BMW 3-Series 2005 and earlier

m4d_cow

can anyone tell me how much im supposed to spend for an M3? the dealer i called insisted on sticker price, claiming that they have only 3 units to sell while a lot more people want them
is it possible to get one below MSRP???

ive tried all other forums and none of them seems to have an answer

tenet1

if your dealer had so many interested buyers, he probably wouldn't call you to tell you that. My dealer had 2 M3's on his lot for over 2 months now, and I am sure i could have them for less than MSRP

Crevels

My wife just took delivery of a 2004 M3 coupe. We were able to negotiate $1200 off sticker without too much of a hassle. I don't know if regions of the country make a difference in supply, but this was in the Philadelphia region.

soverypoornow

The world's greatest wife bought me an M3 steering wheel for my 02 330i. Just had it installed today. Love it! I've always hated the original steering wheel. Just never really felt good. The M3 wheel, though, is awesome. Nice and fat with the 10 and 2 ridges. Soft, padded leather. M logo. Cool blue/red stitching. And I swear it added at least 20 hp.

Anyway, anyone considering this little, but somewhat expensive mod, that really doesn't add anything except a cool look and softer resting place for your hands, I highly recommend it. There's a DIY install at my330i.com. I chose to take it to the indy shop where we have my wife's 318ti serviced. It was about $100 to install. I gladly paid it not to have to do it in my 100 degree garage and fuss with the airbag and retorque the crucial steering bolt without a torque wrench. But mostly it was because it's too friggin hot outside. List is $450. We got it from Circle BMW for $350.

325irav4

I have an '01 325i step non-SP. The OEM Conti's are about gone (especially the rears) in 20k miles. They've been OK except for wear. I have Artic Alpins on alloys for winter so I'm most interested in treadlife, ride, noise, hydoplaning, performance and cost in that order. Reviews on the web are so variable - it seems like a real crap shoot. Any advice?

brave1heart

The Tirerack Surveys are a good starting point:

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/surveyresults/surveydisplay.jsp?typ- e=UHPAS

Based on your preference order, I'd recommend going with the best all-season tire you can find to get your preferred blend of treadlife, ride comfort, performance, etc. The Pilot Sport A/S will probably fit that profile best if you can afford it.

kyfdx

To me, treadlife and cost are pretty much the same thing, yet you list one first and the other last. I agree with brave1heart.. the Pilot Sport A/S would be the best. If that is too expensive, the ContiExtremeContact would be a good choice.. Treadlife not as good, but that is balanced out by a much lower cost.

regards,
kyfdx

pat

You can also Ask Connor at the Tire Rack. In case some of you don't know, this is a discussion on our Aftermarket & Accessories board. Connor is a Tire Rack rep who is extremely helpful. Check it out and let us know how it goes.

imadrone

Thanks to the vast amount of objective data which Edmunds provides, and to the subjective evaluations of this forum's members, my wife and I purchased a 2004 325iT (steel blue/gray, MT, SP, H-K, PS) via ED which we picked up in Munich last October 17. After 3 weeks, 8 countries, and 4,400 exquisite miles, we said good bye for the 8 week separation until picking it up from the dealer in early January. Since then, we have become even more bonded with the car, and had an out-of-pocket oil change at 5,100 miles, just to be sure. After a recent 3,150 mile trip from Northern California through the Canadian Rockies
(29.74 MPG average), Das Bimmer has 14,500 miles and will have its first dealer oil change in 2 weeks.
    We have found absolutely nothing to dislike about this beautifully crafted, precision automobile. After having toured the BMW factory in Dingolfing, we could not imagine having purchased anything else. So far, zero problems, 100% driving pleasure, better than anticipated fuel economy, awesome handling (we are surrounded by mountains and great mountain roads--hence the Sport Package and manual transmission). In short, unless the new 3-Series Sport Wagon is offered with a 3.0 liter, and the body remains un-Banglicized, we likely will keep the car for the 21 years that we have had our present 320i.
   I know the conventional wisdom is to trade the car while still in warranty to avoid the potential problems of complex and costly electronic problems, but this car is rapidly becoming as dearly loved a family member as our '83 Bimmer, '68 Benz 280 SE, and '68 Volvo 122S Wagon. The aesthetically graceful lines, consistently reliable performance, and well thought out interior, all please us immensely. And we believe that having NO problems thus far is a good predictor of future expectations. Unlike the new 7s and 5s, the 3-Series(and especially the wagon) exhibit a timeless good taste which will continue to offer visual pleasure in perpetuity. (I still gaze lovingly at the solid, pragmatically hip, functionally uncompromising lines of our beloved 37 year old Volvo).
    So, I'll be changing oil every 7,500, the trans/differential will get Redline at 30,000, the leather and paint will be well-maintained, and, should the new generation 3-Series Sport Wagon really prove to be a superior must-have, the next owner of our 325 will be fortunate to have a car prepped to be an ultra high miler.
    Good luck to all you other 3-Series owners and potential buyers. Hope you are as satisfied as we have been.

