BMW 3-Series 2005 and earlier

1206207209211212585

Comments

  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Ouch, it looks like the folks who lease M3s will be in the same boat that I am in right now (see my message to Ccotenj).

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • genie1genie1 Member Posts: 398
    yes they recommended increasing pressure on the front to 45-55 psi.

    I ran 50 in front and 30 in the back
  • bmw_guybmw_guy Member Posts: 17
    Hey guys,
    I am unable to decide between
    325ci +SP+PP+HK+AUto
    330ci +SP

    I can forgo Auto( that depends if I can convince my gf, She does not know manual). Does wood myrtle and auto dim mirror really that make a difference?? And moonroof? How many of you guys really use it? I am in Boston. If these three are not an issue, I would love to go for an 330. This is my first car. SO I am stuck with these minor issues also.
  • dave330idave330i Member Posts: 893
    I really like the way the car handles at such tire pressure. Too bad we can't drive on the street like that.
  • dave330idave330i Member Posts: 893
    I use the moonroof alot, since it helps cool the car when I get in it mid-afternoon (I live in CA though). I like the wood trim, but if I had to choose between SP vs. PP, it'll always be SP.
  • tiger8tiger8 Member Posts: 120
    Just beginning to look for a new car and am considering a 330i or 325i, but I have questions maybe someone can answer.

    1. Did BMW stiffen up the suspension and steering on the 330 and/or 325 last March, or are they going to do that on the '02 models?

    2. Can anyone recommend a reputable dealer in the greater Chicago or downstate Illinois area?

    3. How much below sticker (if at all) can one get on a 2002 330i or 325i?

    Many thanks for your help.
  • tenet1tenet1 Member Posts: 354
    The Moonroof is great, especially when you are on non-highway trips. Makes the car feel roomier than it is, and I like the light getting into the car (maybe I am just used to it).

    The wood trim is nice because it is real wood (unlike plastic fakes by other car manuf.) and it really gives a luxurious look to the car.
  • genie1genie1 Member Posts: 398
    I really like the way the car handles at such tire pressure. Too bad we can't drive on the street like that.

    Yes it wasn't as bouncy as I thought it would be. I feel the car being much looser today after being tossed around yesterday.

    I learned a couple of neat things that I will be trying out.

    The only down side was that my brother ran over pylons a couple of times and I guess one of the tie-wraps holding the plastic plate under the rad broke off. By the time we got home it was dragging on the ground. I know it didn't drag for too long because it wasn't scraped at all. We just heard it as we were turning into our sub-division.

    So this morning I had to go to the local Speedy and have the tech fix it. Took him 10 mins. and it was gratis, which was nice.
  • dave330idave330i Member Posts: 893
    "So this morning I had to go to the local Speedy and have the tech fix it. Took him 10 mins. and it was gratis, which was nice."

    Used your feminine charm I see. ;-)
  • genie1genie1 Member Posts: 398
    Here's what my horoscope says for today: You will impress members of the opposite sex with your quick wit, and aggressive charms.

    Whatever gets the job done. ;)
  • brave1heartbrave1heart Member Posts: 2,698
    It sound like she had it fixed for free AND she got a date out of it. Not a bad deal, I guess Madame Clio is worth the money after all :o)
  • dave330idave330i Member Posts: 893
    Sigh.... if only my horoscope ever have such good news. Guess I'll have to settle for doing well at work.
  • dave330idave330i Member Posts: 893
    funny you mentioned that. I actually got an e-mail from Madame Clio this morning. She said I must call her now for important news. Unfortunately, I'm too scared to call her. ;-)
  • bigdomerbigdomer Member Posts: 2
    I want to trade my 97 528i in for a '02 325i, yet I do not want the premium package. I assume that I can order the parts to add the armrest/console to the 325i...has anyone done this? Was it difficult to install?

