FWIW, I am 6'1 and have ample clearance between my head and the roof in my 325i SP with sunroof. Granted, my seat is pushed all the way down but I sit almost vertically and there is still >1 inch of clearance. I can see the instrument panel perfectly well - the steering wheel is pushed all the way up and it fits right over the instrument panel arch.
I too am wondering where the 12 inches extra length go in the 5-er. If the interior dimensions are so similar and the trunk is just marginally bigger, most of them must be going to the hood to accommodate the larger engine bay requirements?!?
why would the engine bay be "required" to be larger? it's the same engine that is in the 3er, no? or am i missing something here? i'm genuinely curious.
Well, there is the 4.4l V8 for the 5er, but that shouldn't take that much more room than an I6. Maybe one of the sales people on this board can answer that question.
My thinking is that the 5-er's engine bay should be large enough to accommodate a larger 8-cyl engine. The 3-series was never designed for an 8-cyl. I know they were able to fit an 8-cyl in the M GTR (did I get that right?) so I may be wrong about it. I am genuinely interested to find out too - please understand that I am not at all claiming to know better.
You really have to compare 5 Series to 5 Series and 3 Series to 3 Series over time. The current E46 platform is newer than the current E39 platform. For about the past 30 years BMW has made each succeeding platform a bit larger than the one it succeeds. Small overall size gains and wheelbase, plus weight gains. Compare the current E46 to its predecessor platform. Same for current E39 to its predecessor. Same goes for 7 Series.
Look to see the next generation 5 Series bigger than the current generation. Longer overall and longer wheelbase.
Let's say I do ED in the fall and I've only got a week in Europe...What countries are must sees the first time around? My girlfriend's first choice is obviously Paris. I'd like to do Germany.
It really depends on what you both like, etc.
I'd be tempted to consider the following (NOTE: I haven't tried this itinerary, or even checked its feasibility...or the correct spelling of a lot of the names I'm going to slaughter):
Munich to Fussen (tour Mad Ludwig's castles), hop into Austria and down into Switzerland, through the Alpenzee region (maybe a stop here in Liechtenstein), down to Interlacken area, where xxxx has the waterfalls which is the legendary site of the deaths of Shirlock Holmes and Prof Moriarty). Drive up to to Lauterbrunnen (a valley village with Trummelback falls, plus a ~300ft? waterfall), and stay at the Park Hotel [3 stars] in Grindelwald, with amazing views of the north face of the Eiger across the valley. Take a day off to walk up in the mountains (take the "FIRST" (actually its name) gondola that's a block uphill from the hotel). Leave Grindelwald, retracing out to Interlacken, then work SW, considering a stop in Lenk (two famous waterfalls here; the one is "Seamenfalle? [sic!]") on your way out to Montreau (a waterfront castle there). Drive along the coast of Lake Geneva to Geneva, where I think there's a BMW drop-off point as well as a good airport to fly home through, as well as good rail connections.
The availability of a V8 wouldn't necessitate a longer engine bay-- just a slightly wider one. The V8 is only as long as an inline 4-- so its smaller than an inline 6. I suppose the 5's engine bay may be longer to improve crashworthiness. I think the extra inches on the 5 are frittered away in several ways-- longer engine bay, deeper dashboard and rear shelf, thicker seat backs, etc. The overall length difference between the 2 cars is about 12"-- so you could easily loose that space in the ways I just mentioned. I think overall this means that the 3 is better packaged- but the 5 is more comfortable and feels roommier (even though its really not). And yes, its true that the 5 is an older design- so the 3 probably benefited more from the latest computer aided design to assist the designers in packaging the interior.
If memory serves, he (and Professor Moriarty) had their fatal encounter at Reichenbach Falls. I assume this is an actual place-name since Conan Doyle was familiar with Swizterland (not commonly known, but he is credited, by some, with introducing the Scandinavian ski to Switzerland).
try www.fodors.com forum. There are whole lot of people who are eager to share their knowledge, much like here. I have had good recommendations from people there.
