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Acura RL

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Comments

  • varmintvarmint Posts: 6,326
    Actually, Cadillac's quality has improved in recent years. It's the only GM brand to make significant strides. Long term reliability is still unproven, but initial quality is pretty good (of course, the same is true of Hyundai).

    "Sure, the RL might compare well to BMW/MB/Audi 6 cyl models, but people who can afford a V-8 will not settle for a V-6." - Chavis

    Both of them are welcome to do so.

    "However, if I'm gonna spend $50-55k, the car better have a V-8." - Chavis

    Which is why Acura has the target price for the new RL set below $50K. Of course, at $50K and even higher, brands like MB and BMW are still expecting you to buy the six cylinder model. You have to go even higher to get similar equipment and that V8.

    Torque and Weight

    I see quite a few posts about torque, but very few regarding weight. Sure a V8 can crank out more torque than a V6. But most of the cars using V8s NEED that torque to haul their bulk down the road. The RL is engineered with aluminum subframes and carbon fiber drivetrain parts to minimize weight.

    I'm willing to bet that Acura hasn't released torque and weight figures because they don't want the competition bench marking their performance at the last minute.
  • rctennis3811rctennis3811 Posts: 1,031
    Well chavis, don't buy the car is all I can say. For those who don't want a V8 in a luxury car, here's another option for them.

    BTW, for those of us looking for a full-size V6 luxury sedan, the RL seems to be a winner. 300HP is ahead of the M35's 270+ and STS' 255.
  • jrock65jrock65 Posts: 1,371
    "Winner" so far in hp among V6 sedans in its class.

    We'll see how it actually performs and drives on the road.

    Personally, I don't think a 300hp/270 torque (estimated) RL with SH-AWD will necessarily accelerate or handle better than a 280hp/270 torque (estimated) M35 with active rear-suspension.
  • varmintvarmint Posts: 6,326
    Dunno. Wasn't the LS430 with 290 ponies able to keep up with the Q45 despite a 30 or 40 hp advantage?

    There's more to acceleration than engine specs (assuming they are even accurate).
  • mariner7mariner7 Posts: 509
    "There's more to acceleration than engine specs (assuming they are even accurate)."

    Europe has a regulation that tested horsepower must be within a certain range of the stated figure.

    One model whose European stated power is less than the American version is 350Z: 276 vs 287. Maybe that's due to emission controls. But I doubt it, because CA supposedly has the toughest emission regulation anywhere.

    So when in doubt, check the hp rating of the European car!
  • chavis10chavis10 Posts: 166
    Tennis, don't worry, I won't. Where Lexus, Infiniti and Audi shine is the fact that you can get a strong V-8 for the price of a BMW/MB 6 cylinder. There is no excuse as to why a 530i or E320 should cost over $50k with only 225/221 hp. For that money you can get into a GS430 or M45/Q45 with real balls. The excuses will never stop for Acura I see. If say Cadillac or Lincoln tried to market this kind of car (RL), I wonder what people would be saying.
    The bottom line is that Honda/Acura needs a V-8 if they want to be taken seriously. The NSX might be fast and sporty and all that, but $90k for a naturally aspirated V-6? Acura can't do what Porsche can. They need a V-8 and they need a proper RWD chassis. I guess one could argue that Audi has been somewhat successful without a true RWD chassis, but I doubt the sales are there in the A6 4.2 or A8L.
    Like I said, I happen to like the RLs styling somewhat and I'm sure it'll have every toy in the book for a reasonable price. However the fact that its basically an enlarged accord with a rear diff will forever loom in my brain. I personally wouldn't mind having a front or AWD luxury car. I think the market will command otherwise. However, V-8 muscle is mandatory.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Here's you, yet another person, screaming that there's no available V8. Didnt I already answer this question six times? LOOK AT THE SALES FIGURES FOR GS430s! Most people do NOT get the V8. Look at the sales figures for the M45. Its a $45K bargain with 340hp V8 muscle. Its a bomb, a sales disaster. Having a V8 doesnt gaurantee anything. Also, most of you seem to forget how tiny Honda is. The fact that they sell millions of Accords seems to make people think their a GM, or somebody like that. They cant pump out cheesy pushrod V8s every 4 seconds. Honda has three, count em, three V6s in their entire inventory, and two or three four cylinders that are shared between LOTS of cars. Do you really think a company like that would spend the money to develop a V8 for ONE model??

