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Comments
I bargained the dealer down on the BMW form 33,900. Should I take the 30k and run or push for more? Or... take the Acura which by all accounts is the best bang for your dollar? One thing is for sure it doen't handle like a BMW. I could use the advice. Thanks.
Each one has there own pro's and con's and it is a much harder decision for me than with previous
vehicles.
On Friday last I fell in love with the MB exterior and interior but have yet to drive it. Actually, I haven't driven either yet.
Yesterday though the sales rep. from BMW called in with a purchase figure of $33,4K :325xi, premium pkg., orient blue with sand leatherette.
From all indications in Edmunds forum both C-class MB are not being sold less that MSRP. The C240 I opted for the C2, Capri w/Java leatherette.
Desperately would appreciate input from anyone in this forum that may have or has to make the same decisions? Actually, any good input!!
how did you work out that deal about picking up a car in Munich for BMW?
Never owned a RWD vehicle before.
Curious if I really need the all wheel drive.
I live in New England.
I'm trying to keep costs down and the difference between a 325i/325ix is significant to me.
Comments/Experiences appreciated.
Then I talked to a BMW dealer, I've got three dealers willing to discount $2,900 off MSRP (1,200 over invoice) on a xi wagon with PP, SP, CWP and other goodies. The thing is, even with AWD option, 325 WAGON still beats C240 SEDAN by a half second 0-60 dash. And no matter what they say, the bimmer still have an edge in terms of handling.
Hope this helps.
I flew down to Atlanta's airport and the Athen's driver was standing in the gate holding up a BMW sign as I walked off the airplane. He had driven out in a 318Ti from the used car lot to pick me up. Very nice guy, too. He apparently has delivered cars all over the SouthEast for customers. I gave him a tip when we got to the dealership and, judging by his reaction, it sounds like I was the first one to ever do that.
Curt had my car all ready and sitting up front when I arrived. We did the feature review (even though I knew more about it than him from all my time on the message boards), took a short test drive, and finished up all the paperwork. I talked him out of a free BMW coffee mug and mouse pad and was out the door in no more than 60 or 70 minutes. Very nicely handled.
Why not get AWD as insurance? Well, AWD is an option the increases costs, adds complexity, decreases reliability, adds weight, reduces gas mileage, reduces acceleration, and detracts from handling. (On more powerful cars, you can make the case that it is a nice feature even on dry pavement, but the 325 doesn't make enough power for this to be much of a consideration.)
So if you need AWD, then the C240 isn't in the hunt. It would be between the Audi A4 and the 325xi, and frankly, I'd probably go with the A4, although both are good.
If you don't need AWD, then the C240 is back in the running, but if RWD is acceptable to you, then I'd be comparing the 325i vs. a C240. I'd go with the 325 because I could get it with a stick, but if you're going with an auto, then either would be great choices - choose based on which you like in a test drive.
The C240 is a new design and is subject to first-model-year glitches. If you rate reliability as paramount, I'd stay away from it a year. But both are fine cars.
- Mark
I live in NJ and heavy snow/winters is really not an enormous issue, but I thought it would be an added safety option. Also, I was under the perception from different forums as well as the dealer that there was no negative aspects but as you state "adds complexity, decreases reliability, adds weight, reduces gas mileage, reduces acceleration, and detracts from handling" that is not correct.
My current "OLD" vehicle is rear wheel drive and I have driven it in bad snow weather. It was not as bad as others state it would be. It seemed to be as complicated to maneuver as FWD vehicles.
I have lost interest in a few vehicles because they do not have stick shift as an option. The C240 is the only MB that comes in stick shift and it is the only reason it keeps my interest- other than the look.
Is the c-class an entirely new line or is it just the physical appearance?
on a fairly loaded 330i, msrp of 40,285, athens bmw is offering 38,690, which is 2500 over invoice. i will offer 1800 over and settle for 2000 over. i will let you know how it goes.
thanks again.
