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Comments
If the dealer verbally agrees to your offer but won't confirm in writing, put it in writing yourself. You could say something like this is your understanding of the deal and if some term is missing, to contact you immediately.
Then when you get the run-around, you have some nice correspondence to send to the GM, owner, regional rep, the newspaper, Attorney General, etc.... :-)
It's really sad if you have to go to this extreme, but it sounds like some dealers/salepeople are in the dark ages when it comes to straight shooting on the car lot. No wonder people hope Wal-Mart gets into the car business!
Steve, Host
Steve, Host
I had one dealer say he would sell me a 2004 Sienna for "$200 over invoice". The only problem was, the "invoice" price I was talking about, from Edmunds.com and a few other car sites that all matched, was $1,300 under the "invoice" price he allegedly had, after he added all the "extras" like undercoating, VIN etching... When it came down to it, he wanted to sell the vehicle to me for $1,500 over the invoice I was talking about.
As far as Honda not budging much off MSRP, this is the first I have heard of them budging at all. Until the Sienna came out, there was typically at least a 6-8 week wait in Western Pa for an Odyssey, and now most of the dealers have at least 2-3 in stock. Once there are more Siennas available and the Odysseys sit untouched, you'll probably see the Honda dealers change their tune.
Infact, I am looking for CE W/ PKG# 3 & as per Toyota they will custom make it for me in 16 weeks. I also spoke with Bennett Toyota and was even ready to place order for LE 8 Pass w/Pkg# 7 instead. But their price included about $520 holdover cost in invoice price and hence above my budget.
So when I emailed to place order for CE W/PKG# 3, they have not got back to me. Even I will not buy or call them again if in-case they don't have time to respond my Request for Order Information.
Now that I have heard negative about them, I am thinking of not doing business with them even if they call me with information that I requested.
I believe that Business is a 2-street, and if they don't me then I don't need them either.
When we originally heard (read) about the $850 over invoice, we called and they denied that deal. Since we were driving up one weekend to visit family anyways, we decided to visit Bennet anyways. Brought a printout of the post with the deal Bennet was offering.
The Sales lady said no problem, and when we told her exactly what van we wanted, Le-7 with #8 she wrote up the quote, itemized 26434.00 not including the taxes and $154 of dealer handeling and Pa reg. fee. The $500 deposit is refundable if the van that comes is not what we want since the extra packages are not predictleble.
If we do not want that van with any of the extra packages we could wait for the next, or we could pay for those extas at cost. The itemized contract that we signed does state the refund on the back if the vehicle comes in at a higher price than quoted, (hence the extras).
So far the only complaint that I have about Bennett is the time frame, but I am willing to be patient for the deal that I am getting.
My hubby and I were talking about not wanting to drive two vehicles back from Pa(no trade, three hours). I thought maybe renting a car for the five of us to go one way might be the best. Hubby called up and talked with our Sales lady and she offered to check with Enterprise to see if she could get a better rental price than listed on the net. As far as I am concerned, that is not necessary, but definatly good customer service.
I have read several positive posts about Bennett, but only one negative. To me that is still a good track record. The difference with us I guess is that we were hesitant about dealing on the phone and the net, and to everyone's suggestion, dealing in person is always better. I am not trying to defend Bennetts actions, but OUR experience sofar.... has been good.
It does make me sad to hear(read) of all the folks paying MSRP when others are getting better. I just means that the dealerships will be able to get away with it for longer.
Good luck and I will keep everyone "posted" .
Here is what I have so far from a dealer in the Washington DC/MD/VA area:
Platinum -
6yr/100k miles - $930
7yr/100k miles - $1130
Has anyone else gotten any better deals out there?
From what I understand, I can buy from any state via a credit card so I am just looking for the cheapest deal.
I don't think I want to go with Warranty Direct or those other aftermarket warranty companies because I don't know if I trust them....
If you have a major breakdown (over $1000) during those years, you end up making your money back (and then some)... BUT make no mistake about it... Selling extended warranties is one of the biggest money makers for the dealers!
Do you mind telling us what you paid for an XLE in Washington? I'm interested to see how much off of MSRP dealers in the greater Pittsburgh area are willing to go.
