BMW 3-Series 2005 and earlier

div2

My wife's 3er came with Conti all-season rim protectors. I fitted Michelin XM+S Alpins for winter and the handling, NVH, and ride were superior to the Contis. Heck, the Contis would squeal if you gave them a stern look. FWIW, her 5er just got a set of Artic Alpins and they are not noticibly superior to the OEM Michelin all seasons. The Kuhmo Ecsta 712s are a terrific tire for the price. I have a set on the Club Sport and have been very pleased. Definitely not a winter tire, however.

dave330i

thanks for the input. Looks like I'll be going with Kumhos next spring. Just in time to run at Laguna Seca (hopefully).

div2

Or try the 315/35-20 Michelin 4X4 Diamaris tires that were on the 4.6is I tested; you will need a 20x10.5 wheel, though...;)

ccotenj

lol... i think he's gonna have to roll his fenders...

-Chris

dave330i

No problem. I'll just jack up my suspension. Either that, or remove the quarter panels, and the wheel well.

How was the X5 anyway?

div2

The 4.6is was WAY too much fun. The acceleration, braking, and handling were nearly unbelievable for a 4800 lb. SUV. I loved it!

huntzinger

shipo writes:

I have a 328i PP, NO SP, as such; my car came with 205mm section width All-Season tires. While I would not say that these are GREAT in snow and ice, they are certainly adequate for getting from point A to point B.

I guess it depends where point A and B are within NJ, as to ascertain what is adequate :-).

my take is that given how little snow we actually get here in NJ (compared to Michigan where I grew up, or Chicago...

Forgot last year's New Year's storm? I got 26" in that single snowfall, and a couple of our surrounding towns got more.

But overall, its not how much snow falls, but rather its lubricity. NJ classically gets transitional winter storms and the rain/sleet/ice mix with the snow that makes conditions far more slippery than a good old fashioned midwest blizzard. The typical snowfall is the consistency and weight of wet concrete, but its as slippery as grape jelly (until it freezes into a rock overnight).

My rationale for that statement is this; while I will agree that Winter tires have better grip on Snow and/or Ice than All-Season tires, it is my understanding that said All-Season tires have better grip on cold-dry and cold-wet roads than said Winter tires.


Who fed you this (ahem) line?

The rule of thumb for grip (all conditions) is "softer=better". Good winter tires have special plasticisers to keep them softer at lower temperatures, which are not found in All-Seasons or Summer tires. This is also why they wear out faster.

I used to run just all-season tires, but then I wanted to start to run better summer tires. Once making that choice, it doesn't make any sense NOT to run snows on the winter rim set. I have noticed an improvement in both summer & winter performance.

And FWIW, in northern NJ, you don't want to mess with Tire Rack - just go to Eurotire on Rt 46E in Fairfield. The owner, Bill Bloomfield, supports some of the local enthusiast clubs, including, I believe, BMW.

-hh

brave1heart

Based on your rule of thumb for grip and your experience with various tires, at what "break-even" temperature would you say that snows would perform as well as all-seasons on dry roads? What would that break-even temperature (approximately) be for snows vs. summer tires (again, on dry roads)?

silverprincess

I purchased my CPO at BMW of San Francisco and had a pleasant experience. Email me if you want more details.

As others have already said, AVOID Stevens Creek and Allison (Mountain View).

topspin627

I saw an earlier post that mentions having 3 settings for the step. I have an 01 330i with 2 settings that I know of. Is this something new for 02?

daswolf

Setting One: Adaptive Program (Plain old "D" or "Drive" setting with shifting pattern that adapts to the your driving habits)

Setting Two: Sport Program (Shifter set to Left Gate "M/S". This is the reason for the "S" in the "M/S" shifter position. Holds gears longer before shifting for "sporty" driving)

Setting Three: Steptronic or Manual Mode (Starts when you shift up or down when you are already in the Sports Mode. This is the reason for the "M" in the "M/S" position. This allows you to control the shift point for the gears. It will, however, shift for you if you screw up or are not paying attention - i.e. let it rev too high or keep too high a gear at slow speeds)

uclakav

Just picked up my Silver 2002 325CI with Automatic, Sport Package, Moonroof, and CD Changer for 32,715 from Sonnen BMW. I noticed a few posts earlier asking for a good dealer in the bay area. I bought from Dan Stephan at Sonnen in San Rafael.

