BMW 3-Series 2005 and earlier

ceilidhbec

I always enjoy reading anything that Jon Shafer or Gurumike contributes to this board. I enjoy those pictures Jon posts. I know Jon's a sales manager at Cutter and that Mike sells cars for them because they've told us so, so they're not here in disguise. Typically what they have to say and to post is infinitely more interesting than the people who post "I love my car and here's why" 5 times a day. They know what they're talking about and they have demonstrated again and again here and on the bimmer.org site a genuine desire to go way out of their way to help all the members without any regard for selling them a car or for making money off them. They both seem like great guys and I'm sorry that one person has potentially ended their willingness to be so giving of their time and their knowledge and their patience.

aaa330i

It's up to me to decide to click them or not. If I don't want to visit, I don't click. Sounds pretty simple to me. Service != Spam or advertising.

denright

Information per cars.com-

Loaded 325i - SP, PP, CWP, leather, fog lights, cruise control, metallic paint, HK sound, in-dash CD - $32,440 (invoice).

Loaded 330 - SP, PP (including leather), HK (standard), CWP, in-dash, metallic, etc. (comparably equipped) - $36,305.

A little over $4K difference. Further, this does not take into account that even if the 330 didn't get the SP it would still get the sport suspension, and even if it didn't get the PP it would get power seats.

kominsky

If Mike or Jon were sending us links to their dealerships homepage, MAYBE that could be seen as an impropriety. The way it is, they are sending a link to a page that has pictures that were requested and just happens to have an additional link which can be ignored by anyone. Jon has previously helped me personally, through Bimmer.org, knowing full well that I was on the east coast and would not be giving him any business. I truely believe they are enthusiasts looking to help other enthusiasts. Thanks, Terry

brave1heart

4 grand on the invoice or about 5 on the MSRP, depending on how you look at it but it's around there - 4 to 5 net. Also, keep in mind that fog lights, cruise, and auto climate are standard on the 325 and the SP is $1,400 instead of $1,500. That's at least another $1,000 in additional total savings on the 325, so the difference may be more than 5 grand, depending on how you look at it. The 330 has more chrome and some styling cues that must be worth something too. It also has some options that are not available on the 325 if you were to purchase those. But there's no denying that you absolutely cannot get the 41 added HP aftermarket for the same price. As you can see, though, BMW's 3-series pricing strategy makes a lot of sense. Most people do NOT realize that the 330 is 5 grand more expensive than the 325 for the engine ALONE and they just buy it. Not like they wouldn't necessarily buy it if they KNEW that it's about 5 grand. All I'm saying is that there's a good possibility most people may not be aware of that. It's fine with me, I don't mind it if BMW makes a lot of money on the top-end models so they can pass the savings on to their entry-level 325's ) You don't actually think that BMW is making more money off the 325 than the 330 PERCENTAGE-wise, do ya?

pat

I have advised gurumike and jon_shafer how they can make that page acceptable within the Town Hall terms of use. I hope that they are able to do so, because I agree, the pictures are a wonderful resource.

Let's just get back to discussing the vehicles now, okay?

Pat
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jpcbearden

brave1heart-
you are right. have fun

platypus-
did you get floor mats in munich? i heard one time you don't leave anything in the car when you drop the car to ship back to the states. is that right?

thedeepdarkblu

Does anyone else think that the titanium/chrome doo-dad on the front spoiler of the 330 looks strange and out of place? It doesn't seem to blend well with the rest of the car. It actually looks like some aftermarket piece that was just slapped on.

kominsky

I like the horizontal 'slats', but could personally do without the mesh. I have, however, gotten many compliments on it.

brave1heart

I don't know, I actually like it just the way it is. And this coming from a 325-er, I know. I think it looks sportier, a bit more aggressive and it doesn't seem overdone. The vents are wider too, right?

thedeepdarkblu

You have the 325i w/ SP, right? Does that have the bullet-style fog lights?

