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Yes, it is cheaper, that is, BMW sells you one for less. Why do they do this? Well, the speculation is that German tax laws subsidize BMW because the government knows this helps the tourist industry.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
I am single and hardly ever have anyone else in my car so the 4-door issue is mute with me. I am just finishing grad school, taking my first job in September, and want to ditch my 98 Ford Taurus for a hot new car to say, "hey, I have finally finished 10 years of training and ready to face the world." I think the 3-series will be perfect!!!
I have decided not to spend the extra $6K for the convertible, but I think the coupe is a hotter, sportier car than the sedan (which I also love, btw).
Now, I have to find a dealer, and get the best price. I want to do the ED, but am a little scared about all the handling details. I don't have any time off from my new job until the week between Christmas and New Years, and besides the car can be picked up in November.
Does it make sense for me to fly over to Germany over a long weekend to pick up the car, and turn around and fly back? The airfare is only $360 RT from Atlanta, and I can always use my tons of airmiles saved up. I can find a cheap B&B for the weekend, pick the car up on Friday, drive it over the weekend, and drop it off on Monday and fly home.
What do you guys (and gals) think? Thanks again for all of your advice.
My salesman has been really great so far and I have no reason to doubt him. What do you guys think?
http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/generations/articles/66153/article.html
You can also look up used car prices at kbb.com. A 98 328is retails for $25,075, so they're not trying to rip you. A 99 323is goes for $26,315 with leather and alloy wheels. Since it is the latest generation, it might be worthwhile to test drive one to see whether you like the newer E46 better or not.
As far as the lower horsepower engines, you probably don't want a 318, which is a 4-cylinder, but the 323 and 325s have plenty of power unless you are a hotrodder.
leenelson: So, what did you finally decide to get, and M3 or a 330Ci? BTW, I waited 9 months to order from the time I decided on a new car, to time it with my lease expiration. It was sheer hell.
vkwheels: I think the M3 has a different front end lower grille, fog lights, and ground effects on the sides, as well as the air ducts you mentioned. It also has special and bigger wheels, and the aforementioned badging. A guy here at work has one, and it sticks out big time. I'm working from memory, here, but I'm pretty sure this is correct.
http://www.bimmerfest.com/news-story.php?news_id=19
2003 Model Year Ordering Guide:
http://www.bimmerfest.com/news-story.php?news_id=22
Both are compliments of Bimmerfest.com
http://www.bimmerfest.com/
To maximize your savings, fly during off-peak (less favorable weather). Eeven if you flew into Munich dropped the car off at E.H.Harms and flew back. You would say some money but it would only be a few hundred. Therefore, just make a vacation of it. Going to Disney World would cost you more.
On M3, the real unduplicable difference is the exhaust pipes and the power bulge on the hood. Everything else on the exterior can be duplicated. The engine is different, the upholstery, six-speed tranny and steering wheel. You can buy the badging, fenders, wheels, mirrors, spoiler and ground effects to change a Ci to a M3 poseur.The same visual effect can be done to a 5er to create the M5 look. With the 540, you might even get the dual exhaust (now sure about that). The M5 might actually be easier to front.
confused current customer,
DL
I was thinking that dealers have their own different ways to get more money from their customers.
For floor mats, their charging $150 so I take it off from my order. Anyway, we normally put a rubber mat on top of the floor mat so it seems that those mats have no use at all.
Take the floor mats and prep fee alone (plus they are putting a "sealer" on my paint as their standard prep procedure), and we got about the same deal. And, I'll bet your deal took alot more stress and effort to get.
It costs alot to join this club, and they are going to get you one way or another. So,...I say, sit back and try to enjoy it.
it's not just US companies with accounting and cashflow problems.
-Colin
http://www.bimmerfest.com/news-story.php?news_id=7
Actually, the deal didn't took that long. I just got off from my lunch break and by 1:00 pm, we made the deal. It was pretty much prearranged as I had told the car salesman (through email) that another dealer is offering me $1,800 above invoice and he responded that if I could come over he'll give me a better deal. So, as soon as as we started our negotiation, he was offering me $1,600 above invoice. He mentioned that the floor mats are included in the invoice price, so I told him to take it off from invoice and offered him $1,500 above invoice. 3 or 4 times he went to his manager and finally he agreed with $1,500 but he told me that he forgot to include Prep fee of $100. Though not convinced, I signed the order but told him that I'm going to inquire other buyers if they had paid Prep fee. And the rest is history...
For the life of me, I can't figure out BMW's advantage to manufacturing the 3-series in S. Africa, unless the market down there is bigger than I'd expect or the cost savings are overly compelling.