I live in the hills of northern CT and I just bought an '01 325i (6 days old). Not an X car, but I will be buying agressive snow tires that hopefully do not sacrifice everything in the way of dry road performance handling. I haven't been in a BMW since 1984 or so, but they were rear wheel drive then and it was still northern CT. Not too much to say in the way of problems. Good luck with your new car decisions. Michael Austin
We paid $1950 over. No other dealer fees, either.
mfeldman
You don't want the rear airbags with young children. At least not until they're in their teens. Don't recall if it's early teens or late teens.
I drove a C240 auto and I thought the power was a bit muted getting through the automatic, but I loved the way the car drove and the feel of the car from the driver's seat. As many of the magazine tests have stated, this is the first Mercedes I have ever driven that really had a "fun" feeling to it. I C240 six-speed with the sport package would be a very neat car.
I'm going with the 325 mainly due to the availability of a wagon, and because I really want to avoid the 1st year of a new Mercedes model. I can't think of a 1st year new design Mercedes that hasn't been plagued with lots of problems.
- Mark
Finally, the stability control is fun to try out. I did this on the wide road, making sudden steering inputs as though I'm avoiding something in my lane, but not much over 30-35 mph(I didn't want to slide into the curb). The DSC (stability control) did wonders for "plowing" or when you turn the wheel sharply and you keep going straight because it's slippery. The light on the dash would flash and you'd hear the chunking of the brakes and it would regain control and go where you pointed it. If you were aggressive enough to induce fish tail the vehicle, the stability control didn't seem to be as capable to do much about it. The AWD did better in these maneuvers overall, but probably mostly because of the snow tires except the susceptibility to fishtail which was noticeable in the RWD.
Bottom line--I think the RWD does fine, but expect very slow accelleration on slippery surfaces with lots of traction control intervention. The RWD seems more susceptible to fish-tailing than the AWD and the stability control doesn't seem quite as capable of preventing fish-tailing, and it certainly seems to be unable to control it very well once it starts. The AWD was absolutely incredible starting from a standstill on slippery surfaces. Overall, I like the added security of the AWD, particularly here in North Dakota. You'll be able to go better, and will have more control (and less risk for losing control) in any situation in which you're using the throttle.
Hope that wasn't too much info!
And snow tires definitely help on all 4 wheels.
The fact that this C class(240-320)is in it's 1st year (which I was not aware of initally)made it obvious for me to go with the 325xi. I love the look of the C240 but, I'd perfer to have a vehicle that is both pretty to look at and proven true for a few years.
The one query I still have is if the all wheel drive will lower the value, increase mechanical difficulty, not conerned with the .5 decrease in acceleration will not kill me but, are there truly negative issue to a 325xi.
I agree with the dealer about the sports package -it would be worse in snow so I would not opt to change the xi for a sports package.
This saturay I will be in to test drive and hopefully sign the papers for a New "325 (xi), Orient blue/sand interior, 5spd manual, premium package (I have a friend who owns his own business - He offered to installs a 6-disc CD player and if I want a navagation system). Mark the sales person offered me the 325xi for $33,4K is that a good price or should I try for less??
Almost there - I hope!!
Was quoted $50.00 from the service dept.
I'd say if you are around half-way between invoice and MSRP, you're probably doing well. My experience is that you will have to shop more than one dealer to get the best price. Always try for more. I've bought my last two cars via fax and email and don't go onto the lot now except for the initial test drive.
Good luck,
- Mark
Several people who work in the industry have noted the following points:
1. Free scheduled maintenance during the warranty period has become a key feature that customers are looking for.
2. The more often the customer comes into the service dept during the warranty period, the more likely they are request warranty repairs for rattles, squeaks, alignment, wind noise, brake noise, and other minor issues. These are the profit killer items that constitute the majority of the warranty claims. If you can keep the customer out of the shop, they are much more likley to simply "live with" these issues.
Put these two things together, and you have a very powerful incentive to stretch routine maintenance out to the absolutely longest interval possible, even if it has some detrimental effects on long-term engine life. (Short-term engine life and performance is relatively unaffected - you could not change the oil at all in 50K and the engine would probably be OK.)
