supply will dictate the negotiation aspects, as it would in any car. The RL looks like a good value at MSRP. Anything off it, will make it unbeatable.
  • ksomanksoman Posts: 593
    no car is good at msrp. period.

    Saturn is not the unique pricing structure in the world. There are several countries where you don't have to haggle over price. They quote a price, that just doesn't change dealer to dealer. What draws people to one dealer against another is the people & quality of service. Of course, most other countries have densely packed urban populations unlike the US suburban population.... anyway, my point is, given the pricing structure of cars in the US, no car is worthy of its MSRP in the long run. If cars like the TL & MDX have kept themselves at MSRP for considerable time, its just short term good luck for the dealers.

    my 2 cents
  • ditto ksso,

    I will never buy a vehicle at MSRP! Even though the car is a good value at that price. I can't wait to test drive it and see whether it will be better than the competition (A6, 530i, E320) before I buy.
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