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Acura RL



  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 11,098
    One more post on the Acura RL vs. Cadillac, or other argumentative posts, and this thread gets locked. This is not the Cadillac vs. Acura discussion. Things got absolutely ridiculous. I don't even have the time to delete all of the argumentative, immature, name-calling posts in the last 100. Behave like adults, or this discussion's a goner.


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  • rctennis3811rctennis3811 Posts: 1,031
    Has the torque rating for the RL been posted yet?
  • 14871487 Posts: 2,407
    wow, a lot of garbage has been posted since I last checked in. In addition I see certain delusional rhetoric prone MB addicts have checked in pretending they like Japanese cars. Things are bound to go downhill from here. The bottom line is that that Acura refused to go the distance with the RL and create a legitimate V8 contender. Acura is trying to sell this car the way American car companies tried for years, a car that's almost as good as the competition but much cheaper than the competition. The car is basically a bigger AWD TL which isnt a bad thing, but its not going to compete against the V8 competition. In years past Acura could sell cars based on price and interiors, but now there is competition on both fronts. We know the STS pricing and I would imagine the new GS and A6 will be priced competitively. What's the point in getting a $50K Acura with a V6 when those other cars will be available with a V8 and more nameplate panache? In addition whatever advantage acura has in the TL at $33K disappears at $50K. I don't even like the interior of the '05 RL, it's too much like a cockpit. They should have stuck with the TL's style. You guys can criticize Cadillac all you want but I dont think Cadillac is targeting Acura in the future, they travel in different circles in terms of prices and vehicle lineup. Acura can do what it wants and the lower end of the luxury market.

    Anyone who waited a year for something as average as an MDX must be a Honda fanatic. There were plenty of other oddly styled luxury utes available at the time, namely the RX300. The MDX is hardly something I'd call an aspirational vehicle. Spare me.
  • chavis10chavis10 Posts: 166
    Type S RL with what engine? An even higher revving V-6? That's the whole point. When your standard V-6 is already pushed as far as it can go with 11:1 compression and the like, how do you offer a high performance version??? Nobody might be listening about a V-8 Tennis but Acura won't be able to do anything better without one.
  • pg48477pg48477 Posts: 309
    People will buy RL over TL for exactly the same reason they buy 530 over 330, E320 over c320, A6 3.0 over A4 3.0 and that is size and more luxurious interior. Now if you like STS interior better than new RL you must have been in coma for about 20 years:)
  • venus537venus537 Posts: 1,443
    post #514 is an illustration that one person's insight is another person's "garbage" or vice versus depending on your point of view.

    who says the 05 RL is competing against V8 luxury cars anyway. in terms of price and performance the 05 RL seems to be right there with high end V6 luxury cars from BMW and MB.

    i just don't understand the logic that if a car has a v8 it's automatically at a higher echelon then a car like the 05 RL. would the olds aurora be considered a superior car to the 05 RL? probably so to the GM faithful.

    there are many people out there who would prefer to have a BMW/MB V6 luxury car over ANY cadillac. maybe the 05 RL will be in that vain. just a matter of personal preferences.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    I'm really getting tired of these V8 or nothing arguments from the American 6.0L OHV driving good 'ole boys who will never step foot on an Acura dealership anyway. Honda wont be putting a V8 in the RL. You arent going to buy an RL, so why do you care so much?

    There ARE alternatives to 8 cylinders. For one, forced induction. I seriously doubt Honda would actually do that, they seem to be as aversed to resorting to turbo or supercharging as BMW is, but if they did decide to turbo the 3.5L, the German uber sedans with their $80K price tags could find themselves in uncomfortable company with a far eastern. The other is hybrid power, which is a definite possibility. Take a look at the RX"400"h. Lexus used the same 400 label for their old 4.0L V8. The new RX is not V8 powered, but with a combined six and electric, it can make 270hp and 35mpg. That sounds like something Honda would be willing to try. Remember the DualNote concept?

