BMW 3-Series 2005 and earlier

bmw323is

I have the Sand leather interior and it looks like new after almost 4 years of ownership. I am however, pretty anal about keeping it clean. I use a cleaner/conditioner on the leather every 2-3 months. I know you are considering leatherette, but you can still clean it. I too have black mats - they look great in this car. The only problem is on the door sill. It does get marked up from black soled shoes. If your Michigan winters are of concern, get some rubber mats for winter.

brave1heart

Our NAFTA partners are our biggest trading partners, accounting for 37 % of all U.S. exports and 30 % of all U.S. imports. The European Union (EU) is the second largest trading partner, accounting for 22 % of U.S. exports and 19 % of U.S. imports. Notwithstanding the media rhetoric, Japan and China account for only 11 % and 9 %, respectively, of all U.S. imports, while buying only 8 % and 2.6 %, respectively, of all U.S. exports. The only sizable trading partner that pegs their currency to the U.S. dollar is China. Those of us who can't afford to pay cash for their houses and shop regularly at WalMart live in a skewed reality dominated by Chinese-made goods )

kennynmd

is what I have in my steel blue 325ci. I can't say if it is easy or hard to keep clean since it only has 2k miles on it since I bought it new in August of last year. I only drive it about once or twice a week. I have the tan mats but also ended up buying the rubber all weather tan mats from BMW. They look really good and fit perfect.

passaton

This may not apply to someone who wants leatherette or a steel blue exterior. However, if you like the sand interior but are worried about the light colored carpet and trim, you should check out the Nat Brown Leather interior. The seat color is only slightly darker than the sand, but the carpet, console, lower door panels and lower dash trim are all black. Also the dash trim butting up against the windshield is also black(the same color as all upper dashboards). On the sand interior there is a 2 inch wide sand color trim piece on the black dash that runs along the winshield that is a real aesthetic faux pas in my opinion. Anyway, if you like brown seats but feel black carpet and mats are more practical, the Nat Brown may be for you. Most people don't know about the subtle differences because the dealers have so few with this interior. The black and brown combo w/ the Prem package myrtle wood is a very uptown look. And very few people have it.

ponytrekker

If you have kids get black.

gordonwd

I want to get a 325i partly because I have not had a RWD car for almost 25 years. Besides, as I was saying a few days ago, we haven't had any bad winter weather for 2-3 years where I thought that AWD was a big advantage. Well, yesterday I left work to find 8" of fresh snow on my A4, with drifts halfway to my knees as I brushed it off before driving home over seriously messed-up roads. And this morning it wasn't much better since salt doesn't do much at 4F!

Anyway, I was suddenly really glad to have my Quattro drivetrain, especially after hearing of a friend's problems getting in here in his Cadillac CTS. I'm still favoring the 325i over the xi, but will probably get a set of snows from Tirerack next year *before* I decide that I really need them!

ksoman

though i agree, i disagree. my almost 5 year daughter rides in my wife's car's sand leather interior and does leave marks around... but hey if you are spending a packet on your car, it doesnt cost more than a few hundred to keep it clean. i personally detail my wife's car every 2nd or 3rd week... inside and out and the sand looks wonderful on the mystic blue car, specially with the top down...

ksso

erickpl

I have the xi (with the natural brown interior and wood trim). You can see it at:

http://community.webshots.com/user/skimblz_

As for the snow, my xi did well with it. But when you factor in hills, it gets tougher. I love my xi, but with the new xDrive, I'd be interested to see how it compares performance-wise and if they'd filter it down to the 3 series (not including the x3 which already has it).

-Paul

kyfdx

That natural brown is very nice looking.. I agree with you ksoman.. You really need a lighter interior with the convertible.. black will just not do.. even on a silver or white car, it just doesn't seem right on the convertible.

regards,
kyfdx

studboy

Looking to buy a used 325I, 2000 or newer. What year did the steering stink? All responses are greatly appreciated.

kyfdx

But the dealer would do the retro-fit for free under warranty.

regards,
kyfdx

kyfdx

'03 has the 50K maintenance included.. 36K on the earlier ones.. You can buy extended maintenance if it hasn't run out already (it will have run out on '00 and many '01).

shipo

In 1999 & 2000 BMW sold the 323i and the 328i, they both had the original heavy steering. In 2001, both the 325i and the 330i had two or three incarnations of steering (light, medium and retrofit/heavy). Starting in 2002, BMW returned the steering to a similar feel to the pre-2001 models.

