I have a question for any of y'all who have researched the European Delivery option. Is it possible to do ED and take advantage of the “Performance Delivery Center” in Spartanburg, SC? I am about to place my ED order for April 2002 and need to get all of my facts in order.
If I understand correctly, you want to pick up your ED car in Munich, pick it up again in SC, and drive back to NJ yourself. I've never crossed this but I question this is doable for the following reason that I deem:
The costs of ED to BMW are factored in ED invoice prices and those of SCD are factored in US invoice prices. Unless you pay US price (which would take away one big advantage of ED), I do not think BMW will allow the combination of ED and SCD for the costing reason.
Just my guess though. Your final answer surely can be found at the ED office at 800-932-0831. Good luck.
Thanks for the response. I had not considered the issue of how the pricing is factored for the different delivery methods. Good catch.
I just called Terry at the ED office and she said, "I don't know, I've never been asked that question before. I will have to check with my manager (who is currently out to lunch), and call you back."
Um .. don't you think it's unwise to post your negotiating tactics on this board BEFORE you've met with Braman? Suppose they read this board (likely!) and say, "Hey look, here's Charlee telling everyone how he's gonna get us to knock off $25 off the monthly tomorrow and how he expects to do it! HAHAHA!!! And he loves this car so much and he has nowhere else to go but us! Have I got a surprise for him - I'm gonna jack up the price!!!!"
Just saying, be careful what you post cuz the WORLD READS EDMUNDS!!!
I live in the Cleveland area. If you have had a pleasant experience with a particular dealer, can you recommend any to me? I do not have problem driving a few extra miles. Thanks in advance.
Terry just called me back, and, bad news. You were correct, the ED program cannot be combined with the PDC program in Spartanburg, SC. Oh well, it was just a thought, kinda like having my cake and eating it too. ;-)
well, gee Mark, I hadn't considered that my 50-soemthing salesman at Braman might be an avid-Edmunds reader, but I suppose it is indeed a possibility. I don't consider myself to be a "sly type" neogotiator, more of an, "I know the facts, I'm not looking to starve you, just cut me a tiny bit of slack" type of negotiator. So whether he reads it or not, it doesn't matter. And if they raise the price, I will not buy the car, no matter what! I'll rent a Taurus or ride a bike or take the bus or whatever!!!!
Aside from the criticism, do you have any insight to offer re: how much is the average going lease for a 2002 325 coupe (w/sunroof, power seats and sport pkg. stickers at 33,215 w/metallic paint) THAT's the info I'm REALLY looking for.
I wasn't criticizing you - just offering some advice about posting tactics you plan on using the next day, so you don't sabotage yourself. Just looking out for a fellow Edmundsian. As for info on the BMW, sorry I don't like BMWs much.
I'm dying of suspence here, what car are you choosing for your April ED? Wait, let me guess. A 330i, Silver on Black, PP, SP, Xenon. OK how close am I?
I saw Mark by your post, but look, his name is by everyone's post! (I'm new to this , can you tell??)
Anyway ... I'll go to the dealer tomorrow and see how it goes. I'm very impulsive and if I feel strongly that they are actively trying to work me and won't be a bit reasonable, I'll walk! But then again, maybe I'll fall in love with the car and live happily ever after despite the payment.
Assuming that my math is correct, I *THINK* that I can lease a new 530i, Black Sapphire, Black Leather, PP, SP, Xenon and Premium Sound for about $530 per month (ED, zero down 15K, 36mo).
Given that my business partners and I are trying to keep expenses down a little, I would like to keep the new car payment below $550 per month. If that is not possible, I will opt for the 330i which you hit just about spot on, the only change will be Black Sapphire paint. Good call. ;-)
I live in San Diego and only plan to drive my new BMW 330i 4 door sedan for three years. I really enjoy driving a manual tranny but I heard the resale for the 4 door 330i sedans with manual tranny is terrible. I was also told that they are very hard to sell since almost everyone wants Steptronic automatic tranny.
Anyone experience selling a manual 3 series 4 door sedan lately? Please let me know the interest/responses you have received while trying to sell it?
A 3 series should be one of the easiest deluxe cars to resell with a manual. Buyers of these cars are Espically car -loving entheuists who very often enjoy shifting for themselves. I bet it has one of the highest percentage rates of manual transmissions in its price class. It's the only way I'd buy one.
I have a couple of questions on BMW European Delivery that perhaps someone can answer. I'm looking for a 325i with Premium Package and really nothing else. Is there room to negotiate on price with ED, particularly for a lease? The web page says 7% off MSRP, which is below invoice. How does BMW do this, is it related to somehow bypassing an import quota or are they simply being nice guys and giving people a vacation? My dealer says he makes $1100 on the deal, truth? Out of the box (no negotiation) my dealer quoted me a lease price based on 7% off MSRP but plus 1% dealer up charge, is the dealer up charge common for BMW? Do you begin payments at ED or State side? Is there a law/rule that says you have to be there 7 days or is that just something strange with the web-based planner? Thanks
Q: Is there room to negotiate on price with ED, particularly for a lease? A: $1500 over ED invoice is normal. Not sure about lease. But what is the difference to a dealer in buy or lease as long as he makes same amount of money?