max63

the car, the price gets closer. The money factor on the 330 last month was .00211, which translates into about a 5 percent apr. I believe the money factor for the 325 was a little over 7 percent. And dont fool yourself, 44 ponies is a significant increase in speed. You also get the cool M facia with the 330. Just a thought.

kominsky

I BELIEVE on the Ci's the fronts are identical with different coloration. On the i's, the 330 w/sport package comes with the more aggressive 'm' aero-package. That may explain the wider vents...

stokdgs

See if you can get the dealer to throw those in for free, installed. I did and I really like them alot. They actually look very good aerodynamically and are pretty flat on the inside so there is not alot to clean out when you wash the wheelwells. They only come in flat black but you wont notice and the protection to the paint is well worth it. Laughed at the flaps you referred to - see alot of them in rural areas of Calif..
DanF

gurumike

Thank you. I can't help people if you're going to persist in this new policy of cleaning my input.

brave1heart

The 325i SP came with the rectangular fog lights. I know the rounds are more popular but I personally like both of them. What I really like is those rear reflectors on the coupe - those are awesome!

I'm not at all a fan or much less an expert on leasing but last time I checked on bmwusa.com, a lease on a 37K 330i was the same price as a lease on a 32K 325i. It must have been the promotion that BMW was running on 330i leases. I thought that expired end of April, no?

M fascia: I like Porsche's motto that goes "There is no substitute". The M fascia looks good on the M3 and it looks totally pretentious on the 330i. It looks like something it's not. As far as the ponies, no illusions at all. There is a significant diff in power in most configurations. Even with manual tranny, the 330i would beat the 325i by almost a full second from 0 to 60. And knowing what I know now that I've had the 325i for 10 days, I'd still buy it over the 330i. I need some competition on the road or I get bored when I have it TOO easy ) And the 5 grand that I saved is invested and it is almost up to 6 by now.

lewparker

Have any of you guys checked out the BMW short films at www.bmwusa.com? I've downloaded the John Frankenheimer and Ang Lee films. They are both excellent.

I called bmwna today and learned that my car is at the exit port waiting for a boat to carry it over here. It is status 193. I will call back later this week and find out if its on a boat yet.

Can't wait!

kominsky

You think the dealer would throw them in 3 months after I got the car? :-) You don't by any chance have any jpegs or gifs of your car with them on, do you? Thanks, terryk

stokdgs

I liked everything about it except the mesh part behind, reminded me of any modified Japanese cars. Why doesnt anybody think to paint that part flat black so it blends in? I have never been a fan of different color items in the grill, think they should be all the same color and inside need to be flat black to blend in with radiator, etc... Also, flat black tends to help remove heat better than shiny colors or chrome, etc.. That mesh stuff reminds me of 7th grade Metal Shop stuff... Just my opinion, hope to not offend anyone... :-)
DanF

stokdgs

Ha ! I dont think anyone would throw them in 3 months after, sorry..Wouldnt hurt to try, tell them you are wanting to buy another one soon, refer someone to them that buys one and they might.. Ive already sold a 530 and an X5 for my dealer and he owes me plenty..
I have a digital camera now and will try to get a picture out there for you, might be hard to see since its Jet black and the flaps are black too but hope you can get the idea.. Or just go ask the parts guy to show you one. They fit right and and are not "universal" or anything, you will like them..
Dan F

denright

Ok, just checked out the 325i prices taking into account the fact that fogs and cruise are now standard on the 325. With SP, PP, CWP, In-dash, premium, metallic and leather, the invoice comes out to $31,815 - just under $4,500 less than the comparably equipped 330i.

I guess, in my own circumstances, I felt like it was less because I went from looking at pre-March loaded 325xi prices (which came out to around $35K and change) to a loaded 330xi with post-March inclusions and prices (standard HK, lower premium package price, etc.)

Because I didn't like the ground effects, etc. on the 330 SP, and because sport suspension is standard on the 330s, I deleted the SP, which saved me another $800. Comparing apples to oranges, it felt like I was only spending about $3K more for the 330xi than I was going to spend on the 325xi.

