BMW 3-Series 2005 and earlier

wrjohnsonpghpa

I just priced out your deal to see if you did better locally than I did by driving to Erie ($1,500 over invoice). I would, of course, have preferred to have bought locally (although whether or not 3 Rivers is local for me, is debatable). It looks like you're paying $1,715 over invoice (if your paying $1,000 less than MSRP), although you did get the front bumper strip thrown it, which cost me about $13.00. I know the $215 was worth it to you to buy locally. Now for me, that's maybe a college textbook or two for one of my kids. Since it was your wife who wouldn't drive you to Erie, may I suggest that you deduct it from her Christmas present.

brave1heart

pierce1 - "I couldn't imagine owning a luxury car w/out power seats and an armrest/storage console." Your statement would ring true if applied to luxury cars. To me, the 3-series has always been about sport first and luxury second. BMW AG has moved the 3-series closer to a luxury car by adding standard features, weight, etc. and a lot of the recent buyers are getting the car mostly for its luxury features, build quality, and residual value. What surprises me is that you as a luxury buyer have been dreaming about a BMW since 1987. Back then, BMW's were probably 80/20 sport/luxury. Today they are closer to 50/50 sport/luxury. When you were dreaming about a BMW in 1987, wasn't it for its handling mostly?!? I know it was the handling for me...

As far as standard features, I want none of the ones you are describing:
- the armrest gets in my way of shifting gears and I like to keep both hands on the wheel at all times
- I don't need additional torque for the base engine. I'll take a little more horsepower if it were free.
- the fold-down rear seats are pretty useless. If anything, they may be reducing the structural rigidity of the car.
- covered cup holders - I don't use cupholdes in the car. I drive, I don't ride.
- A better interior storage console - all I keep inside the car is some old maps and 40 or so CD's. What do you keep that needs so much room?
I am not a fan of stripped down cars - I have a CD player, H-K, moonroof, xenons, trip computer, heated seats in my 325i with sport package. These are all the options I needed and wanted. I was close to getting the leather but in retrospect I am glad I did not. I could care less about wood, dimming mirrors, rain-sensing wipers, etc. Maybe when I'm 70 some day I will.

seivwrig - "For $100K, you will not get a navigation system" if I spent that kind of money on an exotic, I would not want any technical gizmos in it. Unless the nav system can serve as a driving instructor on the track and it does not weigh too much.

Handling and practicality is what put BMW's on the map, not luxury. I hope BMW AG remembers that well but judging from the new 7 design, it may be mixing its priorities up right now... I also realize that some people need technical gizmos in their cars while others don't. This is why gizmos should be an option but never standard. I don't ever want to see the iDrive as standard in the 3-series. BMW AG should spend more resources on improving the initial quality and reliability of their cars, not loading them with features that most people don't need; not just yet at least.

claywaterfill

Looking to replace my wife's car next year. She really likes the 5-Series, but we'd have to go used as the purchase would have to stay in the low thirties. I always assumed the 3-Series was a very small car. I even said in this thread a while ago that with three kids, there would be no 3-Series in our future. We figured the Passat may be the way to go because a nicely equipped GLX would give some of the German engineering we desire. What does all this have to do with this thread? A little research (brought on because of the July Road & Track) shows the 325i to have virtually the same size interior as the Passat. The Passat's extra size is apparently given to the trunk--not the interior of the car. Now, we have a mini van for family hauling and our kids are young (read: small), plus we never take our car when all 5 of us go somewhere at once--so the 325i is now high on the list of possibilities. Playing around with "build your own" I think I can get what we need in the $33k range. Here is what I'm looking for advice on. I'm thinking about the manual transmission because I could not imagine getting a 3-Series BMW with an automatic. I'm also looking at the Premium Package because we definitely want the sunroof, and it seems as though power seats and the other goodies in the package would be desirable in a BMW. Would get the folding rear seat because even though it may only get used once a year, it's usually a life saver when it's needed. I like the idea of the Xenon headlights, but probably won't get them as I've heard that in urban areas you lose some of the advantage because of how much the roads are lit up anyway. Would like the Harmon/Kardon sound system, but can't decide of it's really necessary. By not getting the Xenons and the H/K, should be able to get the Sport Package. But, I don't think I need it. The car will be primarily driven by my wife, and I don't think she would take advantage of it. What do you think? Premium Package, folding rear seat, probably the H/K and MAYBE the Xenons; or, Sport Package and no H/K and Xenons? Or no Xenons at all? Sorry to ramble, I'll cut it off now!

tenet1

To your point about BMW mixing its priorities, I think that it stinks that good handling and performance is an "option" via an SP.