Q: The web page says 7% off MSRP, which is below invoice. How does BMW do this, is it related to somehow bypassing an import quota or are they simply being nice guys and giving people a vacation? A: Not sure exactly how but know for sure BMW does not lose money on this. :-> My guess is (1) Either the German or Bavarian government subsidizes BMW in promoting this feature with the expectation that the ED buyers will spend money in the region. (2) For ED, the buyer is the importer rather than BMW. Import tax may be different. Your window sticker from BMW When delivered in USA after ED will read "Sold To: Your name, Tourist Delivery. If you bought the car in US, the sticker would appear "Sold To: XXX BMW, STATE, USA" (3) BMW can get their capital back months earlier than normal US delivery b/c ED buyers pay 1 mo before ED pickup. But I do not see the interest can be such a deal.
Q: My dealer says he makes $1100 on the deal, truth? Out of the box (no negotiation) my dealer quoted me a lease price based on 7% off MSRP but plus 1% dealer up charge, is the dealer up charge common for BMW? A: Always negotiate over ED invoice. And remember, ED is easy money for any dealer as it does not take any of his allotment. As said, $1500 over ED invoice is normal and $1000 over can be done.
Q: Do you begin payments at ED or State side? A: You take financing at least one month before ED. First bill normally arrives on your ED trip departure date!
Q: Is there a law/rule that says you have to be there 7 days or is that just something strange with the web-based planner? A: No minimum. One day is fine.
I want to maximize my car's performance, and I understand that the K&N filters actually remove more junk from the air AND allow better air flow. However, I have heard that BMW's air intake is optimized so well that the K&N filter offers very limited improvement.
I will probably ask around at my dealership concerning their take on things. I just want this car to run at its best.
Thanks for the insight Bing! Sounds like you've btdt. My guess on the cost savings to BMW is your #2, although I wouldn't be surprised if its a combination of all three. I'm lucky to have two dealers in about equal proximity and another one not too far out of the way, so I'm going to work to find the best deal (but you gotta wonder if $500 is worth more than a few phone calls effort?)
New question: Anyone out there have personal crash test experience? My wife is a safety fanatic. We currently drive 2 Expeditions (at different times, of course) safety for one reason, three boys for another and a great lease incentive in 2000 for a third. However, I don't really need the size on my commute (no SUV owner admits that!) and really miss driving a vehicle as opposed to navigating one. On the other hand, I still want something safe, hence the interest in Euro machines. I think the 325i is a nice combination of sport/luxury, seems reasonable in terms of reliability and cost v. marquee value, but haven't read much about safety. I expect cost for repairs but personal injury is the real issue.
Just got my 330i sedan 5 sp manual. Tell me the advantage of 5th gear being direct drive as opposed to overdrive. I do a moderate amount of highway speed driving and note tach sitting close to 3,000 rpm at highway speeds. Wouldn't an overdrive provide for less wear and tear and improved mpg? I agree pick up from 55-70 is excellent and does not need downshift to 4th. Is this the reason to keep this gear a non-overdrive? I shouldn't be worried about wear and tear, only have 550 mi so far..
Your dealer is feeding you lies if they tell you they're only making $1100 by selling to you at the European Delivery "list" price. Don't be swayed by the fact that ED MSRP is about 7% below US MSRP because no one pays MSRP (very few, anyway). Here are the numbers:
2002 325i with PP
US MSRP (sticker): $30,445 US Invoice (what dealer pays): $27,490 Potential Dealer Profit: $2,955
ED MSRP (what it sounds like your dealer wants you to pay): $28,445 ED Invoice (what dealer pays): $25,625 Potential Dealer Profit: $2,820
As for the deals folks are getting, yes most doing ED seem to be able to negotiate $1500 over ED invoice price which means that the dealer makes $1500. I got $1425 over ED invoice on my 2002 330i. Some (I forget names) who have apparently been repeat customers claim to have gotten $1000 over ED invoice but I never saw the numbers which convinced me of that.
Never heard of a dealer "up charge" although it is quite common for dealers to tack on up to an extra point (1%) to the BMW finance rate when you're doing a lease or loan through BMW.
Overall, it sounds like you could do better. If they're not being honest with you now before you've even purchased, what's it going to be like when you're trying to get service?
Nothing filters as well as the stock paper filter. The K&N filter breathes better but it MAY be at the expense of long-term engine durability. The power gain (if any) would be unnoticeable, especially on a 330. I've heard that it does not fit perfectly in the E46 either. You probably know that you have to clean it periodically - to me, it seems more hassle than it's worth. Just like you, I was also considering a K&N filter a few months back and decided against it. It would be worth putting one in if you optimize breathing all-around (CAI, exhaust, etc.).
It may seem that way to us but in reality, there are very few people that read it. I wish salespeople read it so they'd know more about the product they sell - they should learn from gurumike and Jon Shafer. Ironically, most of them are too busy selling cars to be reading Internet boards and/or learning about what they sell.
mitchs3... Looks like you have the physics all figured out. Is a matter of preference. How much do you value accelerating a bit quicker at high speeds without downshifting versus getting improved MPG, reduced engine wear, and lower engine noise at higher speeds.
If you ever want to see the value of a good overdrive 5th or 6th gear manual tranny, take a Lexus IS300 out for a spin and get her up to 75 or 80 mph. The gearing forces really high highway RPMs and ruins what could be a moderately high MPG trip at decent noise levels. IS300 manual gets pretty poor highway mileage considering its size, weight, engine, and tranny.
And is interesting that BMW will give you overdrive 5th with the automatic. My wife's '00 323iA (with shiftronic & sport modes) has overdrive 5th. It turns over at lower RPMs at interstate speeds than does your more powerful 330i. That gets it better gas mileage, lower engine wear, and reduced engine noise at speed.
