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Acura RL

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Comments

  • varmintvarmint Posts: 6,326
    I guess Kristie doesn't appreciate our attempts at providing her with job security. :-(

    Rctennis - I think the current design trend started with the MDX quite a while back. For whatever reasons, they skipped the RSX (possibly because it's sold in so many other markets). Then the look returned with the TSX and TL.

    I appreciate the fact that they toned it down a little bit for the RL, but were able to keep many of the same lines and shapes. It's not a perfect car. But at least it doesn't scream, "Hey, look at me! I'm supposed to be sporty. Yoo hoo, over here!" Instead, it's an athlete wearing a business suit.
  • gteach26gteach26 Posts: 576
    ..on the NY autoshow RL page.
  • pg48477pg48477 Posts: 309
    I went to the Auto show today, here is what I think.
    RL looks much better than it is on the pictures, there are a lot of lines you can't see on the pictures. Car look elegant and at the same time sporty. When I saw first pictures I thought it was just ok but nothing special, now I think the car looks great.
     On the other hand 2006 M45 did not look as good, but still very nice looking car, interior though was not impressive( once again).
     Also liked new A6, very elegant looking car, I also think it looks better than pictures.
     New GS was bland, nothing special. Lexus rep. said they will make AWD for V6.
    I my opinion E class is the best looking car in and out, I'm not big fan of MB.
    And last BMW 5, I did not like it. Saw many on the street before, exterior is not impressive, kind of ugly for me, but nothing compare to interior of the car. You think G35 has cheap interior, think again, I think 5 beats all in ugly and cheap interiors. I was very desapointed because thinking of buying on when my leas is over.
  • cericceric Posts: 1,092
    He said, "Below $50K guaranteed fully loaded".
    He also said that SH-AWD is standard. I am just wondering if the new RL would offer manual like TL does? Anyone?

    The new Infiniti M35-AWD (based at $41K+) can be priced up to $51K fully loaded. M45 is based at $54K. At Infiniti.com site you can test-build one.

    However, we know that that those prices are marketing gimmick for surveying. It is not final. Every time you check in, it may be different.
  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    the car looks fine to me. I just hope it sells well.
  • gteach26gteach26 Posts: 576
  • carguy58carguy58 Posts: 2,303
    About Acura making exciting looking cars the 1991-1995 Legend Sedan and Coupe were pretty good looking cars and are classic's. The Integra also was slick looking. THe RSX to me is too bland for a sports car design.

    I don't know about Acura selling a car for 50K. They should have priced at 45K noyt at 50K.
  • nebraskaguynebraskaguy Posts: 341
    I just returned from the NYC auto show. I went there specifically to see the new RL. It did not disappoint. The pictures definitely do not do it justice. It's a beautiful car. Not quite as much style as I would like, but understated elegance. It is reminiscent of the Accord, but there are distinct differences, mostly in the trunk and the headlights. I took the brochure with the pictures and walked over and looked at the Accord. Similarities, but no mistaking the RL for the Accord.

    They wouldn't let us see the interior, but the pictures on the Acura website give a pretty good idea of what it will look like.

    The Acura representative said the SH-AWD will be standard and she has been assured the price will be under $50k.

    The bottom line - I drove to my dealer upon my return from NYC and put a deposit on the 2005 RL. Subject to a test drive, of course, but I fully anticipate driving one by October.
  • andy71andy71 Posts: 96
    The geniuses at Acura once again shot themselves in the foot. REAR WHEEL DRIVE V8 that is what people demand in marquee cars unless Acura is low balling the RL to compete with the Lexus ES330 rather than LS 430. This a luxury car for heavens sake not a peaky roadster like the Honda S2000. When will Acura realize that people in this category won't settle for anything less than 8 cylinders.
  • carlisimocarlisimo Posts: 1,280
    So on one thread we have people wishing automakers would stick to their roots, and here we have people telling Acura that it has to do what everyone else does to be successful...