    Thanks.
  • parnolaparnola Member Posts: 141
    Similar to bigdomer's question, I don't want the premium package, but really want the auto-dimming mirror, which is not listed as an individual option. Anyone know if it's possible to have it installed individually?
  • merckxmerckx Member Posts: 565
    Here's another opinion:

    I'm guilty of liking plain cars to a fault,But i really don't like any of the above questioned options,and avoided them as much as I could when I bought two cars this year.
    A sunroof,espically on a low roofed coupe,can rob needed headroom(I'm 6' and like to sit very upright).It also is visually distracting(when beholding the car),and I think the 3-series coupe a particularly handsome car.It is a lot of sun on your face,too.
    The wood I find archaic,way too old-fashioned.It is stagecoach trim,very unharmonious with the youthful design of the exterior.
    As far as an armrest,as comfortable as they may be,they usually foul one's shirting elbow if you opt for the manual trans.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    1) The armrest is available from any dealership for a reasonable price in both leather and 'ette and according to a number of folks who have posted here in the past, it is fairly easy to install.

    2) After installing my Universal Garage Door Opener and seeing the extra wiring up in the roof for other goodies, I strongly suspect that all E46 cars are pre-wired for the self-dimming mirror, regardless of whether they were shipped from the factory with that option installed.

    3) Along with MANY of our fellow contributors here, I have a manual transmission and an armrest, BMW has designed said armrest with a notch cut out of the leading edge of the left side of the cover specifically to clear the drivers elbow when shifting. Unlike my test drives in a 528i a few years ago, the armrest in my 328i has NEVER gotten in the way of a shift. In the unlikely event that an individual is VERY long of arm, said armrest can be pivoted up and back to completely remove it from the area where the elbow is busy rowing back and forth.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • ccotenjccotenj Member Posts: 610
    you can get it off of a number of bmw tuners as well, and most of them will give you the bmwcca discount too...

    i would imagine that they ARE pre-wired for the self-dimming mirror, but i've never seen the mirror itself on anyones site... perhaps an email to circle bmw might clear that up...

    -Chris
  • deepdarkbludeepdarkblu Member Posts: 33
    Hello, fellow Bimmerites. It's been a little while. Lena (325Ci) is doing well, broken in and as fast as ever. Three autocrosses and 6800 miles later, she's giving me more and more pure elation every day.

    Anyway, I wanted to ask if anyone had experience with modifications. I looked into Dinan (too expensive). Now I'm checking our Conforti CAI + Chip at turnermotorsports.com. The graph shows an slight increase in torque and horsepower, especially at the low end. What has been your experience--worth it? Not worth it? What difference did you notice on your vehicle? I'm assuming that the BMW 325Ci is pretty much optimized at stock. I don't want to spend $1000 and get only 5-10 more lb feet. I also don't want to lose torque at certain speeds. Any advice would be helpful.
  • ccotenjccotenj Member Posts: 610
    back in the day of obd i, you really could get an increase in "butt dyno" measurement from chip upgrades... however, in the new age of obd ii, it's not as noticeable... prolly because the programmers have gotten better at it, and because the "feedback" from the sensors has gotten better...

    that being said, 10 ft/lb isn't anything to sneeze at, and jimc is THE MAN when it comes to engine management software...

    -Chris
  • MarkinAtlantaMarkinAtlanta Member Posts: 194
    Realistic expecations, be prepared to spend about $800 for CAI and software for about an 8-10 hp gain with Dinan's setup. If you have a choice get the Conforti stuff, but it takes them a little longer to develop their software, Dinan's is usually ready much sooner. It is a nice little gain, but nothing earth shattering. And it comes across the board, not by talking from one part of the rev range in order to benefit another. The last year that you could make a sizeable difference by chipping your car was 1995, with the OBD I system. 1996 to present, with OBD II the system is much more restrictive.
  • dave330idave330i Member Posts: 893
    into the shop to get the steering centered. Hopefully, this will be the last time it'll go in the shop for a while.