If you need to accelerate quickly at 65 or 75 mph (which might happen mostly on rural 2-lane roads when passing), is it too much to downshift into 4th or even 3rd? I'll downshift any day to get the benefits of more efficient highend gearing. I'm most glad my '98 540i 6-speed has an overdrive 6th! She'll get highway mileage close to a non-overdrive 330i or 530i manual. I got 24 mpg at 74 mph on recent 500 mile trip.
Thanks Nobee for the reference. Currently do not own a vehicle and have not for over a year--manage rather nicely. However, saving to purchase a BMW 330 Ci Coupe. BMW for 2002 is offering the 330 Ci Coupe in Germany (Deutschland) to its customers with the SMG. I am willing to wait until that feature is available in the U.S. or until, if possible, I can purchase it through European Delivery. I have contacted BMW of North America and I am waiting for a response. Nobee, if you or anyone can add a hopeful note as to the prospects the SMG becoming available to me anytime soon, please let me know. Apropos, I am an avid follower of Formula One racing and have watched with interest the many technological developments taking place at the leading edge of automotive design, particularly the SMG which I consider the current best compromise between automatic and manual transmission.
Sounds like the optimal set up is a 6 sp manual with 6th being overdrive. My business partner has Audi A6 2.7T with 6 sp manual. I have always been fuel economy conscious however I'll try not to look at the tach at 3,000 while at highway speeds. Noise is not a problem in 330i as it remains very quiet. Hopefully by the time this lease is up (2004) a 6 sp w/overdrive will be offered in 3 series for my next car
Thanks for the input, like someone else said, never trust a salesman. I haven't begun negotiating but just asked for a price. You guys might end up saving me a lot of money! Where did you get the ED invoice price?
I believe that the advantage of direct drive is that in 5th gear, there is practically no power loss in the transmission. The final drive ratio can be adjusted to design in any desired RPM level for a given speed. I saw somewhere that the gas mileage specification of the 330 is slightly better than the 325. It could be due in part to the 5th gear direct drive, assuming the 325 does not have it.
I have had my new 330xi since mid November and it now has just over 3000 km. The check engine indicator has come and gone five times so far (no loose gas cap) and I think I have noticed a pattern. It always comes on when I am driving and it is more frequent in cold weather. It seems related to environmental effects such as following a car that is running cold and has smelly fumes. Twice, it happened when following a car on an acceleration ramp to a highway. Can anyone comment on this?
Technically speaking, a final drive ratio of 1:1 is more efficient than an overdrive. Given that inside a manual transmission (I assume that is what we are discussing here) a 1:1 ratio gives you a straight path through the transmission (ie. the input shaft is directly connected to the output shaft), as opposed to having gearing transfer the power from the input shaft to a secondary shaft and then back to the output shaft. I do not remember the actual ratings (I read this number back in the 1970s), however, it is something like 1:1 = >99% efficient while an overdrive (or any other non 1:1 gear) yields something like 92%. Another issue with gearing is the final drive ratio, instead of having a 0.89:1 overdrive with a 4.13:1 final drive gear, BMW uses a 1:1 ratio in the transmission and something like a 2.89:1 final drive. In the end, you can achieve the same engine RPM with or without an overdrive by just simply playing with the final drive ratio.
"...As an option, the new 4-cylinder petrol engine may be combined with a fivespeed automatic transmission replacing the former four-speed version. While this automatic transmission is ideal for all motorists focusing on maximum gearshift comfort and only occasionally shifting gears by means of the integrated STEPTRONIC function, a further innovation now featured in the 3 Series reflects an entirely different philosophy: This is the Sequential Manual Gearbox (SMG) now available as an option on the 325i and 330i sedan and coup?models as a further sign of the 3 Series?pledge to performance. The name of the game in this case is to shift gears like in Formula 1 via paddles on the steering wheel, without even pressing a clutch. Clearly, this special feature focuses primarily on the passionate sports driver thrilled by the short gearshift times offered by automatic operation of the clutch and an automatic gearshift. (SMG will not be offered on 325 and 330 models in the US)... " It doesn't look like the SMG option is going to make it over the pond... -nobee
ED invoices can be found on eurobuyers.com. ED options invoices are same as US ones.
It is up to you if you want to go further to find few hundreds$ savings. Here in southern Cali, over 20 dealers within 100 mi promixy. so the compitetion is in my favor. Depending where you live, you can buy from a out-of-state dealer and ship to you for $250-$500.
For ED, your out of door price should only include: = ED invoices, = dealer profit ($1500 or so), = doc fee ($45 in CA), = tax on the top of the above (your county;s sales tax, not your dealer's), = license ($270 in CA) = $5 govt fee (in CA) Nothing else, no advertising fee and so on.
Be aware if you finance your car, a dealer may (actually often) give you low quote but high APR which eventually can be more costly to you. Most banks do not finance you on ED because of lienholder issue. peoplefirst.com can be a good alternative that do ED financing and also offer low APR.
Thanks for the input, like someone else said, never trust a salesman. I haven't begun negotiating but just asked for a price. You guys might end up saving me a lot of money! Where did you get the ED invoice price?
Using the 2001 3 Series brochure and 2002 5 Series brochure... Is interesting that ALL the automatics use overdrive 5th (ranging in 3 Series from .74 in 325i & 330i to .76 in 325xi and .75 in 330xi; and ranging from .75 in 525i & 530i to .80 in 540i). ALL the 5-speed manuals use direct 5th; however, the 540i's 6-speed manual is overdrive (.83).