I wanted a 325CI with Auto two weeks ago, but they didn't have any. He checked his upcoming inventory and saw this car with the moonroof and sport in the right color (no leather also) and he told me if I wanted it, I just had to put a deposit down. Now, not having done that much research I thought the TMV was pretty much MSRP, so I was just hoping to get them to throw in floormats and maybe a couple hundred bucks off MSRP. However, when he pointed out that this car had the sport package which I didn't necessarily want, maybe he could tell his manager that I didn't want it and get some money off the price of the car. I was excited that he was willing to deal so when I went in the next day to actually discuss the price I offered him 500 over invoice just to see what would happen... His manager came back with a note that the 325CI was a "very rare car" and offered 600 off MSRP. I told him that I would pay 1000 over invoice and buy it today or I would shop around. After 30-40 minutes, the deal was done at 1200 over invoice including the cd changer at 900.
I think it's a pretty good deal on this car, since it's almost exactly the one I want. The MSRP is 33545 plus the changer at 1100. Even if the changer is overpriced, the car is still 800 under MSRP not including the changer.
Oh, the car arrived two days earlier than he told me and I am thrilled. Hope this helps.

parump

Unfortunately, our car was not an ED purchase. I would have enjoyed travelling to Germany. Perhaps, next time.

Initially, I worried that our car would never be ordered by the client advisor but was sufficiently impressed by the voice mail that greeted me upon arriving at home. The voice mail provided me with a production number - a confirmation that the sales person was honest.

Henrika at Sonnen BMW is probably a good client advisor for ED purchases. She is probably less willing to negotiate than others, but is very attentive to detail which can be important for ED.

Obviously, the goal is to purchase the car at the most competitive price. However, sometimes spending a little extra money is well worth the cost.

Franco at Cutter Motors in Santa Barbara has an excellent reputation. Jon Shafer, the sales manager, has been very successful in enticing Bay Area folks to travel to Southern California. In my opinion, he has earned this loyalty by offering very competitive prices and treating his potential customers well. He respects his customers and clearly values their interest. I suspect that he starts at a "lower" negotiating price and reduces the "back and forth" negotiation process. Evidently, a number of Bay Area owners are repeat customers with Cutter Motors.

Another option is a broker. In my experience, an effective negotiation strategy coupled with a knowledgeable buyer negates any potential savings benefits of the broker. However, brokers can reduce the "hassle" factor.

ccotenj

don't waste your keystrokes... i wasted about a billion of them trying to convince folks of certain things... i suppose appropriate rubber for the conditions is kind of like religion... either you believe in it or you don't...

-Chris

njdriver1

Wow, I was afraid this debate would kick-up again. Living in North NJ and driving an '01 330 (leased) I'm considering snows (and rims?) given my friends mixed experience with the cars in the winter. Shipo's been driving these babys for years, and I respect his posts here. But a second set of wheels seems extravagant unless there is a true safety issue.
btw, thats an excellent use of lubricity.

tenet1

Your experience shows what many dealers do to make people feel that they are getting a good deal. By pricing an option such as a CD changer at $1100, they get a huge window to play with the numbers and still come away with a hefty profit.

When I shopped around for my car, I had quotes for about $1800-2000 over invoice from almost all dealers but the price of this dealer optioned CD changer varied from $500 to $950 (most of it pure profit). I know now that the Alpine 6 CD chnager can be bought for $400 at the parts department, and say another 1 hour of labor to professionally install (@ $80/hr), so about $500 is fair to pay for this option.

In cases where there not much price transparency for dealer installed options, one must be careful when negotiating a price.

ccotenj

you just spent how much on a car and now consider a cheap set of steel wheels "extravagant"????

safety is an individual choice. i see people who ride motorcycles without helmets. i see people who drive 90 mph down the shoulder of the highway. i see people who drive without seatbelts. and so on... i wouldn't do any of the above, but i respect those people's decisions to act in the manner that they do.

if you do decide to get snows, go as small a diameter wheel as you can get over your brakes, and as skinny a tire as will fit on. good luck

-Chris

div2

Next he'll ask if he REALLY needs to use Premium fuel...

dave330i

I'm trying to understand the reason for smaller diameter wheels, and skinnier tires for winter. Doesn't bigger and wider tires give you more contact surface, which in turn give you better traction. Don't you want that in winter as well, or is it the opposite in winter?