Along with watching speeds to 1200 miles is the part that says that you have to come in to the Dealer and dump the oil and differential fluids and replace with new, at 1200 miles.. I looked at the oil in my M coupe at that mileage and it was pretty dark so I felt good about dumping it out at that time.. DanF
I know this subject has been debated before, but I would like to visit it again.... I am having difficult time determining if I should get the 330xi or 330i. I live in suburbs of Philadelphia and commute into city daily (round trip is about 65 miles). "Nasty" winter weather conditions only occur about a total of 10-15 days each year around here. I like having an all wheel drive car but really question how much I would actually need/rely on it. Other factors I am evaluating with xi are higher initial cost, less availability, and fewer wheel/tire choices. I would appreciate feedback on how people consider their 330i (or 325i) handles in winter conditions and any other issues I should consider.
Without starting the AWD vs RWD debate around here again, the cons of AWD on a BMW are just as you listed them: The 330Xi is no where to be found. If there is one on a dealer's lot, than someone ordered it and cancelled. Hence the old laws of supply and demand apply. You probably wouldn't get much more than $800 or $1000 off MSRP. The AWD reduces your fuel economy. Xi BMWs are raised 9/10" and I'm not crazy about the way it looks. It is a $1750 option and if money is a consideration (and when is it not), I'd rather spend the money on other options. If you don't get the Sport Package on the RWD car then you should be fine. The Near 50/50 weight distribution, & Dynamic Stability Control with All Season Traction of the 3 series already makes it a favorable car to drive in the snow. The AWD also adds extra weight which translates into bad news when you're trying to stop. Especially being in South Jersey, I wouldn't worry about it. Many of our posters here are from North Jersey and get by on their All Season Tires and RWD. If you're buying the car, you don't know if the AWD system will develop problems in the next few years (Odds are it won't), but that may affect the resale value as well. I think it'd be easier to sell a RWD BMW in 5 or 6 years than an AWD BMW.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
I dont think that Philly weather is severe enough except in exceptional years. Even when it snows, all the major routes (76, Blue route, and 95) are pretty clean.
If you would like the capability, it is nice, but otherwise save your money
yea, but you gotta GET to those major routes... that's the fun part... where i live across the river from philly, when we get any snow at all, our streets are ice covered for days...
but i agree... even a sp equipped bimmer with appropriate rubber and a judicious set of feet and hands will be fine...
huntzinger - I had never really thought about whether there was a REAL Reichenbach Falls. I'm supposed to go to Switzerland in summer 2004. I'll have to go take a look at it.
nyccarguy - when you say you're going to do a 1 week ED, I'll assume you mean 9 days -- Saturday through the following Sunday. Even so, doing Paris will be tough. Remember 2 of those days are going to be transit days. I suppose you could do it though. I've known friends who've driven in Paris (and Rome, even) but I wouldn't want to be doing it in my brand new BMW! Perhaps you could drive straight to the drop off point and then see Paris without it. So your itinerary would be something like this:
SAT - depart NYC, overnight flight
SUN - arrive Munich, see sights, rest
MON - see BMW museum or BMW factory, pick up car, depart Munich and travel to say, Fussen for the night, taking a tour of Neuschwanstein there (number one tourist attraction in Germany)
I agree with your general line of reasoning on x vs. xi. The only thing I wanted to mention is that I do not think the "Near 50/50 weight distribution" per se is a direct contributor to traction in snow. Traction is where the weight of the car is, so as far as snow and only two wheels driving the car, it would actually be beneficial to have most of the weight right on those two drive wheels. Other things equal, a typical FWD or a tail-heavy 911 would gain snow traction more easily than a car with a 50/50 weight distribution.
mmmm... pat's! you just can't get a real cheesesteak any farther than maybe 25 miles from philly... of course, you can't get a real bagel ANYWHERE around here...
It is amazing how moving 2 hours south of Philly can change the food culture entirely. I have not found one respectable cheesesteak here (and yes I will argue with anyone on that) nor have I ever heard of cheese fries around here.
Oh yeah, and the pizza here tastes like it came out of a box.
Sorry, I am getting hungry now!