Best Regards,
Shipo

studboy

I may or may not buy one, but would like too. Married with two little ones, and the Camry is 'boring'! I can afford it without depriving the 'fam of Disney and the like, so why not? 30K is about the most I would like to spend. I like to buy new and take care of stuff, but nothing wrong with a clean used BMW. Also, what is the advantage of buying CPO? I would think it would be safe to buy direct from an owner on a newer one, say 2002 'til now. Also, as mentioned above, the 2003 and up have 50K maintenance included and 2002 and older have 36K. How much older? And what do you get? I plan on doing oil changes and brakes on my own, but may as well let them do the oil if it is inlcuded. Will check out '02's and '03's since you explained the steering thing. Also, is climate control standard on '03's or was it just '04's? I plan on scrolling back about 1,000's post or so to 'bone up' on 3 Series talk!!

finewine

what special or approved or off the shelf from Target do you folks recommend for keeping car clean inside and out
Anything special for convertibles
thanks

brave1heart

"I'm still favoring the 325i over the xi, but will probably get a set of snows from Tirerack next year *before* I decide that I really need them!" ==> I agree!! I'd get the 325i SP with a spare set of snow tires over the 325xi. The Quattro is a far superior system than the xi and BMWs have traditionally been known for their RWD capabilities. Our A4 Q can plow through anything and it offers great stability but when it comes to stopping in snow, my 325i with snow tires wins hands-down over the A4's all-seasons.

mitchs3

I have noticed for two years now that my gas mileage falls about 1-1.5 MPG during the cold months here in Maryland. It recovers in spring. Is this do to reformulated fuels used in the Mid-Atlantic states during certain months or that the car in less efficient in the cold? I dont warm up engine as I have thought just to drive conservatively till temp guage at least 1/3 way up. I remember from high school physics that using the equation for Carnot efficiency an engine should be more efficient in cold weather as the efficiency is based upon the difference of exhaust temperature and ambient temperature. Is this truly the case or just an oversimplification? Any comments?

shipo

I cannot offer you any scientific confirmation of your suspicions, however, I can offer a couple of anecdotal ones.

First, I used to live in a state where the reformulated fuels were eliminated part of the way through a winter, and I immediately noticed an improvement in my mileage.

Second, during the hue and cry regarding the aforementioned change back to regular fuels, one of the arguments in favor of the change was fuel economy.

Finally, I have noticed a rather dramatic difference between the time the old 1967 Cessna 172 that I used to rent could stay in the air winter vs. summer. In the summer, it was sometimes all one could do just to coax the old can into the air, and on a good day, a refueling stop was necessary in just under four hours. In the winter, it seemed like all it would take to get it into the air was a couple hundred feet of runway, and closer to five hours was achievable before stopping for fuel (and to pee). Why is this important? My FBO assured me that AvGas was of the same formulation throughout the year.

Hope this helps.

Best Regards,
Shipo

riez

Don't forget that gasolines are blended and different blends are used in summer versus winter. There are different fuel and fuel line issues associated with hot summer temperatures versus cold winter temperatures.

And there are also traction loss issues and drag issues in winter. When it snows or is icy, your tires are now no longer travelling on dry pavement. Rolling resistance increases in snow.

And engines don't tend to operate as efficiently in cold weathers. Takes longer to warm up and get in optimum efficiency. Oils and other fluids are more sluggish so there is more resistance in the engine (and more wear!). Plus people often do a winter warm up. Leave your car running for 3-5 minutes to warm it up (as my wife does) and your fuel mileage plummets. That sitting time is at 0 mpg!

I'm sure some engineering and physicist types could give us a dissertation on why fuel economy declines in winter.

ksoman

there are excellent forums on edmunds that will confuse you err, educate you on how to keep your car clean. since you mentioned a cabrio and my wife has one, i've to say it takes extra attention since there are seals that you need to clean by opening the top half way... generally i'm thinking you are in texas, you need to make sure you coat the necessary surfaces with a good finishing product like 303... email me if you want more details on what I use to keep my car clean.

ksso

ksoman

The reformulation of gasoline has nothing to do with the loss of mileage in winter. I wont quote everything they said as i have poooor memory, but here's a quick break down of the top two reasons...