    You also seem to forget that the NSX is FIFTEEN years old. 290hp for a V6 15 years ago was pretty damn good. GS430s sell poorly, the M45 and Q45 are bombs, and the A6 4.2.. well its just a piece of crap, so I wont even go there. Honda cant do what Porsche can? How's that? Honda engineers are probably the world's most brilliant. Who else gets 240hp out of a mass market, N\A 3.0L? Who else gets 240hp out of a 2.2L N\A four cylinder? When they finally get around to updating the NSX, your going to be going "gee, 360hp out of a 3.5L V6, thats such crap. Wheres the V8?"
  • 14871487 Posts: 2,407
    IF you prefer Acura to CAdillac, or any other brand that is your perrogative, but that doesn't make any made up assertions about Cadillac true.

    First of all, most Cadillac models, except maybe the Deville which is four years old, dont even come with cash incentives. Even if they did Cadillac's on average would transact for far more than the average Acura. Acura sells three cars for $33K or less, no other luxury manufacturer sells that many vehicles in that price range. In addition, we all know that Acura/Honda dont believe in national rebate programs, they let dealers do the dirty work on their own. I have a friend that got NAvigation on her TSX for free as an incentive. Anyone who pays above sticker price for a Acura in today's competitive marketplace is either stupid or impatient. Get out of fantasy land.

    As for quality, Cadillac (and some other GM brands) are in the top ten in terms of short term and LONG term quality according to JD power surveys. I believe Cadillac typically places third or fourth in 5 year quality.

    Acura makes nice cars, but their vehicle lineup, power and engine options are not on the same level as Cadillac or the other major luxury marques in the US. Th logic that Acura shouldn't offer a V* because most V6/V8 cars are sold without a V8 is ridiculous. If you want to compete against the GS, 5, E and A6 you need to offer a V8. It's not even about acceleration, it's just the prestige associated with 8 cylinders.

    Anyone who thinks Caddy's interiors are equal to that of a Hyundai is smoking something illegal. Even the current Seville and Deville are beyond that standard, not to mention the XLR, '05 STS and even the SRX. Look and quality are not the same, many journalists don't like the style of the CTS/SRX (personally I don't care what they think, its subjective), but rarely have they been called low rent and never have I read anything about poor build quality. I have been in both models and the interior materials are fine.

    "Funny, every single professional review I've seen of a recent Cadillac (including Edmunds) have slammed them for down market interiors."

    Oh well if edmunds says it, then it must be true. They are definitely known for their objectivity and consistency. When a publication gives 9 out of 10 American made vehicles a poor review and then whole heatedly recommends Passats and Jettas with less than average quality I have a tendency to disregard their opinions.
  • 14871487 Posts: 2,407
    The GS has been a flop in general, not just the V8 version. What about the E, STS and 540? Where they flops? Every seville sold had a V8 and it had some pretty good sales years in the past. Your notion than V8 powered cars don't sell it bogus. The M45 and Q45 are ugly and never stood a chance, regardless of what kind of motor they had. Are you suggesting that they would have been better if equipped with a V6? Absolute BS.
  • lovemyclklovemyclk Posts: 351
    1st of all, Honda engineers know a bit about building great cars and powerplants. How the 2 come together in the form of the next RL remains to be seen... looking forward to the enthusiast mags running the RL through its paces.

    As a 2003 BMW 530i (SP,PP,Steptronic,Zenons) "driver", I'm one of those people that appreciates how all the components play together to create the symphony. My guess is that the RL will be a very satisfying piece, but will certainly be lacking in real V8-only grunt for those who desire that characteristic. I'd have loved the 540i, but it did not offer more "BMW-ness" for my dollar. Still wanted the BMW, however, as there are few substitutes - hence the 530.

    Maybe Acura will release a V8 sometime into the model run based upon market reception - who knows? Smart not to do so in the 1st year until they understand how buyers will or will not flock to the showrooms. Remember that AWD adds a weight penalty, so there may be more power coming.

    1st impressions of pic I've seen of the new RL... front end (3/4 & front views) initially looked like the new Pontiac Bonneville... something about the general shape forward of the A-pillars and the headlight housing/cover design. Rear does have the Bangleized effect along the trunk edges like the new 7-Series, but you don't get the bustle-butt impression as with the BMW.

    To me, it's more conservative that the TL, which is a Honda-inspired version of the e39 (IMHO). Still, not an offesive look, but wondering if it will convey the presence that is warranted by $45-50K investment? It's all speculation at this point anyway!

