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To avoid thus costly charges, it should work to but the car in your uncle's name(hope he has a good driving record) and get your uncle to put you under his insurance. I do not believe you have to live with him, your uncle can just tell them that you come on the weekends and do some driving or something.
So, if you get into an accident that is your fault, it will be on *your* driving record and not *his*.
akangl - I know! I know! I love long trips in the 1.8T jetta - hope you have the CD changer so you can sing yourself hoarse!
Then I find out that the new VW Beetle is built in Mexico and I think, hmmm, a third world country, why is this great car manufacture assembling cars in the third world? VW has top sales but takes in very little profit comparing to the other top car manufactures.
To me, it feels as though VW is in the business of making quality cars and not making lots of dough, unlike another popular car manufactures, i.e. Chrysler. Which my mechanical, who is also my father's personal friend, says uses the cheapest parts and watching some business program I learned that they master the art of "out-sourcing" in the car industry. This is when you don't own the assemble plants that make and build your cars, but you contract them. And so Chrysler gets these plants to compete for the contract and the one offering the cheapest price -- the most profitable for Chrysler -- wins the bid.
Recently I learned my beloved Jetta is also built in Mexico, and my second favourite car, the Golf, is built in Brazil, this sounds like out-sourcing to me and it's got me scared [non-permissible content removed].
And now I'm considering that a more ideal car for me would be the Mazda Protege or the Mitsubishi Mirage Sedan. Even the Suzuki Esteem Sedan -- I know, that's scary. Above everything, I need a reliable car and while the Jetta's got a good price, amazing styling, quality parts and the diesel engine, it doesn't seem to have good assemble. And you know what they say, you're only as strong as your weakest link.
So, you VW lovers out there, I need you're help. Where can I read about the inner-workings at VW, why they went to Mexico and Brazil for assembly, etc? Where can I read about customers reports? Stuff like that. Though I ain't soon going to buy a new car, I have to have a goal to reach for and that WAS the Jetta and now I'm worried that I may never own a diesel -- oh, the fuel economy!
By the way, Chrysler (and all other car makers) outsource many parts. However, you are mistaken on your definition of outsourcing.
You say that Chrysler does not own the plants that assemble their cars, they just contract with them. That is absolutely incorrect. Of course Chrysler, and all other car builders, own their assembly plants. It is the parts that they outsource.
This is another example of the great internet misinformation machine.
I would bet that there is not a single company in the world that manufactures a complex product that does no outsourcing.
Do you think Chrysler makes every switch in your dashboard or on the steering column? Of course not! These parts are outsourced to electrical component companies.
Does Chrysler make the miles of wire that is used in the cars? No, it is bought out from a company that makes wire.
Does Chrysler manufacture the carpet for the floor? No, they outsource it to a carpet manufacturer.
Outsourcing is not the problem. Keeping a watch on the quality of the outsourced part is the challenge.
Don't make it sound like going to the low cost supplier is a crime. Do you ever shop for bargains in your own life? Again, the challenge is to get the best quality for the lowest cost and there is a trade-off here. It is a judgement call as to how low to go on the price scale to keep an acceptible level of quality.
Why does VW assemble cars in Mexico and Brazil? The labor is a lot less expensive than the U.S. In addition, they already tried the U.S. assembly route with there plant in Pennsylvania in the 1980's. It was a total quality dissaster and almost killed VW in the U.S.
The Pueblo, Mexico and Brazil plants have improved greatly since the mid 80's.
In addition, you state that the Jetta has a good price, amazing styling and quality parts but they don't seem to have good assembly. What is that based on? If the parts are good than they are doing a good job with their outsourcing.
Where do you get the bad assembly opinion? If anything, I would say that the fit and finish of the VW is a strong point and that directly reflects on the assembly plant.
Actually, one of my requests was if people could point me to places to get info. If I just rely on your word about out-sourcing, then that would just keep the great internet misinformation machine going. Do you know where one can read specifically about this?
>Don't make it sound like going to the low cost supplier is a crime.
No, but is it a surprise the amount of deals Chrysler dealerships have to offer the consumer who is interested in low-end autos? All those cash-backs and 0.0 financing really makes me laugh.
>In addition, they already tried the U.S. assembly route with there plant in Pennsylvania in the 1980's. It was a total quality dissaster and almost killed VW in the U.S.