1. many people dont check air pressure regularly in their tires, and winter temperatures that "vary" keep continously changing tire pressure, which tends to be on lower side in winter... and we all know lower tire pressure means a loss of mileage

2. lower burn of gasoline - or rather incomplete burn... this is a simple law of physics. this will be specially true if you have several short trips. the longer the engine takes to warm up, the more dramatic loss of mileage you will see.. so one of the reasons the milage drop is so big when you leave the car turned on in the garage to warm up.. the engine is actually taking longer to warm up in idle.

Some people would rather lose mileage than harm the engine by driving it cold... i'm not suggesting either option, just saying what is what.

it was 5 degrees outside with wind gusts of 30 mph as i walked from hoboken station to work today morning. lovely. wonder what the wind chill factor was. lovely lovely.

cheers
ksso

kdshapiro

According to oxybusters, the reformulated gas leaches into the soil and causes poorer mileage.

gordonwd

Anyone remembers cars with carburetors and that troublesome thing called a "choke"? It's main function was to richen the mixture, which is required to keep the engine running when it is cold. Fuel-injected engines don't have chokes, but the f.i. computer does the same thing when your engine is at cold temperatures: it richens the mixture, meaning that it dumps more gas into the intake. That's the main reason why gas mileage drops for everybody when the temps are consistently low.

kominsky

Just a couple of, seemingly obvious, questions (I don't know much about reformulated fuel ;-) )

1) Do you put winter tires on the car? Different tires could probably explain the change in MPG.

2) Do you keep up with tire air pressure? Pressure drops in colder temps and driving around with lower tire pressure could also explain the difference.

blueguydotcom

I dropped my 330i at the dealer for service and my cool sales guy hooked me up with a demo model X3 3.0 with six speed. I'll write a full review of it later this weekend.

Not a bad little truck. Not as nimble as my car and certainly a great deal slower but as far as SUVs go, it's almost livable.

ksoman

they might not be the smartest, but i bet those guys on npr-car talk can out run you in sprint, marathon or any other car information issue...

ksoman

the reason for increasing the fuel to rich mode is the same - lower burn of fuel at colder temperature. there are primarily two physical reasons in play here:

1. given a constant volume (cylinder volume at compression stroke), and given that its cold, the injected fuel/air gaseous mixture (its really a mixture of fine spray particulated liquid in air) has a lower volume than at a higher warmed engine temperature, hence the compression stroke does not achieve the same compressed volume

2. each fuel has a temperature range for ignition. even though inside a engine cylinder the combution is caused by a electronic discharge triggered by a spark plug, the actual explosion of the fuel air mixture is caused when the gas finds the appropriate temperature for the exothermic reaction to happen between the various chemicals present inside the cylinder. since in any cold environment, motility of gas or liquid is lower, the chance of a petroleum molecule finding an oxygen molecule is reduced at lower temperature. which means not all gas is burned off as it would inside a warmer engine. Just for that matter, you would have a rare day when your engine cyclinder has 100% burn...

anyway... just my 2 cents
ksso

ksoman

we would love to hear your impressions...

shipo

One of the first things folks learning to fly learn to do is to calculate density altitude. Why do we calculate density altitude? Simple, because the higher the density altitude, the lower the max power your engine will produce, and the more difficult it will be to get the plane off of the ground (forgetting for a moment that there is equally less air with which to lift said airplane off of the ground).

What produces high density altitude? Primarily physical altitude, air temperature, and humidity.

Fact, as the altitude rises, cylinder packing goes down (as anybody who has ever driven their car directly from San Francisco to Yosemite knows; when you get there, your car feels WAY down on power). Fact, as cylinder packing goes down, so too does its ability to produce power.

The flip side of all of this of course when you have a day like today, cold. I just calculated the density altitude here in my town, and for all intents and purposes, every internal combustion engine around here should be able to easily produce more power than is suggested in its specifications.

Right now, it is currently 9 degrees with a barometric pressure at 29.71 and a dew point of -9. Add that all together, and combine it with our town's altitude of 225 feet and you wind up with an adjusted altitude of 2,957 feet BELOW sea level!

