Do either of you (or anyone else) know how much heavier the 3.0L is than the 2.5L? I would have guessed a considerable amount, but after just looking at the brochure, I'm not so sure. According to the sedan brochure, the 330i weighs 77 pounds more than the 325i... 3318 vs 3241 pounds. These weights, I'm assuming, are on base models. If you consider that the base wheels are 16" on the 325i and 17" on the 330i and the brakes are also larger on the 330i, that would account for... I'M GUESSING HERE... 10pounds per corner or a total of 40pounds. Add in the miscellaneous extras on the 330i (foglights, etc) and your probably looking at another 5lbs of stuff. That would put the 3.0L at about 30pounds heavier than the 2.5L. Does this seem right? Am I missing something? I would have expected the weight penalty to be higher.
Key points: "Acceleration follows the torque curve in any given gear, but if you factor in gearing vs car speed, the power peak is *it*." The way that I understand it is that in any given gear, the torque peak gives you the best acceleration for that particular gear. However, the max HP (usually higher RPM and therefore lower gear for that speed) would give you the absolute best acceleration, whatever gear it takes to be in to achieve that.
By going from the peak torque for E46 models (3,500 RPM's) to peak HP (6,000 RPM's for the 325), you re-gear the car so it is operating at the power peak. It will deliver more torque to the drive wheels, because you have geared up by 71% ((6,000-3,500)/3,500) and while engine torque has dropped by 9% from the peak ((176-161)/176 as measured by Dinan at 3,500 and 6,000 RPM's), you'll net a 71%-9% = 62% gain in drive wheel torque at the power peak vs the torque peak. All at a given car speed.
Pfffewww, took me longer to figure that out than the Black-Scholes derivatives securities pricing model back in college. So moral of the story is, the absolute best acceleration for the 325 would be at 6,000 RPM's (peak HP) and the best continuous acceleration (sweet spot) would be between 3,500 and 6,000 RPM's.
I agree with the rest of your reasoning as well - I had thought the weight difference is more than 150 lbs but in reality they are probably almost the same weight.
Please tell me you don't like "the agressor"... Chain-link license plate frames, full clears, rear deck spoiler from Hades and those obnoxious chrome wheels... LOL! It is a pretty neat site though. Did you put your cursor on some of the photos in the gallery and see them transform?
For those of you who installed a Dinan Free flow exhaust and/or cold air intake, any opinions on how much louder your 3 has become ??
Also, any other constant minor noises ?? Does your engine tach skewed more to the red ?? Are you getting about the same gas milegae or worse ?? I'm looking to cough up the 2k or so to modify both and would like some thoughts before I run out and do this.
I remember someone saying that the BMW alarm system and universal garage door openers for the 325i are much cheaper to buy online than to get at the local dealer and are also simple to install yourself.
Anyone have more info in this? Is it really that much cheaper through mail order and is it easy enough for someone who has never installed anything like that before?
Did anyone get an estimate on when prices will be announced for the 2002 models? What is the typical length of time it is taking between ordering and receiving a 2002 model?
Is there a way to display more than 20 posts at a time or search the entire group? It is extremely difficult to finding past posts to see if a question had been answered before. Scrolling back 20 posts at a time is very tedious.
I bought my Remote from pacificbmw.com, I understand that circlebmw.com sells them as well. The installation if fairly easy (about 15 minutes) unless you have a problem locating the proper wire, it seems that on some cars this wire is more that a little difficult to find.
It is my understanding that the 323i, 325i, 328i and 330i cars are all EXACTLY the same size in all dimensions. As a side note, a couple of months ago, we did a little speculation here on which engine was heavier and we were never able to make an absolute determination on that one. The argument went something like this:
The block, pistons, head and valve train weigh the same. The 3.0L has a longer stroke, thus a shorter throw on the crank; lighter crank. The 3.0L with said longer stroke has longer connecting rods; heaver rods.
Like shipo, I too made my purchase from Pacific BMW. The price for the alarm (~$220) was the best I could find. The install was very easy with the exception of mounting the siren. I had trouble getting my hands into the opening in the firewall. My wife, with her small hands, had the part in place in a matter of seconds. Otherwise everything went very smoothly although it is a little scary partially dismantling your new car.
Thanks. I was actually trying to determine why the 325 seems to consistently have higher skidpad numbers than the 330. I have seen 325 numbers between .84-.86G, and 330 numbers between .80-.84G.