Richard

325irav4

Thanks for the responses. You're absolutely right about the treadlife/cost thing. I hadn't found the charts on tirerack - a great help. Since it's non-SP I'll be limited to 205/55R16 GT tires and it looks like the Bridgestone Turanza LS series might be a great choice.

kyfdx

Don't get too hung up on the designations on Tirerack.. Just put in your size and check all of the all-season categories and the H-rated and above speed ratings. It will bring up about 57 choices. About 2/3 might not be suitable for your driving needs, but you will still have lots of choices. While the Turanza LS is a nice tire (I have the LS-H on my Legend), there are quite a few tires that would better suit your 325i and at a lower cost.

regards,
kyfdx

blueguydotcom

So, at this point my engine's pretty lackluster under 4k rpm, my sunroof is rattling and my traction control light comes on constantly even though my tires have a good 75-80% of tread left and I've fiddled constantly with the tire pressure.

This will be my third trip to the dealer in 18k miles. Bummer. Glad it's a lease though...

alibajalajaula

Hey Blue, is yours gulping a quart of oil every 2600 miles or so? I've taken mine once for topping at dealer(free, included in maintenance; the first time I topped it, bought the oil, but never got refunded). I wonder if other people's do the same. Just asking.

jazevedo

Hey Blue, when you say lackluster under 4K, do you think it's a change from when you first got the car? Or do you think it's always been that way, but you are now getting "bored" with the low-end torque?

kdshapiro

Me too for the 30K service. Last dealer service 5/2003. Items requiring service: 0 (as in zip, zero, nada, nothing).

blueguydotcom

It's been getting worse and worse in regard to engine power.

As for the oil level, I've no idea what it is. The BMW dipstick, the one time I used it, was about as useful as a spoiler on a civic.

The constant DSC light is far more annoying as almost all corners now involve the car retarding power to the wheels.

jazevedo

ugh, you're killing me! I was already worried about going from my v8 to the inline 6 in terms of low-end torque. Oh well, hopefully they'll find something wrong with your car that they can fix...doesn't sound right that your engine would actually get worse during the first 18K miles!

I keep reading about the sunroof problems and other minor issues....pretty annoying that those issues happen so often considering the cost of these cars. Although this car is still on the top of my shopping list...

memphis10

I completed 15K miles on my 03 325i. I had an alignment problem when I picked up my car and the dealer fixed it at no cost. I have had 0 problems ever since. Car runs great. Low end torque is low but that has been there since day 1 and is typical of the 2.5 engine. The clutch has gotten better. No notchy shifter, no sticky pedal, no electrical issues.

kyfdx

Bought our 325i in December with 7600 miles on it.. It broke down the first day.. Camshaft postion sensor.. Not one hiccup since.. 15K service in late May and no problems. Coming from a 4-cylinder Accord, my wife has no "torque" issues. I, also, love the car.

regards,
kyfdx

P.S.: blueguy has really high standards for acceleration and handling.. Don't discount his opinion, since he has a ZHP, but keep in mind his expectations are likely to be higher than yours.

jazevedo

I've seen Blueguy complain in the past about "slow" acceleration in his zhp so I understand he is very critical. But I will be going from a V8 to this car so I am worried about the feel of acceleration. I know that the bmw will be a huge step up in terms of overall driving experience from my mustang, and I've driven the car so I know I will be happy with it. But the feel of acceleration was slightly lacking so I got worried when he said power got worse over time! I haven't seen any other complaints about this though so I won't let it affect my decision to buy....

kdshapiro

"P.S.: blueguy has really high standards for acceleration and handling.. Don't discount his opinion, since he has a ZHP, but keep in mind his expectations are likely to be higher than yours."

