BMW 3-Series 2005 and earlier

19899101103104585

Comments

  • burrsrburrsr Member Posts: 255
    Anytime you add components, you add weight. Unless you add the components exactly at the midpoint of the weight distribution, or such that the sum of the weights times the distances fore and aft (+ and -) of the midpoint is zero, the weight distribution will change. Heavier components like AWD and auto (probably 50-100 lbs extra, I'd guess), can alter the distribution by a few percentage points, since even 50lbs is about 1.5% of a 3,500lb car's weight.

    I imagine that, given BMW's sporting niche, the engineers' had a design criteria of 50/50 for the most sporting model, RWD with a manual. Other option configurations were secondary: it would not make sense to target 50/50 for an AWD auto when that would likely compromise the weight distribution of the most sport-oriented configuration. Other options, such as SP, likely have negligible effect on weight distr. Any extra suspension beefing would only add a few pounds, and it would apply equally at both front and back.

    This brings up another much lesser-discussed measure: L-R weight distribution. We discuss front-back distribution, and even top-to-bottom (in the form of Center of Gravity height) distribution, but the third axis of the car is rarely discussed.

    Also of interest is the moment of inertia about any of the car's 3 axes. Think of two cars with the same weight and same 50/50 weight distribution. One car has all it's weight distributed very compactly, within, say, a foot of the front-to-back centerline. The other has its weight distributed at the opposite extremes: in both bumpers, with none in the "middle". You can see that when cornering, the first car will be much more responsive and tossable, whereas the second car will feel much more boat-like and be slow to respond to steering inputs.

    OK, that's the technical lesson/thought for the day...now back to more important stuff, like how the hell did MarkinAtlanta (woooops -- had to edit since the 5,000 crown is apparently dynamically changing!) edge out Brave for 5,000???
  • veekay1veekay1 Member Posts: 180
    but this is not fair........somebody is playing tricks..is it u brave or is it our omnipresent host?
  • MarkinAtlantaMarkinAtlanta Member Posts: 194
    I could do it again, and be 5000 again???
  • trejos28trejos28 Member Posts: 93
  • veekay1veekay1 Member Posts: 180
    yes.....u can go ahead and delete 7 of ur messages and that will make u 5000! again
  • brave1heartbrave1heart Member Posts: 2,698
    great comparo - i can't argue with any of it. i also noticed and have previously mentioned that i had a lot more headroom in the sedan but no-one confirmed my observations until now. did you also notice how far back you need to stretch for the seat belt in the coupe as opposed to the sedan?
  • veekay1veekay1 Member Posts: 180
    looks like its not moving....no wonder we have such long waiting times!!
  • novcenthusiastnovcenthusiast Member Posts: 80
    for askin', I'm sure it's been addressed b4, but what is this plus MACO when talkin about price (ie, 1500 over invoise plus MACO)? Is this some type of adjusted cost?

    You guys post too much. Can't keep up. Actually I have another question. Has BMW switched from ContiSport Contacts to Turanzas on the SP? I've seen quite a few 3series with the 17" wheels that have Bridgestones on them. Maybe they've been pushed as a good aftermarket alternative out here, don't know. This is a bit disturbing. Not that bridgestone's performance tires aren't good but Turanzas...
  • genie1genie1 Member Posts: 398
    Thanks for the info. I don't think I was planning on getting the sport package. What does it include?

    I've been driving in winter for a couple of years now, so I probably will see how bad this next winter is before I get the snows. No one I know here uses them.

    I haven't test driven any yet, but will probably try to check some out this weekend. I am getting excited about my anticipated purchase.
  • novcenthusiastnovcenthusiast Member Posts: 80
    just thought some might find this interesting in light of the earlier comments on FWD and that it would cost BMW more to develop such a platform at this point. (article about the mini)

    www.cars.com/carsapp/national/?szc=94612&srv=parser&act=display&tf=/news/national/storytemplate2.tmpl
  • jnscheongjnscheong Member Posts: 66
    MACO is the regional advertising fee that BMWNA charges each dealer within a geographical region. How this fee is presented to the buyer is up to the dealer. Some dealers hide this as part of the above invoice price they are willing the sell the cars for. Others list this as part of the invoice price for the car.