The final drive ratios for all the 5-speed automatics is more aggressive (numerically higher) than in the corresponding 5-speed manual. 3 Series automatics ranging from 3.38 in 330i to 3.46 in 325i, 325xi, & 330xi. 5 Series automatics ranging from 3.46 in 525i & 530i to 2.81 in 540iA and 3.15 in 540iA Sport. The highest numerical manual's final drive is 3.23 (for 325xi); the lowest is 2.93 (330i & 530i). The 540i 6-speed is the low 2.81 final drive.
The overall final ratio in 5th for 325i automatic is 2.56 verus 2.50 in 330i automatic. Compared to 3.15 for 325i manual and 2.93 in 330i manual. This helps explain why with similar weight and equal CD (.31) the more aggressively geared 325i manual is rated 20/29 by EPA versus 21/30 for 330i manual. The 325i manual is more aggressively geared due to its 3.15 final drive. But the EPA mileage figures are identical (19/27) for the 325i and 330i automatics (which have much more similar overall ratios in 5th).
Seeing the RPMs for my wife's '00 323iA and my '98 540i 6-speed, both with overdrive, I'll KEEP the overdrive and engine better mileage and lower engine RPMs at interstate and higher speeds.
You might want to take your car to your local BMW service center and have them look for fault codes. When my check engine light went on, it turned out to be a faulty thermostat detected by the On board Diagnostic system. A faulty thermostat would also support your observation that the check engine light goes on and off with changes outside temperature.
"grege" posted the following about his experience in a post numbered 6255 on June 25, 2001. I thought it spoke volumes about safety featuers of the 325:
Although I have been reading this board for many months, this is my first post. Three weeks ago, I purchased a new 325i that was sitting on the dealer's lot. It had just been unloaded from the truck the night before. I jumped on the chance to buy it. The next day, while I was enjoying a little drive, a gentleman in a big truck didn't see his red light while I was making a left turn on a green arrow. He hit me broadside (passenger side) in excess of 50 mph. It pushed my car across 3 lanes of traffic into another car sitting at the light. Thankfully, no one was hurt, and the car held up incredibly well. All the safety systems worked as advertised. Of course, the car was totaled. Naturally, once the insurance stuff was settled, I had my dealership looking for another one just like the first. I was fortunate that they had one almost like the first, but with the addition of the Premium Package. I would just like to thank everyone for sharing their experiences, which caused me to want the car in the first place. And now after the accident, I know that not only is it the "Ultimate Driving Machine", but also the Ultimate Safety Machine as well. It's a wonderful feeling to be driving such a car that handles so well, with the additional knowledge that if ever in an accident, the people inside will be protected like few other cars on the road. Thanks again for all your insight. I look forward to posting in the future. Thanks, Greg
Based on my homework, ED savings are a function of:
1. The relative strength of the Dollar versus the DM (soon to be Euro). I may be a little off in my numbers, but generally, a comparable BMW 3 series purchased for MSRP in Germany that would cost $30K in the US would cost about $20K in US dollars in Germany given current exchange rates. If you could walk into a German BMW dealer and buy such a vehicle, you would still have to spend thousands to convert the vehicle to US emissions and safety specs, and pay for your own shipping and logistics. In my mind, ED sort of splits the difference in savings.
2. The tarrifs and duties for importing a "used" car into the US are far less than importing a "new" car. Technically, BMW is not even importing a car under ED. You are using a third-party shipping firm (Harms) to ship your used car on your behalf.
Follow-up on insurance: Theft while in Europe is covered with a 10% deductible. Driving into the former Eastern Bloc countries is permissible, unless you are leasing through BMW Financial, where this is prohibited and you have no theft insurance.
Just purchased a 330i from Midwestern BMW in Columbus. I got sick of local Chicago area dealers holding the line on ED MSRP pricing and decided to go out-of-state. These guys came highly recommended.
Ask for Steve Topolosky or Eric Robare 614.889.2571, ext. 152 or 157. They're great people and not as far away from you.
I will not be able to get to a BMW service centre for a while. A service manager I spoke to after the first instance thought it was emission control related and suggested I bring the car in if it did not clear up after a few starts.
Where there other symptoms of the faulty thermostat? My temperature gauge is rock steady.
The only correlation with weather is that it occurred twice within two days since the temperature turned cold, but in both cases, I noticed smelly exhaust fumes from another car nearby at the time it turned on.
The check engine indicator always comes on while driving, but was reset every time when starting the car after two to six re-starts. It does not flicker on and off. Four times out of five times that the indicator came on, the engine was completely warmed up, even near the end of 200 and 300 km trips. It never occurred on open highways or on roads away from traffic.
hgeyer, I just took a look at the "Configurator" on the www.bmw.de site and if anything, the prices on Bimmers seem to be higher in Germany than they are with US Euro Delivery. For example, I configured my own 330i (steel grey with SP, CWP, Sunroof, CD, H/K, etc.) and got a price of 42,280 Euros or 82,692 DM. That's about $37,400 which is quite a bit more than the $35K I paid for mine including taxes and tags. I'm not sure if those German prices include VAT. Interestingly, the German price seems to work out not too far from the non-ED US price, so I guess it's somewhat comforting that we're not getting shafted too badly. Now if we could only get the cloth seats, sun shades, diesel power, etc.