    Interior looks terrific and will most likely be high quality. Nothing will beat an actual comparo by the best in the business, so looking forward to seeing how the new RL will stack up against the A6, 5, E, GS and M.
  • rctennis3811rctennis3811 Posts: 1,031
    Why do some people post in here if you have nothing good to say? I'm not the biggest Cadillac fan yet I don't rant on and on about Cadillac's faults in their forums (atleast, not anymore). C'mon, try ot be positive!
  • pg48477pg48477 Posts: 309
    After reading your post I dont even know what to say, you seems to be all over the map.
    First, rctennis3811 is right this is not a Cadillac forum.

    'Anyone who thinks Caddy's interiors are equal to that of a Hyundai is smoking something illegal.' I don't think it's equal to Hyundai or Kia, I know it and so as many others that can SEE.

    Stop kidding yourself, Cadillac not even close to interior quality and design of Acura vehicles, like new TL and RL. Cadillac spend 20+years doing nothing, thats why they are so behind. With all the finances GM have one can only guess why they don't use it.
    Both Devil and Civil was not a disaster, but they did not sell well.

    Once again, if Acura can produce vehicles for 25K that have more options and better quality than any Cadillac, I say good for Acura. When BMW and Mb charge premium for prestige factor I can understand it, but Cadillac, come on.
    All GM vehicles come with 0% APR 60 month financing, if this is not incentive I don't now what is.
  • chavis10chavis10 Posts: 166
    Let me guess, you're one of those people who is all caught on specific output which has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with performance or economy. Who cares how big the engine is, as long as it produces good results with good economy. First off, nobody said anything about any of those cars being successes. I don't like any of 'em. The point is, they are options and they have V-8s that put to shame any V-6.

    " Honda has three, count em, three V6s in their entire inventory, and two or three four cylinders that are shared between LOTS of cars. Do you really think a company like that would spend the money to develop a V8 for ONE model??"

    Nissan/infiniti did it. Why the hell would a company introduce a V-8 for one car? That is just stupid. The point is a V-8 opens up possibilities for trucks and SUVs. I thought that was obvious, but apparently I was giving too much credit. Acura will never be on the map with the big boys until they have a V-8, it's just that simple. That means no large SUV. That's definitely a market any company would want to be in. You're darn straight I'll be wondering where the V-8 will be in the next NSX. Think about what you just said, 360 hp is good, FOR A V6. It ain't good for the class. Only Porsche can get away with having a 6 in the exotic sports car class. Vette will have 400 standard with a "lowly" pushrod engine 3 times larger than an S2000's, yet returns similiar fuel economy (18/28). Acura will not be able to go any further without a V-8.

    PS, if Acura can do what Porsche does, why hasn't the NSX ever sold and why hasn't it been replaced in 14 years? So much for those brilliant engineers.

    Tennis, you used to always come trash stuff you didn't like so spare me. Anyways, I like the TL and would get it over almost anything in the class if i were in the market. RL is a nice sporty looking car with a thumping 300 horse V-6. Happy now???

    Mowgie, that was the most intelligent post I think I've ever read. Yet another bunch of rhetoric than cannot be substantiated. If you're ready to buy a car that you haven't even in production form, then its true that having money doesn't mean you have brains.
  • chavis10chavis10 Posts: 166
    Where do you guys come up with these claims/statements such as:
    "Once again, if Acura can produce vehicles for 25K that have more options and better quality than any Cadillac, I say good for Acura."

    or:

    "Stop kidding yourself, Cadillac not even close to interior quality and design of Acura vehicles,"

    Based on what? You're kidding yourself. Just about any new vehicle this day and age has acceptable "quality" or materials. What does quality mean anyways. The feel and look of the materials? Or how long they hold up? I believe the Cadillac comments were provoked and 1487 was just responding. Now you're crying, "this isn't a Cadillac topic."

    You people create illusions based on what you like. If you don't like Cadillacs or anything else, that's fine. But don't start making up your own truths about how a luxury car maker's quality is so much worse than anothers. Take VW/Audi for instance. They get praised in the press for their materials, yet I'm under the impression they fall apart soon after you take them home.
  • pg48477pg48477 Posts: 309
    To start Acura sold every single unit of NSX it ever produced with V6 in 14 years and don't forget they charged 90K for it. It was never intended to be a muss production vehicle.

    Lexus have one of the best selling luxury full size SUV with V8 producing 240 HP, less then Acuras MDX with V6. Yes I know V8 has more torque, but it does not move anyway.

