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Comments
I've given several people rides in my 325i w/SP and everyone has been impressed by the performance and smoothness. Clearly your experience differs from the majority that I have encountered.
2) You definately found a non-ubiquitous car in the CTS! Just curious, what kind of 0-60 times were you quoted?
I hope you enjoy driving your new car as much as I do mine.
-murray
I would have loved to have gotten the extra juice, but the wife didn't think it wise.
-Paul
* In training this week, with a RENTAL Alero
With you owning a 5 series now, you gonna leave us 3 series owners behind?
BTW, on the way to San Diego, I got blown away by 2 Diablos, a Viper, and an M5.
1) This is where I started researching BMWs back in 1998
2) This is one of the most civil and mutualy supportive boards I have ever come across
3) I like the folks that contribute here (and would probably like most of the folks that "lurk" here as well, if they would only post ;-))
4) As of tommorrow, I will become part of the "3-Series Alumni", however, I think that I still have the ability to be a constructive member here
5) After our recent ED experience with my 530i, my wife wants to do the ED thing again so that she can get a 3-Series in the next year or so (we will keep the Green Caravan as a third/family car ;-)), as such, there may well be a 3-Series in our garage again
Best Regards,
Shipo
I don't know about the rest of this board, but I have found your posts very helpful and some of the best stated.
I hope you stick around.
Paul
Best Regards,
Shipo
My buddy and I swapped cars this weekend. He drove my 99 323i (manual + SP, of course!) and I drove his Honda S2000 (for the second time in his car). Not a real apples-to-apples comparison, but to add to all the folks that have already commented above - it's not all about the HP. My buddy picked up his S2000 for about $38k (equivalent to a pretty loaded 330i) and I'm sure he felt my 323i was dog slow. But as exhilirating as I felt about rev'ing the S2000 to 8-9k rpm's and having the top down and liking the cool short shifter, to me I STILL prefer my 323i on any given day! I would love to have the S2000 as a third vehicle, weekend car, but my friend couldn't even fit all his and his wife's stuff for a 4-day trip from LA to Bay Area in his car! And as I was driving his car, I felt that the engine was way too noisy (even at low rpm's) and how uncomfortable it would feel for any long road trips. My wife was with me on the test drive and she asked me, 'would you consider this car over the bimmer?' My response, 'No way! I'd rent the S2000 for a weekend or something, but that's it.' And here's the part that made me appreciate why HP's is not everything: My friend was behind me and we were both taking an freeway offramp (that has the big cloverleaf turn) and I pushed his S2000 around that bend. I noticed that at only 50mph, his real wheels were already skidding and I felt a little unsafe and started to lose confidence. I have taken that same turn in my 323i numerous times, and even at higher speeds, but I never had that uneasy feeling nor did I hear the my tires start skidding. I told my buddy about that afterwards and he looked disappointed but nodded and said, 'it doesn't have skid control.' The S2000 is pure sports car, but I appreciate my 323i for its practicality, luxury, looks, fun, performance, handling....you get the idea.
PS - by the way, my wife too is now falling in love with the 5 series....ED? Ahh, all things in good time!
I own a 2001 325Ci with manual tranny & the Sports Package. The car is no slouch. It was clocked at 0-60 in 6.3 seconds with two people sitting inside. Handling is incredible, to say the least. You compare the 3 to an Oldsmobile Alero. First, you should do the research. The V6 Alero has 170 hp. If your "size does matter" point is the basis for contention, then you don't really have a leg to stand on here. I would go toe-to-toe with an Alero any day. Plus, my ex-girlfriend owned one. Good pickup, but kind of a slushbucket. No handling capabilities to speak of and it's about as refined as a can of corned beef hash. But don't take my word for it. Edmunds says:
"Where the Alero can't match up is in refinement. Drive an Alero Coupe and an Accord Coupe back to back, and you'll notice a large disparity in overall feel, especially through the controls.