Also, the Bimmer is great no matter where you are!! (on topic)
The February 1999 issue of Motor Trend, p. 113, has a Car Care article titled "Getting a Grip on Wintery Roads". Has a nice discussion about a 1996 certified test by US Auto Club using RWD 328i with traction control vs. 4WD SUV and two FWD luxury sedans. All the cars had traction control. Then goes on to discuss MT's own test using a Jag Vanden Plas sedan and Jag XJR. Compares traction with TC on and off.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name. 2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h) Review your vehicle
If you agree the old law of demand and supply. This law should be applied in 5 or 6 years later as well. So, I think it should be easiler to sell xi than i.
SHIPO: Thanks for the info. on distances in Europe. I feel much better about doing the trip in 10 days.
HFB: For what it's worth . . . I just ordered a 325xi because, like in your area, the weather here is bad a couple of weeks out of the year. We live in a rural, hilly, apple orchard area of Eastern Washington and our house is on a hill .4 mile up a gravelly, switchbacked driveway. We have a Honda Accord (FWD) and a Subaru Legacy wagon (AWD). The Subaru will make it up the hill in up to 5 inches of snow. The Honda struggles immediately and needs chains (and a good tongue lashing with many references to the word salt used both as a noun and adjective).
I drove a 325xi loaner on a snowy night to see what would happen on our driveway. It went up in 4 inches of snow like a mountain goat--its clearance is much higher than the Subaru's. Although I didn't get a chance to try a 325i in the snow my guess is that on a steep, slippery hill the pulling & pushing dynamic of the AWD is a benefit. I don't know Philly and its environs but if Philly is hilly at all the Xi might be better for you.
Last night I got a ride in a 2002 M3 with SMG. Unbelievable!!! The car, the motor, and the transmission are simply fantastic. On pavement, he had the car wildly fishtailing through two gears. And 8,000 rpm is unreal! It would not be a car for me, since I'm more low-key, but this is a car that will impress anyone!
I found out about a year ago that Chris Bangle went to college in the same small town I grew up in. Way up in north-central Wisconsin, ya hey! Although I am far outnumbered, I like the looks of the new 7 (at least in pictures, but I'm told it is nicer looking in person). I'm going to my dealer next week for an open house. They are going to demo the 7 series and I hope to take one for a test drive. I'll post a note about the experience.
... who like the new 7 series. Of course, it will take us to get accustomed even more to the new look, but I see the new 7 like a kind of "mean" ultimate driving machine that may easily grow on most of us. I did not have a chance to see it in a variety of paints, but the black or dark blue were very nice. Sorry for being slightly off the topic, but can anyone post link to web site(s) showing the new 5-series? And finally, I did not buy my 99 323i because of the looks but because it's simply the best car for that money! Please, do not take me wrong, I am not saying that it is bad looking... actually, I probably like it now more than when I bough it, it is a nicely sculpted car. This certainly also goes for the "new&improved' 2002 model that I ordered to replace my old 99, which will be silver w/black interior. Now I have to get the white lenses for it, and there is again, the best that money can buy! Or as they would say, the U.D.M.
I stand corrected regarding the vehicles near 50/50 weight distribution as an asset in the snow. However you can alter that by putting a bag of sand over each wheel well in the trunk and along with the electronic "save your butt gizmos." My Mom did that for 8 years with her 1990 Mercedes-Benz 300E with no traction control and 4 snow tires (not starting the snow tires vs all season tires debate here).
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Just checked Owners Circle, my 530i, which I ordered 9 days ago, is now scheduled for production. Tickets are in hand, Passports are up to date, but the Calendar still says 6.5 weeks to go. :-(
I think sand bags is a good idea. It seems like a common practice among people that have been driving European RWD's for many years - pre-traction control and DSC. I remember talking to a 5-series owner who was filling up at a gas station in VT on a day when we got a huge snow storm and he was saying that his 5-er does much better with 2 100-lb bags of sand on each side. Also, the weight of the car shifts to the rear under acceleration, so RWD's with a 50/50 weight distribution still get most of the weight on the drive wheels under acceleration.
