BMW 3-Series 2005 and earlier

paule

I'd love to know where you buy your cars if you think $1000 over invoice is "super pricey" right now.
That goes against what I just experienced and pretty much all of the postings on this board.

blueguydotcom

San Diego at Cunningham BMW the 3 series is $400 over invoice. I believe in OC/LA there's another dealer that does the same - check with costco.

paule

See message #2234 in "prices paid". It sounds to me like the $400 over invoice doesn't exist.
I'd be interested to hear from someone who received that deal on an '05.

m4d_cow

See message #2234 in "prices paid". It sounds to me like the $400 over invoice doesn't exist

Paule, i got mine in july for exactly $400 over invoice-rebate(at that time $2400), but thats a 2004 model though

blueguydotcom

See message #2234 in "prices paid". It sounds to me like the $400 over invoice doesn't exist


What do you want me to say? I handled the purchase of two cars there and both were $400 over invoice (one was actually 1600 under because we added on the 2k rebate for the 325i).

 Also in that message the guy mentioned maco, I definitely did not pay maco either. Perhaps they've changed something but the lack of maco was one reason I bought from them. If they have maco and if I ever go to buy another bimmer, I'll tell them to suck up the maco somewhere else. I refuse to pay for what is a cost of doing business. MACO = ripping customers off.

paule

That was my point. I could see getting a deal like that on a 2004. I'm just wondering if someone really got that deal on an '05 as soon as you could order an '05. Buying a new model year vehicle as soon as they come out tends not to provide you with the best deal possible.
Has anyone received that deal on an '05 in the last 2-3 months?

m4d_cow

the local dealer in my area already took over 50 deposits for the upcoming 3ers, while sales for the current 3 dropped significantly
seems like customers here care more about having the latest product w/ the right brand, this is sad...

blueguydotcom

Not a shock. I fully expect big rebates on the 05s by January.

Hmmm, maybe I'll dump the 03 for an 05 ZHP? If they have 3k rebates that'd put the car with the options I like at around 35-36k. Not a bad deal...

nyccarguy

not a bad idea at all. Didn't you lease though? Do you think BMWFS will let you out of your lease early?

I was actually thinking of the same thing. Sell my Prelude, keep the cash (the car is paid for), and lease an '05 ZHP in January or February.

uv4me

Interesting....not a single reply to my question regarding upkeep costs of 3-series BMWs. Guess that says something about the car and the drivers.

shipo

I guess that means that the upkeep costs are pretty non-existent too. ;-)

Over the last 6 years I've had total "Out of pocket" expenditures (not counting elective expenditures) of a whopping $1.00. That was for two taillight bulbs in my 1999 328i that would have been fixed under warranty had I chosen to go to the dealership to have replaced. I figured it would just be quicker to stop by the local parts store and put them in myself. They took about 2 minutes each.

Regarding elective expenses, I chose to buy winter tires for my current car, and that was about $1,000, I also had my OEM set of wheels and tires balanced a couple of times (just to make sure they kept running smooth, not because I sensed any need), and I also chose to swap out the OEM brake pads with PBR/Axxis Deluxe pads to eliminate the brake dust issue. In all, my elective expenses have come in well under $1,200, counting the new wheels and tires.

Hope this helps.

Best Regards,
Shipo

uv4me

Interesting....not a single reply to my question regarding upkeep costs of 3-series BMWs. Guess that says something about the car and the drivers.

uv4me

My apologies Shipo...guess I was expecting more response from such an active forum. Thanks for your input.

shipo

As a rule (and contrary to the "rap" that a lot of Asian car advocates like to pin on BMWs), they have proven to be fairly inexpensive to operate. True, like all brands they produce a problem child every now and then, that and they are just as susceptible to a bad batch of parts (the aux. cooling fan from 2001 and the VW/Audi ignition coil come to mind) as anyone else. In the end, I think that you will find that most folks here have been delightfully surprised at just how inexpensive the E46 3-Series has been to drive.

The fact is that with the free maintenance, you should be able to drive for the first 50K miles with only putting in gas and putting on tires (assuming that you get the RWD Sport Package).

Best Regards,
Shipo

530ir1150r

Check the latest issue of Kipplinger's. They have their New Car Tables that have average maintenance costs (either 3 or 5 year), average 3 and 5 year resale values and other consumer information.

From memory I think the maintenance costs for most BMWs was near $4000.

kyfdx

Well.. it wouldn't be $4000 for three years.. The only thing you might have to pay for in that time is a set of tires...

