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Comments
As far as those in this room with their whining about "I didn't buy a Jetta because I wanted a reliable car", that's crap. I have had 2 problems with the VW (rattle and a dead radio). I was treated better at VW than any dealer (especially Mazda). I will gladly take my Jetta over the Mazda though.
Also, a friend of mine has a 2001 Protege ES 5-speed. He drove my Jetta 1.8T automatic and loved it. He said he didn't get a Jetta the first time for the same reason I did not. A shame, to drive a car you don't really like because you are scared of something that might happen.
What's crap? My decision to buy a Protege instead of a Jetta because they have a better reputation for reliability is crap? Sorry if that is a major factor when I buy a car. I don't appreciate being told that my decision is crap. Really, I didn't buy a Jetta because IT was supposedly crap. I don't buy crap. Sorry.
"Every car has problems, no matter what label goes on the hood"
How many times has that been posted on this board? That statement means absolutely nothing. It's like saying all cars have engines. Really, when are you guys and gals going to comprehend the fact that ON AVERAGE, Jettas have MORE problems than the average car and many people know this and make their buying decisions accordingly. Who wants a car that is notorious for problems? Not me. Vocus- just because YOU had more problems with YOUR Protege doesn't mean that the Jetta is more reliable. YOUR experience was obviously not the norm.
"A shame, to drive a car you don't really like because you are scared of something that might happen."
I love my car and I wouldn't trade it on a Jetta unless I could sell the Jetta immediately.
People are quick to flame around here, as you can see above... so sometimes it's hard to tell when someone is kidding. :^)
vocus: I bought my SI with 34k and have had neither a dead radio or a rattle. Same with our 96 EX with 107k. fxashun's logic is that if buy a car with alot of miles on it anything that's going to break has already broken. Worked for us so far but then again we only buy Honda/Acuras and Toyota/Lexus. With a sprinkle of Nissan and Mazda. The one time we strayed from our usual purchases was with a 00 Silverado. BIG mistake.
Also, while at Carmax we had plenty of opportunities to drive Jettas. The first one was a 96 GTI (this was in early 99) that did not want to go in first gear. We had a 97 Jetta that rattled itself to death. He tried to drive a 97 Golf but it didn't even make it out of 285. He works for the finance arm of our dealer and has gotten more than one call from a Jetta owner that can't keep it running but still have to pay for it because the resale value sucks. If you think the resale value of a Jetta that runs is bad think of the resale value of one that doesn't. On the plus side, once we got that 96 GTI VR6 in first gear OOOOOH was it FUN.
However, I LOVE my SI and I don't have to wonder if I got one of the "bad" ones. 36,000 miles and still solid as a rock with no rattles. So is our 96 with 107k. So is our Lexus but that's a different story.
according to consumer report's April issue, the jetta's reliability is better than the civic's (by a small margin if i'm reading the graphs correctly). the current civic's reliability is just awful by honda's standards.
rickrover:
it's the RSX type s that will blow the doors of the jetta 1.8t. better shifter. better handling. but i do prefer the jetta much more than the RSX.
ZZ79: And as far as reselling, that doesn't seem to be a problem around this area for some reason (MD/DC/VA). I posted before that I had the same VW dealer that I bought my car from offer me $22K for it, and it's got 13K on it right now, and it MSRPed for $24,675 new, 5 MONTHS ago. You and I both got hosed on a Protege for resale, so we both know how that feels. Now there's a car with poor resale value, if you ask me.
I did not see one category where the Jetta was better than the Civic. On page 6 they called the Civic the best small car. On page 16, the Civic receives a better ranking for safety. On page 26 the new for 2001 Civic ranked higher than the Jetta even with it's first year problems. The Jetta has been made for almost 4 years now .. you would think VW could get it's gremlins out before now.
You are right about saying that the Jetta should be compared to the Accord though. It actually has a higher base price and top price than the Accord. $16,800-$25,500 for the Jetta while the Accord is $15,500-$25,300. But the Accord is a bigger car that has had impeachable reliability throughout the years. While the Jetta is smaller than a Civic and has been the posterchild for extended warranties.