seivwrig

good point. Maybe SP should be standard and everything else should be an option. I think competition has forced BMW to switch gears. In Germany, the A4 outsells the 3er. Based on the average Americans desire in an auto, it should hold true in the States. I think the BMW name is selling the car more than the handling. Most BMW owners are not auto-Xing. Let alone looking for twisty roads. I could never be an enthusiast because the BMW does not rank high on my list of important things. I bought the car based on drive performance vs an Audi A4 1.8T (3.0 Quattro was not available at the time that I was in the market). Even now, I would be the happy owner of an Audi A4 3.0 or Passat V6 GLX. I like how German cars drive, PERIOD. BMW like M-B does not care much about the enthusiast because of sheer numbers. Look at the SL, it went from racer to convertible for rich folks wanting to be seen. It went far from it racing roots, especially in the 80's. What is the future of BMW? who knows? But the enthusiast will not have the last say.

eos

We just got a 325i with PP, heated front seats, metallic and leather -- cost was below your limit. My wife (it's her car) would also drive nothing but the manual. We love it. Go for it!

bob

chewie5

My advice is, go out and test drive them back to back, if you haven't already. It's really a matter of personal preference. I got a 325i for my wife recently, and it has SP, PP, Xenon, heated seats, leather, and step. We both absolutely love the car. You didn't list step and leather as things that you wanted. If you were able to get the same deal that I got (and not get step and leather), you should be able to get all the options you do want for around $33k and not have to decide at all between them!

I didn't opt for the folded seats because I have them in my Accord, and I rarely use them. I didn't get the HK because I thought the base stereo was sufficient. If I had to do it over again, I'd probably not opt for the PP and just get the moonroof and power seats, and get a 5sp.

You really won't go wrong with this car. It is a dream to drive. Just find out what makes you and your wife happy and go for it. I really do wish I could have justified spending more $$$ for the 330, but I will say that there has never been a time that I have gotten behind the wheel of our 325 and haven't grinned from ear to ear.

bjbird2

You are way off base if you think the G-35 isn't superior for quality and build. The Japanese brands always have the upper hand in quality and build.

rttucker

What exactly is the M aerodynamic package?

shipo

I just worked up some prices on my handy dandy “Notebook” (thanks Blue ;-)), and I came up with the following prices that you should be able to find without too much work. The car I configured was a 2002 325i 5-Speed, non-Metallic paint, Leather Seats, Fold Down Rear Seats, Premium Package, Bi-Xenon Headlights and Harman Kardon audio system.

Without SP:

U.S. Invoice Plus $1,500: $32,420.00
E.D. Invoice Plus $1,500: $30,535.00

With SP:

U.S. Invoice Plus $1,500: $33,695.00
E.D. Invoice Plus $1,500: $31,810.00

It seems that you should be able to all your heart desires AND the SP as well. ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

bmw323is

Yes, I've had some experience with both Denver dealers and know of a few local shops. But it might be better if you emailed me direct since I don't think there are any other regular posters here from the Mile-High city (don't want to bore anyone). My email address is desler1000@aol.com. I would also like to find out a few details about your ED using an east coast dealer. And we are both Cheeseheads! Since the Avalanche got trounced tonight, I will start thinking about the Pack again.

dl7265

seeya patrick ROY

postoak

Surely the PP includes leather seats?

shipo

PP includes leather for the 330i, it is a stand-alone $1,450 option on the 325i.

Best Regards,
Shipo

nobee

Temperature hovered around the low '80s yesterday and damn, it seemed as if the black leatherette was on fire! I wonder if the black leather would of been just as hot to the touch?
Seivwrig, I know you ordered your 3-series with black interior. How are you holding up with the black interior in Houston?

-nobee

john01

My other car is black and has a black leather interior. I am not sure how it feels with the leatherette, but leather would feel just about the same. I try not to make contact with the seat cushion when wearing shorts.

brave1heart

...the 7 comes with cloth seats standard in Germany and a lot fewer standard options than its U.S. sibling. Just goes to show how much more demanding the U.S. market is as far as luxury.

vkwheels

I agree with John01. I used to have black leather in my Vigor & was unhappy about that seat heat. Bare legs ouch, and the back of my silk blouse would be drenched. Unpleasant AND unattractive, not to mention makes a poor impression on clients. I would be interested in cloth seats, given the choice. PETA people would like the choice too. So, does anyone on this board have the sheepskin seat Vests? I'm considering that option. I was also surprised to finally understand the differences of what you get in a 325 PP vs. the 330, the leather & the 8-way adjustable. I'm still a little confused on the latter, because it sounds like they changed it sort of mid-way through this year, based on the comments posted here.