Powertrain for 5 years is good but if your computer, or those doors break down, it can cost some big dollars...
So $900 for years 4, 5, and 6 don't seem too bad. You are right, it only extends the powertrain 1 year with the 6 year warr.
XLE Fwd (I)$25,150 (R)$28,260
Destination (I)$510 (R)$510
Tx Freight Charge (I)$25 (R)$25
Pkg #12 (I)$3,148 (R)$3,875
Carpet Mats (I)$181.50 (R)$225
Running Boards (I) ? (R)$599
Rear Mudguards (I) ? (R)$89
Total (I)~$29,014.50 (R)$33,583
I can't find invoice price for the running boards but find it hard to believe the Running Boards and Rear Mudguards account for the $1,111.50 discrepency! He assured me nothing more would be added than what I ordered it with. The $1000 over this Dealer invoice is $31,126, still a good deal but I'm wary of this dealer if he's misleading me about his numbers.
Any advice out there?
5346 XLE FWD $25,150
FR Pkg #12 $3,148
CF Carpet Floor Mats $119
RB Running Boards $349
Mudguards $53
Destination $510
Tx Freight Charge $25
$571 Estimated TDA for Houston (TDA is Toyota's advertising price, it is region specific and is not negotiable. It's a line item on Toyota's, other build it into their base invoice.)
$201 Estimated Holdback (also a line item in Toyota's invoice.)
Estimated Invoice Total $30,126
Edmunds and KBB doesn't include TDA, MAF and ETC in their invoice prices. You can get estimated TDA numbers from http://www.carsdirect.com. Hope that helps.
I'm assuming these charges are legit. I'll be ordering from this dealer, I need a $500 deposit though, which he says is fully refundable.
We'll see...
It looks like a pretty good deal at this stage in the game. Hopefully they are allocating the van for you and give you a delivery date within a reasonable amount of time. (Less than 90 days.)
Good Luck.
Machinemata: what dealer in Houston offered you invoice + 1K? I am searching a decent deal in Houston too. Thanks if you can disclose the dealer's name.
I emailed 22 dealers total in Houston, Dallas, Waco, Killeen, Temple, Austin, San Antonio, Corpus Christi, and the Rio Grande Valley. As you can see, I don't mind traveling for a good deal. The dealer taking orders for $1000 over Dealer Invoice in Houston is Mike Calvert Toyota. Fowler Toyota in Dallas is also taking orders for $1000 over Dealer invoice, but I'm going with Houston thinking they'll get first dibs on vans since they are arriving at the Houston port.
If you decide to go with Calvert in Houston, check my profile and mention my name. Maybe if they know they are getting some internet exposure, they won't try any add on tricks when it comes time to pick up the van! Let me know of your experience.
About dealer holdback, I thought it was already included in the invoice and gets refunded back to the dealer after 90 days. If that's the case, then the holdback is paid to the dealer by the consumer and manufacturer!
kgnw1, what gives? Any idea?
Here's how my van broke down:
5356 XLE LTD FWD $29,652
HE Pkg #4 $1400
RB Running Boards $399 (Sorry machinemata I gave you the wrong price)
CF Carpet Floor Mats $119
TDA $682 (Seattle)
Gas $6
Dealer Holdback $689
Wholesale Financial Reserve $344
Destination $510
So my invoice was $33801. My final deal was 2% over $34,477.
Toyota just shows on their invoice that the dealer will get $689 (2.3%) back on my deal. They will also get $344 back for the Whsl. Financial Reserve.
WFR is a charge normally used to floor the vehicle. It includes detailing, pre-delivery service and interest charges for keeping the vehicle on the lot. Most of the time if a vehicle has been sitting on the lot, the dealer doesn't make any money on this.
TDA is more of a mystery. I don't know if a dealer gets any of this money back, but Toyota uses this for the TV commercials, magazine ads, etc.
I sent an email to Steve and I will see what he come back with. I think his dealership is actually not too far from me. How much did you end up paying?