I didn't know that, again, where can I learn about this? There must be a site or something. Where did you learn about it?
>Where do you get the bad assembly opinion? If anything, I would say that the fit and finish of the VW is a strong point and that directly reflects on the assembly plant.
I know the engineering is excellent, but I've been reading customer reviews and strange and funky things were happening with their new vehicles, there is some sort of quality control problem and I just thought it was VW weakest link, an assembly plant in Mexico.
And I forgot to mention the bad service people have been experiencing at VW dealerships. Again, more bad then good. And that shouldn't even be a problem because you shouldn't even have to bring your NEW car to get service. I'm sorry, what is the point of buying new if it doesn't work properly?
I don't know, maybe I'm too idealistic. Maybe when I take a closer look at Mazda and Mitsubishi I'm going to be let down as well. Then again, they still manufacture in Japan.
Hey, Vocus, the only reason I'm not thinking about a Honda or Toyota because there is already too many of those cars on the road. Don't want to be lost in the crowd, as they say(Jetta really popular too, but not the TDIs!) I'm starting to like the idea of having a rear window wiper.....And the Golf is a lighter car then the Jetta, with the same engine, so it must be faster, right?
WV did have a plant in Westmoreland, PA and it was a disaster. To me it says something. Why has every other company, Japanese and German been successful assembling cars in this country. Another fact, try buying a 92 Jetty. They don't exist, they had a strike at the Mexican plant that was rather long. Why were they the only transplant company to fail. If you believe some of the previous post you'd think they indebted engineering!
So those folks who are warm and fuzzy to Vows leadership; well I'm not buying it. As far as quality improvements - all cars have improved in the last dozen years or so. Vows cars are no different in their improvments. You have to decide if you like the product and is it worth the price. For my money there are tons of other product that is either just as good or better and at less cost of ownership.
Check your dictionary, but I thought a third-world country was one without industry. Mexico is not a third-world country. Why don't you go ahead and stereotype Mexican workers as lazy and sub-standard? With proper management, training and supervision, quality labor is possible anywhere in the world. Ask the German executives and foremen living in Mexico about their labor force. Believe it or not, Mexico is important to our economy!
Your inference that outsourcing detracts from quality is also misguided. Increasingly, THERE IS NO SUCH THING as an all-American product anymore. Same goes for Japan and Europe. The global market is so complex, communications and transportation ever so much faster, that companies MUST outsource to survive. And as arjay1 said, quality control is the key.
Vocus said buying a new car is a crapshoot. He's right, and if you spend enough time reading these forums, you'll realize that EVERY manufacturer spits out a lemon once in a while, and the unfortunate consumer who gets that unit will end up hating his car and vowing that everything about that company is bad.
But, most VW buyers these days are extremely happy. I test drove many small sedans before buying the Jetta - Protoge, Civic, Accord, Focus, Stratus, Neon, Taurus, Corolla, Camry, Escort, Contour, Altima, Elantra. I was impressed by the Protoge, Focus and Accord, but the Jetta, by far, exceeded all in BUILD QUALITY. Darn if those Mexicans didn't put together the tightest, most solid ride in the group!! Given style, performance, economy and fun factor, I chose the Jetta and I have not been sorry.
As for service, yes, VW doesn't have the best reputation, but it seems like customer satisfaction is improving - goes along with puting out a better product. Personally, I've had excellent service. Dealers have gone out of their way to get things done with my convenience in mind. They've given me discounts on accessories. I gave them synthetic oil, and when they mistakenly put in regular oil, they changed it again, and gave me a free tire rotation and balance for the extra 15 minutes it took. True, I haven't had to deal with a faulty O2 sensor or a bad tranny, so IF anything like that should happen, we'll see if they maintain their good record with me.
My point to you is this: ask questions, ask for information, ask for clarification about rumors, but DO NOT go mislabeling foreign countries, inferring stereotypes on their people, and promoting incorrect economic hypotheses.
Any solutions?
Thanks!
I know of the PA plant because my first VW was on '86 Golf and it was made there. 15 years ago you would see articles on this plant in car mags or the paper. It was a disaster. My Golf was fine, I never had any major problems but many others did.
You don't need to talk to me about Chrysler, I can give you the laundry list of problems with our '96 Town & Country mini-van.