    In any case, it might just be that Honda isn't big enough to develop a V8 and a new rwd platform. Refusing to go for big displacement and rwd has led them to do pretty amazing things in the past, and maybe they're happier without the customers who think they need a V8.
  • rctennis3811rctennis3811 Posts: 1,031
    It may sound disappointing at first but then you'll have to remember that it has the most powerful V6 in it's class and it's close to some V8's HP ratings. Also, SH-AWD is supposed to have the best handling available. We'll just all have to wait and see.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Andrewtran, I like Honda and Toyota cars. If I were choosing between an Accord and Camry, it would be Accord hands down. My daily driver is an LS430 though, I don't want it to be able to tear up some switchbacks, I want a comfortable long distance cruiser, and the LS just squashes any Acura at that kind of duty. Agree about the RL dash, Acura is taking their interior designs up several notches, and I like what Im seeing.

    1487, I called the STS a bore because it is one. I got up close to one today at the NYAS, it looks like the new Chrysler 300 sedan. Boxy, and boring. Hertz renta-car here we come! The TL may be FWD, but Edmunds was able to shoot through a 600ft slalom course at 68mph!! I'd like to see a supposedly superior RWD CTS even try that. The TL will also stomp the amazing RWD CTS on acceleration, torque steer or not. The STS interior looks low-rent compared to every other product besides Cadillac. Even Lincoln, as much as I dislike them, have better interior designs in their new cars than the STS. I even sat in the $75K XLR, and the interior in that was a piece of cheese too. I smell $5000 incentives, and crap residual. I dont recall Cadillac's brand image ever being better than Acura's. Cadillac might sell more cars, but you just have to look at the used listings to see which ones are considered "desirable." Infinti 2 years ago maybe, but once the FX45 hit, it was all over.

    Andy71, why are there so many like you, asking the EXACT same question over and over? NO V8!?!?! WHAT!!??! Take a look at some sales figures before you start screaming for blood. The RL is not intended to fight the LS430. Acura KNOWS they cannot win that. Its poised to go up against the GS430, and the Infiniti M45. The V6 GS300 outsells the V8 GS430 at least 5\1. Most people dont get the V8. Also, have you seen the actual power output for Honda's new 3.5L? 300hp. A quick history lesson. The 540i made 282hp. The E430 made 275. They were both V8s. Wise up.

    I actually got to see the RL up close and personal today, and to be honest, I was a bit underwhelmed. I like the front of the car a lot, its got a nice classy but agressive look to it, but the back just didnt do it for me. It just reminds me way to much of an old 2.3CL. The new GS and M45 I absolutely loved, simply gorgeous. If Acura can fix that back end a little with the final car, I'll definitely consider, otherwise, pass.
  • cericceric Posts: 1,092
    I drives '98 540iA daily.
    When people like Andy talk about V8, it is about torque, not hp. In BMW's defense, the old V8 generates 282hp/310ft-lb, the newer version generates 290hp/324ft-lb. Compared that to the new RL's 300hp/260ft-lb(estimated). A flat torque curve gets you going between 1500-6000rpm anytime (85+% of peak torque). A high hp low torque vehicle needs a stick shift to control rpm precisely and instantaneously. Hopefully, the new RL's F1-style shift is great enough because there would be no manual transmission, at least in the beginning.

    That said, I really like the new RL for its great design in many aspects and reliability as well. I have been burnt by my Bimmer many times (more than 15 problems in 6 years). I am fed up. MB and Audi are even worse in that.

    Finally, no offense, but I think the M45 has a major ugly back-end. Especially the white patches near tail lights (are those backup lights?). The front is OK. Each person has one's own taste. I really like the G35 coupe, though. Almost bought one.
  • 14871487 Posts: 2,407
    If you think the STS' interior is no competitive with its immediate competition than you are being ridiculous. It is obvious based on your posts that you are some type of Acura/Lexus fanatic who wont face t he facts. If you dont like the STS that is your perrogative, but to say it is boring compared to Lexus or Acura vehicles is laughable. The STS is a sharp looking car and it definitely holds its own against the ugly GS and dull looking LS430. There isnt a car in Acura's lineup that really compares at this point so why even mention Acura.