    What's funny though is non-BMW owners are shocked when I tell them the car's never been in the shop for mechanical problems.
  • brave1heartbrave1heart Member Posts: 2,698
    Between the chip, CAI, and exhaust, the CAI would be my first and probably only choice. Look into the ECIS CAI - they just came out with a new one for the 325 yesterday. The chart was not up just yet (have not checked today) but they are claiming 5-8 HP and 6-9 lb/ft torque gain. Not bad for $299. I'd wait till I see the dyno chart to make sure that the gain is across a wide RPM range. Also, one of the common problems with CAI is an audible hissing noise that ECIS was working on eliminating. Hopefully they have made progress on that.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    I came across this link the other day, thought y'all might find it interesting:

    http://pw1.netcom.com/~sgalaba/obdii.htm

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    I hear ya man, when I tell Honda and Toyota owners that I have 32,000 miles and the car has only been to the dealership for the 15K and 30K serivce, they look at me like I am on 'Ludes.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • dave330idave330i Member Posts: 893
    People keep telling me I must have lucked out. I tell them I know many others who have the same trouble free experiences that I have.
  • twoof1twoof1 Member Posts: 308
    ECIS just posted the dyno results for their Intake today. It looks great!! I have been waiting for them to post this before I pulled the trigger. I think it's time. Here is what I am thinking of going with:
    ECIS Intake $299.00
    +6-9hp
    +8-11lbs. ft. torque
    AA (Active Autowerkes) exhaust $675.00
    (Not much louder just breathes better)
    +8hp
    +8.5lbs. ft. torque

    Total: $975.00
    +14-17hp
    +16.5-19.5lbs. ft. torque
    Averages out to $65.00 per hp. $54.00 per lb. ft. torque
    Not that price is driving this decision, just found it interesting.
    Any thoughts?
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    I do not want to take any wind out of your sails; however, I have read that many mods offered for ODB II cars (such as the E46) are not very effective because of the computer that controls the ODB II system. The link that I posted above has an interesting discussion on the "Adaptive" ability of the system, which seems to be the foundation of the problem. I have read elsewhere (I am really trying to remember where) that many specialty "Chip" shops and "Tuner" shops can show good Before/After Dyno gains not because of their product, but because they drove the car prior to the swap like the proverbial "Little old lady to church on Sunday", and after the swap, they drove the car like "The little old lady from Pasadena". Modifications or not, you are guaranteed to see a boost in the power after that type of driving switch.

    The link that I am still looking for was to a site created by an individual who is some kind of a Dinan dealer or shop that does aftermarket modifications to BMWs. He takes each of the mods offered by Dinan (and others if I am not mistaken) and analyses them one by one in a very objective manner. He even makes mention of the fact that the Dinan folks have admitted that there is not too much that can be done with a late model BMW equipped with ODB II. The end result, he returned his E46 engine to stock and kept the suspension mods on the car.

    I too have heard good things about the CAI (just ask Guru about his), all I am suggesting is to look before you leap.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • dave330idave330i Member Posts: 893
    Don't know if you have the 330 or 325, but on the 330, suspension mods seem like the better choice to me. The car already have plenty of hp & torque, and when pushing hard through the corners, the suspension and tires seem to be the limiting factors.
  • hgeyerhgeyer Member Posts: 188
    Could someone recommend a BMW parts site where I can order the universal garage opener and floor mats for a 2002 330i.

    Thanks
  • twoof1twoof1 Member Posts: 308
    Shipo,
    I am familiar with the adaptive nature of ODBII systems. In fact Dinan states that the software upgrade for the new E46's basically does nothing except raise the rev limiter and remove the speed govenor. The point with these upgrades are that no matter what the ODBII system reads, you are delivering more HP and Torque to the system. On my previous car ('00 Z3 2.3) I installed the Dinan Software, CAI & exhaust. It made a noticeable difference but it is very expensive for the results compared to what I am planning this time around.

    dave330i,
    It's a 325 and I agree that if I had stepped up to the 330, I would not be pursuing the power upgrades. Hindsight is a great virtue!!
  • brave1heartbrave1heart Member Posts: 2,698
    The ODB-II Adaption stuff was an interesting link. I guess he is saying something that anyone who has done extensive testing would know much too well: you need the exact same conditions for a meaningful test of different types of logic. I can see how easy it would be for any tuner to fudge the numbers. As he says, drive like a Sunday driver for a week, dyno it, then drive like a madman next week, dyno it again and you can say that the 10 HP gain is all due to your chip while in fact it's due to an adapted richer fuel/air mixture. Some other interesting points:

    1. The richer the mixture, the better the acceleration. So pushing the car consistently would give you a faster car over time compared to someone who is taking it too easy on the car.