My experience with the check engine light was that it came on and stayed on whenever the engine ran. In my case as in yours, the needle of the temperature gauge stayed firmly over the thermometer symbol in the center of the gauge but the car took a lot longer to warm up than before the failure. Before the failure, the needle of temperature gauge would reach the thermometer symbol within one mile after the car's idle dropped to normal after an initial cold start (in the summer). After the thermostat failed, the car would take about five miles to warm up after the initial idle dropped. I don't have a good enough idea about how the thermostat fails or what turns on the check engine light to comment with confidence about the light's action when re-starting the car or traveling for some time as you have indicated. I do know that unlike some cars where the thermostat just stops the circulation of antifreeze when the engine is cool, the thermostat on the BMW will circulate warming antifreeze from the engine back into the engine until it has reached operating temperature. After that point, the thermostat begins to circulate antifreeze into the radiator for cooling. The thermostat's position will change depending on the car's temperature, idle speed and other factors to promote optimal combustion at all engine speeds. The car's combustion computer has some control over the thermostat's position through a heating coil in the thermostat. Not necessarily a simple thing to diagnose.
It is a bit expensive at $120.00 but has a fantastic amount of information about the car both from a maintenance and "how-do-they-do-it" standpoints. In the past, I have found these manuals pay for themselves either in giving you an idea if you can do some maintenance work yourself or to provide you with the steps to do it.
Is a CD changer installed stateside, or can it be installed at time of European Delivery? I'm planning for a 325 xit with navigation system. I'd hate not to be able to listen to CD's while driving in Europe for a week.
Yes, I believe the CD Changer is dealer-installed once the car arrives in the US. However, you could probably find a German dealer to install one for you and I'm sure it would cost less...
A while back, someone has posted information about a service bulletin for rattles in the B-pillar. I would appreciate it very much if anyone could give me more information? Where would I look for BMW service bulletins?
Hello all, this is my first time posting at Edmunds, but I have been a long time reader. I appreciate the insight I get on the boards. Anyway, I am in the process of shopping for a replacement for a leased SAAB 9-5 SE 2.3T 5sp. (comes due in September) and I am currently looking at and have tested the A4 3.0Q w/SP and the 325i w/o SP. I test drove an Acura TL-S, and except for its engine, found it inferior to the others. After test driving the A4 and 325i, both with manuals, I find the 325i much more enjoyable to drive. Contrary to some posts that I have read, I had no trouble whatsoever with the clutch engagement with the 3, even on steep grades. It's engine felt stronger and the power delivery more linear than that of the larger displacement A4 3.0. Also, the 3's manual blew the A4's away, in fact the Audi's is notchier than my SAAB's. the handling of the 325i was terrific even without the SP. I live in Cincinnati and this makes Quattro seem pretty compelling over the RWD 325i. This has changed my focus to the 325ix. If this winter is not very bad this will not be an issue, but there is something in knowing that if the weather got bad, I would be secure with AWD. Does anyone have any insight on a 325ix. I am planning on purchasing this one and plan on keeping it for a while. I have never seen a higher mileage Audi that didn't have some kind of electrical problem. How is the reliability been on the 3-series? Any insight would be very much appreciated. Have a Happy New Year!
A while back, someone has posted information about a service bulletin for rattles in the B-pillar. I would appreciate it very much if anyone could give me more information? Where would I look for BMW service bulletins?
#11090 of 11124 Seat belt rattle cont..... by twoof1 Nov 29, 2001 (05:53 am) This is for all of you who were told that if your car was mfg. after March 2001 that the TSB #720101 does not apply to you. I thought you might find it interesting that I emailed BMW through the BMW Owners Circle web site questioning the date range of the TSB. Here is the response I received: "Mr. Woolf, Thank you for your patience. The Service Bulletin #720101 does not specify production dates. If you are experiencing problems with the seat belts in your vehicle , please contact the Service Department at your authorized BMW Center. Thank you for contacting BMW Customer Relations 800-831-1117" According to them, there is NO date range on the service bulletin. Good luck, I hope this helps.
The engine seems to warm up very quickly, so hopefully it is not a thermostat problem. It is completely warmed up with the needle dead centre in the range within 2.5 km of my house on my way to work. It does not seem that different in cold weather. The indicator has been off for four days now. I will have it looked at next week in any case.
I have heard of thermostat and fan problems with the 2001 model. Is there any reported problem with the 2002 model?
Bing: Checked out the eurobuyers home page and found the list invoice prices, thanks. Have you used the eurobuyers service and did it help?
dg95: I'm also looking in Cincinnati, would appreciate hearing your experiences and who get to deal. Not sure I agree that AWD is necessary here though. We had that major ice last Wednesday but that's maybe once every other year. Don't get me wrong, I would have loved it that night, but even my RWD Expedition made it around well enough to inch home. My tcw.
I am pasting here a post from someone whose opinion I respect very much. I agree with most of what he's saying. As an FYI, he used to own an Audi and now he owns an E36 M3.
"When you compare the AWD systems on the Audi, BMW and Jag, the technology employed is quite different.
Only the Audi uses a true diff to distribute power between the four wheels. BMW's system dumps the power equally (sans diff) but uses each wheel's brakes when slippage at that wheel is detected. In significant snows, you can basically overheat your brakes before you're even able to move which, needless to say, will leave you stuck. IIRC, the Jag's system is closer to the BMW's than it is to the Audi's.
But, short of getting a Subaru, the Audi has the best AWD system. And BMW's is really the worst. You don't buy BMWs for AWD. BMWs are meant to be RWD. There's a reason BMW isn't even trying to sell it's AWD 3-series in Europe."