Make sense?

brave1heart

No offense at all. C'mon, we're gonna be apologizing just 'cuz we like different things? It's a lot of pressure being THAT friendly ) I personally don't mind the rear on the 330i SP - I mean the 3-series is styled fairly conservatively and it's OK to jazz it up a little, IMO. Especially being a performance car and all. Even with all the SP trim it still looks a lot classier than any Japanese car.
Oddly enough, I seem to e one of the few people that doesn't like the black side molding on the sedans. It looks OK with darker colors when it doesn't stick out too much but it looks a little too rubbery for my taste when matched to a lighter color.

pat

Please see the emails I have recently sent you.

Pat
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brave1heart

That's how BMW's thinking goes too. Most people get tired of comparing the options and since a typical BMW buyer has the money, they just go and get the more expensive model. And you know what, I REALLY think you are doing the right thing. The 330's HP is much better suited for the extra weight of the AWD. The 325xi would be a total dog compared to the 330xi. Your money is well spent.

PS: the auto climate is another $300-400 in savings.

platypus

Sometime earlier this year, BMW began including floor mats in ED cars. I was prepared to buy mats at the Munich dealership in case I didn't get them, but they were in the car at delivery. I'm surprised they haven't included the mats all along.

It's true that you have to take everything from the vehicle at drop-off. The floor mats were an exeception though. Since they were provided by BMW at time of delivery, BMW insures them on the car's paperwork. So I didn't have to lug them back with me in a suitcase. However, I did have to take the manuals, flashlight, first aid kit, hazard warning triangle, and the Harms representative removed the front Euro plate for me. (I had also purchased wheel locks at the delivery center which they installed for me. The Harms guy made a photocopy of my receipt and said it was OK to leave the locks on the car.)

I saw a post this morning on bimmer.org from someone who had called ahead and had the ED center install clear lenses before pick-up. (She paid for them of course.) Now that I wish I had done! Clears are cool, especially on silver.

brave1heart

You guys all seem to like the clears a lot. I know this is the new design trend and maybe it will grow on me in time but I always associate them with kids driving modified Civics. They look OK but even if they gave them away for free, I would not have put them on. Maybe it has to do with my 325i's color - I think that the orange lenses go very well with the Orient Blue exterior.

platypus

brave1heart - I believe you are in the majority concerning the black side molding on the sedan. It's my experience that most people don't like it. I will respectfully disagree with you on this topic. IMO, the black side molding adds character to a car that would otherwise be too monotone. I like to cite the 2001 530i vs. the 2000 528i as an example. In titanium silver, the '00 model with its black side molding has a more classic sporting look, whereas the '01 model with its body colored molding has a more modern, yet bland look.

I suspect that the 2002 3-series will have body colored molding and clear lenses (as the '01 5-series).

platypus

brave1heart - clears were around as the standard in Europe long before they became the lenses of choice of the modified Civic generation. BMW OEM clears have a very tasteful look to them, unlike those on the IS300, and other modded cars today.

You are correct that clears look better on some colors than others. IMO, silver, steel grey, red, and topaz look better with clears. Orient, black, and white look better with amber.

brave1heart

It's funny - my molding preferences are in the majority but you disagree and your clears preferences are in the majority but I disagree. I actually like this - makes for more distinctive cars having different people like different cars, you know. Variety's good.

I saw pictures of the '02 3-series and I gotta tell ya I didn't like what they did to it. I know from experience that I tend to be a little old-fashioned when it comes to new models. I still don't like the way they separated the headlights into two separate compartments and layered the rear lights - it's way too modern; I like my cars (and women ;o)) classier.

denright

I agree... the 325xi seemed sluggish -- at least for a $35K car. This feeling was exacerbated by the fact that I test drove a FWD Audi A4 1.8 the same day. The A4 1.8's 170 HP turbo 4 cylinder is actually incredibly torquey!