Saw an ad for 3.9% APR from BMW Financing. Am unsure whether this pertains to just the CPO cars. Left message with dealer. Will post update if the news is positive, i.e. that sweet rate is more widely available than the paper said.

You know I can probably continue to drive my little car for a good while yet. Registration's paid up, no work anticipated except maybe tires later this year or next. Argghh.

ClayWaterFill - go for SP if that is what your heart desires. That car would be loaded. Except I'd spring for the metallic paint. Honda did that in 1985--the red & blue Preludes were more expensive than the charcoal. I thought it was ridiculous then & now, I paid it then & will pay now. what a S-u-c-k-e-r :-) sheesh, this is a long post.

ultrarunner

Has anyone purchased a 2002 3 series with fabric instead of leather or leatherette upholstery?

kdshapiro

I had occasion to stop by the dealer today as I walked into the showroom and saw the cars on the floor, I was literally taken aback by the grace, style and beauty of the model line. Now I have always admired the BMW and have owned a number of different manufactures cars. But never quite got that "rush". The only other manufacturer where I felt anything similiar was walking into a Porsche dealership.

Even though Bimmers dollar for dollar, option by option, engine size by engine size are more expensive than the Japanese manufacturers counterparts, to me it was worth the money getting this car over some of the other competition.

There is nothing to buy into here, BMW makes gorgeous cars that have an overall high level of performance and comfort.

nobee

I was under the impression that you only had two choices--leather or leatherette. I do know, however, the fabric is available in european spec bimmers.

john01: I try not to make contact with the seat cushion when wearing shorts.
Lesson learned on my part. lol.

brave It's so true. The american market is very demanding when it comes to luxury goods. I stopped by the bmw dealership today and I would be willing to bet half of their new bimmers had cloth seats and no air conditioning. I'm not sure that car would sell that well in the states.
I'm going to stop by again on thurs and ask if you can get the Z8 with cloth! Hopefully, they won't smack me too hard...lol

-nobee

john01

Pretty much only things that are standard in Germany, and some other places in Europe are the engine and the transmission. You have to literally add everything else as option. I mean everything, stereo, wheels, suspension set up, seats, power-anything, cruise, various trims, etc. When I looked at our US spec 530, the order sheet listed everything as individual options, even though they are grouped as a pkg. in US. You really do get what you pay for here.

claywaterfill

Thanks for your help!

swanky1

I'll be in the market for a car within the next few months and thought I'd pose some questions for whomever can answer them. If these have been answered already, sorry, but there are too many posts to sift through.

I'm considering the 330 with the sport package; is there a really distinct difference between having the sport package and without (e.g., stiffer ride, etc.)?

Can you negotiate on the car price, or is demand so strong that you have to pay sticker, or is it a regional thing?

By the time I'm ready to buy, the '03 version may be available; does anyone know of any major differences between the '02 and '03 version?

Has anyone acquired their vehicle via the European delivery program? If so, what was the experience like and would you recommend going that route?

Thanks for any help anyone can provide.

john01

I am sure many will reply to your question, as everyone here is quite helpful. If you do not want to wait, just going back 200 messages will answer all of your questions.

Since I started typing,

1. It seems price can be negotiable, depending on how much time and effort you want to put into.

2. ED (European Delivery) is highly recommended, and you can definitely save more money this way. www.eurobuyers.com will give you invoice prices.

3. Sport pkg does stiffen up the ride, but if you like to have fun and can live with the ride, it is worth getting. However, each person has different opinion on what is comfortable and what is not, you should definitely test drive both to make sure that you are comfortable with it. Most people here will tell you to go for it, but you are the one that will have to live with it, no one else.

swanky1

Thanks for the rapid response.... just one more thing. My first thought is go for the 5 speed manual; I'd like to also hear how that compares to the auto transmission with the clutchless shifting.

martin41

Hi Guys, has anyone ever got top speed on a 96, 97, 98, 99, and/or a 2000 328, std ship, with a stock engine, can the top one do a hundred and fifty mph on highway. Has anyone ever tried it, I'm just curious to know? Thanks a lot for your honest answer.

riez

martin41... BMW uses electronic speed limiters. Even much more powerful car like my 540i6 is electronically limited to 155 mph (as are most other German high performance cars). Thinking the M5 and Z8 (and maybe M3?) are exceptions. I was thinking all 3 Series, even those with Sport Pkg, are limited at or below 130 mph. And if you see a 3 Series with H-rated or lower rated tires, then they have to be limited to 130 mph or less as H-rating is only for 130 mph.

