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Jaguar S-Type

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Comments

  • rea98drea98d Posts: 982
    So how does the S Type's interior compare to the XJ's? I think Jagaur wants a certain heirarchy with its sedans. The X for the first time luxury car buyer, the S-Type for people who want a little more "Jaguar" (No offense to X-Type owners, it's a great little car), and then for people who want the best and are willing to pay for it, there's the tried & true XJ. I don't expect Jaguar to make the S as nice as the XJ, even if they can do it for their target price. They want to give people a reason to move up to their flagship sedan. Personally, if I had the money, I'd place an order today for a supercharged Vanden Plas (or whatever they call it now), loaded to the gills, in British Racing Green. Of course, such a car would probably run into six figures easily.
  • Actually, an XJR maxes out at $78,175 (the VP maxes at $70,675 and is not available in BRG for 2003). The XJ is a larger car than the S-Type with more luxury built into it (burled walnut as opposed to birds eye maple for example). While it may be a part of the overall package, I don't think that the quality of the interior plastics has much to do with one's decision between the XJ and S. More likely, it is the size and styling that influence the decision. I personally much prefer the styling of my S over that of the XJ or the X, and wouldn't have considered any other Jag (except maybe the XK if I didn't need a usable rear seat).

    Are there some minor things about the S that I think could be improved? Absolutely. But overall I feel it is the most spectacular car (total package) I have ever seen. It is possible to find ASPECTS of one car that you like better than another. To me, that doesn't constitute complaining, but more the pursuit of perfection. It is a human characteristic that no matter how good something is, there will always be a way to improve upon it. This is how progress is made. If it wasn't for this aspect of human nature, we'd probably all be still living in caves and driving around in AMC Gremlins and Pacers!
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,062
    I hope everyone realizes that the S-type interior was redone for 2003 and most of the reviews (actually ALL the reviews) that I read said it was a big improvement over the original and that it was now fit to be called a Jaguar. Those who complained about the Ford parts bin interior bits on the 00-02 seemed to be pleased with the 03 interior.
  • You are correct. I was going to mention that, but got sidetracked. The interior of the S-Type is now very nice. I have a 2003 4.2 in British Racing Green which replaced my 2002 4.0 which had a few problems. Head to head comparison of the interior leaves no contest. The 2002 was nice, even though there were some very cheap looking/feeling plastics used. By comparison, the 2003 is much more refined and the plastics used are generally much higher quality. But the interior is just the beginning of the improvements in the 2003 over the 2000-2002. From a greatly improved suspension, state of the art 6 speed transmission, and many other tweaks this is truly a remarkable car.
  • Checked out the interior of the new 2003 S-Type at a local dealer the other day. Though I must agree that the total interior package has improved overall since the 2001 S-Type. I still felt that the black plastic face plate surrounding the Climate control and Audio head unit looked really really cheap! Something one would expect in a Ford Focus or Hyundai Accent, not a $50,000 mid-size luxo-crusier. The little wood grain looking plastic door that covers the ash tray looked just plain gawd awful! Why would any maker of luxury automobiles throw in high quality leather and fine wood trim and then finish it off with the cheapest quality plastics they could fine. I know you'll never see Lexus, Mercedes or BMW commit such a dastardly crime againt a luxury motorcar's interior. Guess you don't get much nowadays for $50,000, at least not from Jaguar.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,062
    You are absolutely correct - the S-type interior is pure trash. Now please go bother the forums for those other premium brands and stop whining about it here.
  • Mike-Lisa, I thought I recognized your writing style! Haven't seen you at JagTalk recently. Unless you changed your username there?
  • What are your impressions of the automatic transmission vs. the 2002 model?
  • Gary, the difference between the two is like night and day. While the 2002 was by no means even remotely a slouch, the 5 speed did not seem to be well mated to the engine. There was a slight hesitation starting from a standstill that was less than a similar hesitation my '99 Lexus GS300 had, but enough to keep the car from really jumping off the line. The biggest weakness, however, was downshifting for acceleration (for passing). The transmission seemed to have difficulty figuring out whether to drop one or two gears on hard acceleration, delaying briefly and ultimately very abruptly dropping 2. I found that to prevent the car from lurching forward, I had to gently apply pressure to the gas, which sometimes would result in no downshift and slow accelleration.

