Volkswagen Jetta 2005 and earlier

vocus

I know, that was dumb of me wasn't it? But, the 2001 GL models don't have power windows, that's why I asked. Another example of doing too many things at once..

anonymous02

That wouldn't be Patrick Saab/VW, would it?

blueguydotcom

Ing bought a GL and then complains about the acceleration of the Jetta? ROFL That's like buying chile peppers and bellyaching they're spicy! Hello, you bought a 2.0 engine, what did you expect Ferrari-like speed?

If he was driving a 10 year old Honda, it was almost certainly as slow as the Jetta. Unless he had a dearly departed Civic Si or Prelude Si. Otherwise, ing went from one slow, boring car to another slow, boring car.

justin

the only way he had a 2001 Jetta GL w/power windows is MAYBE if he bought it outside of the U.S.

and a 2001 Jetta GL 2.0 would certainly keep up with a similiarly priced and equipped 2001 Accord. not to mention a 10 year old Accord....

some of these posts just seem really fishy to me....

hoodornament

No, its Shrewsbury Motors (VW/Saab) in Shrewsbury, NJ. I must say, they have been an excellent dealer for the year that I have had my VW. This of course does not include their "rip off" prices for scheduled maintenance, but I have found an alternative in Mayo Auto Clinic in Little Silver. They work on all German cars, and will cost only half of that of the stealership for items on the scheduled maint. (they will stamp my book).

mynewvw

I'm sure there a lots of people who own VW's and don't have any problems. But I can only say that reading some of the posts in Jetta Problems and based on my own experience with my 1 year old car that I don't feel too good about my purchase. My figures may not be correct but I think that Jetta Problems has 2327 posts where Camry Problems has 1191 - about 1/2. Of course some of that could be because the Jetta forum may simply have more active participants. One would have to analyze more to get a firmer answer. But according to some of the posts here, CR changed their rating from good to poor. CR shows for the 2002 Jetta Wagon a Forecast for Predicted Reliability as a solid black dot. I'm not positive what that means, but I don't like it.

As for "boring", let me just say that saying a car is boring does not make it so. Boring is a subjective thing, and to me, the most exciting part of a car is its reliability. I could care less about tiptronic transmissions or transmissions that adapt (I want my transmission to shift the same always and I don't want to add anything that can break - complexity I don't want). Plus, I have driven a Toyota Avalon and let me tell you it wasn't boring. It was the best ride I've had.

I do love the ride of the Jetta and I love the look and feel. But reliability is paramount, and my experience combined with the experiences of others who have posted leave me to conclude that I'd rather get another car.

justin

so, why don't you have a Toyota? i mean, from what i am reading, it seems like you want one. stop typing and get rid of that unreliable VW! all odds are in your favor. you said so yourself! 1. lots of people post bad things about Jettas. 2. you have had problems with your Jetta. 3. and, most importantly, Consumer Reports says Jetta = bad, Toyota = good.

let us know which Toyota you found was a suitable replacement for your Jetta. good luck with whatever you get!

mynewvw

If you have nothing to add to the conversation, maybe it's you who should "stop typing".

gokings

I'm thinking of buying a 2001 Jetta GLS 1.8 Turbo from a friend. 20k, great condition. Reading all of these messages, I'm wondering if everyone hates their Jetta, or this is just a negative sampling? Any POSITIVE feedback out there?

hoodornament

It boils down to this, if you are the type who is passionate about cars, get the VW. If it is simply a tool to get you from point A to point B, go with Toyota or Honda. VWs give you the little things that make driving fun for those who appreciate these things (comfort, peppy, stylish).If the average person has 2 problems with their VW per year, is 2 trips to the dealer gonna kill you? Not if you love your car.

gokings

That's where I'm torn. My commute to work is minimal, but I make a big road trip every year (800+ miles)and it's during that sort of trip that I want to be in a car I love driving. My little old Honda is great for the commuter car it is, but also want something that can go the distance and is safer (my current car has no airbags, etc). Thanks for your feedback.

blueguydotcom

If you want safe, the Jetta definitely fits that bill. Especially if it's a later 2001 with the curtain airbags. I've been t-boned in the golf platform (what the Jetta is built on) by a big truck doing 40 and I walked away without a scratch. That night sold me on the solid, safe design of VW/German cars. It's one thing I fear giving up when I eventually defect back to Japanese cars. I flat out do not feel safe in any Japanese car.

newcar31

"I flat out do not feel safe in any Japanese car."