When negotiating with them (and any other dealer) tell them you want an "out the door" price. After I agreed to a selling price they tried to add in a Toyota regional advertising fee when I returned a few days later to sign the paperwork. While this charge was most likely legitimate I took offense at the way they attempted to pass it on to me. They told me it was non negotiable. Since they were still holding my deposit check I asked for my check back as I got up to leave. Only then did they agree to eliminate the charge.
If they would have told me about this fee upfront I would not have been opposed to paying it but I would have included it on my comparative price quotes from the different dealers that I was shopping.
Bennett has been in business for many years (25+) and also has Infiniti, Jaguar, and Chevy franchises that I'm aware of.
Vince
My experience with Bennett was very satisfactory. The internet manager contacted me about a van he had in stock, in the color I wanted. It had some $350 of options that I didnt want, but I accepted the deal when he offered me the options at invoice. Plus, I was taking delivery of the van next day-not 3 months later.
I talked with the salesperson by phone some 15 minutes-we negotiated the number ($850 over invoice)-I told hime I will not give my credit-card number until he faxed over the "drive-out" numbers, which he did. I went over the numbers-checked them against the invoice listed on Edmunds-saw that there wasnt any extraneous additions on the fax other than the Tax+TTL and a $59 dealer handling fee (a small sum to really bicker about).
I then called him, and made sure that he wasnt going to spring any additional fees when I come in to the dealership, and only then gave my credit-card number. As a matter of principle, I had even steeled myself to walking away from the deal if he had sprung any fees on me. But it never came to that (and I never went through the pain of fighting for the refund). The next day, he was true to his word. Everything was above board-no extra fees and the whole transaction was done without any problem.
Of course, from my calculations-I knew he was holding on to the holdback+Wholesale FInancial Reserve), which came to a handsome profit (See my earlier posting#1412), based on the invoice number implicit in the drive-out price. But, atleast his profit wasnt as insane as the other dealers who were asking MSRP. I've heard dealers almost never deal on the holdback and the Sienna is a hot vehicle right now, so I figured there is no point in even talking about it.
I think one of the main reasons I am happy with my purchasing experience, is that he had the van in stock, and thus a VIN# and a list of options that I could make a decision about, as opposed to booking for a vehicle which has not even been built, dont know what sort of options it has, and the possibility of "change of mind" on both parties (dealer could decide he'd like to make more profit or the customer could decide, he'll get a cheaper price elsewhere) and thus the ensuing heartburns because one of the parties to renege on the deal.
So, all in all, I think I was very happy with Bennett probably because the salesperson was straight-forward with me.
Sorry for the longish post.
-sr15
I really didn't worry about all the fees and concentrated on the "out the door price" instead.
And Sienna is an exception because it is a NEW model. But dealers in NJ have couple of vans in their lots especially XLE'S higher end models.
So they are either selling at MSRP or few hundred $s off MSRP.
It was not same with ODYSSEY, as dealers did not have SHOWROOM display van for 2 years.
Considering the present auto sales and toyota's target of producing 150k vans per year, I am sure we the consumers will have chance to pick our choice of Van right off dealers lots by the year's end. Moreover, Summer will be gone which also is the time when minivan sales are always UP.
For your information, there were 3 dealers in PA., who were giving 2% above Invoice Deals, but 2 of them went back to MSRP.
And Bennett Toyota increased their offer from 2% to straight 850 above invoice + started being Arrogant & showing some Attitude because LOTS of people from this FORUM calling them and NO ONE else giving this deal.
I am still willing to place order from them provided they get back to me with information I requested and fax me all details like others have recommended before giving credit card number.
Also agree that deposit is refundable if I do not like the van in Test-Drive before delivery because some people have already had transmission problem as I already have 4 vehicles with transmission problems.