I can only add that the A4 1.8T Q Avant pulled in better lap time than the 325xi wagon (both equipped with identical snow tires) in C&D's test on a snow and ice track, and it achieved that despite its 14 HP deficiency.
Comments
Thanks in advance.
Best Regards,
Shipo
The costs of ED to BMW are factored in ED invoice prices and those of SCD are factored in US invoice prices. Unless you pay US price (which would take away one big advantage of ED), I do not think BMW will allow the combination of ED and SCD for the costing reason.
Just my guess though. Your final answer surely can be found at the ED office at 800-932-0831. Good luck.
I just called Terry at the ED office and she said, "I don't know, I've never been asked that question before. I will have to check with my manager (who is currently out to lunch), and call you back."
When she does, I will post the response.
Best Regards,
Shipo
Just saying, be careful what you post cuz the WORLD READS EDMUNDS!!!
Best Regards,
Shipo
Aside from the criticism, do you have any insight to offer re: how much is the average going lease for a 2002 325 coupe (w/sunroof, power seats and sport pkg. stickers at 33,215 w/metallic paint) THAT's the info I'm REALLY looking for.
PS -- I'm a girl :-)
I wasn't criticizing you - just offering some advice about posting tactics you plan on using the next day, so you don't sabotage yourself. Just looking out for a fellow Edmundsian. As for info on the BMW, sorry I don't like BMWs much.
Anyway ... I'll go to the dealer tomorrow and see how it goes. I'm very impulsive and if I feel strongly that they are actively trying to work me and won't be a bit reasonable, I'll walk! But then again, maybe I'll fall in love with the car and live happily ever after despite the payment.
You never can tell...
Thanks for the input :-)
Assuming that my math is correct, I *THINK* that I can lease a new 530i, Black Sapphire, Black Leather, PP, SP, Xenon and Premium Sound for about $530 per month (ED, zero down 15K, 36mo).
Given that my business partners and I are trying to keep expenses down a little, I would like to keep the new car payment below $550 per month. If that is not possible, I will opt for the 330i which you hit just about spot on, the only change will be Black Sapphire paint. Good call. ;-)
Best Regards,
Shipo
Anyone experience selling a manual 3 series 4 door sedan lately? Please let me know the interest/responses you have received while trying to sell it?
Is there room to negotiate on price with ED, particularly for a lease?
The web page says 7% off MSRP, which is below invoice. How does BMW do this, is it related to somehow bypassing an import quota or are they simply being nice guys and giving people a vacation?
My dealer says he makes $1100 on the deal, truth?
Out of the box (no negotiation) my dealer quoted me a lease price based on 7% off MSRP but plus 1% dealer up charge, is the dealer up charge common for BMW?
Do you begin payments at ED or State side?
Is there a law/rule that says you have to be there 7 days or is that just something strange with the web-based planner?
Thanks
A: $1500 over ED invoice is normal. Not sure about lease. But what is the difference to a dealer in buy or lease as long as he makes same amount of money?
Q: The web page says 7% off MSRP, which is below invoice. How does BMW do this, is it related to somehow bypassing an import quota or are they simply being nice guys and giving people a vacation?
A: Not sure exactly how but know for sure BMW does not lose money on this. :-> My guess is
(1) Either the German or Bavarian government subsidizes BMW in promoting this feature with the expectation that the ED buyers will spend money in the region.
(2) For ED, the buyer is the importer rather than BMW. Import tax may be different. Your window sticker from BMW When delivered in USA after ED will read "Sold To: Your name, Tourist Delivery. If you bought the car in US, the sticker would appear "Sold To: XXX BMW, STATE, USA"
(3) BMW can get their capital back months earlier than normal US delivery b/c ED buyers pay 1 mo before ED pickup. But I do not see the interest can be such a deal.
Q: My dealer says he makes $1100 on the deal, truth? Out of the box (no negotiation) my dealer quoted me a lease price based on 7% off MSRP but plus 1% dealer up charge, is the dealer up charge common for BMW?
A: Always negotiate over ED invoice. And remember, ED is easy money for any dealer as it does not take any of his allotment. As said, $1500 over ED invoice is normal and $1000 over can be done.
Q: Do you begin payments at ED or State side?
A: You take financing at least one month before ED. First bill normally arrives on your ED trip departure date!
Q: Is there a law/rule that says you have to be there 7 days or is that just something strange with the web-based planner?
A: No minimum. One day is fine.
Good luck.
I will probably ask around at my dealership concerning their take on things. I just want this car to run at its best.
New question: Anyone out there have personal crash test experience? My wife is a safety fanatic. We currently drive 2 Expeditions (at different times, of course) safety for one reason, three boys for another and a great lease incentive in 2000 for a third. However, I don't really need the size on my commute (no SUV owner admits that!) and really miss driving a vehicle as opposed to navigating one. On the other hand, I still want something safe, hence the interest in Euro machines. I think the 325i is a nice combination of sport/luxury, seems reasonable in terms of reliability and cost v. marquee value, but haven't read much about safety. I expect cost for repairs but personal injury is the real issue.
2002 325i with PP
US MSRP (sticker): $30,445
US Invoice (what dealer pays): $27,490
Potential Dealer Profit: $2,955
ED MSRP (what it sounds like your dealer wants you to pay): $28,445
ED Invoice (what dealer pays): $25,625
Potential Dealer Profit: $2,820
As for the deals folks are getting, yes most doing ED seem to be able to negotiate $1500 over ED invoice price which means that the dealer makes $1500. I got $1425 over ED invoice on my 2002 330i. Some (I forget names) who have apparently been repeat customers claim to have gotten $1000 over ED invoice but I never saw the numbers which convinced me of that.