Resale is our 93 Civic that we bought with 128k on it for $3000, drove it for a year, put 15,000 miles on it and still got $2750 for it when it was time to trade it back in. Our 92 Integra we bought for $2750 put a little work into and sold it for $5000. Even my 99 Accord which we bought for $18,900 and kept for 2 years and 40,000 miles only lost $4,200 and I got the 01 Accord V6 coupe for invoice + $500 in October of 2000.
Also, in this area (like I said before) I could sell my car right now for $21K cash. Jettas go like hotcakes around here, VERY popular.
CarMax also quoted me low trade values on 2 other cars I had (both the Proteges I had). I got $1000 more for the first one, and $2000 more for the second one trading them in. Also, got $2000 more selling the other car (1993 Bonneville) privately. So I tend not to take Carmax's numbers too seriously.
Also, I took the Jetta there just to see what they said. You are right, they offered $17,000 for it. They MUST be smoking something, or think I am.
LOL @ being jealous of a Jetta. I have much bigger fish to fry like an Acura CL-S, possibly a 97+ 5-series (again reliability is an issue though), and a 98+ GS300. I actually came over here to see the guy who was selling his SI and see what he wanted for it. I stayed because it's fun. Life without conflict just wouldn't be much fun.
Besides, I never really bashed the Jetta. I just said it was small, overpriced, and unreliable.
Please let's not start to tell people that they HAVE to own a Jetta to participate in this particular discussion. Please step down off your high horse. What about prospective buyers? Do you believe that they should not be allowed to post here simply because they do not have a Jetta??
I post here because I enjoy talking about cars and I know people that are interested in this car. I think I've contirbuted to this board by asking questions and even answering some questions when others here have skipped over the posts.
But to be in your little club, for all intents and purposes, I have a '91 Jetta GL...it's old, worn down, but for the most part it's a good mode of transport.
I don't think ZZ79 has gone overboard. Perhaps the comparisons should be made elsewhere, but I think her points have been rational and without malice.
of course, prospective buyers of new Jettas should be in this forum asking questions. what they don't need is some Mazda or Toyota or Chevy owner answering the questions for them. of course, anyone can post in here. i don't make the rules. but, i am allowed to state that i find it a little funny. after all, everyone else seems to have license to say what they want.
"hi, i don't actually have a Jetta, but i know it is not as reliable as my Honda because CR says so." what???????? am i the only person that realizes that comments along those lines are just plain jerky?
I do, however, get tired of the senseless dribble that seems to fill this and other rooms on Edmund's constantly. Almost makes you not want to even participate anymore.
If the comparos could just be kept to their proper section, then everything would be better.
I don't think ZZ79 was out of line for correcting that. If she didn't, people coming in and only reading this board might say, "oh it's in this Forum...it's gotta be true." I know, I know...highly unlikely. Nevertheless, I, for one, don't like to see mis-information being propagated on the Internet.
Anyway, I like the Jetta. Great car. But you're fooling yourself if you think people aren't concerned with a company's prior history. Let me make a brief analogy:
Let's say you've got $20 000 to invest in the stock market. How do you decide which stock to invest in? Most (not all!) would look at the Company's profile/portfolio. Why? They want to see how the company has performed in the past. (Highly simplified b/c I'm no stock broker)
Like it or not the past is an indicator of the future.
How many of you out there won't even look at Kia because of their previous cars??
How can you equate stating the truth with bashing? VWs are not known for their reliability. I don't need to own one to say that. I can say the same thing about a Yugo or a Grand Cherokee and I've never owned one of those cars before either.
Jettas at this point seem to have average reliability. In my book that's still atrocious, but hey, to each his own. Find me another car for 20k that's got as much spunk and luxury and I'd be all over it. Fact is, nothing else like that exists.
BTW, the 02 1.8T's power delivery is shockingly linear. It doesn't feel as turbo-like as my 01. Also, the 17s feel 10,000 times better than the wobbly 16s on my Wolfsburg. At 90 on my test drive the 02 only turns 3600 rpm. That was really nice! I got in mine and it felt so raw turning 4k on the drive home. Unfortunately, the new stereo straight up blows in my opinion...no more cubby? Finally getting leather would be extremely nice too (no more random stains!). Decisions, decisions, decisions.