I ordered a 2002 330xi in July and have been told that it will be delivered in late October / early November. As far as pricing goes, this issue is starting to irritate me somewhat as I have not even been given a rough idea of when this will be announced. Considering that they're starting to build 2002 models next week, I find this odd. I'm hoping that the increase will be modest (i.e. 1%-2% over 2001 prices) rather than extreme (2%-3% that some folks have been suggesting on other web pages). I hope this helps.
I just received my 330i on Wednesday. Yesterday I washed my car for the first time and found a small cluster of "dark spots" behind the rear wheel on the plastic painted wheel well. I tried to wash these spots off, but they didn't come out. I rubbed these spots with my fingers, and they don't appear to be on the surface. It felt very smooth as if it was within the material itself. Could this be a defect in the painting or could some contaminants already worked their way in??
Can anyone verify the fact that BMW is radically changing the design for next years models? I believe i've seen some pictures out there but i wasn't sure if they were prototypes or actual European models. They sorta put the 'Aztec' look on the front end ot the car...not very attractive to say the least.
I went autocrossing for the first time this past weekend at Rosecroft Raceway in Fort Washington, Maryland. Simply amazing--BMWs everywhere, mostly E36 M3s, which seemed to dominate. I went in the S1 (stock, unmodified) and finished the course in a respectable 61.6 time. No cone-kills, off-course violations, or spinouts so I was pretty happy. I never imagined my 325Ci could handle so well. I pretty much pushed the limits of the car, and it felt great.
I do have some issues, though. During the third and fourth rounds especially, I found that the throttle response was incredibly delayed. Coming out of a couple of turns (with the DSC off, of course), I punched the gas, and nothing for about a second or so. And it never really kicked in, just a slow acceleration. Very strange, and I wasn't too happy about it. Any ideas as to what might have been the problem? Help!
deepdarkblu: Make sure your running with at least 1/3rd to 1/2 tank of gas. The quick transitions and constant cornering may be causing fuel starvation. This could manifest in retarded (hehe) timing and a sluggish feel as the onboard computers attempt to compensate for the lean mixture.
FWIW I've done some cone bashing in my 323 sedan and never had any sense of throttle lag. Just a natural tendency of the 2.5 to be a bit dull beneath 3K on the tach.
At what point will be the latest you will be able to back out and get your deposit back on your order? Can you cancel after you hear the price or on the day the car arrives on the lot if you don't like it? I would hope you should be able to cancel at any time and get a refund on the deposit because the dealers I've talked to seem to say that they will be very easy to sell and someone else will quickly take the car if you give it up.
Mercedes Benz C-Class is awesome! New 2002 Coupe has fresh look that turns heads! We looked at BMW, Lexus, etc, etc, etc... Nothing in the $30k - $40k price range was as exciting overall as the new Mercedes C-Class Sport Coupe. If you're looking (and not a hard core this or that) you really want to check these out... (negative reponse = envious)
There is all kinds of environmental contamination on the surface of the vehicle. I had problems, too on my jet black 330xi. My advice to you is to purchase the full complement of Zaino products. Remove the wax, then use the clay bar on the surface. I found that a bit of pressure was needed to remove these contaminants, but it did work. I spent several hours working on the car, but once you have "clayed" the surface, rewashed, and applied the first coat of polish, things get much easier.
I agree, it is very difficult to scroll back 20 posts at a time to find something. Unfortunately, that seems to be what we are stuck with here on Web Crossing.
A little while ago, the idea of an FAQ topic in the owners club was tossed around as a place where frequently asked questions and answers could be posted and then searched through more easily. I'm not sure if that ever took hold, but I do believe the topic is there.
If you'd like to express your feelings about the limited Search functions of Town Hall, please feel free to drop by the Our Software - Your Questions Answered discussion on our News and Views Board. I can't promise you instant results, but it sure won't hurt to point out what your needs are and what you perceive as shortcomings here.
My dealer told me they do not expect any price increase for the 2002 3-Series (or at least for the 330i, which is what I ordered). I ordered mine last week and it should be here in October. I actually got one of the first Sept. builds from my dealership.
The questions I have is: they based my order on 2001 prices, where the CD player was a $200 option. I wonder if the 2002 prices will go up by $200 to cover the new standard feature, go up by an amount between $0 and $200, or stay the same and I actually pay $200 less for my car. I won't know that until the dealer tells me what the pricing is.
I haven't bothered them since I placed my order, I though I would wait until BMW started building them. Unfortunately, they probably know that a couple hundred dollars won't make a difference to someone who really wants the car. I don't know anyone else's experience with ordering a 2002, but my dealer gave me $0 off MSRP, except to throw in the floor mats, which I refuse to pay for.