Never heard of a dealer "up charge" although it is quite common for dealers to tack on up to an extra point (1%) to the BMW finance rate when you're doing a lease or loan through BMW.
Overall, it sounds like you could do better. If they're not being honest with you now before you've even purchased, what's it going to be like when you're trying to get service?
If you ever want to see the value of a good overdrive 5th or 6th gear manual tranny, take a Lexus IS300 out for a spin and get her up to 75 or 80 mph. The gearing forces really high highway RPMs and ruins what could be a moderately high MPG trip at decent noise levels. IS300 manual gets pretty poor highway mileage considering its size, weight, engine, and tranny.
And is interesting that BMW will give you overdrive 5th with the automatic. My wife's '00 323iA (with shiftronic & sport modes) has overdrive 5th. It turns over at lower RPMs at interstate speeds than does your more powerful 330i. That gets it better gas mileage, lower engine wear, and reduced engine noise at speed.
If you need to accelerate quickly at 65 or 75 mph (which might happen mostly on rural 2-lane roads when passing), is it too much to downshift into 4th or even 3rd? I'll downshift any day to get the benefits of more efficient highend gearing. I'm most glad my '98 540i 6-speed has an overdrive 6th! She'll get highway mileage close to a non-overdrive 330i or 530i manual. I got 24 mpg at 74 mph on recent 500 mile trip.
I have had my new 330xi since mid November and it now has just over 3000 km. The check engine indicator has come and gone five times so far (no loose gas cap) and I think I have noticed a pattern. It always comes on when I am driving and it is more frequent in cold weather. It seems related to environmental effects such as following a car that is running cold and has smelly fumes. Twice, it happened when following a car on an acceleration ramp to a highway. Can anyone comment on this?
Hope this helps.
Best Regards,
Shipo
"...As an option, the new 4-cylinder petrol engine may be combined with a fivespeed automatic transmission replacing the former four-speed version. While this automatic transmission is ideal for all motorists focusing on maximum gearshift comfort and only occasionally shifting gears by means of the integrated STEPTRONIC function, a further innovation now featured in the 3 Series reflects an entirely different philosophy: This is the Sequential Manual Gearbox (SMG) now available as an option on the 325i and 330i sedan and coup?models as a further sign of the 3 Series?pledge to performance. The name of the game in this case is to shift gears like in Formula 1 via paddles on the steering wheel, without even pressing a clutch. Clearly, this special feature focuses primarily on the passionate sports driver thrilled by the short gearshift times offered by automatic operation of the clutch and an automatic gearshift. (SMG will not be offered on 325 and 330 models in the US)... "
It doesn't look like the SMG option is going to make it over the pond...
-nobee
NHTSA: http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/testing/ncap/Cars.cfm
European New Car Assessment Programme (Euro NCAS): http://www.fia.com/homepage/selection-a.html
I believe in 1999 the first model year of current 3ers got the highest safety ranking from NHTSA.
ED invoices can be found on eurobuyers.com. ED options invoices are same as US ones.
It is up to you if you want to go further to find few hundreds$ savings. Here in southern Cali, over 20 dealers within 100 mi promixy. so the compitetion is in my favor. Depending where you live, you can buy from a out-of-state dealer and ship to you for $250-$500.
For ED, your out of door price should only include:
= ED invoices,
= dealer profit ($1500 or so),
= doc fee ($45 in CA),
= tax on the top of the above (your county;s sales tax, not your dealer's),
= license ($270 in CA)
= $5 govt fee (in CA)
Nothing else, no advertising fee and so on.
Be aware if you finance your car, a dealer may (actually often) give you low quote but high APR which eventually can be more costly to you. Most banks do not finance you on ED because of lienholder issue. peoplefirst.com can be a good alternative that do ED financing and also offer low APR.
Good luck.
The final drive ratios for all the 5-speed automatics is more aggressive (numerically higher) than in the corresponding 5-speed manual. 3 Series automatics ranging from 3.38 in 330i to 3.46 in 325i, 325xi, & 330xi. 5 Series automatics ranging from 3.46 in 525i & 530i to 2.81 in 540iA and 3.15 in 540iA Sport. The highest numerical manual's final drive is 3.23 (for 325xi); the lowest is 2.93 (330i & 530i). The 540i 6-speed is the low 2.81 final drive.
The overall final ratio in 5th for 325i automatic is 2.56 verus 2.50 in 330i automatic. Compared to 3.15 for 325i manual and 2.93 in 330i manual. This helps explain why with similar weight and equal CD (.31) the more aggressively geared 325i manual is rated 20/29 by EPA versus 21/30 for 330i manual. The 325i manual is more aggressively geared due to its 3.15 final drive. But the EPA mileage figures are identical (19/27) for the 325i and 330i automatics (which have much more similar overall ratios in 5th).
Seeing the RPMs for my wife's '00 323iA and my '98 540i 6-speed, both with overdrive, I'll KEEP the overdrive and engine better mileage and lower engine RPMs at interstate and higher speeds.
Although I have been reading this board for many months, this is my first post. Three weeks ago, I purchased a new 325i that was sitting on the dealer's lot. It had just been unloaded from the truck the night before. I jumped on the chance to buy it.