Yes, you are idealistic if you expect every new car to be problem free. I expect "MY" new car to be problem free but I know that they all can't be. That is the crap shoot! I want the perfect car and let someone else get the one with a glitch. But that is what warranty is for. You may have a problem and hopefully you will have a pleasant dealership experience and all things will be straightened out.
Riswani, I am not so sure about your reasoning for the lack of a '92 model for the Jetta. There was a strike involved but the Pueblo, Mexico plant was also producing a sub-standard product back then, according to VW. VW actually stepped in and shut the plant down until quality standards and QC could be reworked. That is the reason for no '92 model year. Since then, the quality of the Jetta has improved greatly.
It takes commitment to shut a plant for the better part of year to make quality improvements. (Maybe GM and Chrysler could learn something here!)
If you base your opinion of a cars quality on the Edmunds bulletin board then you will learn that all cars are crap. The internet is the great [non-permissible content removed] and moan forum. You would think that 9 out of 10 cars sold are lemons.
Go check the quality for yourself of all the cars you are interested in. Look at the fit and finish, take them for extended test drives and decide for yourself.
Any solutions?
Thanks!
Good point Arjay1. The people who are happy with their cars are mostly driving them right now. There's actually pretty good reviews for Jettas on Autoweb.com
I don't know what IMO stands for? I'm sorry about being offensive, it comes from my debating background. I'll try harder this time to be nice. Thank god we're not discussing something important!
>Mexico is not a third-world country.
I consider it to be. Okay, better way of describing Mexico would be as a poor and under-privileged country vs. US as a rich and privileged country. Better?
>Why don't you go ahead and stereotype Mexican workers as lazy and sub-standard?
You're making an assumption about me making assumptions about Mexican workers. Oh, the ironing is delicious. (Anyone realize that was a Bart Simpson reference? I just love that show!)
I don't know if you know, but there was a strike recently(last year of two) where the workers tried to get better pay and working conditions and the government gave it's support to VW management. I believe the strike was broken, but I don't know specifics.
And I agree companies "MUST outsource to survive. And as arjay1 said, quality control is the key."
Vocus is right, I agree too.
>But, most VW buyers these days are extremely happy.
I wanna be one of those people!
How long have you had it, how many problems? Also, isn't the tightest of the car a sign of it's engineering and not assembly?
>My point to you is this: ask questions, ask for information, ask for clarification about rumors, but DO NOT go mislabeling foreign countries, inferring stereotypes on their people, and promoting incorrect economic hypotheses.
Whoa, I didn't intend to infer anything negative about people in under-privileged countries. Just inferred that something was wrong with supposedly quality manufacturers rely on cheap labour, though I agree the VW can't survive in the market place unless it does that.
I actually would proudly announce that if people of privilege countries were as intelligent and brave as those of the under-privilege countries -- for example the Zapatista movement in Chiapas, Mexico -- then the entire world and human race would be better off. Heck, now I'm really going off topic......this idealism can be annoying at times.
Just found another place too, where you can do some reading about safety. The Jetta got a GOOD rating, the best you can get, and with NO damage to the rear bumper if you hit it a metal pole going 5 mph in reverse. The Protege had a ACCEPTABLE rating with some pain in your right foot, ouch! And almost $3000 dollars in damage if you hit that same pole at 5 mph. And the Mirage? Talk about real pain here. It received a POOR rating, the worst you can get, with lower leg injuries and possible head injuries.
I don't know what others think, but hey, I don't want to die or suffer in car crash, and if that cost a little bit more and a little inconvenience at a dealership service department, then so be it.
And no damage to the rear VW bumper while you have to cough up 3000 to get that Mazda fixed? Ah, that German engineering, too sweet.
2001 Jetta 1.8T, silver exterior, black leather interior, luxury package, sports suspension, CD, and I got them to take off the 17" wheels and put on 16" wheels (better in the snow).
Anyways, I absolutely love this car ! It is so much fun to drive.
Thanks for those who commented on my previous postings.
fischda, you said "I know we're supposed to be civil, but your postings are offensive,"
And now I can't find where I took a snap at you or anything. I've had this comment from other internet people in the past, and rightly so, and I just assumed you were right and didn't bother to read my previous posts.