    At the time of its introduction, there were not a ton of alternatives to the MDX. There was no FX45, or SRX, or Toureg, or XC90. The X5 was around, but it was $15,000 more than the MDX. The ML320 is a ladder frame, and not in the same catergory, which basically leaves the RX300, which only has 5 seats, and basically zero off road capability. At $35K and change coming fully equiped out of the box, the MDX was a smash hit.
  • cericceric Posts: 1,092
    Sorry if you guys knew this already...

    During an interview with RL product planner, Will Walton, when asked about whether Acura is working on a model above RL, he said (to the effect).."I am not at the liberty to discuss that, but our engineers are working on a number of things. This is an exciting time for Acura ...."

    My guess is that the answer is YES, and the power train would be a combination of 3.5L V6, SH-AWD, IMAs and VCM.
  • boomsamaboomsama Posts: 362
    does anyone know how much the RL will change from now, till production date? Is it mainly just to the interior features? Or will the exterior design change slightly as well?

  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    Based on recent history, Acura “prototypes” change very little going into production form. In this case (RL), the car appears to be even more production ready than the TL prototype was (no “camera side mirrors”). My guess would be that there may be a little cosmetic tweaking including smaller wheels (20 inch to 17 or 18 inch), and may be another feature or two.
  • boomsamaboomsama Posts: 362
    anyone know when delievery is starting in the US? Iknow production starts in september/october this year
  • ksomanksoman Posts: 676
    I'm inclined to bet the wheels will be 18, unless they reduce the size of the brakes in the front wheels, based on what I saw in person. 17" would leave no choice but to clip the disc size and considering the gizmo's and the torque and bias and etc... i dunno about that

  • I kind of agree with you there, Andy.
    I think the RL is no longer competing with the LS430, although the Acura sales people in OKC are wishing it.
    I believe the RL is now competing with the Lexus GS.
    So basically, Acura no longer has a true luxury flagship sedan to compete with the other two Japanese companies--Lexus (LS430) and Infiniti (Q45).
    But actually, the RL never really competed very well with Lexus and Infiniti since Acura never had a V8 engine.

    I wouldn't mind a V6 as long as it was quiet, smooth, and luxurious like the LS430.
    Oh, well.
  • I thought everyone here knew that American brand name cars suck and Japanese brand name cars rule.

    I thought everyone here would rather take a Lexus or Acura over a Caddy or whatever American brand name vehicle on the market.

    If I spend $50K on a vehicle, I want it to be the best and most reliable for my hard earned money, regardless of make and where is it built.

    UNFORTUNATELY, Japanese makes are just better and more reliable.
    So when I buy my $50K vehicle, I make sure it says 100% Japanese parts and assembly.

    I heard that people in Japan care about the products they make and want the whole world to know that Japanese makes are the best now and forever.
    I know that a lot of people in America just care about how much money they make this year, and maybe next year.
  • varmintvarmint Posts: 6,326
    "varmint, not many people think 350Z and S2K are comparable. If you look at comparable Nissan/Honda models (Alty/Accord, Murano/Pilot, G35/TL), the Nissan is the lighter car. By a couple hundred pounds, at least. Part of reason the Nissan is also judged to be the performance pick. - Mariner

    Well... Yes and no. I agree that the S2K and 350Z are designed with very different philosophies. However the two cars are comparable in terms of market shopping. There have been plenty of magazine comparisons with the two.

    As for the other weight comparisons, I'd compare the Max with the TL, not the G35. Nissan still comes out on top, but not by as wide a margin as you've suggested. With the Pilot vs Murano, you've got two very different vehicles. It's like the S2K vs 350Z comparison. In this case, the Pilot is the one based on the bigger design (with 3 rows of seats and 90 cu.ft. of cargo).

    The Accord/Altima comparison makes sense and, in general, I agree that the Nissans probably do have an edge in weight. But it's not as great as your earlier post suggested.

    "RL will make extensive use of aluminum! As though M can't make use of same!" - Mariner

    Again, the extensive use of aluminum is not something that is typical of Honda. Your theory is that the "typical" Honda weighs more than the "typical" Nissan. My point is that this RL is not "typical".