     "First off, nobody said anything about any of those cars being successes. I don't like any of 'em. The point is, they are options and they have V-8s that put to shame any V-6. " May be it make sense for you but not to most people here, the point for any manufacturer is to build a successful vehicle, or at least make one to help sell others. This has not been the case for Acura, it had no problems selling it's vehicles without having V8 or a full size car that promotes the brand. If you are shopping for a V6, and not going to buy the car just because it does not come with V8, I don't know what to say.
  • pg48477pg48477 Posts: 309
    "Based on what? You're kidding yourself. Just about any new vehicle this day and age has acceptable "quality" or materials. What does quality mean anyways. The feel and look of the materials? Or how long they hold up? I believe the Cadillac comments were provoked and 1487 was just responding. Now you're crying, "this isn't a Cadillac topic." "
    Based on what you just said: The feel and looks of the materials and how long they hold up.

    "Just about any new vehicle this day and age has acceptable "quality" or materials" You right again, just about any vehicle, except Acura Lexus MB and Audi.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    I love these clever little takes on my name, it reminds me of games I used to play on the school yard.

    "Anyone who pays above sticker price for a Acura in today's competitive marketplace is either stupid or impatient". I guess you werent at an Acura dealership when the MDX hit. There was a YEAR LONG waiting list to get your hands on one. The dealer told me they had several offers to buy the test drive mule, at as much as $5,000 above msrp. When's the last time Cadillac had a year long wait for anything?

    I haven't smoked anything illegal since college, and yet I still think the current Deville and Seville have absolute garbage inside for their pricetags, which may partially explain the what, 40% residual after 2 years? I sat inside the new XLR at the NY auto show. For $75K their effort is simply embarrasing. Cheap plastics all over the doors and console, and when I shut the door, it gave the reassuring sound of a '00 Kia Sephia. The $30K ES330 is absolutely light years ahead of the XLR in terms of interior quality.

    If you have such little respect for Edmunds editors and their opinions, why are you even here at all? Its more than obvious that you are a GM till I die zealot, so why even read reviews at all? Nothing (in your mind) can measure up to the all mighty "standard of the world" that sells no cars outside of the US.
  • cericceric Posts: 1,092
    " If you're ready to buy a car that you haven't even in production form, then its true that having money doesn't mean you have brains. "

    Well, this reminds me of all the married people who got married before seeing the "production form" of their spouse. I guess we are all guilty of that, having no brain.
    Amen!
  • pg48477pg48477 Posts: 309
    I owned I few American and foreign vehicles over the years. To mention a few : 88 Buick Park Ave , 93 Camry, 95 Maxima, 93 Legend, 2002 TL. I have good memories of Buick being it's the first car I ever owned. It was a very nice ride and had good pick up. Can you believe the car had leather, moonroof, climate control, ABS and memory seats in 1988? But over the years, American cars stayed at the same level with the same 3.8 engine, making 200HP. I have to tell you though, interior quality went down big time. I also owed few Japanese cars, and I have trust in Acura and Lexus. I would also put a down payment on new RL, without seeing the final version of the vehicle.
  • cericceric Posts: 1,092
    " If you're ready to buy a car that you haven't even in production form, then its true that having money doesn't mean you have brains. "

    Well, this reminds me of all the married people who got married before seeing the "production form" of their spouse. I guess we are all guilty of that, having no brain.
    Amen!
  • venus537venus537 Posts: 1,443
    aren't the only people who think it's a MUST to have a v8 in order for a car to be considered a luxury car the ones with more money than brains?

    unless i'm towing a boat or if the RL weights a lot more than i think it does than the v8 is not required.
  • sphinx99sphinx99 Posts: 776
    "Nissan/infiniti did it. Why the hell would a company introduce a V-8 for one car? That is just stupid. The point is a V-8 opens up possibilities for trucks and SUVs. I thought that was obvious, but apparently I was giving too much credit. Acura will never be on the map with the big boys until they have a V-8, it's just that simple. That means no large SUV. That's definitely a market any company would want to be in. You're darn straight I'll be wondering where the V-8 will be in the next NSX. Think about what you just said, 360 hp is good, FOR A V6. It ain't good for the class. Only Porsche can get away with having a 6 in the exotic sports car class. Vette will have 400 standard with a "lowly" pushrod engine 3 times larger than an S2000's, yet returns similiar fuel economy (18/28). Acura will not be able to go any further without a V-8."

    You know, maybe you should just accept the fact that Acura doesn't want you as a customer? I mean, Honda's general disdain for big, heavy V8-powered trucks is pretty well known. That's their choice, their corporate philosophy, and they've done very well as a company by appealing to the great many of us who don't need nor want V8-powered trucks to drive to work every morning. With all due respect, who are you to demand Honda to tailor its product offerings to you? When was the last time you bought a V8-powered luxury sedan?