Mercedes and BMW are leading the way with these longer service intervals. They are ones that offer free maintenance. I also own a Lexus which does not offer free maintenance, and guess what? Their service intervals are 7.5K (or 5K under severe service).
If I was leasing or planning on trading cars every few years, I'd just follow what BMW says and let the person who owns the car at 100K miles worry about it. But if I planned on keeping the car for a long period, I'd at least halve the BMW recommendation. Changing oil at 5-7.5K sounds about right.
Finally, given how cheap oil is, you can view it as very inexpensive insurance. Spending an extra $30 every year hardly seems significant in the overall cost of car ownership.
- Mark
The ding is probably the temperature alert which is activated whenever the outside air temp drops below 37°F/2°C. It's warning you to be alert to slippery conditions.
Your car is an E36 but it's performance should be similar. On the E46 the engine's computer adjusts timing, etc. to compensate for the lower octane fuel so running regular won't hurt anything other than your performance. A couple of folks have done some comparisions and they found that their fuel economy dropped significantly, due to the de-tuning done by the computer, and when you run the numbers it turned out to actually be MORE expensive to drive with low-octane gasoline because your burning so much more of it!
markjenn
There's nothing stopping anyone from changing their oil as frequently as they want. It sure won't hurt anything. I'm not sure where you're getting $30 oil changes, though, unless you're doing the work yourself. Dealers would probably charge $60-$80 for a synthetic oil change. Indapendants would be less but I don't have a BMW mechanic on my side of town so I'd be looking about about 40 minutes each way to get to one.
That said, a number of people have run to various milages up to 15k and set out oil samples for testing. In all the cases that I've heard of the results come back that the oil was still in good shape and clean.
One difference between the BMW engine and other engines is how they're built. The engines simply aren't shedding metal during the break in period as you would expect with other engines. That could also play a part in the BMW/MB longer intervals.
beamer6
Go to www.bimmer.org and search the archives. There might also be some info in the FAQ. There have been some extensive stereo upgrades documented on the web. Too invasive for me but interesting reading none the less.
I disagree that there is anything inherently better about a BMW engine that makes it able to go longer without an oil change. I'd match a Honda/Acura or Lexus/Toyota engine against any BMW or Mercedes in terms of engine precision and the potential for long engine life. These mfgs continue to recommend 7.5K engine oil changes, and shorter for "severe service". Now, I will admit that BMW often recommends synthetic oil which certainly is better able to stay in a crankcase for these long periods. But I'll also note that MB does NOT typically put synthetic in their mainstream cars and they still have these very long intervals. So I will continue to argue that these long intervals are a mfg *judgment* about what is the appropriate tradeoff between service costs and engine life. And that this judgement is made by BMW with their corporate interests in mind, not owners. As such, I think most owners planning on keeping their cars beyond 50K would be very well served to use their own judgement and exercise more frequent oil changes.
"Shedding metal" is no factor in engine oil life - the filter catches this stuff. What is a factor is the life of the additive package designed to keep in suspension all the dirt, carbon, soot, gas additives, and other stuff that builds up in an engine. And how long the detergents in the oil keep cleaning. And how the phosphates, zincs, and other extreme pressure additives hold up. Finally, all oils suffer viscosity breakdown as they are sheared in service and it is not uncommon for a 10W-30 oil to test as a 5W-20 in as little as 3K miles.
Again, 15K intervals will get you through the warranty period without any serious issue.
- Mark
Thanks for your detailed post on the differences between the cars on the ice. Can you offer any observations on the differences in handling between the AWD vs RWD on normal and dry roads?
steve
Here is the problem - the out the door price given was $34,850. The total price Marcus gave as out the door was $34,710 and I informed him that if he would sell it for $34,5K it was a deal. The price above was the best "he said" his boss would do on the price. The other option was to drop the color (orient blue) and it would save me $400. That would be beyond stupid!!