I think the most simple thing would be the giving users the ability to change the default from 20 posts per page to any number of posts desired, then the person searching could just use the search function built into in their web broser to find posts. Not sophisticated, but it would be better than nothing. Ideally, there would be a search box built into the site
I have a 1989 325ix that I just love. It has some trim missing and needs detailing or a new paint job (more than likely). Does anyone have a good body shop in Southwestern connecticut that specializes in BMWs? Also, our mechanic moved away, and we're looking for a new BMW mechanic. Any suggestions?? Thanks.
Brave1 - I ask u because I remember reading something about auto racing in one of your post last week.
How do Le Mans races work? I was watching the ALMS this past weekend and I noticed that they were running about 4 races simultaneously on one track. I think the classes were P900, P675, GTS, and GT. Why do they race at the same time, to save time? Where can I find regulations on car specs for each class?
The P900 class seem to have only Audis and Panoz. I think the Audis have a midengine V8 bi-turbo and the Panoz(es) were front engine na.
The GT class consisted of BMW M3 GTRs versus 911's, not sure which variant.
These cars all seem pretty different configuration wise but I assume there has to be some similarities somewhere. weight? size/dimension? HP limit?
Thanks to anyone that can help. I guess I'll tie this in to the 3 series board by mentioning the M3's took one and two in their class.
Is the Zaino clay bar the only product that will take out these contaminents in the paint? Like I said, it isn't on the painted metal, but on the painted plastic guard around the wheel well. Can I use dish detergent in this one area to take off the wax, then try to buff it out with some Klasse??
I'm car hunting for my wife (really for me, but don't tell her) and can buy a slightly used 2001 Audi S4 w/ 4600 mi (silver, onyx int, loaded) for about $35,500 from a private seller or order a 2002 BMW 325ci w/ Sport and premium pkgs for a driveout price of about $33,500. I KNOW I like the BMW, but more power might be nice. Based on ownership costs, drivability, etc, which would YOU think I'd enjoy more? I love acceleration, but can't really push a car to anywhere near its limits on these dangerous and crowded streets here in Atlanta. Comments?
Re-read your last sentence...what's the point of an S4 under these circumstances? Get the 3er and save your money...or as someone else has already suggested, try the new MB C-coupe. I was more impressed than I thought I would be, and that will save you even more money still. And a final comment: three cheers for your last sentence, which sums up the situation for more people than want to admit it, not only on this board but everywhere else, as well. Unless you plan to regularly go for autocrossing [see still more posts, above], it makes more sense to get the most performance you can use in the real world, and don't pay a penny more than necessary.
Test drive both (2001 for 325, I guess), and get the one you (or your wife) like better. At these prices, trying to save couple thousand shouldn't be your main reason for getting the car.
Why would you need to come into the BMW 3 series forum and tout the MB C coupe? What good does it possibly serve? Are you deep down inside regreting your purchase?
I think the new c class is a fine auto, but you don't find any of us posting in the C class forum about how great the 3 series are.
Now let's look at your last few post's and maybe that will shed some light on your true nature:
Posted by ruxpin27613 on 8/27/01 in the Lexus convertible forum subject: "LEXUS IS LAME!!!!!!!"
Posted by ruxpin27613 on 8/27/01 in the Honda Accord Coupe forum subject: "HONDA STINKS!!!!!!"
Do you really expect anyone here to take you seriously with that kind of childish drivel? Come on man if you don't have anything positive to say, don't say it.
Why is it that you have not posted in the C class forum about your new found love? I went back to June and you have not posted once. Your profile lists your current drive as a Land Rover. HMMMMmmm smells like a duck, quacks like a duck, waddles like a duck.....
Sorry, I know better than to feed the trolls. After reading what this guy has posted in other topics, I just went off!! Time to load up on the Prozac!!!
deepdarkblu: No, don't shift out of second after you launch. I believe you will lose more time and cause more wear on your car if you are constantly rowing 1-2. I have not heard of any top BMW pilots moving out of second on Solo II courses.
If you feel like your sluggish coming out of the corners there are a couple of things you can try. Drive in slightly slower on a corner, really concentrate on a smooth line and get on the gas sooner. If you didn't spin or hit any cones during your first autocross you have "room" in the corners to be going faster. If you feel like you are going to go wide, or possibly spin, STAY on the gas! Our little Bimmers have an uncanny ability to come out correct even when our gut instincts are telling us to back off. Besides, you come out of the gas abruptly mid corner you will unload the rear and be looking at the course backwards. Don't be afraid to hit a few cones and the course workers WILL get out of the way ;-)
Another technique for keeping revs a little higher is left foot braking. By applying the brake with ones' left foot, the right is free to apply gas at the same time. Tough to master for us used to right footing.