I am considering buying a 1.8T. I have two questions:
(1) do you have to let the turbo spool down after use (ie let the car idle before turning off)
(2) Are there any special "break in" operating recommendations - stipulations?
Thanks.
The break-in is that you shouldn't take the car up to 120 mph or floor the pedail from a stop before 500 miles, and you shouldn't slam on the brakes before 200 either.
Again, you buy what you want (YOU not meaning YOU, but people in general, including ME). But, do we constantly have to bring up all the lame magazine reliability reports? How can a magazine know that my car is perfectly fine for my purposes? Funnily enough, I have never been sent a survey. Guess who gets the surveys? VW's competitors pay service managers at VW dealers under the table to get addresses and phone numbers that are in the database? And guess what - most likely those will be negative experiences, since they were in for service. What happens to the people that never go in for service? These ratings are all PURCHASED for the most part, in one way or another. Then you look at mags like Car and Driver, who drive the heck out of cars, and all you hear is "solid cars, immaculate, incredible build quality, etc." Sure, the VW might not win the contest, but you don't hear of reliability issues. The fact is that there is sooooo much mis-info out there, as you said, that you can't believe any of it.
Gotta go with what you enjoyed the most during the test-drive.
Insane. Absolutely insane. I cannot believe it. Every company in the automotive industry is out to get VW which is why their ratings are so poor. That explains everything!
analogy=resemblance in some particulars between things otherwise unlike.
I never meant to say that a car was an investment...I'm not stupid. I was just tyring to show that when you're spending that much money, you have to look at other factors than "jeez...this seat feels nice under my butt."
Ok, maybe YOU don't....you're special. I don't have that kind of confidence or money to throw into a purchase as large as a car...I like doing my research ahead of time.
BTW, I LIVE for that turbo "whistle". driving around with the windows down and sunroof open allows you to hear it even more. it is funny - I can make my car make the sound. I know exactly how much gas to give it. makes the commute less boring. also probably an indicator as to why I only average 25mpgs. but then again, 25 mpg in rush hour traffic for 180 HP is pretty excellent, huh?
What really baffles me is that my lighter 2001 Protege topped out at only 24.5mpg in the same amount of driving, with 30 less hp in it. I know the turbo is suppose to give you alot more power with little loss in fuel economy, but it still amazes me that the Protege can get 24.5 and still be that underpowered compared to the 1.8T. I guess that's why the 1.8 is one of the 10 Best.
The 1.8T should be standard in every car!!
Hey Vocus, or anyone else, has anyone cleaned and conditioned their leather yet? If so, how did it go? What did you use? Anyone else have gray leather?
I always take my car and get it washed because I have no space at home to wash it myself. So they usually clean it out. My car still has that "new" smell after almost 6 months and 13K miles though.
on my 99 VR6 GLS, i had beige leather. There was a "silent" TSB because the beige leather turned a pinkish color. They replaced the leather during my 10k oil change. I am sure that has been remedied, but keep an eye out.
My gray is fine. It looks good as new. I just figured i should clean it eventually. I THINK i saw a new Jetta the other day. It had two shiny tail pipes. they looked chrome. and they stuck out of the car more than mine do. it was silver, and had big wheels.
On the luxury side though I do think the new engine setup makes the car less scrappy.
So it's true about the regular gas in the 02's? And you guys are getting good gas mileage? I get maybe 24 mpg with half city/half highway. I've never pulled better than 26 (I attribute this to the high rpms at freeway speeds...you can't expect much when you're turning 4k on the freeway).
Polls & Statistics: These are reliable to a point, but you cannot necessarily take them for truth. There are too many variables (questions, sample size, sample pool, etc) that can be tweaked to spin results one way or another. Of course, this does not always happen. However, polls & statistics could be taken to prove that 90% of Jetta drivers have DWIs on their record. You probably will not care, but Minnesota Governor Jesse Ventura's approval rating has fallen quite a bit in recent months. Q: When did it start to fall? A: About the time the local news media first reported that it was falling.
My 1.8-liter 2000 ES 5-speed continually averages 32 on the highway, 28 in town. And it's now got 35,000 trouble-free miles on it, by the way. Paid $15,600 for it 23 months ago.
Meade