    Which brings me to a question. Is there any reason to believe that the new M cars make extensive use of aluminum or other weight saving materials? Or is that just a "what if" sort of thing?
  • What's the true "practical" advantage of the V8 versus the V6?
  • varmintvarmint Posts: 6,326
    Lexusguy - In some cases, yes, I am comparing the new RL with old-in-the-tooth designs. I believe I mentioned that, myself. But, as noted in prior posts, even the newer designs of those V6 models will only be adding 20-30 hp. The market seems to have determined that 250 hp is the new benchmark for the V6 versions of these cars (just like 225 hp was the standard of the last generation). The only exception appears to be Infiniti with 280 hp and, as far as I can tell, that's just speculation.

    I think when the smoke clears, the RL will still fall between the V6 and V8 models in this class. Yet, with a price in the high 40K range, it will be closer to the V6s in price.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    With all the weight savings, IMO RL will weigh 3900-4000 lb. With luxury cars, come the expectation of equipping them more (accessories add considerable weight, there may be 200 lb. difference between Accord DX and Accord EX), more sound deadening material etc. will do it as well. Hey, Aston Martins tend to weigh not a ton, but two tons for good reasons!
  • varmintvarmint Posts: 6,326
    "What's the true "practical" advantage of the V8 versus the V6?" - Andrewtran71

    Depends on who you ask. Some will say extra torque for launching quickly with little to no effort.

    Some will say that V8 engines are smoother and more refined.

    Others will point to simple bragging rights.

    Frankly, I doubt Acura will ever sink so low as to offer a big block V8. As others have suggested before, it's more likely they'll go hybrid for increased smoothness, better mileage, better emissions, and the more hi-tech image.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    “The RL never really competed very well with Lexus and Infiniti since Acura never had a V8 engine”

    It didn’t have to. And I wish Acura didn’t even think along the lines that they appeared to with the launch of RL replacing the Legend. That said, I can bet nobody wants to compete “well” with Infiniti despite of it having one of the most powerful V8 engines. Last month, even the 8 year old, only 225 HP V6 powered RL handily outsold Q45 and M45 (combined). And at this point, RL is not considered a sales success with the current generation. This is a classic example of V8 NOT NEEDED theory.

    That said, with as much power as RL is going to have, smart buyers will think twice before spending thousands more just to get a V8, and most don’t do it anyway (a reason, GS430 sales are nominal, compared to GS300, the six cylinder GS carrying the chunk of sales. Same for BMW 5-series, and E-Class).
  • varmintvarmint Posts: 6,326
    "Last month, even the 8 year old, only 225 HP V6 powered RL handily outsold Q45 and M45 (combined). And at this point, RL is not considered a sales success with the current generation. This is a classic example of V8 NOT NEEDED theory." - Robertsmx

    I think it's a classic example of V8 NOT THE ONLY CRITERION.

    The Q and M failed for other reasons. There's more to a car than just the engine.
  • cedar33cedar33 Posts: 3
    This week I sent the following to AutoWeek magazine's letters to the editor. I'll bet they won't let any of it see the light of day:

    I knew it was coming, but I sure didn’t expect that your one-sentence mention of the ’05 Acura RL prototype (Bright Lights, Big City in the April 12 issue) would immediately renew your criticism of the company’s decision to shun a V-8 engine. They have stayed loyal to a vision of designing and building vehicles that incorporate leading-edge technology and ultra-reliable quality. It appears that the engineers who gave this prototype life were more interested in bringing to market a revolutionary AWD coupled to a 300-hp engine than simply adding a couple more holes in an engine block to feed some folks’ egos.

    Other than a bunch of crazies who think they can and professional drivers who can, no one drives a 300-hp (or more) car anywhere near the auto’s designed upper limits. The “need” for a V-8 is all about the addictions of ego and status. I applaud Acura for resisting auto magazine pundits’ cries over the past few years to “super size it!” Those in charge at Acura are either too arrogant and/or stupid to listen, or too intelligent. I think it may be the latter.

    After you finish with the ‘05 RL on the track and skidpad, I’ll anticipate again being assaulted by your “a flagship has got to have a V-8” mantra. However, when you feel that urge to melt some tires, you can leave the real world and play with something from the AutoWeek garage with 400, 500, or maybe 600-hp in the form of a V-8, V-10, V-12, or maybe a twin-turbocharged flat-6.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    Thats a good one.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Nicely done. The flat 6 doesnt even need to be turboed, the normally aspirated GT3 will show its taillights to more than a few V8s out there. The 911 doesnt need a big block hunk of iron. Porsche drivers know what I'm talking about :)
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 11,098
    Just a quick welcome to the boards here at Sounds like you're a true enthusiast. Are you looking at the RL, or just annoyed with the review?


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  • 14871487 Posts: 2,407
    actually I have never been in a coma and I am most likely younger than you are. I dont think lots of buttons and metallic trim make a luxury car. Obviously you do. It's not so much that the STS interior looks better, it's that it looks more luxurious while the RL looks more like the cockpit to the Millenium Falcon. If you're into that sort of thing go for it man. I'm no hater. CAdillac and other higher end brands tend to go for a more relaxed looks and use real wood and warmer materials. The TL's interior looks better to me. Maybe they will come to their senses and tone down the RL's interior. It's too G35ish for me.
  • rctennis3811rctennis3811 Posts: 1,031
    I never said a V6 Type S. What makes you assume that?
  • jeff8888jeff8888 Posts: 4
    Styling - for those who say the style of the new rl should be striking, they are missing the essential concept of upmarket design. the upmarket style is typically conservative to attempt to make it both fresh and classy, not radical. something that wears well for long periods. the 7 series is a great example of going for too much at once imho. another take on styling is the degree of difficulty associated with clean, classical lines, new approaches and appealing looks that also have to be darned aerodynamic to boot. then there is the added difficulty of extending styling cues across varied level offerings. MB has done nicely with this concept along the c, e and s lines. bmw does, to me, OK with the z, 5 and much less so, the 7. so for acura, the rl will be dressed in brooks brothers and the tl gets armani. neither will get the "gap".

    the new rl does quite nicely in freshening and stabilizing an appearance. it will not knock your socks off but it will last. 8 years from now people will still compliment the looks of the rl much as they do today with my '96. acura has remade this car precisely in the areas I would have looked to change:

    -5 sp manumatic
    -awd - using the mdx experience and extending to a design aimed for the sedan
    - more powerful yet efficient engine
    - keeping one of the best interiors intact
    - improving handling characteristics without losing the comfort and quiet ride
    - technology/electronics updates

    if I were in the market for a new car today I would definitely look at both the new tl and rl for the same reasons I chose the rl over the 5 and e series on the last round. total cost of ownership. the long term budgetary requirements of maintenance, insurance and all the other variables of buying, keeping then selling a car directed me to the acura. it would likely bring me back again. my hardest decision would now be between the acura's, not their competitors.

    my '96 is not flawless yet even today I still love driving it and no one minds riding in it either. also, my '96 has the ultimate luxury car feature -- it's paid for. that's a luxury I enjoy the most.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    A lot of traditional eurobrand buyers seem to be sharing your sentiments, at least according to recent studies, eurobrand sales are off 7%, while Asian sales are up 10%, and American sales are up 2%. In 1998 Eurobrands were ranked at the top for reliability, now they have fallen to third place. The most interesting figure was that apparently 40% of Volkswagen buyers in the last quarter dumped their cars for an Asian brand. So much for teutonic "bank vault" quality. When Hyundai is beating you on long term reliability, something is wrong.
  • cericceric Posts: 1,092
    Jeff, great post. I share your views mostly, even though I chose BMW-540 over RL in 1998.

    Lexusguy, I wouldn't go as far as bashing "bank vault feeling" due to poor reliability. They are two different things entirely. My BMW '98 540iA still feel like bank vault when closing any doors after 6 years. No vibration or rattling while driving. The paint is still shining like new. However, I had a entirely new cooling system ... now that is a long story to tell here.

    Many buyers veer away from German cars because of rising Euro, in addition to so-so reliability. I would say the former plays a bigger role.

    Lexus typically change much higher on maintenance by replacing tear and wear more frequently on customers' expense. Reliability and free loaner do not come free/cheap. A good indicator of reliability is extended warranty! A 4-year warranty on my 540 costs $2450. On LS400, it costs about $1600. Lexus is better on reliability, but it is not bullet proof.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
     The RL never legitimately competed with the LS430 or LS400.

    I think once everyone realizes that Acura won't be offering a V8 everything will be fine. I used to harp about the lack of a V8 too, but when you really thing about "Honda" you'll come to realize why they aren't going to do a V8. There isn't a strong enough business case and Honda is too small to spend money on an rwd platform and V8 for a single car. No need for a V8 if you're going to do primarily a fwd-based awd car, 300hp is enough.

  • sphinx99sphinx99 Posts: 776
    Besides, America is a four-cylinder and six-cylinder nation. Some posts ago someone claimed that we're a V8 nation. Uh, whatever. I can look down my block and see nothing but I4 and V6 cars. Yeah, every once in a blue moon I'll see a 540i or a S500, but I tell you what: I see a heck of a lot more 528i and S320 sedans. This is the land of four and six cylinder engines, just like the rest of the world. And like the rest of the world, we happen to have a tiny, almost miniscule minority of wealthy people who like V8 luxury and sports cars.

    If we truly were a V8 nation, the Camaro wouldn't have been killed by the plethora of 2L four-cylinder import compacts.

    I see the RL as being pretty darn Honda to me: carving out a niche. The company has done a good job in recent years. First there was a raw high performance roadster, then they had a 2-passenger 70mpg hybrid coupe. They also threw in a boxy roomy cheap 4WD Element, and now there's a 300hp AWD sport sedan. Kudos to them. Let Lexus continue chasing Mercedes until the sun sets. Honda is better served by carving out its own niche, and if the Lexus and Mercedes' of the world are uninterested in competing in those niches, well, more buyers for Acura.

    I think this car's biggest competition will come from the exceptionally roomy G35x sedan.
  • cericceric Posts: 1,092
    Hi, sphinx99:
    I agree with you to the point about G35x. My co-worker has a regular G35. We go out for lunch often in his car. The car is not roomy as you said. It is narrow like most cars designed for Japan and Europe.(width 69" versus 72.6" for RL). Good leg room due to 112" wheelbase.

    I think RL's competition from Infiniti is mainly the new M35-AWD. Similarly priced and sized. AWD, and both 3.5L. Comparable in many aspects.
  • boomsamaboomsama Posts: 362
    I believe Australia is the V8 nation :)
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    That is pretty much true, because based strictly on the sales numbers the only segment where a V8 is a must is the full-size pickup area. Though I still think a VTEC V8 would be absolutely delicious.

  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Actually ceric, I'd say its a mix of both, though German cars costing tens of thousands more than domestic and eastern competiton is hardly something different or new. In 1990 the LS400 threw a cog in the S420 wheel by offering the same (minus the three-pointed-prestige) for a heck of a lot less cash, and that formula continues to this day. What seems strange to me is that I know through personal experience that Lexus IQ and long term reliability have gone way up since 15 years ago, where as Mercedes seems to have made very little improvement whatsoever. My '96 LS was pushing over 150K miles when I traded for a new 430, and I never once had to go to the dealer for anything other than scheduled maintanence. It would be nice if regular maintanence was covered under the duration of the warranty as with Mercedes, but I think if Lexus did that, their shops wouldnt make a dime. Bulletproof, compared to the 740i, hell yes.