Well, I joined the club last night. I bought a 2001 330i with SP, PP, CD, Step and Xenon. Thanks for all of the great posts. They made my car buying decision very easy. Now I just need to decide whether or not to get the retro-fit steering. Thanks, again.
When I went autocrossing this past weekend, I shut off the DSC, but there seemed to be some kind of traction control kicking in. I took a hard turn over uneven pavement and then hit the gas, then nothing. A one second or more lag. I had a full tank of gas and the rpms were at about 4000. Is there a traction control system in addition to the DSC? Please advise.
Dealers in Calif. are giving different info. Some say expect up to a 3% increases, but I believe they are just trying to pressure people to purchase current inventory. Several said their will be no, or very small increase, and that cd player will be included. With a new A4, a new Jag, a manual and hatch Is 300, a new small Caddie, and even the new Inf. I35 and the high powered Altima and Maxima, and the CL S from Acura, there will be huge competition in this market this year. Combined with a slow economy, BMW doesn't have a lot of room to raise prices and keep up their volume growth.
I just bought a 330i for $1,000 over invoice plus $490 in combined ad coop and dealer prep fees. All options were at invoice except floor mats, which where $100. So there is some dealing out there.
Comments
Thanks
can be found at: http://www.vettenet.org/torquehp.html
(which is link from E46fanatics.com that's been referenced here before so I can't take "geek" credit for finding it) (;>}
"Acceleration follows the torque curve in any given gear, but if you factor in gearing vs car speed, the power peak is *it*." The way that I understand it is that in any given gear, the torque peak gives you the best acceleration for that particular gear. However, the max HP (usually higher RPM and therefore lower gear for that speed) would give you the absolute best acceleration, whatever gear it takes to be in to achieve that.
By going from the peak torque for E46 models (3,500 RPM's) to peak HP (6,000 RPM's for the 325), you re-gear the car so it is operating at the power peak. It will deliver more torque to the drive wheels, because you have geared up by 71% ((6,000-3,500)/3,500) and while engine torque has dropped by 9% from the peak ((176-161)/176 as measured by Dinan at 3,500 and 6,000 RPM's), you'll net a 71%-9% = 62% gain in drive wheel torque at the power peak vs the torque peak. All at a given car speed.
Pfffewww, took me longer to figure that out than the Black-Scholes derivatives securities pricing model back in college. So moral of the story is, the absolute best acceleration for the 325 would be at 6,000 RPM's (peak HP) and the best continuous acceleration (sweet spot) would be between 3,500 and 6,000 RPM's.
http://www.topbmwsites.com
be sure to check out the "Agressor" and "my330" sites under the 3-series!
http://www.turnermotorsport.com
http://www.dinanbmw.com
If not, try here;
http://www.bmwlinks.com/BMW_Models
Chain-link license plate frames, full clears, rear deck spoiler from Hades and those obnoxious chrome wheels... LOL! It is a pretty neat site though. Did you put your cursor on some of the photos in the gallery and see them transform?
Also, any other constant minor noises ??
Does your engine tach skewed more to the red ??
Are you getting about the same gas milegae or worse ??
I'm looking to cough up the 2k or so to modify both and would like some thoughts before I run out and do this.
Anyone have more info in this? Is it really that much cheaper through mail order and is it easy enough for someone who has never installed anything like that before?
What is the typical length of time it is taking between ordering and receiving a 2002 model?
Scrolling back 20 posts at a time is very tedious.
Best Regards,
Shipo
The block, pistons, head and valve train weigh the same.
The 3.0L has a longer stroke, thus a shorter throw on the crank; lighter crank.
The 3.0L with said longer stroke has longer connecting rods; heaver rods.
Which one is heavier? Got me.
Best Regards,
Shipo
I do have some issues, though. During the third and fourth rounds especially, I found that the throttle response was incredibly delayed. Coming out of a couple of turns (with the DSC off, of course), I punched the gas, and nothing for about a second or so. And it never really kicked in, just a slow acceleration. Very strange, and I wasn't too happy about it. Any ideas as to what might have been the problem? Help!
FWIW I've done some cone bashing in my 323 sedan and never had any sense of throttle lag. Just a natural tendency of the 2.5 to be a bit dull beneath 3K on the tach.
Can you cancel after you hear the price or on the day the car arrives on the lot if you don't like it?
I would hope you should be able to cancel at any time and get a refund on the deposit because the dealers I've talked to seem to say that they will be very easy to sell and someone else will quickly take the car if you give it up.
