Mercedes-Benz S-Class

mrman_3k1

paulchiu

I have to pour cold water here, sorry! But the stone looks like plastic to me. Looks like the crap used in Ford Escorts.....

Wood is the way, not rocks! Besides, it'll be too cold in the winter...

merckx

Personal,emotional objects like automobiles will always elicit various responses,but I must say that the granite trim looks terrific!I really love it. And yet I really don't care for wood-Espically the wood wheel on the CL-yet I know many will pay $1,000 for it. The extra trim usually looks a little over the top-something Lexus has no problem giving us if we ask for it. But Mercedes seems to show a little restraint,probably because of its heritage.
But I do like the stone.

mrman_3k1

For anybody wondering what the keyless go looks like, take a look at those CL pictures with the stone. The button on the shifter is the starter and stopper.

It is interesting to think of it this way, but cars are art. People like and interpret art very differently, and in my eyes and in the picture, the granite looks really neat. In the Bay area it never really gets that cold, so it would not have that really cold effect. I just would hate to see the pricing for it.

tarik

Hello fellow enthusiasts,

Bad news: Since I had unintentionally infringed on copyrighted material (i pulled pictures from the MB site into my TH posts), I had to delete my previous messages and with them all the pictures about the S-Class Pullman and the granite interior trim and such. I do, however, now provide (lawful) links to those images, here they are:

Pullman exterior, Pullman interior/back seat, interior trim parts made from granite, armored S-Classes, have fun looking.

I hope that this is OK with the statutes!?

Tarik

scargo160quick

It was good while it lasted!

pfiorentino

That isn't going to do much to counter the unfortunate image of a bus that the S Class conjures up for some people.

paulchiu

Once again, JD Powers initial surveys has the LS430 on top of the luxury cars market. That's many years in a row; with no major complaints on things like fit and finish, noise, ride, and engine performance. OK! It's not as pretty as the S500; but I wonder why I would want to plug down again 100K in 2003 when I can go $70 for much less minor iritations.

flint350

A very good question. And there are many who would suggest (myself included) that the irritations you speak of are anything but minor. I know value for money spent is not a big issue with most on this board, but there is a point at which one foolishly spends and doesn't receive what he paid for. And service dept. answers like "we know, but there is nothing that can be done" just don't seem reasonable to me at this price point. At least, those were the conclusions I came to in my buying decision. My only regret was missing that trip to Germany to pick up a new S Class and the ensuing tour. While I was truly looking forward to that, I don't regret skipping it for a much less trouble-free driving experience in my LS430. Just my opinion, not trying to start (re-start) any kind of battle or flame war.

rexconde1

When my parents had a lexus 90 and a 98. They are excellent cars, however they are a bit floaty, and one thing that I could not say is that I never felt quite safe in them, never quite solid as a German Car, be it MB or BMW.

Its just a feeling though. It is also because of personal experience that I would take the MB hands down over the LExus. Dont get me wrong, I'm sure the Lexus is safe but this is IMO. The fit and trim and the interior of the LExus is nice, and in some point nicer than MB.

IMO, I would be happy to take an LS headon with an S-Class anyday. But I would prefer to be in the S.

Robert

ljflx

If you are in this class of car it would be foolish for S-class buyers not to look at the LS430 and vice-versa for LS430 buyers. What do you have to lose - a test drive. I can tell you that I went though a lot of anguish for a while in December over the S-430 vs. the LS430. Then I moved on to the S-500 vs. the LS430 because the S-430 just didn't have the zip of the LS430. While the S-500 is faster at 0-60 by a fraction it seemed to me that the two cars were about equal (if not in Lexus favor) at jumping from say 50-60mph to 70-80mph. I ended up going with the LS430 in the end and couldn't be happier. When a work change occurred and I needed a second car for commuting I took a second LS430 because the first one was so satisfying though today I would give serious consideration to the SC430. Why did I go Lexus - better ride, extremely quiet - no rattles or squeaks (they drive me nuts- I moved my cd's to the trunk because their movement in my glovebox was the only noise in the car), spectacular stereo system, past experience - I've been leasing LS400's since 95(nothing goes wrong with these cars, I've never had a car in for anything but normal maintenance and the bad ones are few and far between), great dealership service and the most beautiful interior I've ever seen. I did like the Mercedes handling (though the Lexus sport suspension on the Ultra and Euro version if you stay away from the Ultra was just as good) and the Mercedes prestige factor but saw the complaints on this board, knew I nor any LS400 owner I know ever had such experiences and stayed with Lexus. Besides the new LS430 is a much better car than the older LS400 version and the reliability/interior comfort/great ride factors were the most important things to me.

The S-500 is a great car and I'll certainly look at it again in 2004 (God-willing) but its going to take a lot to pry me away from the Lexus LS assuming the cars remain as trouble-free as ever. Check out the Lexus LS board and you'll find that the problems posted there are the most minute things you'll ever see. For your information there are also rumors about a bigger v-8 and a v-12 in the near future.