Then I drove the 330xi a few weeks later.

My first words when pulling out onto the highway with the 330xi for the first time: "Holy crap!"

See, I had expected a marginal improvement in acceleration compared to the 325xi. Wrong! The difference was dramatic. Ten minutes later, I knew we were getting the 330xi. The only remaining question was how hard I was going to have to work to talk my wife into it.

After she test drove both, it wasn't hard at all.

unboringuy

Did you ever find my vehicle? 330xi, PP, CWP, SP, xenons, in dash CD, supposedly is a week 23 production, ordered through Frank Z Imports in Dayton. I don't have a production number.

Thanks.

brave1heart

Yep, the 325xi and the 330xi are more than a second apart from 0 to 60. The 325's engine is not adequate for a 3,500 lbs car - I would've done the same thing as you had I purchased the AWD.

Man, that A4 1.8T flies, I'm telling you. 0 to 60 in sub-7 with manual from a 4-banger is phenomenal. It's < 3,000 lbs and it's got a flat MAX torque curve from 1,800 rpms all the way to 5,000 rpms - this thing is going in the museum of technology some day. We actually wanted to get the FWD configuration at first but later were we convinced that the resale value would be unproportionately poorer w/o the Quattro and we said well, the Quattro doesn't hurt, it's still a great package for the money.

kominsky

brave1heart; I gotta agree with platypus on this one. I think most people like the look of body-colored molding more. For me personally, it was one of a few things that drove me to buy the coupe instead of the sedan, although it wasn't one of more heavily weighted items.

platypus; Get the car and spend a little time looking at it with the amber corners before rushing into the clear corners. Maybe you can learn from my mistake on this one... I ordered a full set of clears about a week after I ordered the car. They're still sitting in the packaging in which they arrived. I agree with Brave1heart that the ambers look pretty good... at least on dark colored cars.

platypus

brave1heart: I like the 3er design of the headlights, but will agree with you on the tailights. I really dislike that extra lens that juts out into the trunk area. They should have just omitted it and built the white reverse indicator into the main lens. The 5er, and 7er for that matter, tailight designs are much cleaner.

platypus

Maybe I have to learn the hard way. Would you be interested in parting with your clears?

drcr

Is the 325 sport actually lower than the non-sport? I hope so.

What is the deal w/ the xenons? I saw an Audi TT and the lights looked blueish and later I saw another TT and they looked whiter? Do they need to warm up like the driving range lights?

Does anyone know what it's like for the ride over seas on the slowboat? I hope that my car is encapsuled in a waterproof cell surrounded by thousands of down pillows. It probably surrounded by 10 drunkin sailors covered in half empty beer cans and used pizza boxes. Comments/Pictures?

drcr

brave1heart

platypus said that 'the black side molding adds character to a car that would otherwise be too monotone'. You seem to like the monotone better, so I'm not sure why you think you agree with him. Maybe I misread sth.

platypus, You've been spending too much time in Europe hanging out with those people that like everything looking fashionable and stylish. Just picking on you, I'm still jealous you got such a good deal and had the time of your life driving around Europe. I went in Germany for just 1/2 hr when I was visiting France last year - actually went to Switzerland, France and Germany all on the same day - you know that Basel/Mulhouse corner where the 3 countries meet. What a beautiful and cosmopolitan place, I loved it. Oh, I ONLY crossed the border over to Germany so I could go to the nearest BMW dealership!!! It actually looked a lot like the ones around here but needless to say I was very excited about it because I already knew I was getting a BMW.

kominsky

platypus; if you're getting a Ci, drop me an email (kominsky@agere.com), if you're getting an i, they won't fit.

drcr; send me your email address. i've got a picture of a topaz sedan on the ship. it's quite a sight... covered in cosmoline (sp?) and sitting within 2" of a car on either side. this probably will not, however, raise your confidence level. :-)

brave1heart

I think by about an inch and a half and it looks GREAT!!
xenons warm up in just a few brief seconds. A lot of people that didn't get them OEM are putting in aftermarkets - maybe that's why you're seeing differences. Just get them if you still can.