But, I read and can't find the offensive parts? Was it only the complaint about manufacturing in the "third world"? Was it in the tone that I wrote my complaint? Please clarify.
Thanks
**In addition to a lower price tag, the EuroVan will come with a more powerful engine. A new four-valve-per-cylinder version of Volkswagen's VR6 will offer a peak horsepower of 201 (versus 140 in the previous model year). Just as importantly, this 2.8-liter multi-valve engine has also increased the torque for 2001. The engine now creates a peak torque of 181 lb-ft. at 2500 rpm, up from 177 lb-ft.**
Looks like they are finally updating the VR6. Perhaps when I am back in the market for a new VW it will be in the Jetta coupe or Cabrio!!
Hope everyone is having fun with their Jets!
Just BE SURE and read the break-in pages in your manual and follow them to a (ahem) T. It'll be tempting to nail it and feel the turbo-kick, but please resist until she's broken in.
It'll be worth the wait and your new baby will give you years of great service for it.
Drive it like ya stole it. ;-)
-Jim
http://www.bluelagoonjetta.com
http://www.jettaownersclub.org
Markulies - I'm in Dayton too. Bought my 2000 GLS 1.8T in DC, but moved here. Did you buy from Frank Z? Was it a good experience? I go there for service and I like them.
Akangl - Which AFB were you on when you got hit? I'm in the AF at Wright-Patterson AFB, OH. I can't believe someone on base hit you and left - that's lower than whale sh-t!!
I am not as pleased as I thought with my Protege. My best friend (who has driven it many times since new) even says it's starting to not drive as good as new (only 37K in 18 months). Not any major repairs or anything, but now I am stuck with a car that squeaks in the dash and is only worth $6500 after 18 months and 37K. Also, paid $13,700+ neg. equity from last trade. Payoff is like $13K, so I am sooo screwed!
Vocus......I know how you feel about being upside down. I was big time upside down in the 99 Nissan Quest that I traded in on the Jetta. I owed $29,300 and the van was only worth $19,500. Luckily we also had a fairly new snowmobile that was worth $4200 and we had $5800 in cash to put down. We leased the Jetta so we could eat up the rest of the neg. Good luck to you, I know the feeling.
If you do a search on "Monsoon audio", you get a number of hits.
On another note, does anyone know if the tape deck can be replaced, I heard that it will mess up some stuff if its taken out. I am either going to put an aftermarket CD player in the car or spend the $280 for the factory in dash CD player. I don't have the Monsoon system. Anyone replace the cassette player in their Jetta?
Funny thing about Dayton dealers. I've talked with salesmen at both White-Allen and Frank-Z. I have to concur with the previous comments; White-Allen VW/Audi/Porsche salesmen acted as if I were beneath them.
I saw the new Jetta wagon at the Detroit Auto Show last month. I'm trying to convince my wife that 2 kids can fit in the back.
- Mike
I am looking to buy a jetta in the next few months. Because of my commute to school and back I am considering getting a TDI. Unfortunatly the dealer didn't have any TDI's when I went to go look at a standard 2.0. My question to you is, my parents are worreid about letting me get a turbo (they are only paying for a portion of the car, I am paying more than them) because of the bad experiences that had in late 80's volvos. I keep telling them about how much better the new ones are here, but the are still worried.
Now my question is, are the Turbo's in the TDI covered by the B2B 2y24k or the powertrain 10y100k warrenty?
Thanks,
David
landrumdh - yes the 10/100,000 covers the TDI engine. First, the turbo is a LOW pressure unit, most unlike the Volvo ones of the 80's. It will be very reliable. The 10 year warranty even includes the timing belt change - that's awesome!
c1rybick - the Jetta test reviews say the handling is above average for a car in its class, yet there is some body roll when cornering hard. Keep in mind these guys really work a car over when they test them. I find the stock suspension to be excellent compared to others. I'm not knocking your driving skills or maturity, but young teen drivers tend to drive above their ability especially when driving friends around, so I never recommend performance cars for them. So drive safe and in control. You'll love the Jetta!
I believe the engine design of the 1.8T is older than the VR6 is. But the 1.8 has been in the Audi for a couple years now, and I haven't heard of problems with it.
Turbos: Both turbos (TDI and 1.8T) are low-pressure ones. They are also covered by the 10/100 warranty.