The next day, while I was enjoying a little drive, a gentleman in a big truck didn't see his red light while I was making a left turn on a green arrow. He hit me broadside (passenger side) in excess of 50 mph. It pushed my car across 3 lanes of traffic into another car sitting at the light. Thankfully, no one was hurt, and the car held up incredibly well. All the safety systems worked as advertised. Of course, the car was totaled.
Naturally, once the insurance stuff was settled, I had my dealership looking for another one just like the first. I was fortunate that they had one almost like the first, but with the addition of the Premium Package.
I would just like to thank everyone for sharing their experiences, which caused me to want the car in the first place. And now after the accident, I know that not only is it the "Ultimate Driving Machine", but also the Ultimate Safety Machine as well. It's a wonderful feeling to be driving such a car that handles so well, with the additional knowledge that if ever in an accident, the people inside will be protected like few other cars on the road.
Thanks again for all your insight. I look forward to posting in the future.
Thanks,
Greg
1. The relative strength of the Dollar versus the DM (soon to be Euro). I may be a little off in my numbers, but generally, a comparable BMW 3 series purchased for MSRP in Germany that would cost $30K in the US would cost about $20K in US dollars in Germany given current exchange rates. If you could walk into a German BMW dealer and buy such a vehicle, you would still have to spend thousands to convert the vehicle to US emissions and safety specs, and pay for your own shipping and logistics. In my mind, ED sort of splits the difference in savings.
2. The tarrifs and duties for importing a "used" car into the US are far less than importing a "new" car. Technically, BMW is not even importing a car under ED. You are using a third-party shipping firm (Harms) to ship your used car on your behalf.
Follow-up on insurance:
Theft while in Europe is covered with a 10% deductible. Driving into the former Eastern Bloc countries is permissible, unless you are leasing through BMW Financial, where this is prohibited and you have no theft insurance.
11 more days till Munich....
Ask for Steve Topolosky or Eric Robare 614.889.2571, ext. 152 or 157. They're great people and not as far away from you.
Where there other symptoms of the faulty thermostat? My temperature gauge is rock steady.
The only correlation with weather is that it occurred twice within two days since the temperature turned cold, but in both cases, I noticed smelly exhaust fumes from another car nearby at the time it turned on.
The check engine indicator always comes on while driving, but was reset every time when starting the car after two to six re-starts. It does not flicker on and off. Four times out of five times that the indicator came on, the engine was completely warmed up, even near the end of 200 and 300 km trips. It never occurred on open highways or on roads away from traffic.
Before the failure, the needle of temperature gauge would reach the thermometer symbol within one mile after the car's idle dropped to normal after an initial cold start (in the summer). After the thermostat failed, the car would take about five miles to warm up after the initial idle dropped.
I don't have a good enough idea about how the thermostat fails or what turns on the check engine light to comment with confidence about the light's action when re-starting the car or traveling for some time as you have indicated.
I do know that unlike some cars where the thermostat just stops the circulation of antifreeze when the engine is cool, the thermostat on the BMW will circulate warming antifreeze from the engine back into the engine until it has reached operating temperature. After that point, the thermostat begins to circulate antifreeze into the radiator for cooling. The thermostat's position will change depending on the car's temperature, idle speed and other factors to promote optimal combustion at all engine speeds. The car's combustion computer has some control over the thermostat's position through a heating coil in the thermostat. Not necessarily a simple thing to diagnose.
It is a bit expensive at $120.00 but has a fantastic amount of information about the car both from a maintenance and "how-do-they-do-it" standpoints. In the past, I have found these manuals pay for themselves either in giving you an idea if you can do some maintenance work yourself or to provide you with the steps to do it.
Audi that didn't have some kind of electrical problem. How is the reliability been on the 3-series? Any insight would be very much appreciated. Have a Happy New Year!
This is for all of you who were told that if your car was mfg. after March 2001 that the TSB #720101 does not apply to you. I thought you might find it interesting that I emailed BMW through the BMW Owners Circle web site questioning the date range of the TSB. Here is the response I received:
"Mr. Woolf,
Thank you for your patience. The Service Bulletin #720101 does not specify production dates. If you are experiencing problems with the seat belts in your vehicle , please contact the Service Department at your authorized BMW Center.
Thank you for contacting BMW
Customer Relations
800-831-1117"
According to them, there is NO date range on the service bulletin.
Good luck, I hope this helps.
I have heard of thermostat and fan problems with the 2001 model. Is there any reported problem with the 2002 model?
dg95: I'm also looking in Cincinnati, would appreciate hearing your experiences and who get to deal. Not sure I agree that AWD is necessary here though. We had that major ice last Wednesday but that's maybe once every other year. Don't get me wrong, I would have loved it that night, but even my RWD Expedition made it around well enough to inch home. My tcw.
"When you compare the AWD systems on the Audi, BMW and Jag, the technology employed is quite different.
Only the Audi uses a true diff to distribute power between the four wheels. BMW's system dumps the power equally (sans diff) but uses each wheel's brakes when slippage at that wheel is detected. In significant snows, you can basically overheat your brakes before you're even able to move which, needless to say, will leave you stuck. IIRC, the Jag's system is closer to the BMW's than it is to the Audi's.
But, short of getting a Subaru, the Audi has the best AWD system. And BMW's is really the worst. You don't buy BMWs for AWD. BMWs are meant to be RWD. There's a reason BMW isn't even trying to sell it's AWD 3-series in Europe."
I can only add that the A4 1.8T Q Avant pulled in better lap time than the 325xi wagon (both equipped with identical snow tires) in C&D's test on a snow and ice track, and it achieved that despite its 14 HP deficiency.