The question to ask yourself is: "What other 3.0L N/A in this class engine produces more torque, enough to make a measureable difference?" The answer is none. What blueguy is saying is any 3L n/a engine does not produce the torque that he wants. Not that the BMW 3L is underpowered, because all N/A 3L are underpowered according to him.

kyfdx

As they say.. there is no substitute for cubic inches.. especially, when it comes to torque. If you are coming from a 5 liter Mustang, it will be a big difference, but hopefully the total driving experience would make up for it.

kdshapiro

Yes, no substitute for cubic inches. Along the lines of cubic inches, noticed the new Pontiac GTO has a $1,000 gas guzzler tax. You want the torque you pay the price.

kyfdx

The gas guzzler tax is only on the automatic transmission... My co-worker bought the first one at the local dealer in January. He got the six-speed.

He says (talking to him this very moment), that he got 24 MPG on highway trip to Chicago (ten-hour round trip) and that he gets about 17 MPG on a normal tank of mixed driving. He says that you have to keep your foot out of it, though... He estimates you could get about 10 MPG, if you were always getting on it.

from the horse's mouth,
kyfdx

kdshapiro

I got it. In my slow little 3L I get 32+ on the highway and when I hammer the car I get 23+.

I'll bet it's gonna get old filling the tank with premium at 10mpg.

Yes you pay for those cubic inches and good old american muscle.

jazevedo

Funny, I considered the GTO (for a brief minute), not that it should be compared to a bmw! Yeah, that car is more what I was looking for when I bought the mustang, but I'm willing to move to a more refined, higher reving car with excellent handling.

As for the 3.0, yes the bmw has a great engine and that is why I've arrived here. I wish it was a 3.5, which is why I almost decided to buy the G35....but oh well, I love the bmw's overall package too much to settle for the G35. Not to put that car down, I just don't happen to like the looks but that's just my personal opinion.

kyfdx

I agree completely.. I think he was an idiot for buying it (looking over my shoulder), but he is a Pontiac afficionado and had an early '70s GTO. I personally think it looks like a Cavalier, but maybe thats just me. The only thing it has going for it is that engine. AND, he paid MSRP. Give me sophisticated handling any day over raw muscle (But, if its your dime, I'll take both).

regards,
kyfdx

wjc12345

Greetings all....

I bought a 2004 325i a few months ago (have the basic sound system) and was thinking about "iPODing" my BMW.

Has anyone done this yet? Seems like even the iPOD mini (which is available in the BMW as well) would turn my car into a nice little German jukebox...1000 songs. I know the installation costs about $150, but I think an hours worth of labor from BMW is necessary as well...

Just wondering if anyone has any experience with this, and how well the steering wheel control works with the system.

Thanks!

creakid1

"I agree completely.. I think he was an idiot for buying it (looking over my shoulder), but he is a Pontiac afficionado and had an early '70s GTO. I personally think it looks like a Cavalier..."

Which idiot would believe this car is a Pontiac. Was the 1.6 Le Man a Pontiac? It was an Opel Kadett built in Korea by Daewoo. & so was this "GTO" an Opel Omega (Cadillac Catera) coupe re-developed in Australia.

creakid1

"Yes, no substitute for cubic inches. Along the lines of cubic inches, noticed the new Pontiac GTO has a $1,000 gas guzzler tax. You want the torque you pay the price."

Actually, more cu. in. for more torque but similar hp means better fuel economy! A 328i has similar hp as 325i but more torque, so the engine revs less most of the time & thus less fuel consumed. The energy saved is mainly due to less total piston travel.

The old E30 2.7 eta 325, 325e & 325es w/ super-strong low end was to save more fuel than the 2.5 325i & 325is.

creakid1

"It's been getting worse and worse in regard to engine power."

Are you wearing the engine prematurely? Or was it just the the malfunctioning DSC trying to slow you down?

If you don't "warm up" the engine for a least 6 seconds from dry start, & even rev it high before the water-temp needle starts to move...