I'd feel a hellaluva lot safer in an LS 430 than a Jetta.

blueguydotcom

Boring is a subjective thing, and to me, the most exciting part of a car is its reliability.

Odd, but honest opinion. I'm fairly certain one doesn't rush out to the car excited that it will start. Maybe I'm odd, but I've never met one person visibly excited by reliability. "Yahoo, I can't wait to get near my civic, it's so reliable."

I could care less about tiptronic transmissions or transmissions that adapt (I want my transmission to shift the same always and I don't want to add anything that can break - complexity I don't want).

So buy a manual. If you buy a car with an automatic it will break and it will be expensive to maintain and repair. That's a simple fact.

Plus, I have driven a Toyota Avalon and let me tell you it wasn't boring. It was the best ride I've had.

Okay, obviously, you bought the wrong car when you picked up a Jetta (unless you got a 2.0 with the standard suspension). German cars are not loafing Buick-wannabe Japansese full-size sedans. You're comparing a 6 passenger vehicle built for empty-nesters to a car squarely aimed at the youngest car-buying group in the auto industry (VW owns the young crowd percentage). Different niches/segments have very different needs and desires of their cars.

I do love the ride of the Jetta and I love the look and feel.

Obviously, ride isn't all that important as just seconds ago you mentioned the Avalon as being nigh perfect.

But reliability is paramount, and my experience combined with the experiences of others who have posted leave me to conclude that I'd rather get another car.


Your experience should be the only one that matters. I don't care if Vocus has a million problems with his car or Justin's vehicle is perfect. The only VW that matters to me is parked in my garage. I knew, as I'm sure you did, that VW's are anything but reliable. You took the chance and it bit you. It bit me too. By the same token, there's not another car under 24k that I'd consider owning over my VW. Not one. I enjoy driving too much.

blueguydotcom

I'd feel a hellaluva lot safer in an LS 430 than a Jetta.

That's you. Lexus cars feel like tin cans to me. I feel really vulnerable in 95% of the cars out there (I only feel safe in German and Swede cars) and I feel downright paranoid every miserable second I ride in a deathtrap SUV.

newcar31

"Lexus cars feel like tin cans to me"

An LS 430 feels like a "tin can"? Tough customer.

mynewvw

>Odd, but honest opinion. I'm fairly certain one doesn't rush out to the car excited that it will start. Maybe I'm odd, but I've never met one person visibly excited by reliability.

It is odd _to you_. Some people get off on reliability (probably a lot more than you think). I don't get excited about the car starting though, but I do get excited about the car starting year after year after year without a problem (especially in cold weather please).

I'm not really sure what people mean about an exciting drive. Actually, I think a lot of it is canned hooey.

>>So buy a manual. If you buy a car with an automatic it will break and it will be expensive to maintain and repair. That's a simple fact.

You miss the point. I like simplicity. My problem wasn't with an automatic transmission, I just would rather not have the added features. I believe that the more features, the more likely something will go wrong. I like my automatic transmission real stupid - at least then I know if it's sick.

>>Okay, obviously, you bought the wrong car when you picked up a Jetta (unless you got a 2.0 with the standard suspension). German cars are not loafing Buick-wannabe Japansese full-size sedans.

I can appreciate more than one kind of ride and different styles. I love the Jetta ride and I love the Avalon ride even though they are very different to me. You seem to think along with many others that we are entitled to enjoy only one style and ride or that they are somehow mutually exclusive. Both have their place in my book. I know it's not cool to like a smooth ride, but I'm not cool.

blueguydotcom

I don't get excited about the car starting though, but I do get excited about the car starting year after year after year without a problem (especially in cold weather please).