This post is grossly off topic, but I just thought I'd share with you all the sheer joy I've experienced being a New Yorker in the past hour. First I brought my lunch in from home and while cutting it so it microwaves better, I spilled it all over the floor (now my cube smells like cold chicken and rice even after I cleaned it up). So in order to get lunch, I had to go to the Bank (Chase Manhattan 23rd & 6th). While crossing 23rd street, I was grazed by a cab who couldn't stop soon enough. I landed on my knuckle and bruised it. The guy didn't even stop! Then after I got up, I went to the bank. While crossing back over 23rd street, a delivery guy runs into me & knocks me over...What a SALTY DAY I'm having!
And There was a BMW 3 series sitting at the light (just to stay on topic)
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
I, too, like the looks of the 7 Series. Saw one at a car wash last week (dark blue, sand leather interior) and thought it was VERY impressive looking. It looks quite aggressive, but not macho or anything. Anyway, I'm still a bit thrown by the trunk, but the rest of it is slam-dunk gorgeous in my book. I'm sure the trunk will grow on me as time passes. The interior is also a work of art. Watching the guys wash my 330 and this 745 at the same time gave me a little UDM envy. The guy driving it, however, was WAAAY to concerned about everything and wouldn't even let the car wash attendants drive it from the vacuum station to the drying station. I really hope I never become that anal about my friggin' car.
And, yes, the oil burning is natural. I added about a half quart after about 10,500 miles. Depending on how you drive, you may need to add some a little sooner or a little later. Just make sure you add the approved synthetic variety.
So, Braveheart, what do you think about Duquette's canning? About time?
Do the service lights on the BMWs turn on at the service intervals (15,000) or if it senses you need an oil change at 12,000 or not until 17,000 will it adjust?
I know on my Saab the Service Reminder comes on a few hundred miles before the service is due and then automatically shuts off a few hundred miles afterwards.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
The OBD system is programmed to reflect 667 gallons of gas that have gone through the engine. The 15K mile approximation is based on your projected fuel consumtion.
Comments
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
I too am wondering where the 12 inches extra length go in the 5-er. If the interior dimensions are so similar and the trunk is just marginally bigger, most of them must be going to the hood to accommodate the larger engine bay requirements?!?
-Chris
Look to see the next generation 5 Series bigger than the current generation. Longer overall and longer wheelbase.
It really depends on what you both like, etc.
I'd be tempted to consider the following (NOTE: I haven't tried this itinerary, or even checked its feasibility...or the correct spelling of a lot of the names I'm going to slaughter):
Munich to Fussen (tour Mad Ludwig's castles), hop into Austria and down into Switzerland, through the Alpenzee region (maybe a stop here in Liechtenstein), down to Interlacken area, where xxxx has the waterfalls which is the legendary site of the deaths of Shirlock Holmes and Prof Moriarty). Drive up to to Lauterbrunnen (a valley village with Trummelback falls, plus a ~300ft? waterfall), and stay at the Park Hotel [3 stars] in Grindelwald, with amazing views of the north face of the Eiger across the valley. Take a day off to walk up in the mountains (take the "FIRST" (actually its name) gondola that's a block uphill from the hotel). Leave Grindelwald, retracing out to Interlacken, then work SW, considering a stop in Lenk (two famous waterfalls here; the one is "Seamenfalle? [sic!]") on your way out to Montreau (a waterfront castle there). Drive along the coast of Lake Geneva to Geneva, where I think there's a BMW drop-off point as well as a good airport to fly home through, as well as good rail connections.
-hh
PS: some websites useful to the above:
http://www.grindelwald.ch/
http://www.lenk.ch/
http://www.wengen-muerren.ch/flash/intro-de-muerren.html
http://www.swisspanorama.com/
(BTW, on this last one, the town of Lauterbrunnen is located in the valley shown between the identified landmarks of Wengen and Murren)
Yes, that name sounds about right. I believe its right outside of Meiringen?
I assume this is an actual place-name since Conan Doyle was familiar with Switzerland
It is. Check out
http://www.magic-places.ch/english/reichenb.htm
-hh
I looked at the oil in my M coupe at that mileage and it was pretty dark so I felt good about dumping it out at that time..
DanF
DanF
http://www.caranddriver.com/xp/Caranddriver/features/1999/May/199905_feature_whatp.xml?