On '03 and later BMWs, the maintenance is free for 4yr/50K..

If you lease, you won't find a cheaper car to operate (not counting the lease payment).

Shipo.. What is your residual? Unless I'm being too nosy...

regards,
kyfdx

shipo

Sorry about not getting back to you sooner, I have been up to my eyeballs in work recently and have not yet had a chance to fetch the package from BMW-FS out of the enormous pile of mail and holiday cataloges that we have here. :-/ I'll PM you with the details as soon as I find it. ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

kdshapiro

Wow, I've spent $0 so far. So in the next two years I can expect $4000?

530ir1150r

Looked up the numbers when I got home this evening. Kiplinger's numbers for 5 year service cost (maintenance and unscheduled repairs)for various BMW models; 325i, $3356; 325xi, $3432; 325Ci, $3356; 330i, $3394; 330Ci, $3356; 330xi, $3470; 325Cic, $3356; 330Cic, $3356; 525i, $3496; 545i, $4007; 745i, $4684; 745Li, $4684; 760i, $5389; M3 Coupe, $6115; M3 Convertible, $6115; Z4 2.5, $3651; X5 3.0, $3551 and 325iT, $3356. Other models either were not listed or did not have a service cost given.

brave1heart

The first 4yrs/50K miles are covered ny the maintenance plan. I believe your question was about costs after that period. The E46 is a fairly reliable car. I have kept a detailed log of every single expense that I've incurred over nearly 70K miles of driving my '01 325i but I doubt it would be relevant to you because the expenses are mostly wear and tear due to track driving and autoXing. The regular (to me, very minimum, really) maintenance on the E46 is Inspection I every 15K miles, Inspection II every 30K miles, spark plugs at 100K miles, coolant flush every 4 years, brake fluid flush every 2 years. Insp I is ~ $200, II is ~ $400, coolant ~ $150, plugs ~ $200, you do the math. Pad wear will depend on your driving style but most people get 30-60K miles with regular street driving. Those run ~ $400 pads and rotors for the front; $300 for the rear. All of these dealer prices are a royal rip-off. I do not have strong mechanic skills at all but I learned to do all of these myself and have not been to the dealer in a long time. The only common failures on E46 cars is the lower control arms and the window regulators. The LCAs can cost $700 to replace; the window regulator ~ $250. Overall, great car to drive, very reliable but trivial items can be fairly expensive if you are planning on having the dealer maintain the car.

groggrog

Hi - I'm looking into a 325xi sedan and haven't been able to find any solid info on it's navigation system. Here's what I want to know:

1) Is it a separate component from the stereo?
2) Could I replace the stock stereo without affecting the navigation system?
3) Is the nav bluetooth compatible?

Thanks

kdshapiro

If you saying these figures apply after the 4y/50k finished and the car is into it's 9th year, I absolutely agree. But I know people who own BMWs going into 4/5 years and they have spent very little on their cars - some much less than the people I know who own Japanese vehicles. So while I believe there is a grain of truth to that, I don't think it represents "the truth".

kyfdx

Well.. the only way to tell if Kiplinger's numbers consider that the maintenance is free for the first four years, is to compare it to a brand that doesn't include maintenance.... If the numbers are similar, then we could extrapolate that the person doing the research has disregarded the fact that the maintenance on BMWs is included in the purchase price..

How about looking again, and finding the figures for a Volvo S60 or a Lexus ES330? My guess is they will be close to the BMW 325i, which IMO, proves my point.

regards,
kyfdx

kominsky

I sent you an email at your hotmail account. If that account's still active, check it out when you have a minute. Any help you can offer would be appreciated.

dhanley

My 328i will be crossing 100K miles soon. I bought it at 45K miles CPO from a dealer.

costs:

1) New rear tires at 65K miles ( $300, costco )
2) Oil change(dealer) $65
3) Bought blizzaks on mille miglia rims from a guy selling his m3 through bmw-cca ( $345 )
4) Inspection 1, dealer, 60K miles ($270)
5) brake/coolant fluid flush, serpentine belt (independant): 200
6) replace climate control unit ($50 dealer, CPO )
7) Inspection 2, indie, plugs, dif/tranny fluid ($360)
8) 2 oil changes indie ($120)
9) Front rotors, pads all around. indie ($350)

So, about $2000 for 55K miles. Frankly, i think i spent that much on my saturn, especially when you count the quart of oil i had to add every 500 miles.

If you get everything done at a dealer, and have a lot of problems, you CAN spend a lot of money. But you can spend a lot on a ponitiac or toyota as well. I know people who have.