Doesn't that contradict excitement? Excitement is something that excites or arouses an emotional response. If one must reflect upon years and years of reliability to be excited, that's sorta saying, "I'll be lukewarm about my purchase for 3-4 years but from that point, assuming it's reliable, va-va-voom." So until your toyota has proven its mettle, we're to assume you'll just feel sorta blaise about it? "Yeah, that's my car. It's okay. It's reliable thus far...but ya never know."

I'm not really sure what people mean about an exciting drive. Actually, I think a lot of it is canned hooey.

Canned hooey? To each his own. Not many cars can take a tight 270 degree declining on-ramp at 75, hit the bottom of the corner and explode to 100 in a blink. That to me is exciting (I've been driving for 18 years, so I doubt that's gonna change soon). Very few cars can do that. I know neither a Jetta nor an Avalon can pull off that feat.

You seem to think along with many others that we are entitled to enjoy only one style and ride or that they are somehow mutually exclusive. Both have their place in my book. I know it's not cool to like a smooth ride, but I'm not cool.

No, actually, I want a supple ride that absorbs bumps (something my beam suspension on my Jetta can't do), yet handle corners and switchbacks with ease (something no jetta can do). For my money BMW and Infiniti's G series are the closest to the perfect mix of smooth and razor sharp all at once.

To each his own. Just seems like you're desirous of two things one doesn't find in a Jetta: blvd cruiser handling/ride and reliability. Seems you should have known that pre-purchase.

venus537

justin:
there's nothing fishy about a 4 cyl 2001 accord outpacing a 2.0l equipped jetta. not that either car is anything to write home about in terms of acceleration. my friend has a 10 year old honda civic and while it's pretty slow, it still runs pretty good. i can't talk him into a jetta, but hopefully i can get him to get a v6 accord instead of an element.

blue:
do you put any value into crash test results? i would say the jetta is extremely safe for its size but far from the safest car against some larger american and japanese cars.

chmeeee

I gotta say, I love my car. I have put on 17,000 miles so far, and have even seen a VW service department. Its fun to drive, the gas mileage is insane (TDI), and its so comfortable.

I say go with what fits you best, don't worry about what everybody else tells you to buy. Also, you are definitely going to hear from the small contingent of people with problems on this board, nobody says to themselves "I better go register on Edmunds today so I can tell everybody how my car works fine!"

Good luck with your decision!

mdaffron

"... nobody says to themselves, 'I better go register on Edmunds today so I can tell everybody how my car works fine!'"

Funny, I did just that two and a half years ago and I'm still doing it. Believe it or not, there are some discussions on the Town Hall that are NOT filled with whines and complaints from people who are dissatisfied with their cars. In fact, I know of one where the host has to keep reeling folks back in because they've gotten bored talking about how fun and reliable their cars are.

Meade

P.S. Didn't you mean, "have NEVER even seen a VW service department?"

chmeeee

Actually, I did that too. What I am saying though is that a lot of non-car-enthusiast-types will register at a place like this to complain, but if their car works fine, they would never bother.

I suppose I saw it, as I walked past to the parts department to pick up my oil filter. I have never been there however! :-D

mdaffron

But after reading this discussion and the "Jetta Problems" discussion for more than a year now, I must say that in my 2-1/2 years of Town Hall membership, the _KIND_ of problems being discussed here (windows falling into doors due to a known but ignored -- until just recently -- design flaw, coil packs going bad, cars assembled so poorly they rattle right off the showroom floor, etc.) and the frequency that people come in and complain about them, show me that Volkswagen has a long way to go in the reliability department. No car company that's as old as VW has any excuse to release these problems to their customers -- especially in a design as long-lived as the Jetta. And in addition to reliability, let's talk about accountability. To release a fix for these year-old window problems without having the inventory to perform the fix is inexcusable. And now Paul's car is spending another month -- or who knows how long -- in the shop because of yet another well-known and documented problem that once again VW doesn't have the parts inventory to fix? This smacks of Daewoo, not the well-respected Volkswagen brand. Come on, VW. These complaints are starting to read like a broken record. And there's no way this is good for VW -- how much are they paying to keep Paul in a rental car while they wait for a couple-hundred-dollar coil pack they've got to install for free under warranty?