I know this was bantered about some time ago and anyone's insight would be appreciated.
Thanks
Euro-land has been hit with their corporate issues. Huge problems with Vivendi (France) and some other european companies. Heck, Fiat continues its implosive meltdown; now reportedly trying to force GM to buy rest of its declining stock.
As some have said, don't worry about the $100, just enjoy your car. I agree to an extent. In the grand scheme of things $100 is a rounding error but I just don't like dealers adding costs after a good-faith negotiation has concluded. In the end, I think they play around with some of these prep costs/doc fees/window etching to get to the number they want.
Anyway, enjoy the wait for your new car. I find the waiting to be consuming but exciting as well.
The savings for ED seems to be about $2000 on the fully loaded 330 coupe. It will cost me about $650 for two to fly to Germany and about $450 in lodging, still about $900 savings to do ED, plus a weekend in the Germany, in the dead of winter.
What would you do? Fly over for the weekend and save $900, but take 2 extra months to get your new car (that I am just DIEING TO GET), or just place the order here this weekend, and get on HERE in November?
Ugh. And it seems like with ED there are more headaches with possibities for something to go wrong, additional scratches, addtional dealer prep at both ends, etc. Please help.
Thanks
Part of me would love to do ED in the future. I'm hampered by the fact that I generally lease cars. If you lease an ED car, you basically pay for two months of the car while it is on the boat. I've also read that there are negative insurance implications with leasing an ED car.
Also: I am not all that enamored with the thought of driving my new (very expensive) BMW on unfamiliar European roads. It might be thrilling, but only if you go fast and drive hard,...which you shouldn't do prior to break-in? I've driven in Europe (England, Ireland, Italy, Switz) and find it to be no picnic. Then again, I'd probably have the only automatic transmission 325i on the road, so nobody would want to steal it!
When it comes to European travel, I think I personally will lean toward a well insured rental or a train.
Does anyone know if Audi or MB are increasing their prices for 2003?
Few more quick questions on options:
Getting the 330 Coupe, orient blue, Natural Brown, Premium, Step, Navi, Xenon.
What are your opinions on the Sport Package (Coupes come with Sport Suspension, STD., so it is just the seats and the wheels) Are the seats and wheels worth the $600?
What about the upgraded wheels, the 18" M Alloy wheels with upgraded tires? Can anyone tell me what these are, and what benefit I would gain from them? Are they worth the extra $900?
Run Flat tires? Any thoughts?
What about the Park Distance Control? I would love it, if it were on the front...but on the rear, I have never hit anything from behind (knock on wood), I go too far forward, everyday, but never backed into anything. What is your opinion of the park distance control and the extra $350?
I truly appreciate your help. I decided not to do the ED so I can get the car in October, here. I plan to try to order the 2003 and am shooting for a price of $1500 - $1800 over invoice, or 5% over invoice (~$2000) at most. I have already talked to a couple of dealers, one says 5% over invoice is no problem with them, the others say, "yes we are competitive, but we don't talk about prices over invoice, we look more at a dollar figure off the MSRP, let's talk tomorrow."
Any thoughts tonight before I go to help me wheel and deal or get the most for my meager bucks will certainly be appreciated. This forum is outstanding thanks to all of you.
BMW has healthy competition in USA. If not from Lincoln (LS, Navigator) and Cadillac (CTS, Escalade), then Lexus (IS300, GS300/400, LS430), Infiniti (G35 & Q45), and Acura (3.2TL & CL Type Ss), then also from Mercedes (C-, E-, CLK-, M- and S-classes), Audi (A4, A6, A8), Volvo (S40, S60, S80, V70), Jaguar (X-type, S-type, XJR), Saab (9-3, 9-5), and VW (Passat W8, Phaeton).
As for competition.... hmm, maybe I should be checking out a Caddy when I look to replace my Bimmer? Or maybe I could offer to you a Acura for your 5-series! ;-)
I love the sport seats and the M wheels. To me, they were worth it. The M wheels look awesome and are pretty easy to clean. We took a quick 4-day trip from South Jersey to Bar Harbor, Maine last weekend. We did a straight shot back home ... 10 hours, including 2 half-hour breaks. I didn't get any discomfort until the last 20 minutes or so. Granted, the legs were buttery when I did get out of the car, but what can you expect?
As for the 18" wheels, there's a poster around here who got them so you'll have to find him. I don't remember the name though.
Personally, I don't care about the PDC. Take the half hour to learn where your bumper is and pay attention when you back up. That should cover any of the normal situations you run into.