From the way you don't mind the TSX's weak low end, I can tell that you tend to keep the engine rpm near the red line...

I'd use Mobil-1 0W-40 for instant circulation during cold start, plus the DuraLube for maximum protection coating every oil change after the break-in period.

creakid1

"Since it's non-SP I'll be limited to 205/55R16 GT tires and it looks like the Bridgestone Turanza LS series might be a great choice."

The TireRack chart also convinced me to go for the Turanza LS-H a while ago on my '84 Jetta & '90 Protege. This tire was suppose to handle on par w/ the Michelin Energy MXV4+?

Well, I used to try the older Turanza's on my Protege "test mule". The old one during the early '90's hydroplaned badly. The next newer Turanza, the EL60, took care of this problem, but lost some steering feel. & this new LS-H is amazingly quiet & totally wiped out the road roar! But the steering feel was badly washed out, too! I don't think the E46, which only got a medium level of steering feel, can afford this loss of driving pleasure. No wonder the 4 OEM tires on the non-sport 325i are Conti, Michelin, Pirelli & Good Year.

Only the good-old E36, Protege & the manual-steering '84 Jetta can afford this level of steering-feel loss.

325irav4

Can you tell me which exact types of the 4 mentioned brands are OEM for the E46 325i non-SP? I put the rears on the front and the center band is bald. All other segments have some tread. I suppose I could replace the fronts and then buy 2 matching rears when the Contis in back wear out. The car came with Conti Touring Contact CH95 but they are worse on every attribute than the LS series on the Tire Rack charts so could they really be better in "steering feel"?

blueguydotcom

If you don't "warm up" the engine for a least 6 seconds from dry start, & even rev it high before the water-temp needle starts to move...

No, as soon as I start the car I redline it. Of course I keep the rpms under 3k until the car is warmed up. Often I'll start in the garage and let it run for 30 seconds or so before I even drive it.

From the way you don't mind the TSX's weak low end, I can tell that you tend to keep the engine rpm near the red line...

The Honda engine seems smoother, more refined and far more eager to spin. But it's also mated to a transmission lightyears beyond the notchy junk BMW uses. That always makes a difference.

creakid1

Gosh, w/o comparing, I can't be sure. But I used to use Conti Sport(?) Contact long time ago on my Protege, & the steering was not just great, but the handling was very predictable & tossable as well. Only the ride is the least soft of all tires I tried on it.

I think Goodyear usually suck, as I had quality problems w/ them. So I don't remember which model is used as OEM on the 325i. My personal experience w/ the Eagle GA(Also OEM tires on the Jetta III) on my '90 Protege LX gave me tons of early break-away oversteer fun in the most predictable manner, but I only used them in the back. 'cause it understeers excessively in the front.

The 325i non-SP comes w/ Pirelli P6 or Michelin Energy MXV4+.

Our 325i also came with Conti Touring Contact CH95, but I still can't tell was it the car or tires that only provide a so-so level of steering feel.

brave1heart

The latest Roundel (just got it in the mail today) mentions that the iPod is now available for $149 + ~1 hr labor. Let me know if you don't have access to the magazine and I will take a pic of the article and e-mail it to you.

glaker

I'm picking up a 330 with performance package this week. One dealer offered option is insurance for the 18" low profile tires. I really hadn't considered it, but then I got to thinking that, living in the northeast with its terrible pot hole covered roads (which I only travel on occasionally), maybe I ought to give it full consideration. I believe the tires retail for a little over $200 per tire and the M style wheels are easily $600 each. If you wreck just one of those, you've made your money back. Does anyone have any experience with this insurance and/or advice on how to proceed? I think the cost is a one time fee of $350 or so. Thanks.

brave1heart

Pass on it - it's a ripoff.

memphis10

It is a rip off. I have made a claim and it's been over 4 months and they haven't settled it. They seem to be "losing" the receipt everytime. I have faxed it to them 5 times already. All these third party insurance deals are scams.