Meade

fish8

It sounds like mynewvw is the perfect customer for Toyota or Honda.....though, from personal experience, Honda's reliability is not all it made out to be. Especially since our '98 Accords transmission went out at approx. 85,000 and would of cost over $5,000 to replace. Now THATS RELIABILITY.......

Good points BlueGuy..........

Also, an Avalon not Boring ????????? Isn't that a contradiction???
To me...cars don't get anymore boring. But thats just my opinion

newcar31

Every company makes a lemon from time to time and you are going to here more complaints than praises on a forum like this.

OK, I said it so no one else has to.

ppower

Don't you mean 3 year old? People have been having problems with them for 3 years! It has taken VW this long just to get a fix and over 2 years just to admit there is a problem.

Ppower

mdaffron

If that's the case, then the relative number of complaints should be fairly even across the Town Hall -- as long as they're concerning cars that have similar production numbers.

Not so here.

And face it -- how long have cars had power windows? It's one thing to have a piece of new technology crap out and be corrected with a recall -- but the clip that holds a window to its regulator? What's next, VW? Trunks gonna start falling off?

Meade

P.S. Ppower -- Thanks for helping me make my point. I'll give an example without citing the kind of car I drive and starting a flame war. My car manufacturer issued a recall for its own coil packs about three months ago. It took everyone on the discussion for our car by surprise because no one had had any coil pack problems. I took my car in for an oil change and they installed the new pack while I waited, and this was one day after I received the recall notice in the mail. The oil change and part swap took less than an hour.

Sure, all cars have problems now and then. But some car companies recognize these problems and offer to correct them, while others cross their fingers and hope they can get away with it.

newcar31

I was just kidding, but many people here would say something like that and not be kidding.

vocus

So what made you get a VW in the first place? Surely you knew they weren't as paramount for their reliability as a Toyota is going to be. What made you take the chance if you love Toyotas so much?

vocus

A Honda Civic has top crash test results. The car still feels like a tin can. The two are not completely related. If you don't believe me, slam the door of a Civic and then the door of a Jetta.

I also know someone who was broadsided in a Jetta by a semi that was travelling at about 45mph upon impact, through an intersection. The car was totalled upon impact and spun around, of course. The driver walked away with a cut knee.

Another person (saw pics on Vortex) had an MKIII Jetta GLX that lost control, slid on its side, flipped over, and crashed through a fence. The driver walked away from the car, and even was able to take pictures of the car on its roof. And this car was a 1995 even! Show me a 1995 small car (Mazda, Honda, Toyota) that can claim that.

vocus

I have to agree that Japanese cars do feel like tin cans. I rode in my co-worker's 99 Civic yesterday, the car has 76.5K miles on it and is an EX automatic coupe. When shutting the door, it reverberated through the entire car, this cheap tinny "clang" I used to get with the last 2 Japanese cars I owned. The door lock lever even felt cheap to handle to me. What a turn-off.

I have found that the solid feel of the Jetta cannot be matched by anything in the under-$25K class.

newcar31

"I have to agree that Japanese cars do feel like tin cans."

Maybe some Japanese cars feel like tin cans, but not all of them. Blueguy feels that Lexus cars feel like tin cans. My Aunt and Uncle have an LS 430 and a GS400. IMO, neither of those cars feel like tins cans. The LS430 feels as solid as a tank, and feels 100 times more substantial than any Jetta I've ever ridden in or driven. To say that a Lexus feels like a tin can is funny, especially coming from a Jetta owner. Seriously, if Blueguy thinks the LS430 feels like a tin can, then anything short of a Maybach feels like a tin can too.

mdaffron

The 2002 Honda Civic got a five-star rating in NHTSA's side-impact crash test for both front and rear seat occupants.