    jnscheong
  • layer5layer5 Member Posts: 2
    Questions about 325i dealer contract:
    Q1: What's meaning of 325IA, I've ordered 325I?
    Q2: I did factory order, why the VIN number is on the contract?
    Q3: At beginning of the contract car type is NEW, but Why it shows AS-IS in the middle?
    Q4: Should I pay for the advertisement fee? Is it part of invoice? Is it called Arco or something like that.
    Q5: $1400 over invoice(excludes advertisement fee), is it a good deal?
    Thanks in advance.
    Q
  • brave1heartbrave1heart Member Posts: 2,698
    MACO stands for something like Marketing and Advertising Cost Overhead or something to that extent, I forgot. It's a legitimate fee that some dealers are charged and they pass it directly to the consumer. In a way, it is easier to compare prices in terms of discount off MSRP. "Over invoice" should include MACO, IMO, but its treatment has been inconsistent, at least on this board. Bottom line is, a reasonable price to pay would be $1,500-2,000 over invoice, MACO included. The SP comes with one of these 3 types of tires: ContiSports, Turanzas, Or Michelin Pilots. I am very happy with my Contis but will probably switch to Dunlop SP8080's when I have to replace them. Are you still a new C enthusiast, BTW?
  • genie1genie1 Member Posts: 398
    Thanks for the info. I don't think I was planning on getting the sport package. What does it include?

    I've been driving in winter for a couple of years now, so I probably will see how bad this next winter is before I get the snows. No one I know here uses them.

    I haven't test driven any yet, but will probably try to check some out this weekend. I am getting excited about my anticipated purchase.
  • kominskykominsky Member Posts: 850
    I got used to the stretch pretty quickly in my car. Initially I was reaching across with my right arm and trying to get it that way... big mistake. As soon as I got used to just reaching back with my left arm, the problem went away. In fact, I found myself reaching back in the sedan and wondering if BMW forgot the seatbelts on the 323's. Then I'd see it sitting there right next to my shoulder. I guess it depends on which way you're accustomed to.

    It's kind of like when switching between my Altima and BMW... Whenever I get in the Altima I expect the window switches to be in the center console and they're not. Then I get back in the BMW and reach for the switches on the door and they're not there. Maybe I should get rid of the Altima and get a 325 as my 'beater' car... (okay, maybe this time I am looking to start trouble :-))
  • brave1heartbrave1heart Member Posts: 2,698
    those deer roads can be very treacherous :O)
  • kominskykominsky Member Posts: 850
    :-)
  • rkuehnrkuehn Member Posts: 120
    No... I don't think there is any science behind the lack of an AWD s-series coupe, after all how long did it take BMW to finally come up with an in-dash CD?

    You would think with the X-coupe concept they saw the merits of producing an AWD coupe...???
  • brave1heartbrave1heart Member Posts: 2,698
    looks very cool on the pictures you'd sent me. and was that your backyard? very beautiful and private, i love it.
  • brave1heartbrave1heart Member Posts: 2,698
    it's a long way from concept to production... even with all the CAD/CAM design equipment they use these days it may take them a while before they bring this to production.
  • blaketagblaketag Member Posts: 24
    Thanks for the info on upcoming shipments to CA. It might be tight for me to make the 6/11 ship, since I'm assuming I just hit 160 recently. If I get on the 6/18 ship it looks like I'll miss 7/20. I'll track it closely with BMW at this point, until I find out what ship I'm on.

    Tom
  • kominskykominsky Member Posts: 850
    Dog's name is Keisha. She's a black and silver german shepherd. She's a great dog, but if you look at that picture, you'll notice she's carrying that log way to close to my car...

    Yes, that's off the bottom of my driveway with a great view of the Blue Mountain.
  • kominskykominsky Member Posts: 850
    If female dogs could drive, would they drive Audi's or BMW's?

    ... sorry, it's gotten awfully quiet around here since veekay1... no wait, I mean MarkinAtlanta... oops, sorry, I meant to say langley2 got to post 5000. :-)
  • stooge2000stooge2000 Member Posts: 96
    When I tell my son that I am thinking about buying a BMW 330 sedan for myself, the young twenty something says: "Oh no Dad, it is a yuppy car. For you it screams 'midlife crisis'."