Have you seen those DHL ads on TV with the French guy sitting in a bistro and going like 'Capitalistic pigs...' And the one with the heavy metal band delivering packages in a van with one of the guys going 'Iuri, don't smush packages' - ROTFL!!!!!!! I betcha the sailors would be very happy to "smush" some rich boy's BMW.

kominsky

sorry... gotta start looking at my posts from others point's of view (they always make sense to me). I was agreeing with platypus' statement about most people (not him) preferring the monotone moldings.

platypus

You're right. Too much time in Europe can do screwy things to your mind. After all, why would I want to have lunch at a pizzeria enjoying some of the thinnest-crust pizza around along with my insalata caprese and a glass of Chianti, when I could just run down to the corner for a quarter pounder, large fries, and a coke? ;-)

gurumike

Hi and yes I did find your car last week. As I recall, your car was on order for Dayton, looking like a June production car.

platypus

Rats! I'm getting the 4-door.

drcr

Thanks. Kominsky- sent you and email. I'm curious to see them.

brave- counting the days- too late for the xenons, mine's on the boat

drcr (titslv/graylth/5spd/sport/sroof)

kominsky

For what it's worth, when I was shopping around for them, Pacific BMW (pacificbmw.com) had the best price I could find for the full set.

brave1heart

A lot for the soul(sport).

adam68

Just bought a 2001 black 325Ci and would love recommendations on a single step wax.

Thanks..

stokdgs

My 01' 325i Black, 5 spd, SP, PP, Black leather, Xenon, HK, Changer, sits lower than non SP on those 17" x 8 " wheels. I really like it !
There was an article in a Roundel awhile back told all about the shipping procedure, you are correct, they are barely inches away and tied down at all 4 corners, and loaded down with cosmoline. They are experimenting with a shrink wrap now that is supposed to be better and alot less work at the port. There are ALOT of people between your car after it leaves Munich and when you take posession. Im amazed at all the Q/C that is done and how well organized it is.. They even weed out any damaged cars, parts, long before, and make some of them dealer demo's instead of giving the customer a damaged car.. They even block the suspension so there is absolutely no movement the entire voyage = no wear= happy customer..
Believe we get our money's worth guys..I just spent a few hours on my black beauty using the Clay Bar and talk about making it smooth, its unbelieveably smoother than I can imagine possible. Followed up with a great polish/sealant and its perfect ! I really like the amber lights against the black, and wont change it to clears as its to me, too much contrast.
Ive always liked same color body moldings and wouldnt hesitate to get them painted if I didnt have a black car. Always did this on a variety of cars, and never had a problem..
This board has NEVER in the 18 months or so Ive been around, been so good!! Thanks to all for great thoughts, feedback, and courtesy...

DanF

pat

Please do not use Town Hall for buying/selling stuff - that is against your TOU. Thanks.

Pat
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shipo

Another difference between the 325i and the 330i; the brakes. The ones mounted on the 330i have a greater swept area, maybe GURUMIKE can give us the exact measurements. In 1999 when I bought my 328i, the manual transmissions were different as well, however, I do not know if this is still the case. Back then (if my memory serves me correctly), the 323i had a manual made by Getrag, and the 328i had a ZF built gearbox. Once again, maybe the GURU can enlighten us on this issue as well.

Xenon headlights; I read a dissertation on them back in 1998 and learned that unlike conventional lights (Halogens or otherwise), Xenon lights do not have an electrode. Xenon lights are actually a mixture of gases (primarily xenon) that when subjected to an electrical charge; light up. While on, these lights use something like half of the electricity of comparable Halogen lights, however, like fluorescent lights, they need to be blasted with a high voltage charge to get started. When I turn mine on in my garage (pointed toward a white wall) I see an initial bright flash (lasts less than .25 seconds) followed by constant almost pure white light. No warm up time.

Best Regards,
Shipo