But don't fret too much. Even the 7 Series is limited. Removing and replacing the "chip" can raise the speed limit of your car, but you should make sure you have the right speed rating on your tires.

seivwrig

The Infiniti G35, though a good car, has too much plastic. Hence, interior quality is average for a entry level lux sport sedan.

It amazes me how many G35 lovers hang out on a group for people interested in buying a 3er. There is a board for G35 vs. 3er.

As far as I am concerned, I have not slammed the G35. The car is a quality product with no proven track record. But like I said before, I have sat in one and there was too much plastic for me. Too gimmicky. I don't suffer G35 envy because I prefer Lotuses. Though a Lotus Elise has less HP than a G35, it still falls in the fun to drive catagory. The G35 may have won a comparo but the peoples' choice is still a 3er (no the writers are not getting paid to say that)

seivwrig

Right now, the tinted windows are saving me a little. If I was not wearing pants today, I would have got scorced. The A/C does work well but not as well as my Ford pickup. Black on black is fine, but tinted windows do help. If my job did not have a parking garage, I would probably get burned by the leather daily.

I picked up more battle scars this week. We had hail in S. Houston (this is the first time that I have seen hail South of Downtown). I got about three nicks to add to the autobahn nicks. I will have to get these touched up. Protecting a new car is pointless. Just be prepared to see the paint/body shop a few times.

postoak

Gurumike (a BMW salesman) ordered his car with cloth seats:

gurumike Jun 27, 2001 10:18am

gurumike Jun 27, 2001 8:01pm

john01

All passenger cars manufactured in Germany are limited to 155 mph, except sports cars like Porsche. It is a sort of self imposed limit by the manufacturers. For BMWs, US versions are limited to 128 mph for the most part, with the exception of 540 sports, M series, and X5 4.4, which are limited to 155 as well. You may see your car going a little faster if you try it, but the speedo is a bit optimistic and will show higher indicated, to the tune of 5 to 6%

ultrarunner

I will try to follow up with gurumike off list about ordering anthracite cloth in lieu of leatherette.

john01

X5 4.4 with sport pkg is limited to 143, and 4.6is is limited to 150.

nobee

wow, Edmunds is a beautiful place isn't? We can go back all the way to post#6394 and find out that one of our members did in fact purchase a bimmer with cloth seats. Awesome!

-nobee

nobee

Yes, hail can play a number on your car. I remember when I lived in San Angelo, you would see a lot of cars with "cellulite" looking dimples all over the frame.
If I may ask, did you tint all your windows and how much did that cost? Thinking about doing it on my next bimmer.

-nobee

div2

The 150 mph top speed of the X5 4.6is drag limited rather than software limited.

hpowders

Any ideas on how low a money factor you can negotiate on a BMW lease when you have very good credit? My credit score is 776. I have seen a money factor of 0.00249 which is 5.9%-kind of high I think. Does anyone know if 0.0023(about 5.5%) is achievable? 5.5% is what I can get on a new car bank loan. I have e-mailed 4 dealers last night asking for a 325I lease, 36 months, 36000 miles, PP, AT in Titanium Silver for 1200 above invoice, a high residual of $19654 which I saw in a recent ad to keep my monthly payment down(I won't buy the car when the lease is over), a money factor of 0.0023, no security deposit and no money down except for fees-the monthly payment works out to $424.44 before taxes? Does anyone know if what I am asking for is possible or am I completely out of my mind? Thanks.

jpcbearden

Anybody been with Progressive? Got a quote from Progressive better than our current provider. Just not sure if they are good responding to customers? Any info would be appreciated. Thanks.

leenelsonmd

Just catching up on the board. Too many posts to respond to.

Hpowders - my wife says my credit score is 786. Her's is 791. I have no idea what this means and I can't answer your question.

mg330ci: The M3 did not get trounced in the R&T article. It was 7th in objective performance, true, but was rated 4th by the R&T editors subjectively, which is exactly why people love it -- the numbers do not tell the whole story. 2 of the 7 cars do not exist in the US yet. Of the remaining 4 cars that beat it look at what "trounced" it -- Ferrari 360 Modena ($171k), Porsche 911T ($120k) -- I should hope that both of these cars outperform the M3. The two cars which were similar in price the Z06 and the Boxster S were not overwhelmingly better and the z06 was given a next to last subjective rating by R&T. The rankings stand, but it is not accurate to say that the M3 got trounced. Notice however the G35 was not even invited to the party.

leenelsonmd

It is true that I have been reading every car magazine that I can put my hands on for the last few months--Is this a bad thing?