Just trying to figure out what I'm missing here.

div2

The idea is that a narrower tire does a better job in the nasty stuff because the shape of the contact pattern is long and narrow. Wide low profile rubber simply isn't the hot setup in ice/snow/slush.

cnorthrup

I purchased a 16in winter wheel a tire package for my 330i from Tirerack. The 16" wheels are made to fit the car. It is the same width tire as the stock all seasons but a 55 instead of the 50.
According to Tirerack the contact patch would still be better for snow. I am not so sure but a like the idea of using a separate set of winter tires anyway... I have always done it with all my cars. I live in Southwestern CT.
I guess the point is that the narrower the tire the better the "bite" into the snow. The other point would be with the smaller wheel and the 55 sted 50 it would be more forgiving to potholes.

CNorthrup

novcenthusiast

I would have guessed it's to increase the pressure over your contact surface. That way its easier to melt the slush and "push" it out of the way.

dave330i

Everyone. Not sure if I'm going to make it back to the office after lunch.

jliu_ca

Great information provided...many thanks.

Still considering the ED thing, but probably need to check into what sort of deal I can swing with incoming inventory or CPO. I have an office mate who is also looking so perhaps we might be able to bargain a better deal with 2 purchases.

Will keep all posted.

Happy holidays!

brave1heart

everyone. I hope Santa is good to all of you.

genie1

I've been keeping out of the ED/snow tire debates.

Have a GREAT Holiday Season.

shipo

Well, here we go again. Your statements about All-Season tires vs. Winter tires caught me by surprise. Having spent a fair amount of time talking with various engineers and technicians back when I worked for MBUSA (about all aspects of cars, including tires), not to mention a fair amount or reading over the years I was fairly sure that my statement about All-Season tires being superior to Winter tires on Cold-Dry and Cold-Wet roads was correct. So, to clear this up once and for all, I just called Michelin and got in contact with a Customer Service representative that was very well versed in the All-Season vs. Winter tire argument.

I told him that I lived in an area with very little snow (about 21” per year on average, I looked it up), which is cleared up very quickly, leaving cold clear roads to drive on. I did inform him that I am currently running Michelin Energy MXV4 Plus tires to give him a reference point regarding the quality of All-Season tire I was referring to. I also told him that I have been told that for driving on cold roads (wet or dry) that dedicated Winter tires have better traction when compared to All-Season tires. His quote, “The guy that told you that is absolutely wrong.” He went further saying, “If anything, All-Season tires like the ones on your car will have BETTER road holding abilities down to minus 20 degrees Fahrenheit or so, at which point, dedicated winter tires would be preferable.”

By the way, here in northern Bergen County, it is fairly hilly, so much so that on my street, which is just over one mile long, there are only four houses with a flat driveway (one of them being mine). Another indication; when I ride my bike down our hill, I usually hit 50 mph before the curves at the bottom of said hill require me to drop an anchor to slow down enough. Whether you want to believe it or not, the OEM All-Season tires on my 328i deal with these hilly conditions quite well. While I won’t be ice racing on the local lake surface, like I said before, they are more than adequate.

Best Regards,
Shipo

P.S.

FWIW, the aforementioned customer service rep also told me that not all All-Season tires contain Silica in the rubber compound (my MXV4s do), and that those tires would probably be a different story.

mschukar

I can vouch for the effectiveness of winter tires. I will definitely have some for my 325i when it comes in. Why take the risk?

As for tire size, etc.: The contact patch size does not change with tire size, just the shape. The contact patch area depends on weight of the vehicle and pressure in the tires with some variance due to sidewall stiffness, etc. Weight/PSI=square inches of contact.

A narrower tire will have a longer, narrower profile that will go down through the snow better to make contact with the cement. A wider tire will ride on top of the snow more like a ski.

In this case, wider is definitely not better!

-Murray

nyccarguy

I've always known you have all seasons on your 328i from previous posts (I've been paying attention:), but I never knew you have Michelin Energy MXV4s. I have the same tires but a different size (195/60 R15) on my Saab and I can attest to their being wonderful in the lovely weather we get here in the Tri-State area during the winter, but I feel like they squeal and screech way before the handling limits of the car. I am a big fan of Blizzaks, but agree that in our region All Season Tires will be fine.

shipo

It seems that Michelin did a very nice job on these tires. There is little doubt that Brave1heart’s 325i (his has the SP with the Continentals) will out corner my 328i (at least warm roads), however, given that the SP on the 325i has wider/stickier/lower profile tires with a stiffer suspension, I guess that is not too surprising. Having said that, the suspension on my 328i does a credible at keeping the 205/55 R16 MXV4s attached to the road, rarely do I hear them complain at all, and when I do, it is always at speeds well beyond what the local constabulary would consider acceptable. ;-)

My guess is that with the 50/50 balance of the 328i, along with its suspension geometry and slightly wider tires (compared to your Saab), the “squeal and screech” that you hear has been all but eliminated by BMW for any driving short of autocross or other extreme cornering environments.