    It's nice to see an automaker that pursues a belief system rather than blindly pursuing market share. I mean, anyone can build a V8 but how many people invest in SULEV? I like (and BUY) Honda for those reasons. So do many others. If their desire to stay their course leaves a gap in their product lineup that leaves your heart feeling empty, well, click the little X in the upper right hand corner of this window, get a copy of the classifieds, and go buy a used Camaro. I hear they have V8s, and Chevy has trucks. This should make you very happy. I wish you the greatest of luck with your GS430, S500, 545i, Q45, and/or A8. Meanwhile the rest of us will have to make do with an unprestigious underpowered sedan whose powerplant sadly isn't shared with some trucks :(
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Very well said gentlemen. People are acting like the RL's V6 will be something like the S2000's or Subie WRX's 4s, where you have to drop the clutch (which there wont be one) at 5,000rpm to get any power. 300hp and "only" 260-280lb ft. of torque? Oh no! Thats horrible! How will it move at all? Take a look at the Ford Freestar vs. the Quest or Sienna. The Ford beats them in torque with the 4.2L engine, yet its meager 201hp means it will lose any stop light race. Or look at the M3 vs. the C32 AMG. The M's "down on torque" brilliant 3.2L N\A engine makes less HP and almost 100lb. ft less torque than the Mercedes supercharged 3.2L, and yet.. the M3 will stomp the C32. What happened? I thought power numbers meant everything? How does a 290hp LS430 stomp a 340hp Q45? In that case, an awesome six speed auto, vs. the Qs sluggish piece of garbage. Who makes some of the worlds best transmissions? Why, Honda does.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Just a couple of things that strike me here:

    "To start Acura sold every single unit of NSX it ever produced with V6 in 14 years and don't forget they charged 90K for it. It was never intended to be a muss production vehicle.

    The Acura NSX wasn't meant to be a volume car, true, but the car has been a commercial failure, mainly because it has been around in same form for way too many years, because it was a leader back in 1990. However, there is no way Honda wanted the NSX to be the most invisible car in this class. Nobody even looks at the NSX anymore, and Ferrari/Porsche are about 2 generations in design ahead. Of course they sold every one of them (NSX), they aren't bringing any over in the first place!!! When a Ferrari that costs twice as much outsells your competing product you have a problem. The NSX is not exclusive by choice.

    lexusguy,

    Yes Honda engineers are brilliant, but they aren't the only ones. I think BMW, Mercedes, Toyota, Ferrari, Porsche and others have proven to have just as brilliant a group of engineers. I agree that V8 luxury cars don't sell enough for Honda to go there, but at the end of the day in America the land of the Vee-eight, they need one if for no other reason than bragging rights. Will they miss out on a boatload of sales without it, NO. Will Acura's image remain a little below some of the others luxury car players? Yes. Not going to get into where I think the nameplates place.

    The next NSX will no doubt be a piece of work, but a 360hp V6 (where did you get that number?) isn't going to mean much unless the car is super-light. Think about it the Ferrari 360 Modena came out in 1999 with 400hp and was seen as the car to beat, now Ford, Lamborghini and Porsche have all answered with 550hp, 493hp, and 477hp (GT, Gallardo, 911GT2) respectively. The standard now is 500hp and Honda will be hard pressed to match these cars when not measuring handling. Watch the updated 360 Modena push 480hp+.
    _____________________________________

    One thing is true though; the Q45 and M45 in their current forms wouldn't have sold better with a V6, I6, straight-8 (well maybe) or a V12. The many reasons why this is have been stated by me and others a many times before so no need to do that here.

    chavis10,

    All I can say is go sit in the CTS and then compare it to a TSX or TL, the Cadillac just doesn't feel all of one piece or as well put together as the Acuras. I can't believe you and 1487 are still at this in another topic (and Acura topic no less), and just like I stated in the E-Class topic, the GM rhetoric isn't going to fly here either. Sure some of the rhetoric here is over the top (on both sides), but people know better when things are obvious like build quality.

    M
  • jrock65jrock65 Posts: 1,371
    Is the 3.5 in the RL an upgraded version of the engine in the Pilot/MDX/Odyssey? Or is it a brand new engine?
  • chavis10chavis10 Posts: 166
    Merc, my cousin just recentely purchased a TSX, so I've been in it. What's the big deal. It looks nice, nothing to fancy. Just a bunch of silver plastic all over the place which I guess is the norm. I think the "quality" is exaggerated. Nothing wrong with the interior but nothing that made me say wow, this is a fine quality interior. Secondly, I never said anything about the CTS or its interior being better than anything else. According to you, the "GM rhetoric" won't even fly in a GM topic so you can save your breath.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    GM supporters never get the subjectives or details on anything even when it comes to interiors I guess. Everything looks ok and what not, no difference from one car to the next.

