BMW 3-Series 2005 and earlier

sunnybrook

For those that have experienced this form of purchase, a few questions:

1. How many days do you get before you pick up your car in Munich and take it to one of the drop off centers? Could you conceivably do it in one/two days if you just wanted to save the 2K and not go around europe all week?

2. Right now I have been negotiating based on the MSRP not the ED MSRP and have gotten over 1K off. If I ask him to factor in the ED MSRP instead is it typical of dealerships to rescind their original 1K discount on the base MSRP?

3. If I decided to do about a 5 day trip, what are some of the MUST places to visit and where is the best place to drop off the car?

4. Finally, how does BMW save over 2 grand simply by allowing you to pick up the car in munich??

I plan to purchase soon, so any feedback would be awesome!

jrct9454

EH Harms doesn't care...drive the car directly from the delivery center to the port and get back on an airplane, if that's what you want to do.

Since we go to Europe every year [or, in this past year, three times] and have done most of th area in France, Germany, Holland, Switzerland, etc. several times, I for one would not hesitate to employ a pickup and immediate dropoff strategy if the economics of the airfare made it a good idea. Just depends on what you are making the trip for...

postoak

I haven't done an ED yet, but I think I can answer some of your questions.

1) I don't think there is a minimum time you have to stay over there. But, remember the delivery center and the drop off point aren't open on weekends. To me, if you are entirely concerned with getting a lower purchase price there are better ways than ED.

2) Yes, from the posts I've seen here it is very typical for dealers to claim they can't discount off of ED MSRP. That doesn't mean it is true.

3) I would recommend driving out to see Neuschwanstein castle, the number one tourist destination in Germany. It is a 2 hour or so drive out to it, so doing that would be a good one day project that would allow you some time with your new car on the autobahn. Drop off right back in Munich.

4) We've speculated on 4. I don't know if anyone came up with the definitive answer, but I suspect the poster was right who thought that perhaps they receive some kind of money from the Germany government. It is assumed that if you come to Germany to pick up your car you will NOT do as you are thinking about doing, and will spend a lot of money there.

Remember, you have to book the pickup 90 days in advance. If you are in a hurry to buy, ED isn't the way to go. I would also suggest that if you are just trying to get a good low price and don't feel confident of your bargaining skills that a better way to go that would be less extreme, would be to talk to one of the dealers who has a reputation for selling at good prices and fly to another state and pick up the car and drive it home. I think you'll come out way ahead financially doing that.

postoak

I wonder if anybody can help me with this. I bought some new movies on VHS from an internet vendor in the UK. When they arrived, I found they wouldn't play in my VCR. I got garbage for video and a highly speeded up audio. I took them down to a store that sells VCRs and they tried them on their units, including a Super VHS, with no luck. One of the employees speculated that they were in something called "PAL" format. Does anyone know if this is true? I would have thought VHS would be VHS all over the world. I noted when purchasing my DVD player that the manual said that DVD disks had "regional security protection". I was wondering if perhaps that is what I was running into. Thanks in advance.

hgeyer

Number 4.

The primary reason that you save $$$ is because by driving the car in Europe, you're technically importing a "used" car into the USA, which makes it exempt from US duties and taxes that apply on a new car (state sales taxes still apply when titling the car here).

You also are not paying the German value-added tax, which is why one of the rules is that you have to be out of the country within 6 months.

hgeyer

I believe that you may have PAL formatted VCR tapes, the US format is NTSC. I know that the tapes that my dad gets from Germany are PAL, and I assume that UK is also on a PAL format. These need to be converted via a dual player/recorder that will copy the PAL onto a NTSC tape.

You can check the yellow pages under "video services" or something like that for companies that will do a conversion.

tenet1

Yes, you bought PAL format VHS tapes while in Europe. The European system is PAL and the US system is NTSC, and basically useless in many parts of the world. Essentially even TV's sold in the US will only support NTSC format VHS tapes from VCR's and Camcorders. However, when you travel overseas, a you will find that many TV's support both NTSC and PAL. To solve your problem, there are many small video stores (that cater to the needs of etnic minorities that watch movies from overseas) that will convert your tapes from one format to the other for a $5-7 fee. Depending on where you live, this should not be too hard to find.

Also DVD's purchased here cannot be used in Asia and possibly in Europe.

Amazing how we cannot have a single standard. But then that would make life too easy for us common folks.

postoak

I knew I could count on somebody on this board knowing the answer. Thanks hgeyer and tenet1!

sjmurray2

New member here, I just spent the last few days shopping BMW/Audi/Jag/Benz and have ruled out Jag and Benz. Audi is very attractive, but their rep scares me somewhat! This leaves BMW, but I am overwhelmed by the different packages. 325/330/525/530? The dealer seems to be very aggressive with his 525 series, but I see this engine as possibly underpowered compared to their 330 and the Audi A6. Not sure I have a question here, just looking for insight. I am trying to stay under $40K. Scott

sunnybrook

Apparently these are included in the dealer prep fee, but is it safe to say that most bmw dealerships will include these and waive the fee in the negotiation process? I am close to making a deal and don't want this to be a major sticking point.

postoak

Are you looking at a manual or automatic? RWD or AWD?

esq1

Rhmass, I ordered a 325xiT last Christmas and was promised February build and March delivery (all the dealers around me had already sold their January and February wagon allotments by x-mas). It looks like BMW had the line geared up to make wagons last week as you're already "awaiting transport" and, while mine is still "in production" according to the website, BMW says it rolled off the line last Friday. My guess is that our cars will arrive at the tail end of March or in early April. I doubt BMW would be so cruel to let your car sit on a dock while others are loaded on the ship.

nobee

Yes, PAL is a standard format across the pond and in many asian countries, while the States uses the NTSC format. To play both formats, you can purchase a multi-system vcr that can play either/or. You'll also need a multi-system television if you want to receive European cable and/or satellite stations.
-nobee

butmywife

NOBEE: Thanks for the kind words. I went with Hahn in Yakima but I, too, highly recommend Kuni. Any thoughts on getting the cassette instead of the in dash CD and then adding the 6 CD changer later?

SUNNYBROOK: Go to Eurobuyers.com and click on the model you want. Then print the "confidential wholesale price" page. Add up the options you want plus shipping to get an invoice price then add in what you think the dealer will take as profit (this board shows the range to be between $1100 - $1500)and that's the price you want to shop around. I contacted 10 dealerships. Eight responded. Six wanted $2000-$2400 over invoice. Two accepted my offer of $1250 over invoice after intial offers of $1400-$1800 over invoice. You might also want to look at www.bariaur.com/e39/EDsavings.html for some additional info. Good luck!

HGEYER: Thanks for the insight on why ED cars are cheaper. This knowledge will help potential buyers negotiate.

mainsail2

We just passed the 3200 miles mark on our new 2001 325i and last night a fairly loud buzzzing started in the rear of the car. It sounds like an electric fuel pump noise. Has anyone else had this problem. If so, will BMW fix it under warranty or tell you, "they all do that?" Is there any danger of the fuel pump going out when this noise starts, assuming that's what it is?

drcr

Another note on tapes: if you record in SVHS it will not play on a basic VHS or just very poorly.

DVD: On the back of the DVD it has numeric codes which indicate what systems will play. Basic players will either play "all" or "1" <- I think for USA. Some players in the US $200 + will play VCD Video CDs which are basically video burned onto CD.

I had been in a similar situation with Camcorder recorded in Cyprus. Neat stuff all sure to change in the near future with the digital recording becoming more affordable

drcr

chewie5

Hey all,

I wanted to know if anyone out there had any experience with getting
their car serviced at any of the dealers in the North Bay Area. I just picked up a 325i and wanted to know where I
should take it for service, repairs, etc. I live in Santa Rosa, but I purchased my car from BMW of San Francisco.