Need some examples? The Alero's variable-effort steering is hopelessly bad, being way too light at low speeds and having a level of communication equal to a dead trout. The brake pedal is another offender, as it is overly stiff. For our magical manual transmission car that shouldn't exist yet, the clutch is feather-light and the shifter is chunky with long throws. Need some more? Interior trim pieces can be wiggled and flexed. There are a wide variety of glosses and grains to interior materials. Storage cubbies, except the handy one at the bottom of the center stack, aren't padded to resist rattles when items are stashed. Design shortcuts and compromises are more blatantly evident."
And there ya go.
I don't know what economy car you drove but I have a '96 Nissan Altima and the 325 does not feel remotely alike.
<<I really liked the 330i but two things sent me down the road to Cadillac: 1) The BMW sales staff was supercilious>>
I'm buying a car not a dealer. The last dealer that I really liked was when I bought my Ranger. That is because there was no hassle.
<<2) The 3 series is as ubiquitious as the Honda Accord.>>
The CTS may not be ubiquitious because off many reasons: Cadillac are retirement type cars, the design is too far out there for most traditional Cadillac drivers, small Cadillacs don't sell that well. The way I see it, too many cannot be wrong. Per Autoweek, I believe that the BMW 3er was America's favourite car.
<<I agree that a car is more than horsepower, but then again, when I think of luxury cars the only make that strikes me as synonymous with performance is BMW.>>
I don't think that BMW has really considered themselves to be a luxury car maker, please check out what models most Europeans drive (320i sans leather). In the U.S., they are more of a luxury marque. This is probably done to keep the prestige but with the affluence of our great nation, a lot of people can afford to own or lease. BMW is first and foremost a drivers' car. Who cares about passengers???
Even if I had to do my buying experience again. I would buy a 325i but with the five speed manual. Some aspects of the CTS look fine but Cadillac has killed the front end on the CTS, Escalade and EXT. They will also mess up their image. Cadillac might become nothing more than a cruiser for hoodrats.
Shipo: please do hang around, you're a great resource.
NYCCarGuy - congratulations on your new car, am sure it will be fun for you.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Before leaving, I showed her one more feature on the 3-series...the owner's manual.
I can relate to that. Finding little things on the car that you didn't know about (for whatever reason) make it feel like buying a new car all over again.
I am a typical guy. I don't RTFM very often, unless something goes wrong. I usually have all the gadgets figured out pretty quick, but still find good stuff all the time. (I just found out how to roll down all windows with the key!)
Little things make the difference.
-Paul
I keep seeing BMW's all over San Diego... man I miss my car.
I drove a steptronic 325i w/o the SP. I'd imagine a manual trans with SP makes it far more fun to drive.
Officially the manual CTS does 0-60 in 6.9, the automatic in 7.2.
ddblue:
The Alero does produce around 200 lb-ft of torque with its 170 hp engine. I never said it was a better car than the 325i but if I owned a 3 I would want the more powerful engine so I could leave cars like Grand Ams and Aleros in the dust.
seivwrig:
Have you seen MTV's Cribs lately? Deville's and Escalades are actually pretty popular vehicles with rock stars, actors and athletes, all of whom are hardly retirement-aged, blue-haired consumers. Small Cadillacs haven't sold well in the past, but then again, GM never did offer a car like the CTS before.
I'm not really brand loyal so I'm not interested in getting into a BMW vs. Cadillac debate, but for you doubters out there: the CTS is no Catera. It will hold it's own.
Note for the PC police: I think you know me better than that ;o)
Any feedback from an owner would be appreciated.
I know 0-60 isn't the only measure of performance, but those times are close to or greater than most of the 325i times I've seen posted. Motorweek, for example, clocked a 323Ci at 6.5 seconds. http://www.mpt.org/motorweek/reviews/rt1907a.shtml The sedan should be slightly slower, but the 325 has another dozen ponies to draw from.
In the end, I find your comments on performance amusing since the car you bought appears to be slower (or at least no faster) than a 325i despite an extra 36 hp.
I suggest you try a 325 with a manual and sport package. On the other hand, doing so may cause more Bimmer envy.
Again, enjoy your car.
-murray
I thought they had identical times. The weight is about the same (give or take a dozen pounds), so why the difference?!?
Sigh...