    The CTS may not suit your taste, but the car is selling very well and I would imagine it is close to the TL in terms of sales, and that is with a higher price. The TL doesn't really have any glaring faults except for torque steer, but that doesnt mean the CTS isn't a good buy. It's distinctive, fast, roomy and cheaper than the German competition.

    If you think Acura's brand image is as high as Cadillac, or any of the Germans you need to think again. First of all, Acura has never really competed in the $40K+ range in any way. Look at how many vehicles Cadillac sells than cost over $40K and than compare than to Acura. Even cadillac's cheapest model cost more than Acuras two most popular car models and don't dare say all of Caddy's sales are due to incentives. That is crap anyway you cut it. Acura's are luxury vehicles, but in terms of price and feature content they are not on the same level as Cadillac. Essentially you cant get most things available on Acuras on an Accords that cost less money.

    Infiniti? are you serious? They have two successful products, the rest of their lineup is lacking. The new truck looks ridiculous as well. On top of that the interior of the best seller, the G35, is worse than the CTS.

    rctennis,

    The STS' interior is uninspired? compared to what? I don't think its any less inspired than a Lexus or Acura interior. Those two marues make nice interiors, but no one has ever called them groundbreaking or inspiring. Those are terms usually reserved for Audi.
  • 14871487 Posts: 2,407
    If acura does indeed have a common design language and the TXS, TL and RL alll look the same, why is Cadillac being criticized for the STS looking like the SRX, or CTS for that matter?

    The RL is a nice car, and it looks much better than its predecessor, but dont think that people are going to abandon the V8 powered competition jsut to gain 2mpg in fuel economy. The RL will be bargain when compared to the 5 and E, but no so much so when compared to the larger STS and equally sized, but V8 powered GS430 which will be competitively priced.
  • carguy58carguy58 Posts: 2,303
    You can't compare the 2. Acura post Legend era really wasn't that good. There was nothing wrong with the 96-98 TL but it just didn't sell as Honda wanted it too. Ever since the MDX Acura has started to regain its form. Caddy had its faults in the 90's too. Both Acura and Caddy fell behind the Germans and Lexus in the 90's.

    As far as Acura's cars using the same design theme there is nothing wrong with it the Germans having been doing it for years. I don't see nothing wrong with Caddy doing it either.

    Finally, to compare the present RL with any competetion is ridiculous. Honda was busy with other things. The Current STS has been in the same since 1998 and the current RL has been in its present form since 1996. Lets see when the new versions of those cars come out.
  • jrock65jrock65 Posts: 1,371
    Acura has two successful products as well, TL and MDX. RSX and TSX can't be considered luxury vehicles.
  • cstilescstiles Posts: 465
    Okay, let's remember that Acura is still a tiny niche player in the luxury arena. In fact, there are no Acura's outside the US...the car is sold with a Honda badge everywhere else. Honda is a significantly smaller company than its Japanese and primary European brethren. It has resisted mergers in an effort to stick with their philosophy---highly efficient, non-turbo, small displacement motors. It was less than 10 yrs ago that Honda finally agreed to drop a V6 into the Accord. For years it argued that a 4 cylinder was more than enough. They are one of the few players still offering manual tranny's while everyone is bailing out. Good for Honda!

    Cadillac obviously sells lots of cars, but let's face it, outside the US, it is a non-player. The STS bombed in Europe. Don't even get me started on the Cimarron, ElDorado, Catera, and Escalade. But, having said that, nice to see that Cadillac is back and one of the very few bright spots for GM. But I dislike the origami-styling of the CTS. I think the blocky Chrysler 300 is also very ugly. But to each their own.

    The RL will do very well, since it will offer comparable luxury, performance, state-of-art AWD, safety, and high quality for $10K to $20K less than other "luxury" brands. It will be a successful "tweener" car. It will come loaded, with few options. Acura has chosen not to play directly against the V8 luxocruisers like the LS430. But it knows that it can conquer buyers who are currently driving Audi's, Saabs, BMW, Mercedes, Volvos, domestics, mid-line Lexi and Infiniti cars. It will also draw some Honda-philes who are ready to step up from a TL, TSX, or even top-end Honda/Toyota brand. Plenty of SUV-owners fed up with their $40K barges that get 10MPG.