    Oh and the GM rhetoric does fly in the GM topics where everything GM rules...only in that delusional world. Hey, I'm not the one that needs to save my breath, check the title of the thread and then look at your posts, you're the one that could have saved at lot of breath (typing) so far, not me.

    M
  • varmintvarmint Posts: 6,326
    "Let me guess, you're one of those people who is all caught on specific output which has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with performance or economy..."

    Okay. Engine specs don't matter.

    "...The point is, they are options and they have V-8s that put to shame any V-6."

    But the number of cylinders does?!?!
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    . There is no excuse as to why a 530i or E320 should cost over $50k with only 225/221 hp. For that money you can get into a GS430 or M45/Q45 with real balls.

    And yet, GS430, M45 and Q45 are sales failures. Why? V8s are unnecessary for anything but bragging rights. Believe me, RL will do just fine with power that competes with V8s but using a package that rivals the lightest and most compact V6s. Thats smart engineering (and marketing).
  • varmintvarmint Posts: 6,326
    Jrock - No one is quite certain about the engine. It is tranversely mounted (unlike the old RL block) and displaces the same 3.5L as the one in the MDX, Pilot, and Ody. It's an OHC design with variable valve timing, but there's been no mention of VTC or whether the valves are variable on both the intake and exhaust.

    In short, it's *probably* the same block, just retuned. It's certainly not the old one.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    My bet will be on J-series V6 (J35A) on the new RL. And why not? Just retuned to deliver more power and torque. I have a feeling that Acura will rate it 300 HP/260 lb.-ft even if the actual output is slightly higher.

    My prediction, assuming 4000 lb. curb weight, with the automatic transmission, on 0-60 is: 6.5s

    And that would be on par with some V8 powered barges.
  • varmintvarmint Posts: 6,326
    S-Type = 235
    E Class = 221
    BMW 530i = 225
    Audi A6 = 220
    GS300 = 220

    Even when the new GS and M35 are released, the RL V6 will still have 40-80 hp on the rest of the pack. As far as specific output goes, the RL's V6 is actually closer to the 300-340 hp that other marques are getting from the V8s. The RL splits the difference.

    Now, I understand that V8 power gives a line a certain degree of bragging rights. And then there's also the pulling power of a V8. But, as has been posted many times now, 85% of buyers opt for the V6.

    Will this RL humble the entire segment? No probably not. But it will put all the other V6 models on alert. That will boost the image of the Acura brand. Soon, the V8 in other cars will no longer be a "nice option". It'll be a requirement.
  • ksomanksoman Posts: 676
    Wow, I thought the M45 looked better in person than the Acura RL. I personally have never really liked the Infiniti styling, but I thought the M45 looked quite ummm, 45 thousandly, whereas the RL doesnt. Now the interior of the M45 was just not so good, but on the other hand, you couldn't see the interior of the RL at all!!!!
    But all said and done, the RL does look far better in person than the pictures, but it still doesn't look 45 thousandly and it looks smallish for some reason... maybe the lighting at the NY auto show.

    On the by and by, the TL A-Spec concept looked AMAZING! AMMMAAAAAZING!
  • mariner7mariner7 Posts: 509
    M35 will have at least 280 hp now in the G35 coupe. That's an advantage of only 20, which is hardly anything, given than RL probably will be significantly heavier than M35. Why? Because Honda cars are significantly heavier than Nissans, just check out TL and G35.

    A6 3.2 will have 250. E350 will have >260. You can bet GS will have close to 300.
  • varmintvarmint Posts: 6,326
    S2K vs 350Z? I think we could do that for a while. Anyway, the RL makes extensive use of aluminum. Not your typical Honda.

    Last article I read had the new GS V6 producing about 255 hp.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    But will M35 have AWD? I don't expect RL to be lighter than 4000 lb.But so are most luxury barges that are built like a vault.

    Speaking of looks (on paper, ofcourse), I’m not impressed with M35/45. The rear is a heavily disguised rear of last generation Maxima (/I35) with G35 like tail lamp treatment. The front is okay. The rear, unfriendly. To me, a good style is one that is logical as well (and Infiniti/Nissan tries too hard).

    Now, RL isn’t something that is going to be a looker either. But not unlike TSX and TL, it should look more substantial and better in person than on paper.
  • jrock65jrock65 Posts: 1,371
    The current M45 and Q45 are failures for other reasons, not because they have a V8. The LS430 is a V8 and it certainly isn't a failure.

    In most instances, the same car with a smaller engine will outsell the bigger engine option.