It is a real cost that the dealer pays to Toyota when they buy (or more accuratly finance) the cars when they get them.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Options:
LE Package #1: Includes
Trip Computer/Homelink, Power Right Passenger Sliding Door, Rear Seat Audio
Preferred Owner''s Portfolio
Wireless Headphones (Pair)
Preferred Accessory Package 1
Price: $25,435
Price includes all freight/destination charges and excludes taxes, tags and
titling fee.
is it a good price or am i paying too much
2.i sent a email to Toyota National Head quarters
about the options selection
they are saying that i can choose whatever i want not as per delear suggestion
even we can buy Sienna without rear seat audio, Trip Computer
We are not in HUGE hurry and are looking to leverage any bonus at end of year (cross fingers) to increase the down payment. If I had to wait until Spring I would use the tax refund too. But based on the appeal of Sienna AND the economy - what are you folks seeing as the optimal time to buy. I know convertibles are great to buy in winter, and SUV's are pricier in winter, but when are prime time minivan buying times? Being as its a 2004, I cant even go by the 'they are looking to get next year's models in' unless its a 2004.5.
Any advice?
Thanks!
First, Toyota is not making CE PKG.#3 yet, but they will custom make it for you in 16 weeks in factory & equip options at their port(another factory of toyota to install options).
In Model CE PKG.#3 is same as PKG.#7 in Model LE,
Both packages have VSC, Traction-Control, Side curtain Airbags from safety point of view plus many other items.
Although I am told by senior officer at Toyota's NJ regional office, I am NOT convinced that Side airbags, VSC and Traction control could be installed at Port factory.
So I have decided to wait if I want CE till Toyota Offers in My New Jersey Mkt.
However, I am considering to go for LE pkg.#7 since I will have wait for it too (6-8 weeks for delivery).
But Bennett Toyota salesperson has not got back to me , so I don't want to call him because they have already begun Acting up a little recently based on some posts on this forum. Like I said before, Business is a 2 way street so I want them to call me as I did initially call them.
Honestly, I hope another dealer starts giving same or better price, so people at Bennett get back to Normal. Like they say Competition make you Perfect.
Like you said, SUVs are in demand in Winter, I would say VANS are in Demand whole Year, But they are Most in Demand in SUMMER, because Most of Us go on long trips in Summer. And since you could wait I am sure by the Year's End you will be able to pick the Van of your choice right from the Dealers Lot at probably 2,3 or 4% over Invoice.
And if you can wait more, till next spring when it will be 1 year old model, You will also get lot of mistakes fixed which are usually higher in it's introductory year with every model & make.
To TOM4365, I would suggest you to contact internet sales manager at Bennett Toyota in Allentown, PA who are giving any model at $850 above Invoice. In your case it will be substantial savings because of very high MSRP.
Remember, Edmunds Invoice & Dealers Invoice Price is not same because edmunds does not contain wholesale fin'l reserve, TDA fees etc. So do not be surprised if Dealers invoice is higher by few hundred dollars.
Since you live in Philly, I am sure Bennett must be at reasonable driving distance.
But please read both -ve & +ve reactions from members in last 8-10 days and then decide to contact Bennett Toyota.
GOOD LUCK to both of you.
Atleast this is evident from the invoice sheet shown by Bennett Toyota. Cant imagine that different toyota dealers do this differently.
-sr15
I prefer those auto headlamps on my Kia Sorento. There is no DRL. But when I set it AUTO, the headlights (low bean) will turn on automatically like enter a tunnel, highway overpass and at dusk.
Well, here is my point, if we just focus on the out of door price, then Sienna dealers' invoice price (inovice + TDA + dealer holdback + whsl fin. res + destination charge) is nearly $500 more than Edmunds' quote of invoice + destination charge. This may not mean much to people who make Sienna their only choice of minivan, since most Toyota dealers may be playing the same number game. However, in the case of Mazda MPV, what you see on Edmunds agrees with what the dealers ask for. I don't have experience with Ody dealers but based on the Ody consumer discussion board it should be similar to the case of MPV.
Just my $0.02.
Everybody's pays TDA (atleast right now). I factored it in too (and it agreed with the final numbers Bennett faxed me). In the fax, there was just the retail price (which implicitly included everything:ActualInvoice+Holdback+WhlsFinResrv+TDA(~$465)+DestCha- - rge+$850)+Tax+Title+License Fees.
All I ensured was that the retail price in the fax, matched my own calculated Drive-out price, before giving my credit-card#. I think my calculation and their retail price was off by some $15 in my favor.
Hope this made it a little more clear.
-sr15
Here's a FAQ about how Edmunds figures the pricing around here.
Steve, Host