    The RL will kick [non-permissible content removed] in 2005, though its numbers will continue to be relatively modest. But that's all Honda needs to do. It's still a tiny player in the luxury field, but highly profitable and still setting sales records.

    No way the RL will offer a manual transmission. I wish, but it won't happen.
  • rctennis3811rctennis3811 Posts: 1,031
    It's so obvious you're biased towards every car make besides GM. Don't argue with a guy who's an import guy and say he's wrong because of that when in fact you're a GM DIEHARD. Please...
  • 03oddity03oddity Posts: 60
    Not to be teacher's pet or anything, but whoa! I popped into this board after a couple days' absence hoping to learn some interesting tidbits about the new RL, only to find out it's degenerated into a flame war. Can't we all just get along?

    Now--cstiles, you are correct about RL playing to a certain niche. I'm a Saab 9-5er at present, and ready for something higher tech in the $35-45K range--therefore, TL or RL. Each has its advantages and each looks to be THE price-performer in its category.

    I can't fathom paying $10-20K more for a car--even a really nice one--though I could afford it. Fuel economy is important to me, so I actually prefer V6 over V8. RL is at the upper end of my self-imposed price range. With all the goodies that come standard on the new Acuras, I don't think I'd be missing much by eliminating some of the others mentioned here.
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,788
    The car looks great. I gotta admit however, where the tail light and rear deck meet, it smacks of the BMW 7-series (do I dare say "Bangle-Butt?").

    Believe it or not, I mean that as a compliment. I think Acura took the over-the-top Beemer's rear and really refined it into something very tasteful.

    Bob
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 11,025
    LOL, yes, I spoke too soon. If someone else doesn't agree with your opinion, just let it go. You're not likely to change someone else's mind by tossing around accusations of unwavering loyalty to brand X. Neither will you will by arguing that their subjective viewpoint is wrong, so just mooooooooove along.

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  • pg48477pg48477 Posts: 309
    I understand you trying to protect all American automakers, but what you say is nonsense. Price does not make car luxury, if Cadillac vehicles cost more than Acura it doe's not make it more luxury. Cadillac would love to lover the price but they can't during to high cost of production. If you ask me brand can not be considered luxury with interior quality no better than Hyundai
    Just for the record I love Cadillac's V8:)

    I'm not surprised Acura did not come up with V8, why would they? About 85% of vehicles available in both V6 and V8 actually being sold with V6. So why would Acura bother spending money on something very few people buy, if they can spend it on revolutionary AWD and nice quality interior. Oh yes, RL was not build to compete with full size luxury vehicles like LS, S, A8 and 745 ( no reason to mention Q45), but with mid size such A6, GS, E, 5 and new M. Non of the mentioned above mid size vehicles sells well with V8(M45 being the best example). Acura has one of the most powerful with 300HP and Torque equal 282 not 260 as somebody mentioned, pretty good engine in my book. I hope they will make RL with 6MT.
  • cericceric Posts: 1,092
    Hi, pg48477:
    Are you saying the new RL engine would generate 282ft-lb of torque?
    This I got to see! Where is your source, may I ask?

    Current BMW M3's 3.25L makes 262ft-lb with 11.5:1 compression ratio. By projection (assuming this engine reaches the same refinement as the M3 engine), 262X1.077 = 282ft-lb!!!
    TL's 3.2 only make 238ft-lb with 11:1 ratio.

    Remind you that M3 had 200+ engine blowup for 2001-2002 years models. Let us hope Honda can do better to avoid that.