Needless to say I left the dealer telling him that 1K was not much of an impact on the monthly payments but, it was still more that I had expected.
Is $34,8K a good price for a BMW 325xi, premium pkg, orient blue/sand leatherette, 5spd. I want this vehicle but I do not want to pay more than necessary.
The breakdown of the 325XI: 25,940 invoice, 2,975 premium pkg., 405 paint, 570 destination. Total 29,890. Is this the amount I should add the 3.3%?
I understand that the savings indicated in this form are anywhere between 1k to 1900 above invoice. Calculating 29,890 plus the above savings of 1k to 1900, is that the amount I should be looking for?
miles. Is there anything i should look for, is this
a very bad idea or are they proven cars to put 250
thousand miles on any info would help!!
Price is 9200.
Good luck!
It only took me about 2-3 hours of faxing and talking on the phone. Comparing to my last Toyota purchase, all BMW dealers I talked to were truely "premium". If you know what I mean.
Orient Blue is probably a special order color, so the extra charge is justified.
I'd suggest you do a little more homework before you get into the dealer's cubicle. Figure out exactly the car you want using internet information. Price the dealer invoice and MSRP and write it down. Shoot for 3-5% above invoice and write it down. Negotiate with the dealer on this price with tax/license to be added in later.
- Mark
Prior to arriving at the dealer I had put together a spreadsheet of my own utilizing the information from Edmunds "New Car" pricing. The amount that was offered to me over the phone was only $200 more than from my final price - OTD.
First: Mark the sales rep. stated that he did not deal with OTD prices over the phone for whatever reason.
Second: He did not or choose not to work with invoice price. He stated that he was combining both invoce and MSPR with a supposable $800 deduction in my favor. I still am not able to locate the savings.
The price I calculated giving a 5% profit and 6% NJ tax was $33,4K. That was of course with out the license & Reg. charge. Oh, I have confirmed that the orient blue color is not a special order color. Even if I had offered them another $500 as profit making it $1900 would not be close.
The best price they were willing to give was $34,850.
This has been the second BMW dealer I have dealt with and I truly do not want to even look at this vehicle anymore.
Today, I actually went back to a VW dealership (it was closed) just to see if I still wanted a Passat - fully loaded - Nope!!
The truth is that I am currently tired of shopp-
ing for any and all vehicles.
What to do - maybe I should just wait a few months and then I would have a msg from a BMW (as VW did last week) sales rep. stating that they have an incentive program going on for C-class BMW. I can hope can't I!!
Also, any good dealer experiences to report in the Charlotte or RTP area of North Carolina ?
THANKS.
Always be ready to hang up (walk out). It only takes about 15-20 minutes to screen out a non-promising dealer.
1) Can a finance the car through BMW as normal if it's euro delivery? Can we euro deliver and lease the vehicle?
2) Do dealers make normal profit on a euro delivery car? I am thinking that if they do, they may be more willing to negotiate than usual, because they do not have to worry as much about preperation, stocking, etc.
dave
As far as the details I still don't know. I am also looking at leasing and based on my math it looks very favorable for ED (fully loaded 330Xi with 0 down, 36 mo. 36k mile for under $600 / month vs. $800 / month). Also it take about 3 months to set up ED but you get exactly the options you want.
I am looking at next spring for the pick up so I am just starting to talk to dealers. From this board it looks like I need to schedule a 325Xi test drive too.
-MESSAGE TO DEALERS- stop curb qualifying your customers. I walked into Tulley BMW in Nashua NH with my wife and the salesman didn't even have the courtesy to get out of his seat. When I started asking questions, he proceeded to walk out of the showroom.
A few points- I wasn't some 17 year old kid wasting time. I was 30. I spent $34,500 on my Audi A4, so I clearly could've afforded a BMW. I am almost ready to trade in. Guess where I won't be going to look at a new $45,000 5-series. I was in the car business for 7 years. I quickly learned that you cannot pre-judge a potential customer. Any customer.
dave
(Just kidding)
any experiences with this or other snow tires?
thanks!