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
If you would like the capability, it is nice, but otherwise save your money
but i agree... even a sp equipped bimmer with appropriate rubber and a judicious set of feet and hands will be fine...
-Chris
nyccarguy - when you say you're going to do a 1 week ED, I'll assume you mean 9 days -- Saturday through the following Sunday. Even so, doing Paris will be tough. Remember 2 of those days are going to be transit days. I suppose you could do it though. I've known friends who've driven in Paris (and Rome, even) but I wouldn't want to be doing it in my brand new BMW! Perhaps you could drive straight to the drop off point and then see Paris without it. So your itinerary would be something like this:
SAT - depart NYC, overnight flight
SUN - arrive Munich, see sights, rest
MON - see BMW museum or BMW factory, pick up car, depart Munich and travel to say, Fussen for the night, taking a tour of Neuschwanstein there (number one tourist attraction in Germany)
TUE - Drive to Nancy or Metz
WED - arrive in Paris, drop off car
THU - Paris
FRI - Paris
SAT - Paris
SUN - morning flight back to NYC
mmmm... pat's! you just can't get a real cheesesteak any farther than maybe 25 miles from philly... of course, you can't get a real bagel ANYWHERE around here...
-Chris
Oh yeah, and the pizza here tastes like it came out of a box.
Sorry, I am getting hungry now!
Also, the Bimmer is great no matter where you are!! (on topic)
Everyplace north of DC has a leg-up in some type of food, except for NYC which seems to have a leg-up on many kinds of food.
On topic ... headed for a test drive this weekend. I'm still thinking of ED in June so I've got some time before I have to get moving on it.
Glenn
-Chris
Please respond by March 9 to lordusky@aol.com
Any questions? Contact Edmunds.com PR at jfallon@edmunds.com
Thanks!
kirstie_h
Roving Host
Edmunds.com
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
HFB: For what it's worth . . . I just ordered a 325xi because, like in your area, the weather here is bad a couple of weeks out of the year. We live in a rural, hilly, apple orchard area of Eastern Washington and our house is on a hill .4 mile up a gravelly, switchbacked driveway. We have a Honda Accord (FWD) and a Subaru Legacy wagon (AWD). The Subaru will make it up the hill in up to 5 inches of snow. The Honda struggles immediately and needs chains (and a good tongue lashing with many references to the word salt used both as a noun and adjective).
I drove a 325xi loaner on a snowy night to see what would happen on our driveway. It went up in 4 inches of snow like a mountain goat--its clearance is much higher than the Subaru's. Although I didn't get a chance to try a 325i in the snow my guess is that on a steep, slippery hill the pulling & pushing dynamic of the AWD is a benefit. I don't know Philly and its environs but if Philly is hilly at all the Xi might be better for you.
I found out about a year ago that Chris Bangle went to college in the same small town I grew up in. Way up in north-central Wisconsin, ya hey! Although I am far outnumbered, I like the looks of the new 7 (at least in pictures, but I'm told it is nicer looking in person). I'm going to my dealer next week for an open house. They are going to demo the 7 series and I hope to take one for a test drive. I'll post a note about the experience.
Dave
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Best Regards,
Shipo
I am at 12K miles for my 325ci and yesterday my engine ol light came on. I checked and the oil was low.
I have not been driving my car hard at all and I was wondering if it was natural for the car to burn off oil.
My old car, a honda accord never burned any oil.
Has any of you had to top off your oil before the scheduled oil change?
thanks
And There was a BMW 3 series sitting at the light (just to stay on topic)
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
2) you've driven TWELVE THOUSAND MILES and haven't checked the oil?????
-Chris
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
And, yes, the oil burning is natural. I added about a half quart after about 10,500 miles. Depending on how you drive, you may need to add some a little sooner or a little later. Just make sure you add the approved synthetic variety.
So, Braveheart, what do you think about Duquette's canning? About time?
-Chris
I am thankful he brought Pedro Martinez from the Expos and locked him up with a long-term deal, though.
nyccarguy - what a story... that's a classic.
No you weren't!
I know on my Saab the Service Reminder comes on a few hundred miles before the service is due and then automatically shuts off a few hundred miles afterwards.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD