BMW 3-Series 2005 and earlier

hgeyer

Keep in mind also that if you're leasing through BMW Financial, you are prohibited from taking the car to former eastern bloc countries.

shipo

Well gang, in late April 2002, after 3.25 years with my 328i, I will be leaving the ranks of the 3-Series drivers. I just place an order for an ED 530i 5-Speed (Black Sapphire, Black Leather, PP, SP, Xenon and Premium Sound), and am going to take my wife on a little jaunt through Germany and France sometime this spring (I have not yet heard when my delivery will be scheduled for).

The entire transaction took about an hour.

“Hello, Park Avenue BMW.”

“Yes, I am looking for a new car, will you folks take a $1,500 over ED invoice deal on a 2002 530i?”

“Hmmm, we don’t normally do that type of a deal, I will have to discuss it. Can I call you back in about 5 minutes?”

“Certainly, here is my number.”

Eight minutes later:

“Mr. Shipo, will you do the deal right now?”

“Yes, I can be there within the hour.”

“Great, give me the equipment that you want, and I will start the paperwork…”

When we finished signing the deal, he said, “I want to thank you for being so up-front about how you wanted to do this deal and for being so prepared.”

“Your welcome, may I give out your name to other folks I know who may want to do a similar deal?”

“Certainly.”

So, here is the info:

Mike Weber
Park Avenue BMW
210 Route 17 North
Maywood, NJ 07607
201-843-7900

Best Regards,
Shipo

twoof1

I'm still in denial.
Remember it's not just a river in Egypt!!

Shipo,
The 5 series boards gain will be our great loss. Your insight here has been appreciated.

nyccarguy

Congrats on the 530! Hey, you may be leaving the ranks of 3 series drivers, but you're still a BMW owner and you'll still be driving a 5 speed.

What made you not go back to Prestige?

I thought you lease through your business. Will you be leasing or purchasing your 530?

tenet1

Nice!! You are a lucky man to trade upto the 530.

Glad you found a nice dealer too.

mb595

I just shopped for a car in the NYC area. John Raab of Manhattan is there internet salesman he was very helpful and offered fair prices, low pressure. Mike Speranza at WW in Spring Valley offered good price and allowed car out for extended test drive, he was more high pressure and I did end up buying there. I test drove a CPO at WW and coolant leaked all over the engine resulting in a smoky - smelly mess. Made me a little leery of the check out process. Even Jiffy Lube checks the caps.

The decision to buy was based on what was in stock. If I had been ordering I would have gone with Manhattan or smaller Jersey Dealer. King BMW in Freehold and Bob Westervelt of Holman in Bloomfield were very nice. And if I had it to do again I would order as you can get exactly what you want and shop based on price and delivery time alone.

Prestige and Difeo did not return my inquires promptly.

shipo

Twoof1,

Even though I am switching my ride, I have no intention of leaving the 3-Series board, there seems to be a sense of community here that I have not experienced on any other board with the exception of the "TheClassicCessna170Club" over on Yahoo Clubs, which I enjoy equally as well as conversing with you folks here.

NycCarGuy,

I asked the salesman over at Prestige for a quote on the 530i last Friday, and he quoted me list. I questioned him about the price, and he seemed fairly confident that there was no room for negotiation. So, I didn’t negotiate.

Please understand, I have complete respect for the folks over at Prestige, they have been nothing but pleasant and professional with me throughout the time I have had my 328i. I actually feel a little guilty for not making them the $1,500 offer, however, I did give them a chance.

As for the lease, yes I am leasing again, and yes the business is paying for said lease, or at least 90% of it (the IRS takes a dim view of businesses deducting 100% of the lease value of a car).

Best Regards,
Shipo

shipo

Thanks! ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

drcr

Just a thought: How far in advance would you be able to order a car before it is produced? Say a M7 only to dream but more realistically an X3 for the Mrs? I think it is scheduled for 03?

carwatch

I've started my phone and e-mail correspondence with these dealers. Luckily, I got replies from all of them by e-mail. Talked on the phone with 3 of them and even arranged for test drives. Difeo, Prestige, and Manhattan were very upfront on how much they can go below MSRP or over invoice, financing APR if buying, residuals and money factors for leases. Westchester responded very quickly by e-mail and very quick to set up appointments. Wide World, a little bit slower to respond but nevertheless came through.