    The 325i outsells the 330i four to one, 5000 per month to 1300 per month. Even the 525i outsells the 540i.
  • jrock65jrock65 Posts: 1,371
    M35 will have AWD as an option. But the majority of buyers probably won't get one with AWD.
  • mariner7mariner7 Posts: 509
    varmint, not many people think 350Z and S2K are comparable. If you look at comparable Nissan/Honda models (Alty/Accord, Murano/Pilot, G35/TL), the Nissan is the lighter car. By a couple hundred pounds, at least. Part of reason the Nissan is also judged to be the performance pick.

    RL will make extensive use of aluminum! As though M can't make use of same!
  • steveaccordsteveaccord Posts: 108
    Hi guys, found reading through the posts very entertaining!
    As every respectable preacher let me start renouncing all evil seen in the hot debates of Cadillac vs. the world, v6 vs. v8 etc...
    That done and out of the system:
    About Cadillac, we all know that it went extinct since all buyers died of old, luckily Gm knew enough of voodo to make up importing Opel cars redressed as aspiring Caddy (sorry I was not inspired by Opel car as well when I was growing up in Europe, may be with the exception of the 'Manta'). So now the resurrected marquee is doing better, good for them and for us, we like to know that companies will compete hard for our business. I am still skeptical about ever buying one myself since my interests last just the short time needed to see enough of their styling to know that it is not my cut!
    Back to the RL and the hotly debated lack of V8. Reading the posts from the start of this forum I got loads of very factual info on how many parameters concur to the final result, and I must say I am a believer now!
    I must say that there is hardly anyone wrong on any of this issues. V8 powered vehicles were the fastest growing segment according to market reports, likewise the fastest moving top ten vehicles (Forbes and WSJ) seemed to contain Honda/Accura models week after week after week......(comprising often 2-3 out of ten!) so I guess customers are not penalizing Honda for not pushing amass market carwith a V8. If you do not believe snapshots then read today articles on the press (FT, WSJ) about Honda playing its share in the Chines market!
    These facts bring me to side with Sphinx99 on the joy of seeing a large company pursue its strategic vision and educate consumers at the same time (and seemingly having success in doing just that!)
    As briefly outlined before I believe that the stenghts of Honda/Acura cars most important to many of us are the excellent quality, the safety and the fun to drive cars that offer the right mix of sportiveness and comfort. But then we have a flagship in the RL and I see how so many qualms are voiced over the purported lack of:
    -more powerful engine
    -softer ride characteristics
    -larger size
    etc...
    Well I hope Honda will execute with its usual excellence the delivery of the RL package and we will be given a car that mates enough engine power (and torque distributed across the low. mid and high revs) and a drivetrain that may redefine our concept of a pleasurable drive.
    My wishlist does not have a V8 but that hybrid powertrain discussed in last year post, where an electrical may give you that start kick that is about all I long in a RWD (feeling pushed, rather than pulled) and long, long mileage. Call me visionary but I like to think my kids will breathe air as pure as we can let them inherit and I'll be proud that without denying myself an excellent car I did not deny them a better living (a.k.a. ditch the Hummer!!)
    Finally let me ask, better beg, anyone that has knowledge of Honda lastest powertrains and other techinical engineering, to illuminate the rest of us of what we may see coming, that being the first RL release or the next year one. I forgot, who knows when we will be able to test drive one of these babies?

    P.S. By the way I believe that if Honda will feel happy about a V8 that is enviromentally sensible (variable cylinder usage, hybrid powertrain) we will see one, if not expect them to surprise you with evolved transmission etc that let you forget you are on a FWD/AWD etc! Just for the testosterone challenged and the HP issue, login at www.f1-live.com/en and read about the F1 racing season for the BAR-Honda team! Please do not come back telling me that they use a V10 for F1 racing or such, I meant to say that to be the best you do not need to have the most HP, the meanest tyres etc as much as you need the best mix! (and reliability of course!)
  • steveaccordsteveaccord Posts: 108
    Not to make arguments for their own sake but on the Accord/Alty the divide is only ~ 30 pounds on average but you drop from the absolute 'best pick' in safety ratings (Accord) to an average rating (Altima) (IIHS is the source I am using for weight comparisons and safety ratings). So I'll keep the few extra pounds here!! For the G35 ratings (and weights) are compared with the TSX (IIHS, moderately priced midsize sedans), both vehicles score best picks but the lighter car is the TSX by 190 Lbs!! SoI guess you are left with the Murano/ Pilot comparison bothe score "best pick" for safety but the Pilot is 300 Lbs heavier than the Murano.