Given all of this, I am seriously considering getting the SP on my next car, and when the OEM rubber wears out, replace it with identical sized High Performance All-Season rubber, such as the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S.

Best Regards,
Shipo

nyccarguy

You've got 205/60 16s on your 328i right? I do remember having 205/60 15s on my '92 Beretta (Hey it was my first car and every one of us made mistakes when we were 16) and they didn't sqeal & screech as much as the tires on my Saab. Its interesting how 10mm really makes a difference.

Whatever my next car may be (325Ci, A4 1.8T, C230K, Z, G35, or IS300) I'm definitely going for the upgraded Sport Suspension & Rubber as well.

pyarali

postoak

Has anybody seen the new brown leather interior yet? How did it look? What exterior colors do you think it would look best with, and which colors would it work better with than the sand leather?

I took my 2nd test drive of a 325 tonight. They didn't have any sedans with a manual so I had to drive a coupe. The salesman told me that 98% of the 3-series they sell were auto trannies! Do you believe that? Anyway, this was a 5 speed with SP and the new-old steering. It is quite acceptable IMO. No Miata -- but better than any other sedan I've driven.

shipo

My salesman at my dealership back in 1998 told me that they sell over 50% of their 3-Series cars with a manual transmission. In some parts of the country, I guess that would not surprise me too much, however, here in the NYC metro area, I find that number to be WAY higher than I would expect. The good news is that my dealership orders many 3 & 5 series cars to stock with manual transmissions. ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

bing330i

I have seen the new brown leather interior. It is okay. IMO, brown is more luxery type than sporty in which 3ers fit. Red or white exterior color would look best with it. And it would work better with white than the sand leather.

So many posts on winter tires. Here in so Cal is too warm to know a thing about it. :-> Thinking about it, one more month until my Munich pickup. Hopefully it will not snow. Even few miles from ED center to the drop off center would be too far for someone who's never driven in snow!

Happy Holidays to all!

nobee

I will never understand why people invest +30k on a car but hesistate when investing in one of the most important parts of a vehicle? I just bought 4xKumho (195/60 R15) for my 5er, had it balanced, mounted, and had the vehicle aligned for less than $270.00. It's a no-brainer folks; snow tires can be bought on the cheap and well worth the piece of mind.
-nobee

shipo

The point that I have been trying to make about Winter tires is that, in some fringe areas (like here in New Jersey), it is safer (on the whole) to drive with All-Season tires than Winter tires. Why would I want to spend about $1,000 on a winter set, and then have them be a better fit with the elements for only a couple of days a year? Having said that, if I were to live in an area with more snow, I would have no hesitation mounting about Winter tires on my car.

Best Regards,
Shipo

postoak

shipo - I'm a little skeptical about what he claimed, although it seems to me this particular dealership orders mostly PPs also. Perhaps the "drop in and take what's on the lot" kind of buyer is more luxury oriented.

bing330i - exactly the kind of opinion I was looking for. I'm not real good with colors. I test drove a silver with grey leather, exactly what I had planned on buying, and for some reason I found myself looking more at the Oxford green and the Topaz blue. There's something about the combination of green with the orange tail lights that is really pleasing...

bing330i

I tend to avoid non-basic fashionable color. One may argue silver or black is too common, simply that is thanks to the fact that too many view them as good looking car colors.

My sense is if you lease or intend to change your car quite often, it does not hurt to try some fantasy color - you can get rid of it if you dislike it any more. Being an avant garde does not mean you just have to be different (Nowadays it is rarely possible to distinguish yourself by your car unless you drive a Ferrari). When you see black being the most popular color among artists and fashion designers who have shown their creative nature, you would know why.

For me, in the same fashion that I want a classic car like 3ers, I'd want a classic color going with it.

Just my 2 cents.

postoak

I suppose the classic colors on a luxury car are black, white, and silver. Red is a sports car or driving enthusiast's color. It used to be much more popular on BMW's, but has declined to the point of being uncommon now. I think this slide in popularity has matched the change in perception of what a BMW is all about.