What that means is that there is roughly 9% more oxygen per cubic whatever of air and that directly equates to a potential 9% boost on power output of your typical engine.

Relative to mileage, well, on a long trip it has been my experience that I have gotten better mileage in cold weather. That said, if I'm actually using that extra 9%, then of course I will surely expect my mileage to drop by 9% as well.

Disclaimer: I am not a physicist, and am offering this information to further this discussion. I believe the cold weather will allow engines to get better mileage, all else being equal, which of course, it never is.

Best Regards,
Shipo

ksoman

excellent points, but "all else being equal" isn't holding here.
at room temperature air is a gas, at room temperature, petroleum is a liquid. additionally rate of change of density due to either pressure or volume change for gas is different from a liquid. the colder the liquid, the viscosity will lead to low motility. for example, molten warm wax flows slowly, molten hot wax flows fast.. or for another example, olive oil in a cold pan is hard to spread around the base of the pan by just shaking the pan, do that in a hot pan and the oil will flow around far more easier... slower motility is a function of viscosity, which means surface tension is much higher. spray this viscous fluid into a fine mist inside a cylinder and the size of each droplet (even if microscopic) is going to be larger than the size of droplets sprayed at 100 degrees warmer or more. what that means is, that within the really short time of a stroke, lesser surface area is exposed to oxygen, smaller the combustion volume and smaller the following chain of combustion (within the same stroke, not every molecule of petrol is combusted at the same time, its a short chain).

I wish i could write more, but i've to go its getting late. if this discussion lives on, i'll play the forum later tonight...

cheers, have a good one
ksso

ksso

shipo

I understand that all fluids are viscous; however, some are more viscous than others. And, as yet, I am unconvinced that the viscosity difference of gasoline in the nominal 130 degree range that we routinely operate our vehicles is all that significant. Diesel, yes (and yet, even diesel engines seem to manage quite well with a very cold intake charge), gasoline, no. Please understand, I'm not saying that it's not significant, it's just that I am not yet convinced.

Best Regards,
Shipo

brave1heart

Well, physics was never my forte and I won't even think about arguing with the likes of Shipo on that subject. Installing a cold air intake improves fuel efficiency by a couple of MPG and I've read that this is because cold air is denser and it has better thermal efficiency. I doubt it is as simple as that - just my 2 cents...

finewine

like to tell me on the board what you use to keep the car inside and out clean.
tia

yama330

I recall a TV show last year where this was discussed by an expert. Fuel consumption is worse in the winter mainly during the warm up period because:
(I may have forgotten a few items)

 - Much richer mixture set by the computer when the engine is cold

 - Higher idle speed

 - More power train loss due to more viscous engine oil, transmission oil, and bearing grease

 - Heavy alternator drag due to battery recharging after outage during starting and various winter heating elements (rear window defrost, heating seats, mirrors,..), and heavy fan use

 - Higher rolling resistance due to snow, slush, low tire pressure, and slippage

 - Alcohol mixed in gas in cold areas has lower specific energy

 - Once warmed up, with proper tire pressure and a clear road, the efficiency may be higher.
 
I learned an interesting point: In very cold weather, it is more energetically efficient to plug in the block heater for a few hours than to start the engine cold. Plugging the block heater for 2 or 3 hours takes less than 5 cents worth of electricity (about 1 kWHr) and saves much more money in fuel cost than this. Unfortunately, I cannot remember the typical gas saving.

ksoman

you really killed the discussion. the first rule of any energetic forum is to not disclose the full truth and then append it with bad information, whatever little you release in each post... so people have something to hold on to and fight about and argue and try to one up on...
now you just killed it.

lol jk
ksso

rizzotreeman

hi erickpl - checked out your pics on your website - nice ride! quick question for you - i noticed you have XM installed, and i was thinking of doing the same (XM Commander FM modulated unit also installed in the ashtray for about $425). For an extra $100 i can also get it installed using the cd changer/aux input in the trunk (basically a direct connection instead of FM modulated). I'm not sure how your Alpine unit works, but any words of recommendation on either the method of installation (FM modulated vs. direct connection) or the price? Thanks so much in advance.

ksoman

dont go the FM modulator route !!!

memphis10

I have the 325i sport pkg and hence the P225/45R17 tires on all 4 wheels. I have about 7000 miles on them. Do you recommend rotating those tires?

shipo

Good news (from my perspective anyway)...

While I have not seen the article, apparently a publication called "Auto Express" (a weekly rag from the UK) published an announcement in their current issue (page 19) that states that Chris Bangle will be leaving BMW this fall following the debut of the 1-Series. From my perspective this news comes rather too late for the 5-Series, however, maybe it means salvation for the new 3-Series.

Can anyone gain access to this publication and confirm?

Best Regards,
Shipo

kdshapiro

That has been debated as whether it's the truth or not. Only time will tell.

shipo

...I know that you are a fan of the Bangle cars, unfortunately I do not share your sentiment regarding the E60 5-Series and the E65 7-Series. The E63 6-Series however is another matter entirely.

Best Regards,
Shipo

kdshapiro

"The E63 6-Series however is another matter entirely"

Bring it on!!

kyfdx

That is an excellent question. I just bought an '03 325i sport last month. The car had 8000 miles on it, and I just put on winter tires on the stock wheels. I will have the same dilemma in the spring. Do I rotate the tires front to back, or just put them back on the same way? I even had them mark the tires, so when I put them back on in the spring, I can make the decision then.
BMW recommends that you don't rotate the tires, and I think that is to lower the incidence of balance and vibration problems. Of course, BMW doesn't have to pay for the increased tire wear you get by not rotating. My local tire shop guy said he recommended rotation. He also noted that the right rear tire had significantly more wear at 8K miles than the other ones, which I think is to be expected.
So... I don't have your answer, but since I will have the winter tires on for about two more months, I will have all that time to think about it. Do you have the Turanza ER30 on yours? If you rotate, report back and let us know how it goes. My gut feeling says rotate them, as the rears look like they'll only get about 2/3 the life of the front ones.

regards,
kyfdx

kdshapiro

"I can make the decision then. BMW recommends that you don't rotate the tires,"

The reason they don't recommend it, is the rims are fit to the individual wheel accoring to an article in Bimmer. However, if you keep the rims on the same wheel and take the tires off the rims, I believe that type of rotation will be fine, if not expensive.

kyfdx

Do you mean keep the wheel (minus the tire) at the same position on the car? Meaning the wheel fits to the axle hub? Not sure what you mean by rim and wheel. The wheels we are talking about are one-piece. Wheel = Rim .

regards,
kyfdx

ksoman

mark the wheels and tires seperately have the tires remounted on different wheels... if i were even the cheapest labor in town, i'd say, sorry, find another tire shop...
ugh, i'd rather have the tire wear, less headache and maybe similar cost... unless of course we figure out a way of off-shoring this expense

ksso

kyfdx

I believe they recommend not rotating because the tires wear differently at each corner of the car, and like even tires on a Chevy Malibu, take a little while to wear down evenly after rotating. Being low profile, sport tires, and with BMW's road feel, I'm guessing the "wear-in" time might even be longer. I don't think it has anything to do with the alloy wheel.

regards,
kyfdx

kdshapiro

Sorry if the wording was confusing. ksso is correct. The wheel=rim stays with the axles and only the tire moves. The reason cited in the Bimmer article is the sensitivity of the suspension to imperfections in the rim. Therefore the rim is carefully selected for the axle. Moving just the tire, provided it's properly balanced, should not result in the vibration sometimes cited after a rotation. (IMHO of course)

kyfdx

I don't think that is right. IMHO..LOL. I just had winter tires put on, and while I would guess.. from having watched him work before, that my tire guy changed one wheel/tire combo at a time... It is possible that he pulled all four from the car at once, and even though my summer tires are marked by position, it is entirely possible that my wheels have been moved to different positions, as I wasn't there to see it this time. NOW..how many permutations of wheel/tire positions can I have? Will my car ever be right again? Since my wife is the principal driver, would she ever notice it anyway?

I think this clinches it. I'm rotating the tires for sure now.

regards,
kyfdx

memphis10

I check with my BMW dealer and he recommends rotating the tires. He says that the tire rotation at the center also includes electronic balancing to reduce vibration. I am not sure if he changes the rim or the tires. By the way kyfdx, I have the Pirelli P6000 which are basically crappy tires.