Pontiac Bonneville

tpken

Ride comfort and quiet is definitely advantage Bonneville from what I have experienced between my carpool's 97 GTP and my 00 BV SE

Ken

mfahey1

I think this sort of comparison discussion will always go on whether it is between these two cars or any two others. So long as cars update cycles are out of phase with each other, the cars will take turns showing advantages in various categories depending on which one was updated last.
Remember, until the 2000 Bonneville came out, the Bonneville was getting pretty long of tooth, not having been updated since about 1992. The 2000 comes out and leapfrogs ahead of the GP but now with the GP the next one in line for an update, odds are good that it will prove superior in some of these categories.

jeffbog

iceman, I've been running Mobil1 and extending intervals beyond the 3000 'norm'. I can't remember how I reset the GP last time. I guess I'll find out tomorrow when I go back to 10-30 from the 5-30 I ran in both this winter.

There is roughly 6000 miles on the oil, still looks decent (color). Wife does a lot of highway driving.

Have a good weekend all.

theiceman

You make a good point Mark. But I don't recall thinking the '97 Grand Prix was superior to the 92-99 Bonneville in any particular aspect - aesthetics aside. That's just me though.

Other thoughts: The two cars are so similar in interior size and powertrain that the comparison is a natural. And, on paper, there's not that much difference between a BV SE or SLE and a GP GT or between an SSEi and a GTP sedan. The differences then become a little more subtle - and are more evident in a long test drive or ownership. The subtlety of the differentiation is, IMHO, one of the reasons why the Bonneville hasn't sold particularly well - on paper, it just doesn't make a good enough case NOT to buy a Grand Prix. Besides, the GP is a pretty good car at a fair price.

Nevertheless, the Bonneville is simply built against a higher price point - the platform dynamics (and components), suspension, etc. are therefore that much more sophisticated, refined, robust, whatever. The next GP may very well match or exceed the BV in these areas - but they'd have to raise the price point of the base GP (currently the SE) to do as good a job as the current BV all around. GM can only achieve so much refinement off an assembly line geared to make a car that's going off the lots at $21k.

tpken

That the GP has beaten the BV in sales volume is the reluctance of many buyers today to drive a full sized automobile. The 'mid-sized' market is where all the action is and full size has retained its popularity only among older buyers. Particularly affected is the female segment. When is the last time you saw a 25 - 35 y.o. woman behind the wheel of a full sized car?

The new Camry and Altima have stretched the mid-sized platform to the largest ever and the proposed new Ford mid-sized platform is rumored to have Crown Vic proportions inside. But the exteriors have to be 'mid-sized' to attract buyers. Perhaps soon only Cadillac and Lincoln will be left with a full-sized entry.

Never mind that young mothers today drive Excursions, Suburbans & Yukon XLs, and even the huge new crew cab pickups. When it comes to cars - Midsized Rules - nearly exclusively.

Pity.

ottawaguy

Wow! Thanks for all the perspectives; tpken - mark me as one who wants a full-size, loves the size and feel, but needs to justify the price...

And I'm still stuck with the dillemma: is it worth the $$$?

I know its up to me in the end, but my "wants/needs" are:

-size - I'm 6'3" with short legs (for my height) and thus a large torso - need head room. I'm also pretty broad, so hip/shoulder room is very important. From the specs I've seen, the 2 are quite close in this area, but what about long-term feel? After a couple months driving, which one would probably have a more "open feel" in your opinions?

-bells and whistles: a way to sell my wife on the Bonneville would be this way; I can't seem to determine what perks are standard on the Bonneville (SE) that aren't on the GP - any ideas? Or ones that may not be advertised (other than frame, etc.. that you all have addressed).

-build quality - is there a diff? Noticeably?

-cruise comfort - will be used as a commuter by the wife but also for road trips (we love them and want to do more), so a big, smooth vehicle is pretty important. Is there a tangible difference? Some of you have inferred that there is some of one, but care to elaborate?

-power - we both like oomph! Both cars have it, I know, but the GP "looks" quicker, and is off the line...? How 'bout passing?

No need to answer all that if y'all don't want. I've gotten more info here than I ever expected! I dunno, though - there is a big diff in price, even with the GM employee discount, so that may in the end be the deciding factor. Just don't want to regret not buying a Bonneville, ya know?