    A VTEC V8 would certainly be interesting, though Im not so sure it would be all that much different from Toyota's VVTi or BMW's Double Vanos V8s. VTEC was the original, but the other guys have figured it out.
  • l943973l943973 Posts: 197
    There may not be a Type-S, but rumors are that an A-SPEC will be available. (SEMA)
  • l943973l943973 Posts: 197
    check out Tire-Rack reviews for Acuras. I'm on my second set of Dunlop SP5000s for my RL and I'm happy with them. Quieter than the OEM Michelins. The downside is that they only last about 35k miles but do cost about $81/tire so its cheaper.
  • There are so many different options out there one has to decide on a goal or two and stick to those. You got 63k on the OEM which is great. Sounds like you do not drive your RL too hard. I put Toyo 800's on a Legend and was happy with them. They were quiet and had a long tread life.

    I will likely look at them first when I need to replace the tires on my '00 RL.
  • steveaccordsteveaccord Posts: 108
    It seems as we switched from a specific issues of RL 2005 and engine options to generalities of the V8 powertrains. I am sure that everybody believe his/her opinions to be the right ones but I am appalled (and tired) to hear the story that Honda cannot afford to develop a V8 powertrain. Let me remind who is following that line that just about a month ago Honda released his newly developed 'Jet Engine'. Now if you think that the R&D and all the rest for that feat are spare change (financially, production line, and man power) than I'll rest my case and go feed the pidgeons, but hopefully reason will have you realize that Honda could develop any powertrain they would have desire to put on the market (if it made sense to them!). If and when thay do you can also bet it will be 'state of the art' just as the case for the 'jet engine' that attracted immediate attention from GE (the leader in turbine engines and now partner in the development & marketing of the Honda engine).
    I rest my case!!! lol
  • cericceric Posts: 1,092
    I think no one doubts Honda's capability in engines unless one is ignorant. In 1995, Mugen-Honda already developed outstanding V8, V10 for Formula-1 racing. Shockingly high rpm and hp. It is just a pity that Honda decided not to commercialize V8 for production. Instead, they chose to refine their V6 to a even higher level. I have no problem with that. I'm not fixated to V8.

    Statistics show that Lexus have better reliability by a good margin, but not bullet proof. I would rather refocus on the discussion of new RL.
  • carguy58carguy58 Posts: 2,303
    See that makes me mad when somebody who isn't even going to buy an Acura is saying this and that.

    Whoever said the 05's RL interior is comparable to the G35's is wrong. THe G35's interior is cheap. I don't the 05 RL's interior is cheap.

    As far as Japanese Built vehicles uhh... this is not 1985 anymore(I think when people look at vehicles now they are judging on facts that are 20 years old.) Most of all the Japanese Cars are built in America nowdays or have been since the late 80's.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    The G35 isnt even on the same planet as far as interior materials and fit and finish are concerned. What is kind of embarrasing is I've test driven both a G35 sedan and a Maxima 3.5SL... and I think the Max has the better interior. The G35 is barely enough to keep up with an RSX interior wise, not an RL. The new M45 might be able to compete interior wise, but nothing else Infiniti has can, and thats assuming the production car keeps the concept's hq materials and design. Even still, I'll be happy to see the awful design gone on the current M45, Q45. That has to be one of the worst console designs ever put in a car, and is probably at least part of the reason for the lack of Q, M sales.

    Yes, a good number of Japanese nameplates are built in the USA, and a good number of American nameplates are made in Mexico, and China.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    Honda could build a V12 for RL, if they needed it. There comes the differentiation between needs and wants. Understanding that aspect leads to prioritizing the essentials. There simply isn’t a good enough market for Honda to invest in something that will yield little to no returns.

    I see a point in development of Jet engines, a point in development of ASIMO (humanoid robot), a point in development of electric motors and a point in development of fuel cell powered drive train. These things either help diversify business, or help create a better future.

    Honda would have no trouble investing in development of V8 engines, but what would be the point? To put this in perspective, Honda manufactures a flat-6 engine, but only used in couple of motorcycles. Obviously, the company isn’t shy of venturing into something new (although the first Honda Flat-6 appeared in 1975, I believe).