Kirstie_H

A reporter is hoping to talk with a recent BMW buyer who traded in a VW, Toyota, Honda, Ford or Chevy when buying the BMW.
Please respond with your daytime contact info and a few words about your experience to jfallon@edmunds.com asap no later than Tuesday, August 3, 2004.
Thanks,
Jeannine Fallon
PR Director
Edmunds.com

alibajalajaula

I initially took the bait for this road hazard tire & wheel insurance package for my ZHP. I actually purchased it for $600, 5 years. But, like the other folks here say, after I saw the fine print and the mountain of exclusions, plus the aggravation that they will not honor necessarily any damage until "inspected by their insurance adjuster", time elapsed, etc.. I figured out those 600 bucks ought to be better in my pocket , rather than in someone elses. I was lucky because you could cancel within 30 days. I did so, sent 4 faxes, and ended up getting my money back almost 3 months later...truly a genuine ripoff..put it this way, for godsake, if you were to fall in a hole that can damage your wheel, the damage will probably not limit there, it could include brake disc, calipers, suspension, alignment. So basically you have to be concerned is for the tires..Also, the most common nuisance on these 135M 18 inch alloy wheels is to scratch them against curbs. That of course, is not covered. So, there you are paying bucks for more mundane happenings that could likely occur..

glaker

Thanks for the input. I just received and read the details of the policy and can see exactly what you're talking about in terms of potential problems. There's no coverage for curb "incidents" or simple damage to the finish of the wheels. In addition, you have to pay up front and hope for the reimbursement. I'm taking your advice and not buying it. Instead, I'll put the money toward some winter wheels and tires (at least it's a start!)
P.S. To memphis10, I hope you're not out of pocket too much at this point... sorry that happened!

memphis10

I didn't pay too much while paying the road hazard plan and my expectations were pretty low. By the way, my plan was supposed to cover rim damages, scrathes etc. But what's the point if the reimbursement check doesn't come through. I had some minor scratches and had to replace a Pirelli P6000 225R/17 which wasn't that expensive. Next time I would go with the Costco road hazard plan like blueguydotcom suggested.

erickpl

Brave, I know you've mentioned it before, but what kind of brake fluid are you using in your 3er?

I'm ready to bleed my brake lines but wanted to know what brake fluids you'd recommend for a 3 (xi in my case). Any specific brands?

-Paul

div2

I'm not Brave, but I think that any good DOT4 brake fluid will be fine for street use, such as BMW's own fluid or Castrol LMA. If your car sees track use I'd go with ATE Super Blue Racing/Type 200(my favorites), Castrol SRF, or Motul RBF 600-and I'd change it every six months. Just my $0.02.

golfnut5

Can anybody tell me the approximate highway miles per gallon a 330i will average. And what about the highway miles per gallon on the 330xi, is it the same as the 330i or a little less. Thanks.

shipo

Based upon the 33+ that I used to get on my 1999 328i and the 30+ that I get on my 2002 530i (both with 5-Speed manual transmission and driven between 70 and 80 mph), I would say that a 330i should get between 31 and 33 mpg on the highway.

Best Regards,
Shipo

islander71

I confirm what Shipo states. I have a 2002 330I and I average in the low 30's during highway driving. I have a steptronic transmission and drive between 70-80 mph.

brave1heart

What div2 said. Ate Super Blue is the track crowd's favorite, although you won't be able to tell a difference on the street. If you go for the Ate fluid, you may want to consider Ate Super Gold. It is exactly the same as Ate Super Blue except for the color difference. The blue color is a lot more messy IMO. The drawback of using Gold is that it is a little tougher to tell it from the similar-color fluid that you are replacing it with but then, new brake fluids are fairly clear in color and the old one will be much darker. Also, my BMW fluid had little chunks in it...

If you have not replaced the differential and transmission fluids, you may want to consider doing it every 30K miles. Here are the instructions - it's fairly easy, although it can be a little messy:

http://www.bmw325i.net/index.shtml

I use Red Line for both and the shifting is significantly improved (smoother, creamier, more fluid, faster, absolutely awesome - I swear!!). I've tried a 330ci with the UUC short-shift kit and definitely prefer the stock shifter in my car. My friend with the 330ci and UUC SSK also switched to Red Line and he loved it too - he had a huge grin on his face when we went out for a test-drive after we were done changing the fluid!!

m4d_cow

i got a 2004 330i, running around 30-32 mpg on highways, driving around 70-75 mph.