I'll be hitting 100K miles in a few days. Tech says ball joints are getting worn, and new shocks/tires at some point wouldn't be a bad idea.

dave

blueguydotcom

Yeah I leased but you can buy out a least. If I did it now I'd get the car for something like 29-30k according to the BMW site. Shrug.

As for the cost to operate, heck I've already spent 1k on the car in 18 months ownership. Another $500 pop is coming in the next month or two for new front tires.

kdshapiro

"As for the cost to operate, heck I've already spent 1k on the car in 18 months ownership. Another $500 pop is coming in the next month or two for new front tires."

You spent 1K on what? Getting the damage from a tow job repaired, new tires, electives? I can't believe you spent $1,000 getting things fixed that weren't covered under warranty due to circumstances beyond your control.

brave1heart

I updated my e-mail address - please check in my profile. Thanks -

kominsky

kyfdx

blueguy has the performance package.. tires at $250/each.. I believe he's been through two sets of rear tires already...

kdshapiro

I seem to remember something about him posting about the wear and tear on the tires/brakes due to his insane driving habits. But those are self inflicted, nothing to do with out of pocket repair costs.

webby1

I received a letter from BMW Canada extending my warranty ( on rust ) from 6 yrs unlimited Km to 12yrs unlimited Km on my 2004 330I...no charge.
Anyone in US received this memo?
Regards,
Webby

530ir1150r

The Kiplinger tables are for comparison. I have no idea how they compile the information. Other makes between $30k and $40k: Acura TL 3.2, $2526; Audi A4 3.0, $2349; Cadillac CTS, $3061; Infiniti G35, $3343; Lexus IS 300 E-shift, $2167; MB C320 Sport, $2925; Saab 9-3 Aero, $2558; Subaru Legacy 2.5 GT, $1887; VW Passat GLX, $2522; Volvo S60 T5, $2652; Volvo S80 2.5T, $2771 and again BMW 330i, $3394.

kyfdx

I could be wrong (actually, it happens often), but I think they aren't taking into account the "free" maintenance that is included with the BMW for 4yr/50K... Possibly, not considering the other makes that offer it either.. (Saab and Audi come to mind).

So, far.. in 22K miles, the only expense I've had on my 325i is for winter tires and $35 for chrome exhaust tips ;-)

blueguydotcom

I seem to remember something about him posting about the wear and tear on the tires/brakes due to his insane driving habits. But those are self inflicted, nothing to do with out of pocket repair costs.

Tires. One tire was destroyed by a nail - repair cost was $400 including mounting. 15k miles later I had to replace my rears - that cost over 500.

I need to replace my fronts - got 7k more miles out of them.

Nothing insane there at all. That's pretty standard for anyone with a ZHP to replace tires at around 15-20k miles. I'd say I did well getting 22,500 out of the fronts!

And I don't brakes. :P That's what bushes and people are for.

530ir1150r

Remember it is for 5 years, 75-100k miles, $1500-$2000 for 2-3 sets of tires, 3 or 4 oil changes at $75 each, a couple of wheel alignments, transmission services and whatever else comes along and your close. I'm sure most of the costs are in the last two years.

The main point is BMWs cost more to maintain than most of their competition and if you intend to buy a 3 or 4 year old BMW, get a CPO or be prepared.

kyfdx

I'm betting the main point is their numbers are all wrong, and they don't take the free maintenance into account.. That was my main point.

Kiplingers writes a lot of nice articles with great headlines... but, they suffer from a lack of detail. For instance.. is the number for 5yr/60K or 5yr/75K or 5yr/100K? Are the numbers from real world experience, or did they just call up a dealer and ask them for service quotes for a list of recommended services? If it is for 5yr/60K, do you really think you'll spend over $3000 in maintenance for a 325i in just one year?

Don't get me wrong...BMW dealer service can be expensive, once the "free" maintenance is over.. But, that goes for all the luxury brands. Considering that you would have to pay for six dealer maintenance services from Lexus, before you would pay for the first one on a BMW, I'm pretty sure they are off on their numbers.

regards,
kyfdx

530ir1150r

I have no problem with Kiplinger's credibility. But even assuming you are right, how much do you think free maintenance saves?

My real world experience with a 2002 530i came to 2 oil changes, 2 sets of windshield wipers and replacing brake fluid. I think $300 is generous. Free maintenance is for 4 years now instead of 3, so $500 is again generous. Schedule II Maintenance is at 60,000 miles and I have seen here that it is $1000+/-.