    Is that true? Any comment?
  • brave1heartbrave1heart Member Posts: 2,698
    yuppie or midlife crisis? There is usually a few years apart but if you hit midlife crisis when you were still a yuppie, then you must be a very mature person ;O)
  • novcenthusiastnovcenthusiast Member Posts: 80
    Why three types of tires, does it differ by engine and body type? Or can one request which tire he, or she, wants?

    new C (?) enthusiast...
    not sure if you just read it wrong, or j/k around but I meant it to be read "novice enthusiast".

    Can't believe I didn't get into cars earlier in life, esp. with all the engineering that goes into them. But then again, couldn't afford one 'til after graduating and getting a job.

    Stooge I'm 25 and not a yuppie, but I am strongly considering one. I say whatever makes you happy. Though I must admit that seeing so many on the road, they're as common as accords and that makes me a little hesitant.
  • stooge2000stooge2000 Member Posts: 96
    When I tell my son that I am thinking about buying a BMW 330 sedan for myself, the young twenty something says: "Oh no Dad, it is a yuppy car. For you it screams 'midlife crisis'."

    Is that true? Any comment?
  • brave1heartbrave1heart Member Posts: 2,698
    Of course she's hanging out close to the car - they are both German and probably get along well, you know. Female dogs driving - depending on whether they are German shepherds or poodles :o)
  • novcenthusiastnovcenthusiast Member Posts: 80
    well I guess I am young, I do live in an urban area, and some may consider me to be a professional... That sux. Well I know I'm no yuppie.
  • brave1heartbrave1heart Member Posts: 2,698
    Why three types of tires, does it differ by engine and body type? Or can one request which tire he, or she, wants? ==> 3 types of tires for the SP package ALONE - that's how they do it. You cannot request or specify tire preferences - you take whatever the car comes with unless the dealer is willing to do it for you, which is extremely unlikely for free. Not sure which one out of the 3 is the best - all I can say is that the Contis that came with my SP are quiet, have monstrous grip, and are VERY good in the rain.

    new C (?) enthusiast...==> Just kidding, sorry...

    Can't believe I didn't get into cars earlier in life==> I was talking to a friend of mine last night and he asked what was new with us. I had not seen talked to him for a long while and we've never been that close so he didn't know I share a passion for driving. I said not much, same ol'. Told him I bought a new car, didn't even specify what. He said "that's just rubber and metal, who cares". I asked him what he cares about and he couldn't come up with anything - just kept talking about how he wanted to do something more exciting in life and all he kept talking about was his career. So many people don't get it: it doesn't have to be cars; it could be sports, trips, friends, whatever, anything that you are passionate about. There are those few who are truly passionate about their careers. I keep reminding myself that I go to work so I can sustain my family and be able to support my abundant hobbies; not the other way round. So in short: for me it goes like family, parents, hobbies, work, friends or something along these lines... As Muhammad Ali said, don't wake up at 60 and wish you had another chance to live your life...Passion for driving may be a good start.
  • trejos28trejos28 Member Posts: 93
    that's why i like em (one of the reasons)
  • brave1heartbrave1heart Member Posts: 2,698
    Most of us on this board are yuppies by definition. That's fine with me. Sometimes you can't escape the definition but the key thing is not to act like one...
  • brave1heartbrave1heart Member Posts: 2,698
  • uge123uge123 Member Posts: 100
    arojeki - I checked out Perillo and checked right out. I personally had a bad experience there but your mileage may vary. Nearlly all the other dealerships commented that Perillo was their best source of referrals. LOL. I personally prefer metallic paint, as I got steel blue metallic. I love that color. Just a note, it's difficult to get a great deal in the Chicago area, from everybody I've talked to and from personal experience. I got a reasonable deal but I'm sure I could have done better.

    denk - Patrick's a nice dealership. Fields is nice also. In the end, I got my best deals from these two...in fact, nearly the same deal. So I went with my local dealership as Fields has free car washes six times a week as well as free BMW loaners. I know, free car washes seem cheesy, but in Chicago, they're vital. The salt is lethal here, as you know. But they don't pick up and drop off the customer. I was treated well just about everwhere except Perillo (see above).

    Good luck both of you.

    I'm still waiting for my 325iT. It's sitting at the VPC waiting for a truck! I guess I won't get it this weekend. Let's hope for Monday!
  • novcenthusiastnovcenthusiast Member Posts: 80
    come on out to Cali: Bay Area or LA.
    you'll see all the 3-series you can stand.

    Where do you live?