I searched in roadfly archive files for comments on these dealers but most of the sales personnel they referred to were not connected with the dealerships anymore except at Difeo and Prestige.

Shipo: thanks for sharing your experience at Prestige. I'll make it a point to include them in my list, as well as Park Ave.

nyccarguy

Don't feel guilty. They blew a chance with a loyal customer who could've become a repeat buyer not only to the BMW brand, but to their dealership as well. I've read wonderful things about Park Avenue Acura, I can only assume their BMW dealer is good also.

jim52

Congratulations. As you may remember the lease on my 328i is also up in late April and I am "this" close to closing the deal on a 2002 530 also. I am holding out for 1500 over invoice (not ED) and so far am at 2100 over. One question, you didn't list the cold weather package above. I do not plan to get it either but when I mention it to dealers they make me feel like I am the only person in the northeast who doesn't get it. I figure I have to cut cost somewhere and only really use it 3 months out of the year.

genie1

Congratulations on your new ride. Very sharp!

I'm glad to know you won't be leaving us.

nyccarguy

Shipo...The Black Saphire is gorgeous!

I can't wait for you to get the car and post some pics. Maybe I'll head down to Park Avenue and tell them I'm looking for a CPO Green/Beige 328i with a 5 speed and take your car for a spin:) LOL!

brave1heart

Congrats on a great deal and a great car. I am glad to hear that you are not going too far - the 5-series board is right around the corner. How much did the monthly payment on your 530 lease come up to? What are you doing with the unused miles on your 328 - any long trips planned? I am already thinking hard how to get you interested in a back-to-back comparo so I could put my hands on that 530 for a day ;o) BTW, if you are going to Alsace, keep in mind that my mother-in-law lives in Mulhouse and she would be glad to show you some of the back roads with her Peugeot 306.

p.s. I'm glad to see that you were convinced about the sport package.

topspin627

Thanks for the in-depth explanation of heal/toe shifting. It does sound a bit complicated but I understand the concept now.
Shipo, could you explain why you decided to go with a 5 series over the 3. Is the 02 the new body style or the current body? I tested the 528i a few years ago and thought it was the best all around car I've ever driven up to then. Last year I decided to go with a 330i just because I wanted something smaller and sportier. I had leased many cars in the 5 class (Lexus GS, MB 300E, Infinity Q45-the first one.) I think the 3 is a bit more edgy while the 5 is a bit on the luxury side of the sport sedan. I'm curious if I'll make the same move after my current lease is up in 2yrs.

jjshabadoo

Like you, I leased a 328i around the same time in 1999. I posted way back when I first got my car about a problem with condensation in the headlight assembly and you were very helpful with my question.

My (or should I say BMW FS's) 328i is coming off lease shortly and thus I have been shopping around for a replacement. Unfortunately, I am not in the 5-series range yet so I decided to go with a 330i. Like you, I first went back to my dealer and made what I thought was a reasonable offer ($1,350 over invoice) especially as a repeat customer who has referred others. But the salesperson said he couldn't even bring it to the manager. He eventually did but the manager wouldn't do the deal. Fine, so I left and went to Park Ave and made the same offer. The salesman there was incredibly upfront. He did not try the old "throw out a ridiculously high number and work down from there" approach. He said he would do it for $1,450 over right off the bat. We settled on $1,400 over five minutes later. This was the most painless car buying experience I have ever had. I would highly recommend Park Ave to anyone who has done his/her homework and is ready to buy.

It's fun that your salesperson said, "I want to thank you for being so up-front about how you wanted to do this deal and for being so prepared," because mine said the same thing after we closed the deal. I was just really glad Park Ave. didn't want to play the normal game of car buying.

I'm very happy to see you had such a great experience as well Shipo. Please keep us posted

Manny
Park Avenue BMW
210 Route 17 North
Maywood, NJ 07607
201-843-7900

shipo

NycCarGuy,

So, does ordering a new 530i constitute “Getting out more?” ;-)

I too have heard good things about Park Avenue, and during my brief visit there this afternoon, I was pleased with their professionalism and attitude. I look forward to a good relationship with them over the life of my 530i.

As for my 1999 328i, I have no idea where it will end up, I leased it through BancOne, and have not yet arranged its turn-in.

Jim52,

You and I are on the same cycle, summer/fall 1998 we conversed here about the 3-Series, then in mid to late winter 1999 we both leased a 328i, now in the spring of 2002, we are both upping the ante for a 530i. I guess its true what they say (whoever the hell “they” are), “Great minds think along similar patterns!” ;-)

CWP: No, I did not get it on my 328i, and I am not ordering it on my 530i. I had “Heat Seaters” (as I call them) on my 1995 Passat GLX, and during the 48 months that I had that car, I think I actually used them (as opposed to playing with them to see if they actually worked) two or three times. I cannot understand what all the fuss is about spending $600 to keep my butt warm and my headlights clean, once again, I guess we are of the same mind on this one.

Genie1,

Thanks!

Brave1heart,

Thanks, I continue contributing here as well as on the 5-Series board, and wherever I can interject some levity or ask some intelligent (hopefully) questions. As for the unused mileage on the 328i (just over 11,000), I will most likely have at least two trips to New Hampshire prior to turn-in plus my normal driving. I suspect that I will be able to chew up at least 3,000 to 4,000 miles by 1-May.

The deal on the 530i works as follows (I use leading zeros to keep the numbers lined up):

$47,395 MSRP
==================
$40,480 ED Invoice Price
$01,500 Dealer Profit
$00,200 MACO
==================
$42,380 Negotiated Price

The lease deal is as follows:
$0,558.29 Monthly payment (36 months @ 12,000 per year)

$0,558.29 1st Payment
$0,525.00 CAP Reduction (I don’t believe in these, but this is small and required)
$0,299.00 First Year Fees (I have no idea what this is, Loan Origination maybe?)
$0,600.00 Security Deposit
$0,558.29 2nd Payment (required for ED)
================================
$2,540.58 Total due 30 days before delivery in Munich (less deposit)

Before I even ordered this car, I was guessing that we were going to be meeting in New Paltz again for a quick switcheroo (sp?). I think, however, that we should wait until the car is broken in so that you can really stand on it. ;-)

Hmmmm, depending on our schedule, a trip through Alsace sounds like a good idea (haven’t been there since my bike trip in 1982). Does Mom have the SP on her 306? ;-)

Yup, sold on the SP, and will put Michelin Pilot Sport A/S tires on it when the OEM rubber is toast.

TopSpin627,

I decided to move up to the 5er for several reasons (not listed in any special order):
- If my plans work out, I will most likely be carrying adult rear seat passengers for the first time in a very long time, over the next few years.
- My children have grown enough so that in the 3er, their feet (which dangle at the narrowest point between the front of the back seat and the back of the front seat) are now forced to angle sideways while they sit. In the 5er, because of the extra head room, I can have the drivers seatback more vertical, allowing more foot room for them, even though the 3er has 0.1” more total leg room when compared to the 5er.
- I really like the looks of the 5-Series (E39) and am still cool about the looks of the next generation 5, even though the latest pictures are much better that the first ones I saw.
- Oddly enough, I am sort of getting my cake (the luxury part) and eating it too (the sporting part) when you compare my future 530i PP, SP with my current 328i PP, sans SP. My guess is that the 530i, with its extra power and SP suspension and tires will be both a faster car and one that will handle better as well, while at the same time, be more luxurious. Kind of a win/win deal. ;-)

JJShabadoo,

Oddly enough, I vaguely remember the post about the condensation inside the headlight covers. Congratulations on the new 330i, I think the folks at Park Ave. seem to have a very good attitude regarding how they sell their cars.

Best Regards,
Shipo

jon_shafer

The great news is that online registration is now availble for the 3rd Annual West Coast event! The date for the event is set for April 20, 2002 so mark your calendars now! We are hoping everyone who is within a reasonable distance to Santa Barbara, CA will come out to the event and make it the best event yet! More details about the event will be posted as they become available. Look for more exciting information to come your way soon!

Sign up for the Ultimate BMW Gathering at the following URL:

http://www.bimmerfest.com/onlinereg/onlinereg.php

2000bmw328i

I bought a 2000 BMW 328I with only 19,500 miles on it a couple of weeks ago. Initially the car drove perfectly, but this weekend I noticed that it was difficult to shift into gear (it’s a manual). It didn’t grind, but it took a lot of effort to get into gear. I took it to BMW of Murray here in Salt Lake City, Utah and they said that the
transmission is blown. I was completely shocked. They said that when they drained the transmission oil there were metal shavings and a burnt smell to the oil. The service advisor said the reason for it was the previous owner had abused the car. He also said that the 328I is a luxury car and isn’t meant to be driven hard like the M3. I know the guy that owned the car before me babied the thing. He didn’t abuse it and never red lined the car.
My feeling is that there must be some sort of a defect in the transmission. Has anyone had this problem? I would so appreciate some advice. I called up four transmission shops in
town and they all said that it is highly unlikely that the guy that owned it before me could blow the transmission especially with
the mileage on it. The tires and the brakes are in great condition as well, so why would the transmission show signs of abuse and not other parts on the car? The car looks like new. Help!

shipo

"He also said that the 328I is a luxury car and isn’t meant to be driven hard like the M3." Umm, BS. True, a 328i is not an M3, that said, this car is designed from the ground up to be driven hard.

If you need further evidence of whether your car was driven poorly, check the clutch, I suspect that if the previous owner really beat on it, the clutch would show some signs of said beating. Assuming that the clutch disk, pressure plate, throwout bearing (do they still call it that?) and flywheel surface look ok (and I suspect they will), I would dispute the claim of being driven hard.

My guess, either a manufacturing defect (which is rare, but does happen) or the wrong weight of gear lub in the gearbox. Either way, this looks like a warranty issue to me.

Stick to your guns.

Best Regards,
Shipo

jim52

Now I'm starting to get my hopes up about 1500 over invoice. I may have to make a trip to NY. Did your dealer charge you the base money factor on your lease (currently .00205) or was there some mark-up there? Another .0002 is the equivalent of $500 additional cap cost. Shipo, why was the cap cost reduction required? Is it another ED requirement?

shipo

I don't know, I did not actually notice it until I got home, he did say, however, that the list of items that he have me were (less the second month payment) "What they normally charge on a lease initiation." Given that it is only $525, I am not too worried about it, especially considering that I usually pay the Sales Tax up front (839.64 in this case). Looked at it that way, this means that I am going to be less out of pocket than I otherwise would have been.

Best Regards,
Shipo

dl7265

Congrads on the order sounds sweet, i take it you wont be bringing that Black on Black to TX ? i can hear the egg sizzling on the hood now .

DL

gwunj

First off, thanks for the ED insurance reposts. I've done my duty and passed the info along.

Shipo and jjshabadoo, Congrats on the deals! I freely admit that I'm not beyond riding along on someone else's legwork and may give them a call if the dealer in my town doesn't match. The 1.5 hour ride up to North Jersey is much better than the 3 hour trip down to Passport in MD.

A question for Shipo about the cost breakdown... I thought I read something a couple hundred posts back about not having to pay the MACO fee for a ED? Not that I would quibble much about $200 to finally getting my first bimmer. My other question is that your options were at invoice as well, right?

Glenn

jjshabadoo

For clarification, I wanted to add that my deal for the 330i was $1,400 over invoice including the $200 MACO charge. Or to state it another way, it was $1,200 over invoice + $200 MACO. I was a bit worried at first when he quote me the price and then mentioned a MACO fee but thankfully he had already included it in the final sale price. Hope this helps.

bmw323is

Congrats on the new 530 - sharp car! And thanks for the thoughts on my odometer issue. You were right on with regard to the wheel/tire options on the 323i. Hmmm...if I put some 10" wheels and low profile tires on this car, I could get 0-60 in about 4 seconds - who needs a Ferrari!

dcwong1

Does anybody have any recommendations for all-season high performance tires? I can't afford to buy an extra set of rims for winter tires and I need something that will be OK for all round use in the Midwest. I know that there will be tradeoffs in going this route versus getting a pure high performance tire for better handling, braking, etc. I'm looking for a 225/50/16 on a '99 without the SP.

shipo

dl7265,

Nah, my inlaws are in Dallas, and when I fly down there, I rent a nice white econo-box, besides, I understand that when you fry an egg on a car, it damages the paint. ;-)

gwunj,

I heard the same thing about the MACO, I was a little surprised when he brought it up yesterday, I may check into it, however, the deal I have is within $3.00 of what I was expecting, (calculated without MACO), so I guess I can't complain too much.

JJShabadoo,

Wow! Nice deal.

BMW323is,

Thanks, and your welcome. Hmmmm, 10" wheels and low profile tires... I wonder if you could even get it to 60. ;-)

Hmmmm, let's see, 10" wheels, 2" sidewall, 14" total diameter, yields a circumfrence of about 44" which is about 56% of the OEM rubber, giving an indicated 128 (imposed top speed by BMW via OBC) when you are actually only moving 72 MPH. Yes, you might just be able to get to your 4 second number. ;-)

NycCarGuy,

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know, "I need to get out more". ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

riez

2000bmw328i... Did you buy your used car CPO thru BMW or from a private party? Is the dealer trying to say the issue is not covered under warranty? That the failure is due to abuse or misuse?

The issue of what wear & tear a used car has experienced and whether a repair will be covered under warranty is one reason I would only buy a CPO BMW. At least that way you could say they had supposedly thoroughly inspected the car before making it CPO.

postoak

Along with the others, I congratulate you on your new purchase. Please report back here what the dealer says about MACO on an ED purchase. I don't recall ever hearing this stated before. I thought whether you paid MACO, or not, depended on which dealership you went to -- that is, small town dealerships often weren't assessed a MACO fee.

gwunj - if you can find that post you referred to, please point us at it. Thanks.

asinger1

Just got a 2002 325 with sports package. Only reason for SP was that I felt that the seats with it were far superior to the regular seats. I was not really interested in the high performance tires (and their quick wear out). Having said that, could I get some comments about the problems or lack of problems associated with NOT getting high performance tires when the originals need replacement. Also, if it is OK to replace with non-high performance tires, what type/brand would you recommend. Thanks,

sunnybrook

Has anyone heard about any changes which will occur for the 3 series that come out this fall? I was hoping to see the 325i available with the M aerodynamic package and/or increased horsepower through the valvetronic technology.

cdeegan1

Want to trade ? I have a 2001 325i non-SP with PP. Am now wishing I got the SP, especially since I've picked up a set of winter wheels/tires. I have a set of (5) 16" type 45's with Michelin MXV4+, wheels in perfect shape, about 6K miles on the tires.

nyccarguy

Just curious...What are the advantages to you paying the taxes up fron instead of rolling them into the lease?

emk242424

Dealer mistakenly put in 15W-50 instead of the recommended 5W-40 or 5W-30 in my 2001 325. will this cause engine harm? Should I redo oil change? Dealer says its okay.

carwatch

How's the service at Park Ave?
Do they also have BMW as loaners? I heard they use Ford Contours as loaners? Is that true?

nyccarguy

and If you need someone to put some miles on your car and take it off your hands before you turn it in...look no further...LOL

jjshabadoo

I do not know about Park Ave.'s service department but I have seen their Ford Contours with large white letters in the windshield screaming something to the effect of "Park Ave. BMW Loaner Car". Not a pretty sight.

dave330i

Congrats on the new ride. I didn't notice the $1,000 discount for BMW CCA member. Did you remember to get that discount from the dealer?

brave1heart

Is that discount valid for the ED program as well?

dave330i

Good question. I don't know the answer to that. One of the reasons why I asked shipo.

mb595

Whether it is OK depends on where you are. A low first number is important in cold weather areas. If you are in an area that rarely gets below freezing it should not be a problem. If you are in the Northlands you might have cause for concern.

hgeyer

Is available on ED. Remember that you need to be in BMWCCA for 1 year to qualify.

http://www.bmwcca.org/PDFs/Form-MembershipReward.pdf

could someone email me to remind me how to post a link properly?

derprofi

Looks like your link works fine.

deutch194

Can anybody clue me in on how to calculate a monthly lease payment??? I have the residual percentage, money factor and lease terms. I don't know if I am just clueless (probably), but I can't seem to figure it out. Any help is greatly appreciated.

nyccarguy

There's a way to do it explained on Edmunds here somewhere. I have an excel spreadsheet that I can email you if you tell me your address.

errickson

Greetings all!
Wanted to see if anyone has explored getting "XM Radio" added to their newer-model 3-series. I have started looking into it, but am not crazy about replacing my fairly new stock stereo, and I am also not crazy about having any gadgets velcro'd to the carpet, etc.

Please let me know your thoughts / install ideas, etc. Thinking about sticking the XM receiver under the seat, and putting the small display box in the storage compartment above the ashtray....

deutch194

That is what I am trying to do. Thanks for your help. My email address is bguelich194@hotmail.com.

nobee

I thought I was the only one with the Goodyears.

Shipo, congrats on the new 5'er. I drive a '93 530 and I love it.
-nobee