    2. The richer the mixture, the more fuel consumption will go down. I've noticed that the way I drive, my average fuel consumption is still dropping even though I drive pretty much the same routes every week.

    3. I looked at the new dyno chart that ECIS put out for the 325 CAI. What's interesting is that with the CAI, they measured peak HP at the wheels at 200 for the 330 and at 175 for the 325. Any idea what would cause the 41 HP difference in the engine HP rating to shrink so far?
  • huntzingerhuntzinger Member Posts: 356
    IMO, most people are better off overall if they spend the money on a good driving course, instead of some widget that makes ~5 more horsepower.

    We all want to believe that we're "great" drivers, but there's a lot to be said about spending the time to really learn how to handle 9/10ths of what the basic car can do, before trying to 'Spinal Tap' yourself to an "11". In the end, 9/10ths will beat 7/11ths every time.

    All it takes to really humble yourself is one Autocross and watch some guy in a stock Neon thoroughly beat your lap times...don't ask :-)

    -hh
  • ccotenjccotenj Member Posts: 610
    anyone thinking of it...

    please read and memorize shipo's post and huntzingers' post... then go back and read them again...

    chipping does do you some good on a obd i car... sometimes more than some...

    however...

    if you really want to do it on a obd ii car, you should do it as "the whole kit and kiboodle"... cai, exhaust, and software that is programmed for that particular breathing arrangement...

    as dave and huntzinger pointed out, money spent on tires, suspension and driving school will go a lot farther than "nickle and dime" breathing mods... the ONLY way to significantly increase the output is to add forced induction to the engine... regardless of what you read...

    an analogy... if i bought every golf product that was "guaranteed" to add 10 yards off the tee and lower my handicap 5 strokes, i'd be whipping tiger's butt right now...

    -Chris
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    While I do not frequent Bimmer.org (6 visits in 6 months), I happened to see your post there today about the dyno reported HP differences between the 330i and the 325i.

    Since I have not seen the source of the numbers, I can only speculate, so, here goes:

    Assuming both cars were tested in the same shop on the same dyno, and both cars had a manual transmission…

    IF the 325i was driven like at 9.5/10ths for a week or two and then tested on a cold, dry day with high barometric pressure it would very likely produce very high numbers at the wheels. So, that might explain why the horsepower at the wheels was only about 5% below peak factory spec HP at the crankshaft.

    On the other hand, IF, the 330i was tested after being driven for a few weeks by my Grandmother, and then dyno’ed on a hot, humid day with low barometric pressure, there is every chance that that car would not come anywhere near its horsepower potential. So, that might explain why the horsepower at the wheels was down over 12% when compared to peak factory spec HP at the crankshaft.

    If you can find out the climatological conditions at the time of the two tests, and how the two cars were driven prior to their being subjected to the dyno, that would certainly help in the analysis.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • twoof1twoof1 Member Posts: 308
    Brave,
    I believe that the difference is due to the fact that ALL manufacturers quote HP at the crank as opposed to the drive wheels. Hence the loss of power noted is due to the drive train. As noted some time ago, BMW's rear wheel drive seems to be much more efficient in terms of drive train loss as compared to most FWD systems.
    The ECIS dyno shows the stock 325 at 170hp. BMW claims it is rated at 184. the 14hp difference shows what I believe to be a 7.6% drive train power loss.
    Does this sound reasonable?
    What do you guys think?

    huntzinger,
    I agree with the comments re driving schools.

    ccotenj,
    You are right the only way to "significantly" increase power is through forced induction or a stroked motor. All I am looking for is a little more punch. While the 325 is certainly not anemic, there are times when I wish I had a little more ooommph in every day driving situations particularly since I have a step.
  • dave330idave330i Member Posts: 893
    I guess that explains my less than stellar mileage.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    You got that right my friend, and if I used all of the "Health, Beauty and Fitness" aids out there on the market, I would have a body like Arnold Schwarzenegger. ;-)