    I think you're right about passion Brave1. I enjoy my job, but not passionate about it; yet...
    I do have plans in the work to begin exploring my real passion. Cars can be secondary though. I'm really interested in buying an old sports car and fixing it back up. I used to think my friends in highschool that would buy and work on old cars were nuts. Now I can understand.
  • uge123uge123 Member Posts: 100
    One of my friends swears by Field's BMW for service. I've heard great things about Patrick as well. My parents have two M-B's from Laurel and have always received great service from them. I can't imagine that their BMW service is any worse.

    Personally I think that free loaners for the life of your car push the value of a dealership up. As a surgical resident who goes to multiple hospitals (sometimes on the same day), I cannot spend any time without a car.
  • trejos28trejos28 Member Posts: 93
    ah..california..i see your point. im in louisiana..land of pickups..crawfish..and more pickups
  • novcenthusiastnovcenthusiast Member Posts: 80
    thanks for the info brave1 and others who responded. No need to apologize for jokin around. Just hard to tell in these things.

    have a good weekend all.
  • adam68adam68 Member Posts: 59
    After a two month wait, my car had arrived. I can't tell you all how dissapointed I was to arrive at the dealership to find my car filthy...inside and out...and more importantly,
    7 scratches on the drivers side door...three of these scratches were extremely deep. They offered to repaint the door which I quickly refused. They were able to find another car, exactly as I had ordered allready in transit and one week from port. I only hope this time the car is delivered as it should be...without scratches and clean...Am I asking for too much???
  • kominskykominsky Member Posts: 850
    "Am I asking for too much???"

    Definitely not!!!! Although waiting even longer is not desirable, you have every right to expect a perfect car.
  • adam68adam68 Member Posts: 59
    I'm 33 and have owned 8 cars as of now...all
    purchased new. I have never experienced anything like this. I'll give it one more shot. If this car is damaged, I suppose i'll have no choice but to look for something else...
  • dzayiadzayia Member Posts: 12
    my local dealer is quoting around $3850 for the premium package on a 330i sedan. all the web sites, including bmw's own quote this package at $2900. can anyone advise???
  • ajdean9ajdean9 Member Posts: 1
    what does it matter?
    the 330 is a great car.
    Practical (for a sports car)
    Fun
    need any other excuses?
  • kominskykominsky Member Posts: 850
    I'm curious, were you there to pick the car up or did you just stop by to take a look at it intending to take delivery at some later time. The reason I'm asking is that the scratches were obviously the result of some unfortunate mishap, but the dirty exterior and interior sound like shoddy dealership performance (unless the car was just taken off the truck and not prepped yet).
  • kominskykominsky Member Posts: 850
    Sounds like your dealer may be using a pre-March price list. There were several items in the PP that are now standard. The price of the PP dropped at that point. Can anyone confirm the old PP price?
  • adam68adam68 Member Posts: 59
    The Car Arrived on Sunday and I had an appointment to pick it up at 3pm on Wednesday. I arrived at 2:50pm....
  • kominskykominsky Member Posts: 850
    oh, okay, so then it WAS your fault for arriving early... :-)

    I would definelty point out to your salesman that even if the scratches weren't there, the car was poorly prepped. He has the most to gain by keeping you happy and the most to lose if you're unhappy. Hopefully he'll keep a closer eye on things the next time they're prepping your car. I think the guy who sold me my car would have been out there with a bucket and hose cleaning my car himself to assure my happiness. Not only did he earn "excellent" scores in the BMWNA follow up call, but I've also referred several people to him (a couple of whom have bought from him).
  • uge123uge123 Member Posts: 100
    You have a right to expect the product that you ordered and a right to not complete your purchase if the car was damaged or non-funcitonal.

    I agree with Kominsky in that the sales staff did a poor job of prepping the car for delivery, even without the scratches. Why was the interior filthy? Was it mearly dusty or was it truly dirt and oil stains? You're paying enough for these cars AND you've orderd them so there is no reason to expect what you ordered. There is no AS IS excuse when buying a car fresh from the factory.
  • adam68adam68 Member Posts: 59
    The car car only had 9 miles on it...yet if I had the car 9 years, it would not look that bad. The car was filthy, inside and out...I remember grease stains on the glove compartment door and on the cloth trim around the windows. Forgetting that...why should I have to accept a car with scatches in the paint?? I'm sure these scratches occured at the dealer...most likely during prep...
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