    300hp/282ft-lb!!! that is in the territory of most 4L V8!!!
  • pg48477pg48477 Posts: 309
    I have heard it from the rep. in NY Autoshow, I also saw this number on the web(don't remember were, if I'll find it again will give you a link). I don't know for sure if 282 is a true figure but so as 260 , I guess it's all speculation at this point, no official numbers were posted on the torque. Honda/Acura had build grate engines and if they can make an engine with270HP, 238 torque I don't see why can't thay make one pumping out 300HP and 280 Torque.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    "If you think the STS' interior is no competitive with its immediate competition than you are being ridiculous. It is obvious based on your posts that you are some type of Acura/Lexus fanatic who wont face t he facts." Funny, every single professional review I've seen of a recent Cadillac (including Edmunds) have slammed them for down market interiors. So I suppose all these pro auto journalists are all biased GM haters as well?

    If Cadillac doesnt need all those incentives to move products.. then why are there so many incentives? Does GM like giving away free money? Lexus and Acura sell their cars at, or even sometimes above msrp.

    "Even cadillac's cheapest model cost more than Acuras two most popular car models. Acura's are luxury vehicles, but in terms of price and feature content they are not on the same level as Cadillac." Ok those two statements dont even make sense. If the TL easily beats the CTS on feature content (which it does) and according to you costs less than the CTS, how are they not on the same level? Seems to me like they are on a level above.

    If you think Cadillac's interiors are as inspired as Lexus, obviously you've never driven an SC430. I'm glad your happy with your cash back rebates, recalls, bad quality and depreciation, but dont try to convince us that Cadillac is better than Lexus and Acura. Wrong forum.
  • jrock65jrock65 Posts: 1,371
    The 350Z 3.5L V6 makes 287hp/274 torque. My guess is that the RL 3.5L V6 will make somewhere between 270 and 280 torque.
  • cericceric Posts: 1,092
    VQ35 on 350Z has the help of high volume intake and less restricted exhaust/muffler. That formula is hard to be ported to luxury sedan like RL. Look at the G35 Coupe. It is tamed down to 280/270. Further reduced to 260/260 with G35 sedan. The rumbling exhaust notes of M3, 350Z would not fit the sedan spec. I wonder how Honda can pull it off. Interesting to see.

    Final note: VQ35 only has 10.3:1 compression ratio. So, I guess it is possible. But, Honda has to work with SOHC (as speculated), not DOHC.
  • rctennis3811rctennis3811 Posts: 1,031
    Just imagine what Honda can do with DOHC instead of SOHC....aaaahhh :-D
  • chavis10chavis10 Posts: 166
    All you people that think a flagship luxury car can compete or steal sales away from other brands WITHOUT a V-8, you need to think again. You can make all the excuses you want, but Honda is being cheap buy not building a V-8. Sure, the RL might compare well to BMW/MB/Audi 6 cyl models, but people who can afford a V-8 will not settle for a V-6. Acura will continue to pack as much content into a too good to be true price and thus will never really be accepted as a true luxury car manufacturer. I personally like the styling of the TL and new RL. However, if I'm gonna spend $50-55k, the car better have a V-8. A high winding, low torque 6 just doesn't befit a full sized luxury sedan. Luxury cars are all about effortless comfort (until Comand, iDrive and MMI arrived). I don't care how refined or quiet the engine is, it'll work harder than the V-8s in the class and the luxury class is not about doing a bunch of work.

    "I understand you trying to protect all American automakers, but what you say is nonsense. Price does not make car luxury, if Cadillac vehicles cost more than Acura it doe's not make it more luxury. Cadillac would love to lover the price but they can't during to high cost of production. If you ask me brand can not be considered luxury with interior quality no better than Hyundai
    Just for the record I love Cadillac's V8:)"

    What does make a luxury car a luxury car then??? Since when has Cadillac's quality been no better than Hyundai? These exaggerations are preposterous Don't people consider a BMW 3 without leather, CD player, sunroof, fog lamps, climate control, etc a luxury car? Despite the fact the numerous "non luxury" cars offer way more for less, they aren't considered luxury cars. You people kill me with these biases towards Cadillac. You read a couple magazine articles and start going overboard. Last time I checked everyone's quality but Lexus, Infiniti and Acura was a lot less than you would expect for the price. Yet only Cadillac gets singled out.
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