One trend that cannot be denied no matter what the purists might like to think is that the overwhelming tide of new cars are going to have LOTS of HP in the next 2-3 years. I do not know what BMW is planning, but increasing the base HP on the 325 and increasing the top trim HP on the 330 certainly must be on the horizon and I think it will happen before '06. I think that '03 or '04 will see the 3 series boosted to 220HP and 270HP or around there. It is just a guess, but when you see that the PONTIAC GRAND AM may have 290HP in the next couple of years, it does not take a genius to figure out the direction of the luxury/sport market.

Admittedly I am at an empasse -- I love the E46 and want to upgrade from my E36 (primarily because my E36 is an automatic), but I have decided to wait until '03 and hope for a sweet surprise. I do not know what to do, because there is a very high likelihood that no significant changes will occur and the decision will be complicated by the 275HP 6speed manual transmission G35 due out in November. If they strip 90% of the plastic out of that thing then my decision will be that much more tough. Hopefully BMW squashes the G35 soon.

kdshapiro

The direction certainly is toward more HP and lower gas mileage in sedans and luxo-sedans. A very sad trend indeed. The 3 series sedans will probably never get to 270+ hp. But how about a 330i with gas mileage starting at 26 mpg with a valvetronic engine, while boosting the HP p a bit. I'll take that anyday over the G35 or G35 coupe. I think the 5 series is where all the engine action is going to be.

abcnyc

I have a 330i with the SP, and I just found out that my tires were at 40+ psi. I have read where they are set high for transportation, and often the dealers forget to lower the pressure. Here's my question. The manual indicates the pressure should be 30 psi for the front and 35 psi for the rear. The plate on the driver side door indicates 32 psi for the front and 38 psi for the rear. It's not a lot of difference, but why is there a discrepacy, and which would be correct ?

leenelsonmd

I do lament somewhat over the trend towards increasing HP and lower fuel efficiency. I think that in the very near future (5-10yrs) the government will probably intervene in some manner to shift towards lower HP and insane fuel efficiency. 60-100mpg would be nice and is currently available with Honda Hybrids. In the mean time I am going to try to enjoy all the HP that I can get.

To clarify a little: I am not in love with the G35, in fact I find it rather interesting that with all that extra HP it still can just barely keep up with the 330 on a straight road. What has peaked my interest more than HP is the 6speed gearbox they are going to put on the coupe. This may indeed help to squeeze some more performance and some more fuel efficiency out of the coupe giving it at least honorable mention status among affordable sports cars.

gurumike

My new favorite is (very aptly named) "Grand Turismo" cloth which is cloth with leather side bolsters. A total deal at, if I remember correctly, $675. I don't know the option code, but put your 'client advisor' to work!! Worth remembering that, at this stage, 'special' orders may not be currently accepted by BMW NA. Last year, no non-standard options were accepted until January production.

My 2c on the G35 - It is, in my humble opinion, the first true competitor for our amazing E46. I feel the handling to be a little twitchy under braking and cornering when compared to the 3er, but overall it is a spectacular package. When you consider that a 325i with Premium, sunroof and leather costs more than a same spec G35, it looks even better. Don't worry, I'm not about to jump ship. But with an open mind, Infiniti has achieved everything Toyota so desperately wanted to do with the Altezza/Lexus IS300. And it makes a really cool noise under acceleration! (Did you ever break for that intake, brave ?!) The airbox on The G is open and exposed to cause a ram air effect which no doubt causes the intake roar. I feel it is the first car ever out of Japan to truly compete with the high-end Germans (both of them, sorry Audi). An arguabley better car than the new C class.

gurumike

I meant to say that special orders were NOT accepted until Jan production.

ultrarunner

I am trying to secure October 2002 European Delivery so it looks like I won't be able to make a special fabric request.

Does the Leatherette hold up better than leather?

Would you know if it is to early to place my factory order? My Dealer said he would get back to me in a week or so.

seivwrig

I paid $125 for my tint and it has a lifetime warrantee against bubbling, peeling and fading. A little bit higher than most but I knew the quality would be good. From my observation, it does not seem like a lot of BMW owners in Houston get the tint put on their windows. As a matter of fact, a family friend, that has a C32 asked me about a tint yesterday.

seivwrig

I do have the number for the Gran Turismo sports seats the only colour is Anthracite. Code is E4AT. I don't know if there another but this is the one that I have.

sunnybrook

I didn't really notice this fact until now (or maybe i just forgot), but apparently only the 330's come with the titanium trim on the cockpit instrumentation (spedometer and such). Is there any way to add this to a 325 and has anyone had such experience? It seems it may be more trouble than it's worth as you'd need to remove the "glass" covering those gauges...