Thanks again!

tpken

Otto - Why not take a rental weekend in each and see how they feel to you.

I can vouch for my 00 Bonne SE at 48K miles now being smooth and quiet, rattle free and feeling very spacious. I drove 2000 miles recently (Maine to NC and back) and it was a total pleasure.

One of the 'perks' you'll get std in any Bonne that is (I think) unavailable on GP is the automatic load leveling feature - can be important if you are going to carry a fair amount of heavy luggage or people in the back seat. Another is the "catcher's mit seat' up front that will work in a rear collision to help cushion the thrust forward. Large Buicks and Caddies have these as well.

Check out the rear seat comfort on both BV and GP - both have fairly low seat cushions and canted backs - and may not be as comfortable as a more upright seat like in the Impala for example.

Good luck

Ken

skyhawk3

My wife has an 01 SLE that I drive on weekends. I recently rented a 2002 SE to drive to FL from RI to go to a military reunion. My thoughts on the difference between the two BV models. The acceleration was the same, the handling was noticeably softer. Gas mileage about the same.(24mpg) I missed the heated seat, the radio controls in the steering wheel, the automatic temperature controls, and the computer information center. I liked the fact that I did not put 3000 miles on either of my vehicles over 7 days.

theiceman

I'm about 6'2" and longer in the torso as well. I definitely have more headroom - even if it's only a smidgeon. And better vision out the windshield (the BV is a taller vehicle) than in my wife's GP. The extra "elbow room" in my SLE is noticeable too.

I'd say a feature that we've perhaps overlooked here (but Ken touched on it with his reference to the seats) is the safety. The Bonneville is rated as one of the safest vehicles out there - very high ratings from both NHTSA and IIHS ("best in class" from the latter) whereas the GP does just a little better than average. This was an important consideration for us and a key reason why we didn't buy an Intrigue when we bought the GP (the Intrigue's crash test results were worse).

Build quality? hard to say. I know that the BV dashboard uses far higher quality components than the GP but that doesn't mean it's screwed together any better. Small touches like the absence of a seam on the dashboard for the passenger airbag whereas the location of the GP's pass. airbag is obvious.

Power - they're geared about the same and use the same engine so the difference is inconsequential whether at launch or passing.

Cruise comfort - they're close to each other but the ride in the SE is definitely more compliant than that in the GP GT. Move to an SLE or SSEi though and the difference becomes smaller. Your rear passengers, though, will be more comfortable in the BV than in the GP - independent of which trim level you choose.

Is the BV worth the extra $$? It was for us because the BV is our primary family hauler - the extra comfort and protection were worth it. If we didn't have kids, I might have looked at a GTP for myself.

That's it for now. Good luck.

mlm4

I heartily agree with my colleagues here on the virtues of the Bonneville. The only GP I have driven was a base level rental, and although it's fun, it didn't have the panache of the Bonnie. For me, the rarity of Bonnevilles on the road is one of the plusses (I like being unique!), along with the fact that it is the flagship model (I only want the top-of-the-line!).

I am (and have been on this board) somewhat critical of the Bonneville too. I expect better build quality for a $30k+ vehicle, and this is not just a Bonneville problem but a GM problem. I also have a small but irritating vibration problem on my 2000 SSEi that is all too common on this platform (includes Aurora) and apparently difficult to correct. And as far as headroom -- I'm 6'2" and my car has a sunroof -- there isn't enough with the seat jacked up which is the way I like it. And I can't even sit in the back seat without slouching (the rear seat is higher than the fronts and the roofline is lower than LeSabre).

But don't get me wrong, I'm still here because I am just as passionate about this car as everyone else. I love the performance, the gadgets, the styling, and the pride of owning a full-size built-in-the-USA Pontiac. Maybe these are all subjective impressions, but isn't that part of the ownership experience?

ezrapon

Other than the fact the GP folds up like cardboard in a crash, it comes down to preference. If I wanted pure 4 door performance I'd go for the GTP or Regal GS (I believe the moonroof actually retracts into the roof on the Buick... That over the roof design on the GP seems tacky at best). Easy to get great 1/4 mile times with the GTP, lots of parts suppliers. Ride quality, overall build quality seems better (a seat of the pants observation), technology, safety, and exclusitivity, you got to give the nod to the ssei. Mfahey: I'm good for next week end. 1st you must drive mine with the mods (or better yet line them up). As I have not driven a stock ssei in 2 years, I am curious how fast mine really is. I'll dig the puller out when you are a for sure. Bring plenty of RS pictures... My 10th anniversary T/A be here...too bad we can't line them up too!!! e-mail ezrapon@swbell.net

tpken

I've got to pipe up here for Ottawaguy and say that the ride in my SE is definitely improved with the addition of the rear stabilizer bar. It's a smooth ride but corners well. It was kinda sloppy before. I wouldn't hesitate to buy another SE and beef it up a bit to firm out the handling.

theiceman

that's were I'm a bit confused. The last '02 BV brochure I saw (I no longer have it) indicated front and rear sway bars for the SE -I know that'd be a change from '00-'01 if it's indeed true.

Can anybody else confirm/refute this?

smfran

Considering the comments made about mid-size exteriors with full size interiors (Ken), how does this relate to safety? Wouldn't there be great sacrifice in having less metal between the passengers and the exterior?
My wife once had a Mitsubishi mini van which had plenty of room inside but the rear seats were so close to the back window, It bothered me to have my family in it. We traded it for a Toyota Sienna.

rjs200240

I was shopping for the Olds equivalents (although I did check out the Bonneville too) in that I was considering an Intrigue vs. Aurora (well, I was pretty much set on the Aurora, but the price difference was compelling) and here are some things I considered. Size was a bit bigger in the Aurora, more comfortable interior and better quality materials (much more luxurious, I mean everything was: soft-touch plastics, real wood, much softer leather, beautiful gauges and lighting, thick comfortable steering wheel). Much quieter ride while still being athletic (part of that is the much sturdier G-body that was revolutionary for the original Aurora. Solid enough that Cadillac used it as a foundation for the Seville/Deville). Plus there were lots of little things like rain-sensing wipers and dual-zone climate control (although I think the GP might offer that. I know the Regal does), lumbar adjustments, memory seats (great!), load-leveling rear, and a DIC. One thing that wasn't an issue for me (because the Intrigue has it) but would be for Pontiacs is that the Bonneville can be had with stability control and the GP can't. I also like the Aurora's clean look without the chrome wheels and a spoiler that were standard on the Intrigue GLS, plus the bigger available engine; but that wouldn't really apply to the Bonnie/GP. The only trade-offs were a slightly smaller trunk (wouldn't apply to Bonnie, though) and forgoing fold-down rear seats for just a pass-through. These didn't bother me as the trunk space is plenty (more on the Bonnie) and I don't use the car as a junk hauler so I hardly need fold-down seats. Compared to an Aurora, the Bonneville doesn't get the extra two cylinders or the wood trim, but it has a lower price than an Aurora. All in all, I would have gotten the Bonneville for the money over a Grand Prix if Olds didn't exist. I don't know how helpful this is, but I guess it doesn't hurt to hear more opinions (you can always disregard it).

tpken

Those Auroras are magnificent cars and I'd buy one in a heartbeat for the right price. The interior layout and overall level of comfort and trim is par Cadillac for sure - and arguable as nice or better than SLS. Enjoy your great ride!

Ken

tpken

Totally off topic but I thought some might find it interesting.

I took a couple of test spins this past weekend - one in a 1999 MB E320 and then in a 2000 SeVille SLS - just for the fun of it and to drive 2 cars I've never tried out before.

In a nutshell - the MB felt rock solid, extremely safe and BORING. It does everything well but I sensed that I would tire of the car very quickly.

The SeVille Northstar had a wonderful muted V-8 roar and smooth as silk steering, tranny, etc but the car has CHEAP plastic appointments. The armrest on the console was loose and rattling - felt ready to fall off but otherwise it was an enjoyable drive. I could see myself in that car more than the MB.

Next I'd like to drive the Saab 9.5 and the Volvo S80 just for kicks. Maybe a Jag S Type too. Haven't done this in ages - got to do more - just for fun.

Ken

theiceman

None of us ever do enough of that. Test driving does way more than reading reviews examining spec sheets ever will.

Nice observations BTW

Dan

ottawaguy

Well folks, thank you for the input so far. As I've said, it has been more helpful than I ever thought!

No, no purchase yet, but...

Tested the Bonne and GP side by side this past weekend. Wow. Lotsa subtle differences. One thing I was waiting to find was a GP with power seats and no sunroof, so I could find a way to fit in it. I did, then took a look at the seat. It looked really funny. I had the seat lowered to its lowest setting, back all the way, and tilted back almost 30 degrees. Noone would possibly be able to get behind me, and my wife pointed out that there wasn't a chance we'd be buying a car that I had to adjust that much just to be comfortable in...

The Bonne? Hardly any adjustments. Seems to fit better, overall, too. Love the dash - at first I found it a bit cluttered, but it grew on me pretty quickly. Interesting idea on the vents. The engine was nice - although its the same one, I did perceive subtle differences. The GP's seemed to be tuned to be abrupt and a bit jerky - almost like it is supposed to be thrown around the road. The Bonne's was smoother, but still stout. I'm curious... anyone know what is done for the "extra" 5 hp?

Well, still gotta debate with the better half (she, for some reason, wants a truck but is coming around...) but its lookin' like we'll be sitting in our new Bonne SE within the next couple months.

Thanks again!

rjs200240

The extra horsepower is from easier packaging in the Bonneville. There is more space for suitable intake box and exhaust manifold packaging, and the result is an extra 5 horsepower from what is otherwise the same engine.

theiceman

Exactly RJ - this is why the G-body Bonneville and LeSabre are the only two cars where the 3.8 produces 205 ponies in the reguarly-aspirated version. The supercharged version overcomes the "shortness of breath" and W and G body applications of the s/c 3.8 all yield identical hp peaks.

ottawaguy - I think the "jerkiness" that you're feeling in the GP is related to differences in the stiffness of the accelerator pedal linkage. The GP comes off as being more tightly wound but it really isn't - it's just that the Bonneville's linkage is smoother. But that's the sort of thing you'd expect in a car that (a) was re-designed 3 years more recently; and (b) lists for $thousands more. BTW, you can still chirp the Bonneville's tires - if you have to...

loud_pontiac

Another reason the W-bodies (Impala, GP, Regal) have less power is that they have a U-bend in the exhaust, which our larger cars lack.

boosted1

When we were looking to buy our new car it came down to a decision between the Bonneville SSEi and the Grand Prix GTP.

I called my local dealership and made arrangements to go in and really compare them both side by side. After a test drive in each we pulled them into their shop and parked one behind the other. (It was Saturday so we had the shop to ourselves)

We spent the next 2 hours jumping from one to the other trying front seats, back seats, passenger driver etc. Then we brought in our 2 car seats and the baby stroller and shoved all that junk in as well. The salesman was very patient and helpful.

We ended up going with the Bonneville because you get a liitle bit more room inside and it has a little more room in the trunk, especially the opening of the trunk. The Bonneville did a little better in the crash test ratings as well. Oh... it also comes with that cool air compressor and a bag full of goodies in the trunk.

The GTP felt quicker off the line and was more "fun" to drive from a performance point of view, with the SSEi being more of a cruiser.

I am inclined to buy a GTP next to go along with the Bonneville. Then I will have the best of both worlds.

Don't know if this helps or adds to the discussion, but I wanted to share.

Enjoy the ride.

btate2002

I didn't feel like reading through all the post, but I thought I would ask, Has anyone had any transmission problems with their Bonnevilles? My aunt has a 2001 with just over 7000 miles that the transmission tore up on. It had to be just about rebuilt. Needless to say, I don't think she really wants to keep it now. It is a REALLY nice car, I like to drive it, but the transmission having major problems at 7000 miles?

mfahey1

No troubles with the transmission on my 2000 but based on previous cars, when there is a problem related to the transmission, GM does not want the dealers doing a rebuild but instead, has the dealer install a factory rebuilt unit. This is based on several cars, the last being a 96 so it is possible the policy has changed but based on that, I'm surprised they are talking about a rebuild on the transmission.

theiceman

I think that's true when the car is still under warranty - as btate's aunt's is.

btate: that's a horrible experience - and unusual (but not unheard of) for these particular units - and I hope your aunt can get over it. The good news is that rebuilt trannies quite often last longer than the factory-built units. Apparently because the tranny specialists take more time putting them together. I know I had a rebuild on my '95 Villager that was still going strong when I sold it last year - 65k miles after a rebuild (at only 50k miles). It was probably the best part of that van when I sold it.

Your aunt will take a bath on it if she doesn't keep it - more than it would cost her to rebuild the tranny post-warranty if she absolutely had to. The best advice (if she's nervous) would be to wait 6 months or so before deciding - and buy the extended warranty if she still needs the peace of mind.

my $.02

theiceman

Last weekend I had a funny little incident that I thought I'd share with you guys. First I have to preface it with a disclaimer: I am NOT a speed demon and I rarely get pleasure racing. Plus, as you all might remember, I just have the L36 powerplant. That being said...

I was on a nicely paved four lane road with a 50 mph (really 80 kph) speed limit. I was doing 60 mph. To my rear, there was an red Integra doing the rapid,jerky lane change/tail gate thing. He pulls even with me - I'm in the left lane, he's to my right. In front, I could see that the light was about to turn, so I eased off. Not this guy - he evidently likes to alternately speed and produce brake dust.

So, at the light, he's still to my right. As the light is about to turn, three cars coming from our right approach the right turn lane - and appear headed into HIS lane. Integraguy starts to cheat forward - sensing the impending obstacle in his lane. I turned to my wife and said "watch this". I turned off the traction control, waited until the light turned green (at which point the Integra was already in front of my by 1/2 a length) and then I punched the accelerator for maximum acceleration/traction. He tried hard but it wasn't even close - he never got further ahead of me than that 1/2 a length. I wonder if Integra guy told his buddies about the huge land yacht that embarrassed him.

My wife asked me why I did what I did. "Good question" I replied, "you should ask him as well. It's a guy thing." Fortunately, I don't do it too often.

mfahey1

Your wife is a little more tolerant than mine. I too very seldom do the boy racer thing but a couple of months ago and with her in the car, we came up to a stop light after which the road merged. I was in the straight ahead lane and an older Mustang pulled up on the right to try to get ahead of me. I was so tempted to light em up but with her there, I just did the sensible thing and have been regretting it ever since.
We're going to St. Louis this weekend for a family gettogether and with a little luck, I'll be using Roger's pulley removal tool and installing my new 3.4" pulley. I haven't come up with a good excuse to tell my wife yet why I'll be disappearing for awhile but I'm sure I'll think of something good.

tpken

Wife: "I wish you would slow down around the curves."

Kids: "Dad - why does mom always go fast around curves? We get thrown against the doors."

Wife: "I wish you would show more consideration to me when you slow down. Don't stop so abruptly."

Kids: "Dad - when you drive you always stop and start smoothly. Why can't Mom do that??"

Wife: "I'm not sure it's a good idea for you to teach the kids how to drive."

Kids: "Dad - maybe you should give Mom some driving lessons!"

Is there a pattern here? LOL

theiceman

Ken - that made me laugh. We get similar comments from our kids. Some related to why Daddy's car is always so clean inside while Mommy's...

Here's a link to a high-res shot of the G/XP's dash/interior. Not that impressive IMHO - If they're going to tinker with the interior, leave the carbon-fiber stuff out of it and give me a nicer steering wheel (e.g. get rid of some of the audio controls and put the main cruise functions there), tone down those vents, and find another colour for the switchgear.

Are you listening Pontiac?

G/XP Interior shot

smfran

As some of you may remember, I posted last August about how my kids voted for us to take the Bonneville on our trip to Canada vs. our Sienna van. The comment was that they get car sick in the van but not in the Bonneville. I'm sure it has more to do with the driver (mom takes them in the van, while I always take them in the Bonnie).

Re: G/XP - Ice is right about the steering wheel radio controls vs. cruise control. I'd gladly trade the AM/FM and play switches for cruise on/set/resume. My '88 Bonneville had radio as well as HVAC switches on the steering wheel. Out of my 5 Bonnevilles, that was definitely the best setup.

mfahey1

I spent a couple of enjoyable hours yesterday meeting Rod(ezrapon) in St. Louis and drooling over his drop dead gorgeous 79 Trans Am as well as his jet black SSEi. I have seen a few of the black ones around through my windshield but not up close and I must say they are nice when clean.
Rod has the pulley removal tool and since I had just received my 3.4" pulley, we tried to put the tool to good use. In hindsight, I think we tried to use it as a conventional puller and got skinned arms for our trouble. I decided to give up and wait until another day when I wasn't missing the family gettogether we had driven down to St. Louis for. We also couldn't get the belt back on and finally bought a #50 Torx bit to release the tensioner.
His car was quite responsive on the way to the store with his 3.4" pulley and the 180 degree thermostat so I can't wait to put my new pulley in.
Ken, I finally saw another green Bonneville of the latest vintage on the way down to St. Louis. I think it is the only one that I have seen since I saw yours.

Mark

theiceman

Here's a nice auto show pic: http://ohcgp.clubgp.com/images/cas02/cas_bonny_gxp.jpg

Okay, here's what I don't get. They're talking about the new s/c series II that will appear starting with the '04 Grand Prix and they're quoting 280 hp. In the next breath, they say that the G/XP will get only 270 ponies - and that's with a K&N system and a Corsa cat-back! Can anybody else explain?

As far as wives go, how many of the rest of you also have to take care of the maintenance for your wives' cars? Show of hands please...

tpken

Regarding the pic you posted - there's just one work to descibe that beauty - SWEEEEEEEET!

pontiacrick

Have had my 2002 SLE now for 2 months. The car is equipped with the automatic HVAC system. Since it is getting warmer I have noticed the A/C comes on automatically. Is the only way to shut off the A/C compressor is to shut down the entire HVAC system? I do notice the engine seems a little more smooth when the system is shut off. I tried shutting the system off, but as soon as I activate the "outside" air button, the compressor clicks on. At this point, I am assuming this system does not allow outside air along with fan control without activating the a/c compressor. Any comments or ideas on this or am I just not getting something?

theiceman

Am I missing something here? My '00 SLE has a separate a/c button just below the passenger's control knob. If you depress it, the a/c shuts off - plus the system remembers that I want it shut off when I start the car the next time. As far as I know, the a/c stays off until I hit either the button again or the "auto" feature.

Has come in very useful that past few days let me tell you - given that Spring-like weather will soon be returning, I want to enjoy this heat while it lasts.

mfahey1

I agree with Dan. My 2000 has a separate button for A/C that can be used to control the compressor apart from the rest of the HVAC system.
Call it division of labor or whatever but I have always taken care of maintenance of our cars. Her involvement is to follow me to the dealer when either vehicle goes in for warranty work.
I got the new 3.4" pulley on today and it works nicely. Not rubber in 2nd gear nice but a nice little kick over stock. As I told Rod separately, I was sweating it quite a bit since I'm supposed to leave for Maine for a couple of weeks on Monday and my departure hinged on getting the Bonneville back on the road. On the ClubGP site, I read a number of horror stories on pulley installations so I decided to take it nice and slow. A few little hitches but otherwise, all's well. For anyone thinking of doing it, take about 2 minutes to remove the overflow tank as it gives you quite a bit more room to work.

tpken

That'll be a nice drive for you in the Bonneville. I'm starting to itch again - been about two months since my roadtrip to NC.

Ken

pontiacrick

Thanks iceman regarding my question on how to turn off the a/c compressor. I finally figured it out driving home yesterday....just push the a/c button....duh. sorry for the dumb question and thanks for your response. Still trying to get used to all the "auto" features of this car. My last vehicles all had manual climate systems so this fancy stuff just threw me!

theiceman

hey - took me a while too - I hadn't had climate control in a car since about '95. I do like climate control but, if you're not careful, you'll get the heat coming on in the summer and the a/c in the winter. Nothing is entirely "automatic" it seems.

thill381

Did you purchase the pulley removal tool? I am considering changing to the 3.4 as well and don't know if I should try to by a used tool or ask one of my dealers if I can use there J tool if they even have one. Just curious if you have the tool and would want to recoup some of your investment.

streetracer

Do you know of any good shops in NJ that will order and install a smaller pulley for you?

mfahey1

I actually borrowed ezrapon's while we were down in St. Louis last weekend. You might want to try poking around on ClubGP's site for a used one. I also bought my pulley from them as they were a bit cheaper on shipping than SLP. You'll also want to have a #50 Torx bit so that you can release the belt tensioner. Also make sure you use plenty of Never Seize or Permatex's equivalent. I used heat on the base of the pulley hub to get the initial release of the pulley and then used the puller the rest of the way. By that I mean that I hooked the puller up and drew it up tight and then used heat to expand the bore of the pulley to do the initial release.

ldevine

a write up on both at www.motortrend.com

smfran

Thanks for returning on a regular basis. The Bonneville owners club discussions have picked up again since your return.

More HP in the GP vs. the Bonneville? That doesn't seem right.
The pic of the G/XP is great. I will seriously consider one if available when my lease is up in May '03. I do like the higher fog lamp position in the current SSEi/SLE. I'm also considering an Envoy for a change of pace.

My hand is raised as one who takes care of my wife's vehicle. Beyond scheduling and taking care of routine maintenance, she tells me if something is wrong and I have it taken care of. In return, she does my laundry. I think I'm a winner in this deal!

mfahey1

Last night, we had our best friends over for drinks and dinner. Nothing special but since I'm leaving for a few weeks to go to Maine, we just wanted to get together with them.
They pulled up in their (actually his) brand new Beetle Turbo S and of course, the "boys" had to go for a ride so he could show me its features and performance. We only live a half mile or so from the country so it does't take long to get to a place where you can try things out. The Turbo S is brand new and carries a 180 hp 4 cylinder with a 6 speed. Very, very nice and quite quick.
Well, I just had to demonstrate the Bonneville's newfound power so we went back and got my car. The first launch, I forgot to turn off the traction control so I quickly corrected that for the second one. There went a few hundred miles of wear on the right front tire. I took it up to about 90 and as I was coasting back into town, I told my friend that the difference between now as "mature" adults and some years ago was that now, we do this type of thing before we have drinks.
Oh well, it was fun to relive part of our youth.

goodwife

Looking at a 2000 or 2001 Bonneville. Am curious about whether the dash reflecting in the windshield has been a problem for anyone. We test drove a beautiful Olds Aurora, but the large line in the dash reflecting in the windshield was a big distraction. Noticed some of this in Bonneville. Otherwise really like the car.
And lay off the wife bashing. I am on husband #2 and he and #1 were both the sloppiest people I have ever seen with a vehicle. #1 let not one, but two of our cars run out of oil. #2 actually smokes a pipe in the car and drops tobacco everywhere. So count your blessings. I bet your wives have plenty of things to say about the way you take care of your home.

goodwife

Does anyone know if the new white they came out with on 2001 Bonneville is a Pearl white metallic like the many recent other makes?

theiceman

Mark: LOL
goodwife:
1. Reflection lines aren't a problem for me in the Bonneville - could be the tan colour of my interior though.
2. I'm not sure, but I think the Bonnie white is not as "pearly" as the Aurora's and others. Can anybody else field this one?
3. Finally, don't get us wrong, none of us are complaining per se. I for one count my blessings. I just occasionally cringe when I have to use a shovel to clean out the interior of her car or when I discover that the windshield fluid's been empty for a week or a bulb's been burned out since "I forget" or... Anyway, I'm silent about it at home so we can consider this my little "outlet".
Stephen: my shirts go to the laundry - I got tired of doing them. I'm starting to see why you think that yours is such a good deal! >:P

P.S. you could do far worse than an Envoy - I like them a lot.

theiceman

I came across this (pretty balanced) review of an '02 Bonneville and thought I'd share it with you guys: Nowadays the push is on handling more than top speed. Salient line: "The only thing missing from the Bonneville bag of tricks is some promotion." Couldn't have said it better myself. Hey! Wait a second, that's what we've all been saying for the past two years!

Mark: reading your earlier e-mail about having to buy a #50 torx, I had to laugh - because the Bonneville forced me to do the same. My wife dropped our mailbox key between the seats and, as Murphy's law goes, it ended up falling down between one of the seat pedestals and the carpet. I needed a #50 torx to lift the seat support rail and slide a "small parts claw" to retrieve it. These keys are difficult to replace (have to go through the post office) so it was worth the $1.50 for the bit and the 15 minutes of work. Plus, I got to see some of the car's construction detail up close.