The 2002 Jetta got four stars for both front and rear seat occupants.

Both cars were four-door sedans and both had side-impact air bags.

Meade

newcar31

"I have found that the solid feel of the Jetta cannot be matched by anything in the under-$25K class."

You obviously haven't driven the new Mazda6 yet.

vocus

No, I said ones in the same price arena do. I have never driven a Lexus actually (not yet anyway), so I can't vouch for them. But just about anything in the same price range as the Jetta does feel like a tin can.

mdaffron

And you don't even have to drive it. I've sat in one at my dealership -- it's a bank vault in comparison to the 626 it's replacing.

Paul -- the 6 IS in the same price range as the Jetta. It starts around $19K and the most expensive one at my dealership is $24,300.

Meade

chmeeee

the Keywords are "under 25k"

vocus

I haven't driven the 6 yet, no. I hear it is a pretty nice ride. I have sat in one before, but it's been too long so I can't remember if I liked it or not.

Chmeeee: Thank you. I was referring to the compact/subcompact car class. The 6 is a mid-size car which competes with the Passat. And, might I add, the Passat was the TARGET for the new 6. It's nice not to have to drive around a copy of an original...

mdaffron

Yep. Sure is.

Meade

newcar31

So? You can get a very nicely equipped 6 for less than $25K, even if you pay sticker. I drove a 6 loaded with just about everything but an automatic. It was about $25K. If you wait, most likely they'll be even cheaper.

newcar31

"And, might I add, the Passat was the TARGET for the new 6. It's nice not to have to drive around a copy of an original..."

Paul, Paul, Paul. Geez. It's called "benchmarking". EVERY car company does it. Even VW. With the 6, Mazda benchmarked the 3 series, Passat, Accord, and Camry. The Mazda6 drives better than the Jetta, has more room, is similiarly priced, feels more solid, and should be more reliable (that can't be hard to do). It is NOT the "boring-point-a-to-point-b" car that you guys always complain about. Anyone shopping for a Jetta OR a Passat right now would be an absolute IDIOT not to check out the 6.

vocus

I can't vouch for the 6 yet. I haven't driven one. I am thinking about going one day this week, provided the snow doesn't hold me back. Also, anyone paying MSRP for a Mazda has to be out of their tree...

And you can call it whatever you want. It seems that most new cars coming to the market now all want to eminate VW's interior design. Just remember where you saw it first.

newcar31

"And you can call it whatever you want. It seems that most new cars coming to the market now all want to eminate VW's interior design. Just remember where you saw it first."

Good thing that's the only thing from VW that they're eminating, er...uh...benchmarking.

fish8

My dad drives a GS400 and it is no tin can.

BLUEGUY: Have you ever been in a Lexus GS or LS?

mdaffron

"interior design?"

How the heck can you say anyone's emanating VW's "interior design?" Just how many "design choices" are there when you're outfitting the interior of a car? Lessee here -- two buckets up front and a bench in the rear, a center console, some vents, climate controls and radio, a glovebox ... there aren't that many things you can change.

I guess you're going to tell us that the designers of the 6 imitated the "interior design" of the Jetta's trunk too?

Meade

P.S. Whom did VW benchmark when they redesigned the Jetta? Just asking.

newcar31

I don't think it's the interior configuration that Mazda benchmarked. I think it was the quality of materials, such as the soft touch dashboard that Mazda benchmarked. To be honest, I don't really see that much VW influence in the Mazda6's interior. The soft touch dash material in the 6 is more like a BMW 3 series dash than a Jetta's. At night, the illumination could be mistaken for a BMW, not VW. You could say that Mazda copied Audi with the metal bezels around the gauges, but the RX7 had those a long time ago. The only tacky thing IMO in the Mazda6 is the fake metal trim, but it's not that big of a deal to me considering the rest of the package. I just think it makes Paul feel better to think that Mazda outright copied the Passat. They may have taken a few ideas here and there (and what's wrong with that?), but IMO, the Mazda6 is original enough for me. Besides, EVERY car company copied Ford when they decided to make cars that everyone could afford way back in the day.