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • dave330idave330i Member Posts: 893
    But will you have the accent? We all know that's the really important part. ;-)
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Given losses in the transmission, "U-Joints" and "C/V Joints", the differential and the various bearing surfaces, I would think that a 7.6% loss is pretty good, and probably about where BMW would want it to be.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • brave1heartbrave1heart Member Posts: 2,698
    twoof1 - I got the numbers from www.ecisbmw.com. Since they sell both the 325 and 330 CAI, they would be interested in showing the best numbers (overstating if you will) for BOTH the 325 and the 330. So yes, they may use adaptation to their advantage but if they did that, they'd do it for both cars. The numbers of particular interest to me are those for the stock setup. The measured 196 at the wheels for the 330 and 170 HP for the 325. So based on that, it seems that the 330 loses 13% (225 vs. 196) of its engine HP in the process of transferring it to the wheels while the 325 lost < 8%. I would've thought that the 325 would be losing about the same % HP at the wheels as the 330. There are three possibilities:
    1. The 325's official HP rating is understated
    2. The 325 is more efficient at transferring power (not likely)
    3. The tests were done on different days and are not meaningful. It is likely that the results were not obtained under perfect comparison conditions but still, 13% loss vs. 8% loss in otherwise nearly identical cars is mind-boggling... Again, I am assuming that ECIS may be overstating BOTH or NONE of the CAI gains or understating BOTH or NONE of the stock numbers and the 325 numbers should behave approximately the same PERCENTAGE-WISE as the 330.
  • ccotenjccotenj Member Posts: 610
    well...
    some things to think about...

    what's the difference in the clutch assembly between the 2 cars...

    what's the difference in the transmission in the 2 cars (don't know that there is, there might be)...

    and so on...

    things aren't always as they seem on the surface..

    -Chris
  • brave1heartbrave1heart Member Posts: 2,698
    I understand that there may and probably are many differences, as you point out. If anything, though, I would've thought that they would be in favor of the 330...

    I also agree with your statement that it's best to do the triad mod (if any at all) so breathing can be optimized everywhere. Makes a lot of sense. However, are you inclined to believe that just the CAI would produce at least a small gain?
  • MarkinAtlantaMarkinAtlanta Member Posts: 194
    ECIS by itself, yep, small gain, 1-4 hp. Depending on the weather.
  • brave1heartbrave1heart Member Posts: 2,698
    Yep, anything more than that would be too good to be true. What I find really surprising and hard to believe with ECIS's numbers is that the gains on the 325 are even greater than those on the 330!!! I would've thought that there's more room to play with in the 330.
  • ccotenjccotenj Member Posts: 610
    mark's got it right... 2-3 at best... i doubt the butt-dyno could even measure it...

    adding hp just ain't as easy as it used to be... used to be you could just drop a big ol' 4 barrel holly on something and ZOOM ZOOM!! (or in the case of a bimmer, side-draft webers)...

    brave1, actually, i would think the 325, just because i'd be willing to bet that the clutch assembly itself is lighter and has less friction... i agree that 5% difference would seem like a lot, but without analyzing the whole drive train, it's hard to say whether it is or not...

    -Chris
  • dave330idave330i Member Posts: 893
    the only real difference between 325 & 330 was the engine size while rest of the drivetrain was common. Didn't think the power diff was enough to require beefier setup.
  • MarkinAtlantaMarkinAtlanta Member Posts: 194
    I know in the case of the earlier engine (M52), in the 323 and 328, there were some differences in the internals. The camshaft was cast in the 2.5 liter engine and forged for the 2.8 liter engine. Going on memory, there were other 'small' differences too.
  • kominskykominsky Member Posts: 850
    If I'm not mistaking, the 325 uses a Gertrag (or something like that) tranny and the 330 uses a ZF tranny.
  • dave330idave330i Member Posts: 893
    I won't get to drive Laguna Seca until 2002. How disappointing.
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