    Doing something just for bragging is just plain dumb IMO. Honda’s priority in the late 90s was to create a light truck lineup, so the company did focus more in that direction, and rightfully so, given the market division between light trucks and cars. Now that things have stabilized quite a bit, the focus can be on something else.

    I see no need for V8. We can always want RL to have V8, but the ingredients the car really needed seem to have been addressed. It should make an intelligent buyer think twice before tossing extra dollars for the sake of “V8 bragging rights”.
  • jeff88jeff88 Posts: 94
    Well, guess I would have to cite VW's experience in adding a v8 to the passat line-up. it was essentially a thud, shoulder shrug and all. the passat didn't come close to doubling-down on sales based on 2 more cylanders.

    However, I suspect higher reliability ratings would have kept it at the top of the family sized desireability factor for comparison shoppers. As it is, what has been the anchor on the passat sales performance is the issue of maintenance. As I would much rather drive a passat than an accord, I would rather own the accord, v8/v6 notwithstanding.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    The RL doesnt need an 8. If somebody wanted to create a sleeper rocket out of an RL, a simple aftermarket turbo would do the job nicely. If this latest 3.5L is anything like the famous Toyota inline, 450hp would be a cakewalk.

    The Passat has all kinds of problems. The 2.8 engine is not good enough, the Japanese and even GM and Chrysler have much better six cylinders available. The W8 was a nice idea in theory, but 275hp was the best they could do? The 350Z beats that with a six, and the G35 sedan could easily make 280hp+ if Nissan wanted it to. All motion 4WD was another nice idea, but saddled to the underpowered W8 and you have a $40,000+ slug, with bad gas mileage, and VW makes the worst NAV systems in the entire industry. Im not even sure if the Passat offers one at all, considering how old it is. The Japanse are starting to learn how to copy Passat driving feel. The Accord, with some real tires as opposed to the very mediocre all seasons it comes with, drives very nicely. The Mazda 6 is another car thats a hoot to toss around, and both will show their taillights to a Passat 2.8 with ease.
  • venus537venus537 Posts: 1,443
    i don't know of any v6s from chrysler or GM (except the one used in the saturn VUE Red Line - it's a honda!) that match the smoothness and refinement of VW's 2.8L engine. it's under powered though compare to most of today's V6s.

    next year VW will correct this problem with the new passat. new jetta next year too, way too long for that car.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    When I refered to GM and Chrysler I mostly meant from a horsepower perspective, rather than ultimate refinement. GM has a certain new DOHC V6 that makes 240hp thats supposed to show up in some of their new cars. Technically Chrysler has the M-B 320 engine at their disposal :)

    We'll see about this new Passat. If VW decides to use their current 3.0L, its still going to be not enough, that engine is barely capable enough to keep the A4 3.0 midpack, which is a smaller and lighter car than the Passat, and I dont think the 3.2 DFI will make it, they have to do something to seperate the Passat from an A6. Of course the Phaeton and A8 compete with each other, so maybe the Passat will become the VW A6.
  • cericceric Posts: 1,092
    Talked to an Acura salesman today.
    According to him...

    Production begins Sept-Oct.
    Dealer training in Oct.
    Delivery end of Oct to early Nov.
    Most likely there is NO option at all.
    Everything is standard. Some dealer-install options remain.

    Just FYI.
  • jrock65jrock65 Posts: 1,371
    Wow, no options huh. The current RL is about $46,000, no options. That means that the new RL w/ all its improvements and AWD will probably be about $50,000.

    A similarly featured (pretty much fully loaded) AWD M35 will probably be about $50,000 as well. But I'm thinking that the majority of the people don't opt for the AWD, Navi and some of the "tech" items, which means that the MSRP of the most popularly configured model would be about $44,000.

    This is all conjecture of course.

    Early November, then about 4 months later, the GS and the M come out. Gonna be a battle.
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