    The new transmission is virtually invisible. The shifts are not really noticeable, unless looking for them. The hesitation from stop is gone, and acceleration is virtually instantaneous, without the search for the right gear to drop to. All in all, it is vastly superior.

    Craig
  • I wasn't trying to be snippy here everyone, and I wasn't trying to cause any offense so I apologize if that was how you took my post. I was just trying to convey my thoughts about how everyone seems to dissect the car's interior when it is in fact a very nice interior - and it's even better than any of its competators' interiors in my opinion. Some people feel that the plastics used in one or two places should be of a higher quality, but to me, they demonstrate that they are of high quality in their resilience and strength. A complaint would only come from me if the plastics were defective or not functioning in a way that they should within the car. If they pushed-in or gave way when you tried to push a radio button, then I could really understand complaints - but they don't. If I thought they were ugly, I'd complain, but I don't think they are. If you simply don't like black plastic there, then you can choose to cover it up with more wood. But the whole Jaguar line has the same black plastic there with the same kind of "loop" around it, and I really think that it looks nice that way on its own.

    If you want "better" plastics there though, I'm not saying that you shouldn't keep wanting them, or if you want secondary climate control displays in your trip computer, then that's fine too. But I don't think people should be saying that the interior is a total let-down and is awful and ugly and unfunctional and uncomfortable and cheap and appalling to look at simply because of a little bit of black plastic on the radio and climate control system panels. You are right when you bring up that no car is perfect and that no car's interior is perfect, but if you all think that a little bit of "better" plastic and redundant secondary displays would make the interior perfect, then I think that it goes to show how really nice the S-TYPE's interior is. And that is why I am just sick of hearing complaints and even rants about it (jagone), when it is that close to being perfect. No one ever seems to bring up any of the good points about one of the nicest interiors in the segment, just complaints about what really are minor things. That was my point, and I hope no one takes offense from it.
  • Just get the charcoal interior...that'll hide the black platic if you can't get over it.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,062
    You're just young and a little overenthusiastic at times - it's understandable. Don't waste your fingers over folks like Jagone - it's possible he doesn't even believe what he writes and is only doing it for effect (there's a word for that but Pat won't let me say it :-( ), or he just doesn't get it and never will. It's not important and it's not worth arguing about. Just ignore it and move on.
  • I purchased a carnival red/sand '03 S-type 4.2 (w/o sport pkg.) last week to replace my '00 S-type 4.0 w/ sport pkg. While I had my share of the common problems with the '00, it was nearly flawless for the last 14-16 months I owned it. This fact, plus a superb dealer, plus all the positive reviews of the '03 convinced me to go for the '03. So far, I am not diasppointed. It is a fantastic car by all standards, especially the ride and handling which are due to the new tranny, the new engine, and the new suspension. Just great engineering.

    My wife leased a 2002 XJ Sport in January, so I can compare the XJ to the new S-type with some degree of confidence. The XJ "feels" heavier and its sport suspension is quite different than the non-sport S-type. From my experiences with the '00 S-type w/ sport suspension, I would say the XJ is a lot smoother. I am sure the XJ tranny is better matched than the '00 S-type as well, but the new '03 tranny on my S is something to behold - XJ doesn't hold a candle to this baby. I like the sport seats of the XJ and they should be similar for an S w/ sport, but I did not want that "hard" of a suspension this time around (guess I'm getting old). All in all, both cars are absolutely superb although they drive and feel different - and they should.

    The new S has much better std seats (say great seats) than the older S, it has more room in the left rear due to the adjustable brake/gas pedals, it has more room in the trunk due to the "thinner" rear shelf, it has more storage room and cup holders, its prem sound system is stronger than the older models although they left out some goodies such as some of the DSP features. It has a stiffer platform by 10% and the redesigned console and instruments look very nearly like the XJ, including the "black plastic" around the climate/sound controls. To me, this is quite stunning, and I have had nothing short of "excellent" comments from about a dozen associates who have seen the car. The stiffer platform results in fewer rattles and less overall noise.