    P.S. BTW, the TL would be about 200 Lbs heavier than the G35 as you stated and is top of the 'best pick' list of expensive midsize cars at IHHS and is in the company of MB C class and lexus ES300 not the G35!
  • carguy58carguy58 Posts: 2,303
    I;m tired of the Caddy vs Acura arguments.

    I doo see like other people on this board the back end of the RL has some 97-99 CL elements and its design. I also see some resemblance to the 98-04 Lexus GS on the back end too. As far as Honda bangle-izing the RL the cloest Honda has come to Bangle-izing one of their cars is the 03 Accord Sedan. I don't get why everything is compared to a Bangle design nowadays.

    Finally, I didn't like the way the current TL looked when it first but now I like it alot. The 05 RL from what I have seen in pictures tries to come across as a coupe-like design. A coupe-like design on a 4 door luxury car? I don't know about that. I'll have to see the finished product first.
  • sburke7sburke7 Posts: 37
    It is time for me to buy new tires for my 2002 3.5 rl,,,have gotten 63000 miles on the original mich-pilot-mxm4's,,,any suggestions on switching brands or types of tire?,,,am thinking about mich-pilot sport a/s,,,is this a good tire for this car?,,,I drive on interstates alot here in the se,,,

    Thanks,

    sburke
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    Actually, the rear of the new RL is using Honda’s own styling elements. The crease near the tail lamp that many are pointing to as something similar in BMW 7-series, actually existed in 1996-1998 TL. The tail lamp itself is very similar in shape and size to those from Acura’s past as well. The front is, again, very RL-like, and the side seems to show Acura’s new lineage.
  • nebraskaguynebraskaguy Posts: 341
    None of the pictures I've seen of the RL, including the ones I took Friday, do justice to the rear end. The pictures make it look too much like an Accord. In person, it doesn't at all.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    You are comparing the upcoming RL to, in at least the case for Audi and Lexus, outgoing cars. I dont know of any plans for new engines from Mercedes, BMW, or Jaguar, but I do know that the GS will have an all new 6 somehwere between 240-250hp, a 6-speed auto, and the possibility of an SMG at some point in time. Audi is dumping the current 3.0 and 2.7T from the line up. Their single six offereing will be a new 3.2L "DFI" 6 with around 250hp as well. The M35 will have at least 280hp. My guess is that the new RL will not be able to match the GS430, A6 4.2, the 545i, the E500, or the M45 in pure tire squealing power, but that the S-type with either engine, the E320, and the 525i may suddenly find themselves outmatched.

    The RL should also at the very least be able to stand toe-to-toe with the new GS300, A6 3.2, and 530i, which is something its never been able to do before. If Acura decides to make a more powerful RL available down the line, a hybrid option is significantly more likely to happen than a V8. A hybrid Accord is already in the works, so I have little doubt that Honda HQ has tossed around the possibility of one in the RL. Adding an electric motor would add at least 50hp to the mix, and make up for the V6 torque loss to a V8, as electrics make maximum torque immediately, filling in the bottom end until the V6 starts winding up. Just as the RX400h has enough grunt to take on the ML500, I believe that a hybrid RL could match competitors V8s, while keeping Honda's "clean n' green" image.
  • cericceric Posts: 1,092
    The bangle butt from 7-series to the new 6-series grows softer lines. The RL definitely got influence from the similar design theme, but it is a much better execution. The front end looks fantastic under spot lights in autoshow. However, it does not looks great in some foggy outdoor shots.

    BTW, I am also glad the Cadillac debate is over. Just hope someone don't raise it up again.
  • rctennis3811rctennis3811 Posts: 1,031
    NO DUH SHERLOCK! I said that I used to be that way but I'm not anymore. It's called turning around. BTW, no one's listening to why this car needs a V8. Just letting you know!
  • ksomanksoman Posts: 676
    Having seen the RL in person, I'm not awed, but its still a good looking car. In pictures the butt looks bangalized or like an accord coupe, but in person it is not. I just didn't think the car looked large enough, but it could purely be because of the lighting and croweds around it.
    The front is nicer, but the fake anodized trip around the headlight cylinders looks kinda cookie cheap. Overall it looks nicely executed. All said and done, they still drove the prototype onto the stage, so its not just a concept with no engine or nothing inside kinda deal.

    I personally think there's a good chance of hybrid adding to the SH-AWD and then the SH-AWD trickling down to TL. I personally would love to have a Type A speced out TL (like the display concept) with SH-AWD & hybrid... now that would be even more entertaining to drive.
  • rctennis3811rctennis3811 Posts: 1,031
    I hope they bring out a Type S version of the RL. Give it some mo FLAVA!
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