New 2002 Coupe has fresh look that turns heads!
We looked at BMW, Lexus, etc, etc, etc...
Nothing in the $30k - $40k price range was as exciting overall as the new Mercedes C-Class Sport Coupe.
If you're looking (and not a hard core this or that) you really want to check these out...
(negative reponse = envious)
Best of luck.
A little while ago, the idea of an FAQ topic in the owners club was tossed around as a place where frequently asked questions and answers could be posted and then searched through more easily. I'm not sure if that ever took hold, but I do believe the topic is there.
If you'd like to express your feelings about the limited Search functions of Town Hall, please feel free to drop by the Our Software - Your Questions Answered discussion on our News and Views Board. I can't promise you instant results, but it sure won't hurt to point out what your needs are and what you perceive as shortcomings here.
Thanks.
Pat
Host
Sedans Message Board
The questions I have is: they based my order on 2001 prices, where the CD player was a $200 option. I wonder if the 2002 prices will go up by $200 to cover the new standard feature, go up by an amount between $0 and $200, or stay the same and I actually pay $200 less for my car. I won't know that until the dealer tells me what the pricing is.
I haven't bothered them since I placed my order, I though I would wait until BMW started building them. Unfortunately, they probably know that a couple hundred dollars won't make a difference to someone who really wants the car. I don't know anyone else's experience with ordering a 2002, but my dealer gave me $0 off MSRP, except to throw in the floor mats, which I refuse to pay for.
Not sophisticated, but it would be better than nothing.
Ideally, there would be a search box built into the site
How do Le Mans races work? I was watching the ALMS this past weekend and I noticed that they were running about 4 races simultaneously on one track. I think the classes were P900, P675, GTS, and GT.
Why do they race at the same time, to save time? Where can I find regulations on car specs for each class?
The P900 class seem to have only Audis and Panoz. I think the Audis have a midengine V8 bi-turbo and the Panoz(es) were front engine na.
The GT class consisted of BMW M3 GTRs versus 911's, not sure which variant.
These cars all seem pretty different configuration wise but I assume there has to be some similarities somewhere. weight? size/dimension? HP limit?
Thanks to anyone that can help. I guess I'll tie this in to the 3 series board by mentioning the M3's took one and two in their class.
The sticky gas pedal issue is not new anymore in this board.
The sun blocker (sunroof) is out of allignment. It doesn't
shut and moves around like a snake.
Anyone has the same problem?
http://alms.americanlemans.com/
When you get to site, click on "ALMS" button on upper right. On page that comes up click on "Classes" button on left.
By the way, there's agreat story about the development of the M3GTR in the new issue of BMWCCA's "Roundel" magazine.
What good does it possibly serve?
Are you deep down inside regreting your purchase?
I think the new c class is a fine auto, but you don't find any of us posting in the C class forum about how great the 3 series are.
Now let's look at your last few post's and maybe that will shed some light on your true nature:
Posted by ruxpin27613 on 8/27/01 in the Lexus convertible forum subject: "LEXUS IS LAME!!!!!!!"
Posted by ruxpin27613 on 8/27/01 in the Honda Accord Coupe forum subject: "HONDA STINKS!!!!!!"
Do you really expect anyone here to take you seriously with that kind of childish drivel?
Come on man if you don't have anything positive to say, don't say it.
Why is it that you have not posted in the C class forum about your new found love? I went back to June and you have not posted once. Your profile lists your current drive as a Land Rover. HMMMMmmm smells like a duck, quacks like a duck, waddles like a duck.....
If you feel like your sluggish coming out of the corners there are a couple of things you can try. Drive in slightly slower on a corner, really concentrate on a smooth line and get on the gas sooner. If you didn't spin or hit any cones during your first autocross you have "room" in the corners to be going faster. If you feel like you are going to go wide, or possibly spin, STAY on the gas! Our little Bimmers have an uncanny ability to come out correct even when our gut instincts are telling us to back off. Besides, you come out of the gas abruptly mid corner you will unload the rear and be looking at the course backwards. Don't be afraid to hit a few cones and the course workers WILL get out of the way ;-)
Another technique for keeping revs a little higher is left foot braking. By applying the brake with ones' left foot, the right is free to apply gas at the same time. Tough to master for us used to right footing.
Enjoy!
I just bought a 330i for $1,000 over invoice plus $490 in combined ad coop and dealer prep fees. All options were at invoice except floor mats, which where $100. So there is some dealing out there.
Anyone have good reasons for getting a closed face helment vs. open?