    Finally, it will GO! It's the quickest car since my '69 Dodge Charger 383 w/ 4bbl. Maybe quicker, but one can't "spin the tires" with traction control and DSC engaged.

    For anyone who is on the fence, I do not believe you can go wrong with the new '03 S-type - at least the 4.2. Car, engine, and tranny were made for each other. I test drove the '03 3.0 and liked it very much, but once you try the 4.2, there is no comparison.

    Hope this helps someone.

    Brant
  • Oh no, in my last post, I just wanted to let whatup and anyone else who might have taken offense know that I wasn't trying to start anything and that I respect their opinions and their suggestions for interior improvements, but felt there were really only minor improvements that really needed to be made if made at all. Between my first post about the interior and my second one, I had noticed that Pat had had to delete some posts, and I assumed that my post may have started the rest of the deleted posts coming in. I hadn't checked back in time to read any of the deleted posts, but if I had caused a problem, I wanted to let everyone know that wasn't my intent. I also wanted to appologize if anyone had taken offense to something I had said. Jagone was just used as an example of one of the ranters in my other post, I wasn't about to focus on that subject. I guess I'm not being very clear - so I'll just say that if my first post had started anything, I didn't mean for it to. I had just wanted to put a little perspective in, but not cause any chaos if I did. That was all. Anyway, moving on...

    Thanks for being so understanding.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Um, people ... at least one or two of you ...

    There is certainly no need to get into an argument about who is a troll or not.

    If you think someone is trolling, just IGNORE the person. That's the best way to kill the troll, believe me!!

    Let's all say this together:

    don't feed the trolls
    don't feed the trolls
    don't feed the trolls

    :-)
  • "How good is your car? How good is the car you're thinking about buying? And where can you unearth the truth? Here, that's where.

    We've spoken to over 37,000 motorists, who've given us the full low-down on 120 models and 33 manufacturers. They've provided us - and you - with uniquely unbiased, spin-free information on every aspect of reliability, running costs, driving experience and treatment received from dealers."


    The Jaguar S-TYPE was rated the top car in its segment, and out of 120 cars, it rated number 10! Here were the rankings for its segment:

    1.) Jaguar S-TYPE
    2.) Audi A6 and A6 Avant (wagon)
    3.) Saab 9-5
    4.) Mercedes-Benz E-Class
    5.) BMW 5-Series
    6.) Volvo S70 and V70 (wagon)
    7.) Jaguar XJ6 and XJ8
    8.) Rover 800
    9.) Vauxhall Omega

    That looks pretty good!
  • All European, not one Japanese or American? Looks suspicious to me.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,062
    It's not suspicious - it's obviously a European survey. We don't have Rovers and Vauxhalls here.
  • Sorry, I just assumed everyone would know it was a European survey. They did have some Japanese cars that did very well like the Lexus IS 200, and there were cars from GM and Ford's brands on the list as well.
  • Hey,


    Have you seen the new XJ? Very nice...interior looks just like the 2003 S-Type. Go to:


    http://www.4car.co.uk


    Later

  • Do not think it'll be a barn burner, but its a perfect next generation XJ-series. Only problem I've had with the past XJ's is that they sit so low to the ground. If they've moved this new XJ up an inch or two, I would be mighty interested. All in all they did a good job of continuing the elegant XJ tradition. Hope the he/she doesn't delete my post! I believe its some what on topic, but then again here we are discussing the new Jaguar XJ on the Jaguar S-Type board.
  • that I know of providing Jaguar owners and prospective owners a forum to discuss Jaguar automobiles! This website has much much more automotive content and is of much greater value than the other website. Which I believe was built by recruiting members from this website, which in my humble opinion was based on very poor business ethic's. Well lets all take time to enjoy the Edmunds Town Hall Jaguar S-Type message board! CHEER'S!!!
  • Hi,

    I am seriously considering buying the 2003 S-Type
    of which you have written of very highly....
    Is yours a 3.0 or 4.0....The 2002 S-Type I have now
    is a 3.0....and does the 8 cylinder warrant the extra
    cost? Thank you in advance for any info. you
    can supply...
    P.S. What color did you purchase? {Another difficult decision}....My 2000 is Sea Frost....