My real world costs have been close to $2000 in 40,000 miles, but I recently bought tires, $700, replaced a wheel, $350 ($750 if new) and had the bent rim fixed, $250. Costs per mile close to .05 cents, without wheels and tires, .0175; and I just surpassed my free maintenance. I fully expect my costs to double over the next 40,000 miles. Hopefully I will not have to fix any wheels, but I do have 6 now and I will buy a spare with a Michelin Pilot Sport Primacy if I find one.

What I expect over 80,000 miles, approximately 5 years. 40,000 miles at .0175, $700; 40,000 miles at .04, $1600; 2 sets of tires, $1400 and the wheel repairs $600; $4300 total. I'm sure you can do cheaper, but I bought this car and expect to keep it for at least ten years. I also have the oil changed and tires rotated and balance every 7500 miles. But the wheels and 5 extra oil changes may add up to $1000, 5 year costs at $3300. A 3 series may be less, but not much and most other makes listed were in the $2000's.

The original question was "how much to expect to pay for maintenance over 4 or 5 years?" In reality it will be approximately $2500 on anything and chances are a BMW will be to the high side compared to other makes, on average.

dewey

I owned my 99 BMW 323 for over 6 years. Up to now no problems. In fact I am incredibly happy with the low maintenance costs.

After my warranty expired, a independent BMW specialist services my car. Once you find an honest mechanic those hefty maintenance costs(3394) becomes a myth.

Although I know as a fact that if I continued servicing my car at BMW the $3394 figure would be more accurate. If I had to pay that much I would have bought a Japanese alternative by now.

In other words if you cherish your life-savings, do not depend on a BMW dealer for non-warranty maintenace!

ballfire8888

Hi Webby1 ....

I took delivery on a new 2004 325i in Toronto but no such 12 year rust perforation letter yet.

Did the letter suggest this would be available to all Canuck bimmers?

Thanks.

eman6628

I got my 2004 330 Ci in April and just last week I got in the mail an updated service manual with 12 year rust perforation. I live in Alberta Canada

webby1

I think it is for all Canada and USA.
The BMW website indicates this as std warranty now so you should get a letter or just call them to confirm.
Regards,
Webby

kdshapiro

The main point is that BMWs are par with the competition. How can you include tires in this? Are you saying BMW tires cost more than Lexus tires? Again, from experience, I would have to spend $3500 in unanticpated expenses over the next 2 years. Highly unlikely and doubtful.

530ir1150r

The costs given are for maintenance and service, anticipated or not. I consider tires maintenance.

If you keep a BMW for 5 years, drive 15k-20k miles a year and follow or exceed recommended service schedules; your total maintenance and service costs will be close to what Kiplinger's listed.

kdshapiro

Maybe the difference is I don't drive 15-20K a year. However, my opinion, is: if it smells like a fish, looks like a fish and tastes like a fish..it may be very well be a fish. In other words, from my experience if you find a good independent costs are very reasonable. Kiplingers may have taken worse case. Having said that, if I drove 20K a year I would have an Impala as my daily beater. Cheap, reliable and comfortable with absolutely none of the pizazz of the BMW.

div2

Well, I've about had it! I just had to replace the timing chain tensioner on my 94,000 mile 1995 Club Sport at a cost of $44! That makes $275 I've had to shell out over the past THREE years on unscheduled repairs. I sure wish I'd bought a Camry...;)

tcn2k

One time or another, someone posted a website that have pics on changing brakes on an e46. Does anyone here still know where i can find this website or address?

Thanks!

erickpl

the e46fanatics website, looking in their Tech/DIY area. It is really very easy to do, you just need the right (everyday) tools, some time, and some cleaner for your hands. I used the latex gloves to keep my hands kinda clean and all the brake dust off of them.

If you haven't already gotten pads, try the PBR/Axxis pads - virtually no brake dust. After a month of no washing, my wheels still look relatively clean - only putting my finger on them will reveal the slight layer of dust.

-Paul

tcn2k

where should i get these brake pads; as well as rotors and the brake sensor for my front brakes?

erickpl

Just get the sensor from your dealer - they're pretty cheap.

I got my pads from Zeckhausen Racing:
http://www.zeckhausen.com/axxis_pads.htm or
http://www.zeckhausen.com/BMW/E46.htm

If you do a search for PBR or Axxis, you should find them. I got the Deluxe Plus pads (Shipo had used the Original Deluxe pads). They have just a bit of squeal to them on occasion, but the zeckhausen site has processes for bedding in the pads you should follow. I don't think I did it quite right. But the squeal is minimal.

-Paul