In my area, I would rate the popularity of the colors as follows:

Tie 1/2 Black and white
3) silver
4) steel grey
all the others are uncommon to rare. I've never knowingly seen a sapphire black. Steel greys are actually more common than silvers if you only take into account the last 2 years.

shipo

I finally remembered to post about my lunch trip to Dawat last Sunday. So, we are all in a lather to get to Dawat, having been looking forward to it all week, and as we walk up, we get this sinking feeling that something does not look quite right. Sure enough, CLOSED. I have never heard of a Curry House that did not have a Sunday Buffet. As it turns out, 58th street between 2nd and 3rd has at least a half dozen Curry Houses to choose from, and, you guessed it, most of them were closed as well. Now for the good news, about a half a block down toward 2nd is a place called “Bukhara Grill” aka. “Indian Spice Rave”, and they were open. While I would not say that what I had was over the top *HOT*, I will say that the selections and flavors were fabulous. For a change of scenery sometime, you might want to give them a try. ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

postoak

I just noticed that the TMV on a 3-series (325i, at least) is equal to the MSRP. Is it really that bad for us buyers? Why? We're in a recession!

bing330i

I never pay attention to the Edmunds TMV. What people've got when you researched on the Bimmer boards are true TMVs. I believe $1500 over is still common though you surely can do better than that if you do extra work. Worthy of mention, in Jan 2, 02, the invoice price will increase by 1%. So in order to get the same deal, let's say $1500 over at present, you will actualy need to get $1200 over.

audibuyer1

I also posted this query on the Audi A4/BMW 325 comparison forum.

I have been leaning towards the A4 since I didn't realize that BMW has an all wheel drive. I'm assuming that Audi has a leg up on AWD since their Quattro has been around for awhile, but I wanted to get feedback from anyone that has a BMW with AWD. Is it going to add significant dollars to repair bills later in life? Does the AWD detract from handling performance? The fact that the 325 BMW has a lower price then the A4 3.0 (I can probably live with the smaller engine)suprised me, so I am seriously considering the 325, but since I definitely wanted AWD, I wanted to hear what users have to say about it. Thanks for any info that you have.

maril555

Hello. everybody!
Does anyone have any experience w/EBC Green brake pads on 3- Series? I'm pretty tired of cleaning my weels at least once a week- those BMW pads are terrible in this regard.
My car is '01 BMW 330i, Topaz Blue,Black lthr, SP.
Appreciate your responses in advance. Happy holidays.

christofori

I have a 330 xi. Before buying I looked at C320, Audi S4, and Volvo S60 T5. I have been very happy with my choice. I really can not comment on long-term costs of AWD. But driving wise, I have never been distracted from the AWD. You should read the Edmonds test drive on Jaguar X-Type to see how bad it can get. One of my friend, who bought a S4 last year is considering selling his and buying a 330. Ultimately, it will be your $$ and your decision. I am very happy about my choice. If you have any questions, I will be glad to answer.

cnorthrup

mschukar

My wife bought me an iPod for Christmas :-) BMW for birthday, iPod for Christmas…I think I owe here some jewelry now!

I found these auxiliary input adapters at Crutchfield.

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-VLEk99IhT7n/cgi-bin/ProdGroup.asp?c=2&g=50900&s=0

It looks like you can use your head units CD changer input to connect an 8mm or RCA jack. Has anyone used one of these? I don't see BMW or Alpine listed as supported OEM's. Any one know what type of connector the CD changer input uses?

This is going to rock! 75+ CD's worth of music on command!

-Murray

doconnow

I've had my BMW 325XI for 9 months now. My previous car was a 1995 Audi A6 Quattro. Both had 5 speeds. I have not noticed any significant difference in the BMW All Wheel Drive system. I chose the BMW because I was very disappointed in how the Audi held up. It was great for the first 3-4 years and then had numerous problems. At the time I traded the car the power steering was leaking, clutch was going, some of the dashboard lights were out, thermostat was broken, and the sun roof would occasionally pop up for no reason! It had approx 85,000 miles on it. The car had also had a terrible problem with a rotten egg smell for the first few years. No problems yet with the BMW although it took several months to get accustomed to the BMW clutch which is much more difficult to drive smoothly than the Audi. I hope this is helpful info for you.

parump

Gurumike,

Do you know what are the criteria monitored by the on board diagnostic computer that are used to calculate the service interval? Some people have speculated that it is dependent upon several parameters: the number of times that the ignition is activated, fuel consumption, and engine speed. Others have speculated that the number of "hot/cold" cycles is also a major determinant. Do you or anyone else have any information concerning this?

Thanks,

Parump