Thanks!

petrarch

I'm considering the purchase of a 2002 325i in black. Given the two options for this same exterior color, can someone inform me what enhancement the metallic paint offers?

cnorthrup

brave1heart

Good insight on why the ED program makes sense for BMW AG. I think that they also get their payment much earlier, as you have to pay for the car in full a month before you pick it up. In addition, German companies are typically owned jointly by the shareholders, banks, and unions and it is likely that the local economy would benefit greatly from the overseas tourists that travel to Munich to pick up their cars. The key thing, however, may be brand-building - taking the factory tour, going to the BMW museum, etc. helps create a loyal customer base.

ds2k1

Try driving a stick shift after fracturing your clavicle. I'm glad I had the foresight last March to get a transmission that allows me to drive one-handed. I suppose I could still get the stick and ski a little more conservatively. Oh, life's little tradeoffs.

mschukar

The reason DVD formats are different for other countries is to prevent people from shipping newly released DVD's to Europe when the movie may still be in theaters there. It gives the movie companies more control over when a movie is released in various markets.

-Murray

denk

For what it's worth, I was unable to see any difference between the jet black and the metallic black. The salesman said when the sun hits the two in certain light you can see the difference. I figured if it was that hard to see the difference I'd save the money and ordered the non-metallic black.

Dov

This was posted a while back, but in Canada, the Xi comes standard with chrome tipped exhaust pipes. It doesn't say it anywhere in the manual or spec sheet but both my friend and I recently each picked up an '02 325Xi and while neither of us "ordered" the chrome tips and the dealer didn't mention them, both our cars arrived with the chrome tipped exhaust. They look great.

dl7265

You can also buy an "all region" dvd player on ebay and watch them all....

pfaust

I live in Tennessee. Does anyone know any dealers that will sell at $1200-1500 over ED invoice?

Has anyone ever used the Eurobuyers site?

Thanks.

derprofi

but people there would have you pay extra as if you were getting something special. I bought 2 region-free DVD players as holiday gifts at Sam's Club for $99 apiece. You just have to do your research and find out which ones are easily modified with new firmware or have "hidden menus" to enable features that aren't turned on by default. Of course, I haven't even got any non-US DVDs to try out these whizbang region-free features but if I ever do, watch out! :-)

abcnyc

The HK system that comes with the 330i is supposed to have 12 speakers. I can see 10 speakers (6 in the front and 4 in the rear). Where are the other 2 speakers ? Are they the subwoofers and are they hidden or have no grill ?

bmw323is

Thought I would share something about my E46 with SP that I think is interesting. I've read in several national magaizines that BMW is famous for an overly optimistic speedometer - that is to say that it records a higher speed than is real (I've read as much as 10 mph at 80). No one seems to know why. I've also read that the odometer is unaffected by this trait. I don't really believe that now.

I have a fairly long commute to work and I have two vehilces. So I dedcided to measure the exact distance recorded by both vehicles on the same-way commute. This is exactly from my garage to the same parking space at work. I also had a friend pick me up and take me to work the other day and checked her VW Passat. The Bimmer recorded exactly 1 extra mile for the trip compared to the other two vehicles. On a 28 mile commute that was about 3.6% more mileage. It may not sound like much, but when the warranty expires at 50,000 miles, I'll have 48,200 miles on the car. All three vehicles have OEM standard sized tires. Maybe a 3% or 4% tollerance is acceptable, but it would seem that there could be better accuracy than that.

No big deal, just fwiw.

bmw323is

abcnyc - I think one of the speakers grills contain 2 speakers on each side. That is how they get 12 speakers. Can't remember if it is the far back speaker/subwoofer or one in the front doors.

parsonguy

Chris and Brave: I find BOTH of your perspectives smart and helpful. I come here for information. And you both have given me something useful. Chris, you are sending out an important signal about the risks of using summer-temperature compound rubber as an everyday driver in the winter, no? SP tires were simply not engineered to operate efficiently in sub-freezing temps and may be downright hazardous. I would not have known this without your posts. However, Brave, I also find your info very useful. We're looking at a 325i as a 3rd vehicle and, even though we live in Minnesota, my impression is that, as long as we're not caught in a snowstorm and we understand the rather serious limits of performance tires, we can get by with SP rubber and thereby enjoy the amazing abilities of the car in all its SP glory. You guys are both too smart and too helpful to be flamin' each other. Thanks to both of you for your info.

shipo

I think I know at least part of the reason for the mileage difference on your car.

Please feel free to correct me if some of my assumptions are wrong, because I am basing my calculations on a 2000 323i. Said 323i was available with three different tire sizes (I think), which were 195/65HR15 (standard A/S tires), 205/55HR16 (optional A/S tires) and 225/50HR16 (SP tires). According to TireRack.com, the two All-Season tire sizes turned about 830 revolutions per mile when new, however, the SP tires turn 837 revolutions when new. Let's say for the sake of argument that BMW calibrated the Speedo/Odo gearing for the A/S tires, instant error for the SP equipped cars of something like .24 of a mile error on your 28 mile course (showing 28.24 instead of an even 28.00). Given that the standard issue tires on the 323i SP have a tread depth of 10/32", let's assume (once again for the sake of argument) that your tires are now nearing replacement; hence, their radius is now .25" smaller than when new. At this point, your tires would require 853 revolutions for a mile, however, your Speedo/Odo is still calibrated for 830. Now, with the "Smaller" tires, your 28 mile course will show a .75 mile error, essentially showing 28.75 miles instead of 28.

Keep in mind, this is just a working theory, it is 1:00 AM and I am tired, so I may have totally screwed this all up, however, I think this is the cause of your cars' error.

Best Regards,
Shipo

jonas12678

Hello all -

I am about to start shopping for a new 325xi and was wondering if anyone on the board could recommend a good Chicago area dealer. Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Scott

denright

I don't have any input on the Chicago area dealership issue, but I'd like to toss in my two cents regarding your choice of car.

I originally intended to buy a 325xi when I started car shopping about a year ago. However, when I test drove one, I found that, unlike the 325i, the 325xi felt rather sluggish and slow. Bear in mind that the 325xi weighs a few hundred pounds more than the 325i.

As far as I am concerned, one of the main reasons I wanted a 3 Series was for good handling and performance, and while the 325xi obviously handled well, it simply felt too slow for a $35K car.

Dissatisfied with the 325xi, I test drove a 330xi to see the difference in "oomph". The difference was dramatic. I was hooked instantly, and I immediately decided to fork over the extra few grand for the extra power.

In sum, I recommend that you test drive a 325xi and a 330xi and use that experience to judge which you really want. Go into this decision with your eyes wide open. I sure am glad I did.

NB: This is not a slam on the 325xi, which is a great car in every respect. I just value the extra power and I thought I'd pass my thoughts along. So please don't flame me.

topspin627

This may be a "stupid" question but I'll go under the assumption that the only really stupid questions are the one's that aren't asked. I've often read about "heel-toe shifting" and could never figure out what it means. It seems to be very important to the car mags. Could someone please enlighten me?

twoof1

"Heel-Toe" shifting invloves using the top part of your right foot to work both the brake and throttle in concert with each other. The goal is to be able to blip the throttle while downshifting and braking to keep the engine in the sweet spot and match the RPM's to the desired result ie engine braking or just smooth cornering power
Here's an example:
You are rolling through some twisties and come to a 2nd gear corner while you are approaching in 4th. You would begin appyling the brakes and put the clutch in to drop from 4th to 3rd. With the left side of your right foot on the right side of the brake you roll your foot over so it is also able to touch left side of the throttle. With the clutch in you blip the throttle up to match the desired RPM let's say 3,500 RPM. You then let out the clutch after changing gears and the motor will engine brake and help you continue to slow down for the corner along with the brakes. You would repeat the procedure for dropping from 3rd to 2nd. This time you would probably (unless you are very late braking!!) just try to rev match your entry RPM to achieve smooth power delivery while cornering so as not to disrupt the blance of the car.
Keep in mind this all happens very quickly (Like the speed of a normal shift)
It sounds like a lot to do and think about in a very short amount of time however after some practice it will become second nature (not to mention a lot of fun!!)
It's one of the things I dearly miss by having my step.
HMMM... maybe I shouldn't have turned in my Z3
Enjoy it, it's one of the great pleasures of driving a stick

mb595

Took my new 325 on it first extended ride. 700mi roundtrip to DC. Car performed terrifically but both our backs were killing us after about an hour and a half. I had wondered whether the lack of a lumbar support would be a problem but the BMW seats were far more comfortable in short test drives than all competitiors. Lumbar support is only offered with 330 Premium package and I didn't feel like spending 4k for the insurance.

Has anybody else experience a lower back pain with the 325? Any easy solutions? Because of the seat shape normal back cussions will not fit so we ended up getting a small piece of foam rubber which seems to work but is ugly and moves around everytimes you shift your weight.

brave1heart

You are a gentleman, thank you! You summed it all up correctly in one paragraph.

This board is very civil and although it is common for many of us here to disagree with each other, we are mature people and agree to disagree. You state your facts and experience, I state mine, and we move on if we disagree - it's that simple. Oh, a good joke would be a bonus. Case in point: the last discussion that I had with twoof1 on Quattro vs. xi a couple of weeks ago.

We are all free to express our opinions and let everyone decide what's best for themselves. As my past history shows, I would sometimes argue my point passionately but would not turn it into a personal attack UNLESS someone attacks me personally and/or consistently tries to discredit me. I've always thrived on diversity and do not try to put down posters whose preferences are different from mine. Think what a boring world it would be if we all drove the exact same car with the exact same options, same color, and even same tires )

nyccarguy

nyccarguy

Dude...you need to get out more. LOL!

Have you ever been to Don Pepe's in Newark (Yes Newark)? It is a wonderful Spanish style seafood reastaurant. I ate there Saturday night and the food was excellent.

BTW, just to stay on topic, There was a 325Ci in a burgundy color with SP and a black interior. It was really sharp looking. Is this Burgundy color still offered?

nyccarguy

Just to finalize this, if you put down multiple security deposits, they are fully refundable at the end of the lease correct?

shingetta1

Jonas,

I got my BMW from Laurel BMW (www.laurelbmw.com). They're not too far away, and they treated me very well (I'm a young buyer, and I wasn't blown off). Do you plan to order your own or get one pre-made?

The only other one I can think of is Perillo BMW, located downtown, I think, but I don't really know much about them (they were a lot less cordial).

hgeyer

I would not recommend Perillo or Fields if price is a concern (when isn't it?). I've read either here or on www.bimmer.org that there is a dealer two hours out near the quad-cities that will do $1000 - $1500 over invoice.

You may want to do a search.

millerro3

Yes, that's right

Rob

kominsky

I believe there are at least a few people in this forum who have bought their cars through Eurobuyers and are very happy. I, personally, dealt with Steve and was NOT overly pleased. He had a 328i on his webpage (under specials). I contacted him about it and he told me in an email that the car had ~100 miles on it. When I responded that I was turned off by that kind of milage on a new car (I know how I drive new cars on test-drives ;-)). He responded by saying that he didn't think he would be interested in helping me due to my aversion of cars with "any" miles on them.

Again, I think many people have had good experiences using his service so, if I were you, I'd at least see what kind of deals he has to offer. Good luck!

gwunj

I'm considering ED for myself and went through several hundreds of back-posts to check some of the info. Man, you peeps sure have a lot to say! Anyway, one of my co-workers asked me a question about which countries the BMW insurance applies to. I know I saw someone post that info, but am not interested in searching through a 500 posts to find it. Maybe one of you bookmarked it and could share the post number? Thanks much!

derprofi

Here's a scan of my ED insurance form. In the top left you'll see abbreviations for a bunch of European countries. You're covered in countries that don't have an X through them.

twoof1

Just to clarify, I never entered any discussion of Quatro VS XI with anyone on this board. Now our discussion of the Pat's VS the Ram's was another story!!

carwatch

I'd really appreciate it if anyone can share some of their good and bad experiences with the following dealers:

Difeo BMW in Tenafly, NJ
Prestige BMW in Ramsey, NJ
Wide World of Cars in Spring Valley, NY
Westchester BMW in NY
BMW of Manhattan in NY

Thanks in advance.

brave1heart

My mistake - I had that Q vs. X discussion with allano. My memory is failing me in my old age. How's your memory - is the thought of the Pats being world champions sinking in or you're still trying to forget about it )