With regards to the "tin can" debate, I'll just say this: I know that there are Japanese cars that feel kinda tinny but at the same time, this whole "teutonic, german engineered, solidness" that people tout in here is partially true and partially VW marketing. The Jetta is a solid car, but I wouldn't go so far as to say that the LS430 is a "tin can" because it's Japanese. Fact is, the Jetta is tin can compared to an LS430, or just about any Lexus for that matter.

mdaffron

My 1980 Saab 900 GLi had the same soft-touch dash. Saab also pioneered front-wheel drive and turbocharging ... so you could say VW "benchmarked" Saab in those respects. As for trim around gauges, my 1978 Toyota Corolla had faux chrome plastic around its round speedo, tach and clock. Trends come and go.

BTW, my Saab's doors shut like a bank vault too -- but its solidness and crashworthiness did nothing to help the fact that in 60,000 miles I had two blown main engine seals, a Bosch K-Jetronic fuel injection system replacement, faulty brake rotors that failed during a trip in the mountains causing more than $600 damage to my front wheels, a manual transmission that lost a bearing while I sat at a traffic light and tore itself to pieces (three weeks in the shop and $1,200 in 1980s dollars), a constantly leaking heater core, a faulty steering rack and turn signals that wouldn't cancel. I could not believe, when my water pump failed, that that particular engine had an internal, gear-driven pump that required partial ENGINE REMOVAL to replace. $450 for a water pump. I finally got rid of the car at 60,000 miles when a mechanic told me the funny rattling noise I was hearing under my hood was my timing CHAIN going bad -- a "rare" occurrence which would require taking the top half of the engine off and cost me about $1,000 in parts and labor. He advised I should sell the car instead.

Think I would've traded tinny doors for a car that spent more time on the road than in the shop -- and constantly draining my wallet.

Meade

target3

IMO.

Lexus' may indeed by good vehicles.

However, I will never buy a vehicle from a company that has to create a whole new name in the U.S. market so that they can charge more for both the vehicle and for maintenance, service, and parts (i.e. Lexus, Acura).

Has anyone else also noticed the new Lexus commercials? They are no longer marketing the vehicle. Rather, consumers need to buy Lexus for "image" and "lifestyle".

We got some snow this morning in Minnesota, so I could test the ABS. I also checked the Michelin website to see if the tires that came with the vehicle were Michelin low-end or high-end. It appears that they put some of their best tires on the vehicle (for 17" wheels).

blueguydotcom

Venus: do you put any value into crash test results? i would say the jetta is extremely safe for its size but far from the safest car against some larger american and japanese cars

I put a little bit into the crash test results but in the US they don't test offset crashes (which most collisions are). If I'm not mistaken, the Jetta is a four or five-star car for the driver in all categories. Regardless of the test results, it's a feeling that's far more important to me than the actuality. i've seen that Civics and WRXs hold up extremely well in outrageous crashes at insane speeds. doesn't mean I feel safe riding in friend's tinny WRXs and Civics though. It's a gut-level thing, not a logic thing.

Newcar, I haven't driven a 6 yet, but i look forward to doing so. I'm still not sold on it though because it is afterall a Mazda (American and Japanese design, eek!).

Fish: have I been in a Lexus LS or GS? A better question is what cars have I not driven. At this point as far as luxury it's limited to the top line MBs, the current M3/M5 and Lexus SC430. I'm a car nut, through and through and I'll take any chance to drive any car I can get my hands on. as I said before, I do not feel safe in any Japanese or American (you can add Korean if you like but why bother) car. Any. It's not based on empirical evidence. It's just based on a queasy feeling I get as soon as I close a door. Mind you I drove a Japanese car for years and it wasn't until about two years ago that I suddenly felt unsafe in anything Japanese/American.

protege_fan

Because Jetta owners can talk about other cars all day long, but as soon as somebody uses another car to make a remark that even slightly besmirches the Jetta's "good" name, then it's, "Let's just talk about Jettas."