Off topic, but I'd like to rave about Acadia National Park. What a gorgeous place! Considering how many people are there, the trails are still pretty quiet. We're definitely going to make a return visit. Plus I'd like to give myself a self-serving pat on the back for cycling up Cadillac Mt. after riding the Park loop Rd. 7 mph going up, 42 mph coming down and the same stupid grin I get when driving my baby.
Glenn
They shipped the same day and I had UPS tracking numbers that night. These guys were great to deal with. Total damage came to just under $1,100.00. If you believe the published dyno numbers that $1,100.00 bought about 10-15 hp and roughly the same torque figures. If you ask me based on my highly scientific butt dyno, I would say that is close. This equates to about $88.00 per hp or ft. lb. of torque. Not a bad deal if you compare the price of a similarly equipped 325 to 330 and divide back the difference in power. This had nothing to do with my rationale but it is an interesting exercise.
Anyway, I can definitely feel the difference. Throttle response is quicker and it pulls stronger particularly at mid to higher revs. This is not a revolutionary change but it is noticeable. Having had the full Dinan triad upgrade on my previous Z3, I knew not to expect major changes.
The audible changes are also noticeable. The exhaust adds a nice throaty burble and the intake adds some bass when it is up in rpm's. The sound is not obnoxious or droning at all. I specifically went with the AA exhaust because it was rated with the highest HP and did not sound like an Accord with a tin can attached to the tail pipe. It is just enough to give the engine sound the balls it deserves.
Sorry for the long rant. More details to come after the honeymoon phase wears off.
Also I will post details late next week after my appointment to have the sticky pedal issue fixed.
"Drive what you love and love what you drive"
my 02c
DL
DL
Take the Ultimate Test Drive and you'll quickly notice the differences in exhaust sounds. I, too, was surprised at how aggressive the Z3 3.0 sounded. As also for the Z3 2.5. But then again my recent Ultimate Test Drive was first and only time I've driven BMW roadsters. But these two sounded a lot more aggressive than the 330i convertible I also drove with the top down. And the two sounded far more aggressive than any of the coupes or sedans I drove.
Was noticeable. But also sounded very, very appropriate. If I had a roadster, I'd want a more aggressive sound.
What are your opinions on the Sport Package (Coupes come with Sport Suspension, STD., so it is just the seats and the wheels) Are the seats and wheels worth the $600?
Yes! I like the seats and love the extra grip of the tires. Sit in the different seats and see what you butt tells you.
What about the upgraded wheels, the 18" M Alloy wheels with upgraded tires? Can anyone tell me what these are, and what benefit I would gain from them? Are they worth the extra $900?
Hard to say. Perhaps this is an option if you don't like the sport seats.
Run Flat tires? Any thoughts?
Getting run flat tires kind of negates getting improved tires and wheels, doesn't it? I've never had a flat where I had to change it on the road in 20+ years of driving, but I think I would notice the performance disadvantage of run flats every time I drove.
What about the Park Distance Control?
I do have trouble "seeing" the corners of my car. I think I'm pretty close in back, then I see I'm 3 feet away when I get out. I would use it, but it's not that big of a deal for $350.
-murray
-Colin
Ordered the 2003 330Ci, Orient Blue, Natural Brown, SP, PP, Navi, PD, Automatic.
Went in fully armed with pricing information, and the 2003 price lists so there would be no confusion. Got a great deal...5% over invoice, plus they threw in the floormats for free. They, of course, mumbled and grumbled, saying they were not making any money and really only sell the new year models at full list price. I just said that I have flat-price offers from 2 other dealers in town. Meet it, or beat it, or I walk. They came back about $175 over the other price, so I said, if you throw in the floor mats, great.
One other advantage was that they had a September allocation available for October delivery. The other dealer had used all the Sept spots and only had an October build, for November delivery available. So, I factored in the extra month of pleasure in the cost difference.
I think I got a helluva deal, do you agree? Can't wait to join the ranks of you great people out there, lov'n your 3s. Damn those 330 coupes are HOT.
This will be only a small improvement over your Taurus. ;-)
-Colin
I'd like to know if the 323i will be a liability in the snow, on ice and in the rain, as I live in the southern part of New England. The car touts a Traction Control System, Automatic Stability Control and all-weather tires, but I've had copious amounts of people warn me about the safety risk. Will this car be fish tailing? Is it indeed a risk?
Please, be brutally honest.
At the risk of sounding naive, what does the "A" and the "PP" stand for in "CPO '00 323iA PP"?
I'm curious. What are your thoughts r.e. the Certified Warranty. Have you gone that far yet in your ownership? I'm concerned about the cost for wear and tear items. The idea of getting new rotors, for example, which are always expensive, concerns me. I, admittedly, have to do a little more research as to what's covered and not covered.