And certainly your observation about the sex appeal of one of those dead presidents over the other is right on target. :-)
You will have some performance degradation between the 325 and the 330. You don't have near the HP or torque. But for my needs of a lot of highway driving AND a lot of mountain driving, it works for me. I have 2 kids, so hauling them around was something that concerned me. The 2.5 handles it quite well. It also keeps me from getting in too much trouble. It has NO problems going 100+.
- Paul
Then you factor in the additional traction from the front tires.
Nothing like throwing in the monkey wrench..
-Paul
Man...if folks think Benzes and Bimmers are ubiquitous now in the US, just imagine how ubiquitous they'd be if they were available for $10k less by stripping them to the bone and putting in smaller engines. I took a look at a German price list and the base SLK 200 lists at 27,350 Euros which is only USD $24,700 excluding VAT.
Another giveaway that the US gets shafted was the S-class taxi I saw. I hardly think that the 60-ish Taxifahrer who was driving it plunked down USD $80,000+ for it :-)
Back to the subject, even by European standards, BMWs and Mercs are high priced but there is a greater range (316 compact thru Z8 or A190 thru S600 or G-wagon). With the relatively good wages and low tax that we have in the U.S. If we had the low end model Audis, Mercs and BMWs, I think we would see more of those cars. The reality in Europe is that these cars become more prestigious as you go up the range. One thing also to consider, alot of these cars (at least in England) are not privately owned but company perks. If this was true over here, most of us would be glad to always drive a new BMW every three years. The markets are different. In the U.S., I think we like superficial things like more HP, more trunk space, fast 0-60 time, bigger car. In Europe, it is more like, does it look good, how does it drive, what is the gas mileage. I still remember when the Mini Metro('80) came out tooting over 50 mpg. The car was cute then but ugly now. As far as luxury goes, I think in England it is probably anything over 20K pounds sterling (about $30K).
What I do like about the C-class in Europe is the trim lines (Elegance, Avantgarde and Classic) and Engine lines (1.8l, 2.0l, 2.4l, 3.2l, 2.2l diesel, 2.7l diesel and AMG). Price range is from 21K-50+K pounds sterling. I could live with that. The 520i is about the same price as the 325i, it not as fast but you have everything else like the same handling that you expect from a BMW.
Best Regards,
Shipo
While I was waiting for them to remount my rear wheels, I called Steve over at http://www.ultimategarage.com and he gave me a quote of $117.96 for new pads and rotors, needless to say, when they asked me when I wanted to bring my car in for the brakes, they were surprised to learn that I already had the parts on order AND that I was intending to do the work myself.
Timing is everything in life, and last Friday was no exception. When I pulled in to my garage that evening, I switched off my car, and then realized that I wanted to hear the next news story, so I turned the key (intending to only go as far as ACC., however, I accidentally went to RUN), and thirty seconds later, the light went out!
Given that they had already diagnosed that my car needed rear brakes, I knew that if I was to turn the car in tomorrow with those same brakes, they would charge me the $370 and do the brakes before approving the lease return, so, today I picked up the new rotors and pads from Steve. This time, I was able to do both wheels in almost exactly one hour (it took me over two hours last time for the fronts), and low and behold, my old pads looked like they had AT LEAST 10,000 miles of additional life (GRRRRR). I cannot really blame the dealership too much, because the rotor was worn enough to be below minimum spec, so, clearly a brake job was imminent, however, if the light had gone out 24 hours earlier, I would not have needed to do this second brake job.
The moral of this story? With my 530i, I will simply do all four wheels every 35,000 miles or so, and avoid the entire “Brake Light” issue altogether.
Best Regards,
Shipo
In reality, the CTS and 325 are probably pretty evenly matched. It's funny how 220 hp can be considered "underpowered" or at least barely keep up with an underpowered 184 hp. LOL
-murray
Actually, you can remove the key after turning off the car and push the power button on the radio to listen for up to 20 minutes or so. Also, the windows and sunroof operate until a door is opened.
-murray
When I drove Brave1hearts’ car last fall, I also noticed that the time shows on the radio display when the radio is switched off. My car does not do that either, I wonder if the clock feature was added at the same time as the 20-minute grace period.
Best Regards,
Shipo
DL
DL
Kind of suttle, but I noticed it when I reached up there for something at night. At first, I thought a cover was missing.
-murray
DL