    Another Jaguar lover,
    Jo Ann
  • Hi Jo Ann. I have a 4.2 (the 8cyl version) in British Racing Green/Tan interior. I personally felt that the 8 cyl was worth the extra $. Since it has more power than the 6 cyl, it runs quieter on acceleration. It also suits my driving style better. That being said, the 3.0 is certainly no slouch -- especially with the new 6 speed ZF transmission mated to it. The actual price difference between the two is only about $3500 (when you factor in the premium package, 17" wheels, and other items that are "standard" on the 4.2, but options on the 3.0). Check out the "other" board that we go to for a very complete recent discussion comparing the 4.2 to the 3.0 (I trust that not referring to it by name will keep Pat mollified).

    My advice, if you have been happy with your 3.0, you will find the 2003 version a marked improvement and will love it. If you test drive the 4.2, however, you may fall in to the same trap many have and no longer be satisfied with the 3.0.

    Happy Hunting,

    Craig
  • Thank you so much for all the information....
    I really appreciate it...Now for the test drives..
    Both the 6 and the ultimate 8!!! I'll let you
    know which I decide on...and what color I chose...

    Safe motoring,
    Jo Ann
  • kinleykinley Posts: 854
    a Town Car to the S V8. Differences in ride, road noise, performance, and interior comfort would be helpful. Thank you.
  • The Jaguar S-Type has better Performance and Interior comfort than the Lincoln Town Car. But the Town car delivers a little better ride quality mainly due to its size advantage and also lets in less road noise than the S-Type! Be nice if you could have it all. There always seems to be trade-off's even between luxury models.
  • kinleykinley Posts: 854
  • Thought you might like to know: I made my decision, and what helped, in addition to your
    welcomed information...While at my Jaguar
    Dealership looking over all the beauties there,
    my salesman told me about a new program Jag. has..
    My lease is not up until Feb. 1, 2003, but if I
    so desired I could get an early out, and lease
    a 2003 right now, at no cost...How could I re-
    fuse? Soooooooo tomorrow I pick up my 2003 V-6
    Quartz in color with a Dove interior...It's a rich
    color which brings out the lovely lines and chrome
    I like the placement of the Growler on the grill
    also...nice touch...I loved the V8 but found the 6
    power more than enough (for my style of driving)..
    Thanks again for all the help Craig...

    Until next time...
    Jo Ann
  • Jaguar sure do have crummy resale value as compared to Lexus, Mercedes, Audi and BMW. Wonder how come Jaguar's have the lowest resale amongst these brands?
  • kinleykinley Posts: 854
    overcome negative impressions about the car that occured prior to Ford ownership i.e. Lucas electrics really plagued the former Jag. As long as our side keeps hunting down old Nazi war criminals, I won't buy German. I remember.
  • WELL HAPPY HUNTING! In the meantime the rest of us AMERICANS! Will continue to enjoy driving our higher resale Mercedes, Audi's, BMW's, Porsche's and Volkswagen's.

    P.S. GOOD LUCK ON THE HUNT!
  • keyrowkeyrow Posts: 214
    Not all of "the rest" as I will not! But nice of you to speak for all Americans. BTW, when were you elected/appointed Emperor of America?
  • rea98drea98d Posts: 982
    Interesting that an American would have an Iranian flag. As you can tell, I'm not against putting up offbeat flags for variety's sake, but then again, Fiji never called us "The Great Satan" either.

    I'm in the "Buy American" crowd. If it says "Made in the USA" I'll buy it, keep my greenbacks in this country, and support the American worker. I won't not buy something because its foreign, but given the choice, I prefer American. So if the guy wants to be patriotic and not buy German cars, more power to him.

    OK, I'll shut up now, before I get into more trouble with the hosts than I already am with this post. Just had to vent.
  • What if he buys an BMW X5 or Mercedes-Benz ML? They're both built in the States. I can go on and on...

    The auto industry is too globalized to go with the "Buy American" crowd. Technically by buying a British-built Jag, you're still helping the guys out in Detroit.

    So there's no confustion, I'm proud to be an American...
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Oh, why don't we just get back to talking about the cars and leave these kinds of conversations to the multiple argu...., er discussions, that are taking place on the News and Views board.

    ;-)
  • kinleykinley Posts: 854
  • rea98drea98d Posts: 982
    What fun would that be, Pat?

    (Note: I am, of course, kidding).
  • saifusaifu Posts: 23
    I want to purchase a car very soon in the $30,000 range.The hottest candidate right now is a 2000 S-type either V8 or V6.I live in the Boston area and i have driven many V6's and i have always loved the S-type specially the looks.I drove a V8 at a dealer last week...exterior looked good condition other then a bump on the bumper that the dealer said he would fix...interior was decent too.I did like the extra power on the V8 and my i would prefer the bigger powerplant.What i want to ask all you folks here is that
    1,is it a good idea to get a 2000 S-type...i dont want more then 20-25K miles on it
    2, How is the reliability on the car.??Please be very critical
    3, What would be good deal for 2000 V8 with less then 25K miles on it??
    Eager to hear from you guys..
  • 2000 was the first year for the S-Type, and as such there were some initial growing pains. Scroll back, and you will likely find mention of most of them. Most notable was a steering wheel shimmy which seemed to be caused by an overly sensitive front suspension that required perfect alignment and perfect wheel balance. This problem wasn't completely eliminated until the redesigned suspension of the 2003's. I also remember an issue with the power windows failing on very early cars.

    Presumably, any issues that any car you are looking at had would have been fixed under warranty. Make sure that you get a printout of the car's service history from Jaguar and take any car you may buy for a long drive WITHOUT the salesman. Try to take it out for an entire day and drive it in different settings (local, highway, bumpy, twisty, etc).

    If the car passes your drive test and the price is right, go for it. You will have one of the classiest cars on the road that should give you years of pleasure. There should still be factory warranty left (basic was 4 years/50,000 miles), but keep in mind that, once the warranty runs out Jags can be expensive to repair and maintain (but no more so than other higher end marques).

    Good luck.

    Craig
  • I encourage you take a close look (and drive) at the 2002 Lincoln LS.

    Same platform, same company, more dealers, a joy to drive and be seen in.

    Great deals for both purchase and leasing represent a rare opportunity for a luxury sport purchase. You could come fairly close to your $30K target. In many areas, zero % for FIVE years.

    I leased a 2000 model for 2 years, 32,000 miles. Best car I ever drove.

    Driving it is believing.
  • Sorry, but I beg to differ. Yes, the Jag and the Lincoln started on the same basic platform, but they are hardly the same car or same company. They were each designed and built completely independently of one another by separate teams an ocean apart. Yes, everyone knows that Ford owns Jaguar, but that doesn't make them the same company or the same car. Ford also owns Aston Martin, Volvo and Range Rover, that certainly doesn't make any of those cars Fords either. Is a Mercedes the same car and made by the same company as a Chrysler because Chrysler owns Mercedes? I don't think so.

    Yes, the pre-2003 S-Types share some interior parts and switch gear from the Ford bin. And, yes both cars use engines that STARTED from the same block, but the head, valves etc. on the S-Type are pure Jaguar and far superior. The S-Type is hardly "just a fancied up Lincoln LS" as some claim.

    Certainly, drive an LS if you are so inclined, and if it suits your needs, buy one. You will never go wrong if you go with your own personal likes, dislikes and needs. There are lots of different cars out there for lots of varied tastes and requirements. You're sure to find the one that matches your requirements.
  • kinleykinley Posts: 854
    an old Mustang. I've driven the LS v 8 and was amazed at it's snap from a stop. However, a 4.0 S would be preferred as it is uncommon compared to the LS.
  • keyrowkeyrow Posts: 214
    I think you are putting up a defense against a nonexistent "affront." He did not say the LS and the S-Type are the same car he said, "Same platform, same company, more dealers, a joy to drive and be seen in." Most of that is absolutely true. Both do have the same platform (as you yourself acknowledged), the same [parent] company, there ARE lots more Lincoln dealers than Jaguar dealers (at least in the US), and the LS is indeed a joy to drive - I have one, and have an '03 4.2 S on order so I am not promoting one over the other. As for the LS being a joy to be seem in, I am not that egotistical so I don't care but I readily admit the Jag will turn more heads than a Lincoln. If 30K is a limiting factor I would rather purchase a NEW LS than a 2 year old S-Type. You are correct in that one ought to drive what pleases oneself rather than worry about what someone else drives OR thinks. Gschwartz was only saying that the LS is a viable option and should be taken into consideration. Relax, everyone knows the Jag is a superior luxury car; although I will keep the LS, and the infamous LS GRIN, for running twisty roads.
  • Hey,

    If you're looking for a Jag, why don't you look into a new X-Type? The pre-2003 S-Type interior is a major disappointment.

    By the way, the Lincoln LS is getting a slight redesign for 2003, including an all new interior similar to the Navigator.
  • saifusaifu Posts: 23
    Thanks for the reply everyone.The Lincoln is out of question..i dont like the LS that much to buy it.I have narrowed by search down to 2 cars...the 2000 ML320 or the 2000 S-Type (V6 or V8).I know the ML is very reliable and practical but the S-type is soo much more classy.I know the interior isnt great but i still like the car.As far as the X-type is concerned....hmm its maybe a little too small and i wanted a bigger car..but i have certainly thought of the X-type even though i have yet to take a drive on it....but i would still prefer the S-type.What i would like to know is if the S-type will be a relaible car?I will most likely keep the car for a year or so....which engine is better the V6 or the V8 in terms of reliability...i certainly would like to have the extra power.....i would love to get whatever input anyone can give me as i want to get the car ASAP....thanks in advance
  • dl7265dl7265 Posts: 1,381
    is very reliable ??? ummm are you sure about that ? the early ML's had MAJOR teething problems, Id vote for a new X in your price range. Good luck

    DL
  • We used to have a 1998 ML320 (first year of production), which my parents traded in for their 2003 S-Type 3.0. There were definately teething problems, but they were mostly limited to rattles and things like that (in other words, minor annoyances). But it was comfortable, reliable, and never let us down. I loved the ML (I had it up at school during the winter) and it served us well. I definately miss it. And many of the problems were dealt with by the 2000 model year (compare the interior of a 1998 to a 2000).

    You'll probably experience the same things with the 2000 S-Type. There will be teething problems, but they'll probably only be minor.
  • If you are planning on keeping the car only 1 year, I wouldn't get a new anything. You would lose your shirt in depreciation come trade-in time after only one year.

    The S-Type is proving to be extremely reliable so far (remember, the oldest is only 3 years old and likely still under original warranty, unless very high mileage). If you keep it for only a year, you may well be under warranty for the entire time. As I said previously, and whatup reiterated, there were "first model year" problems with the 2000's, as with any first year car (the 1998 Lexus GS300 and GS400 come to mind). Most of these were minor problems, and if any were present on a car you are considering they were likely fixed under warranty long ago.

    The major complaint with the pre-2003 S-Types was the shimmy. It seemed that the earliest cars, equipped with Pirelli tires, had the most problems, and the later cars equipped with Michelin Pilots had the fewest. In any case, it is imperative that the cars alignment and wheel balancing be as close to perfect as is attainable. That seemed to be the only way of eliminating the problem. For whatever reason, the design of the suspension was such that it seemed incredibly sensitive to even minor variations in balance or alignment.

    My personal preference is the 8-cylinder version - that is what I have. It is a bit quieter on hard acceleration than the 6-cyl, and the added power suits my driving style better. The 6-cyl is certainly no slouch, however, and has more than enough power for most people. You wouldn't go wrong with either one.

    Craig
  • saifusaifu Posts: 23
    Craig....your input is great.I have come across two S-types now. Both 2000, V6 S-types.One has 4300 miles on it!! yes just 4300 miles with few options...when i spoke to the dealer he just got the car and he said it had no sunroof or premium sound...but i really want heated seats and he said he wasnt sure if it did have them or not....but then again what attracts me about the car is such low mileage.The price is a tad under $30K....there is another one black on black....around 22K miles...and all the options including premium sound for the same price. I saw another one few weeks ago but that was a 4.0 with 23k miles and the same price as well...it seemed like a great deal but i didnt like the condition of the car all that much either...no heated seats in the car also. So what do you guys say?? Which car should i consider more seriously? Is heating seats something i can get installed in my car?
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