Hope this helps you. I don't intend to start any S-LS battles here so I hope no one takes this the wrong way.

mrman_3k1

Today MB called me to inform me that I could not purchase the SLR, they are going to lease it to people so that people can not buy it and mark it up like the Z8. They also said that they are not taking anymore orders and are actually giving peoples downpayments back because they are full. One nice thing unlike BMW marking up the Z8 by 200%, they are keeping it the same price so that they can "maintain their image". I think that is a great idea but I really wish I could have purchased it, at least it I can lease it for a while. Also, another reason they are doing this is because they are making so little amounts of the SLR, they want to keep them for the history "scrapbook" of MB.

rexconde1

How much are the deposits?

mrman_3k1

The deposits are a non-refundable unless they give it back $50,000(US).

vicfa

I live in the north east and when last year it came down to choose either the E430 4matic or the S430, I had an obligated choice for the E. I would love to get my hands on the new S 4matic, when it comes out. Anybody knows when?

fkhawaja

Has anything heard anything good or bad concerning Yokohama's AVS db tires in 225/60 R16 W? These are Yokohama's new ultra-high performance all-seaons tires.

pfiorentino

If you want an almost perfectly made appliance, buy a Lexus LS. It's build quality is unmatched. But it is nothing more than a soulless appliance, albeit an almost flawless one. Worse, it's styling cues are out-and-out stolen from the new S Class. Even I, who is extremely car aware, often mistake the LS for an S Class at a distance. That is not by accident. This is a deliberately derivative copy-cat design. Which is perhaps a major part of why the Lexus just doesn't have the same cache and level of style that a Benz has.

If you want a driver's car, on the other hand, a car that rewards technique and urges you to press on, then get the Benz (a BMW will do, too). You'll have to put up with occasionally annoying small imperfections, and be able to afford to pay significantly more (you can almost buy two of the unoriginal LS' for what one well equipped S500 will cost). But in return you'll get a better driving experience, more subtle and refined luxury, and the ultimate in safety protection for you, and indeed even other vehicle drivers or even pedestrians that may come in contact with you should the worst occur.

There's a reason why virtually every single driver on the Formula One Circuit drives a big Benz (in addition to their hefty discount, of course!).

paulchiu

It's well known that the world's richest man drives Lexus flagship for years. Says a lot, since he can afford driving a different car every day.

fb4

Hi, everyone. New to the discussion and I am reading all the messages in one day, so maybe this has already been discussed.

There was a message posted in the past asking about a twin turbo V12 in the S600.

That is, indeed, true, but it will be in the Mercedes Benz Maybach. There was recently a small piece in Car and Driver about it. It will be longer than the S600 and will run almost 200,000. It will compete with Rolls.

Not a Mercedes owner myself, but maybe someday...only 28 and a few more years in residency. Maybe then!

44264

Please Bill Gates is a successful businessman, but that doesn't entail his choice of automobile will suit our needs.

Bill Gates can also afford to have any hairstyle and eye glasses money can buy and yet he looks the way he does.

I say the Sultan of Brunei has much better taste in cars!

paulchiu

Consider this! Without Bill Gates, you would not be writing here; in this forum, expressing your views. Just one of the many contributions Gates has given us. Without the Sultan of Brunei, many recession-struck Malaysians might have extra resources to better their lives. Gates built his empire with his brains and with some luck. This Sultan, living like the Pharaohs of yore, was lucky to have been born a prince. He has not done much to help expand his countries dependence on oil and gas exploration into other industries through the years.

"Who cares about what Bill Gates drives"? Maybe you're right. But unless you're born into wealth, I don't see why anyone should be looking to admire this Sultan of Brunei.....

paulchiu

Drew,

Please post picture of new SL here.

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/06/03/automobiles/03BIMM.html

Thanks!

Paul

drew_

Unfortunately I can't do that since the picture is copyrighted. However, here is a direct link to the image: http://graphics.nytimes.com/images/2001/06/01/business/03auto.2.jpg


I like it! The headlamps look similar to the SLR.


Regarding Bill Gates' Lexus, according to people I know who work at Microsoft, Mr. Gates is quite frugal and those LS4x0's of his (and his wife's) are actually leased vehicles. Would make sense I guess, if he could charge those to the company. Don't forget though, that he is a Porsche 911 enthusiast, and hence he is "allowed" to have a rather boring and appliance car for a daily commute since he has a few fun ones to play with on the weekend ;-)


Drew
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44264

I read about them in one of the Car & Driver issues. It's really crazy with Aston Martin custom making station wagons for him and other crazy special exotics. He would hire a whole team of engineers living in his Palace to take care of his fleet of McClaren F1, Bentley's etc. Totally ridiculous if you ask me, but surely a car enthusiast.

As to Bill Gates and the internet, I don't know who to thank, without Apple, who knows when and if MS would have come up with Windows, and without Netscape, who knows how good IE would be, same with Lotus, WordPerect and the other small guys inspiring MS. Regarding this dicussion, I rather thank Mr. Paul Chiu for the interesting and informative posts than Mr. Gates for his contribution to the internet, that's for sure!

paulchiu

I was driving my loaded S500 today with my lovely wife and 3 year old son. It was sunny after a miserable weather week here in New York city. Then some low life cut me off in the middle lane on the Grand Central expressway. The car was a S55 AMG in the same silver color as mine. Right away, I was envious that this fella waited enough time to get the AMG and I didn't. Then As he pulled away; now in the left passing lane, there was a nasty dent on his passenger door with paint damage! AHHHH! I felt better already.

Nearing 40, but still an immature adolescent at heart.....

palbertr

Got my S55 last thursday. Somebody dented the hood already.

paulchiu

Sorry to hear that, I had mine last month, from a rock; i think! Unless the paint is damaged, you can get it fix using the paintless dent removal (PDR) service at your Benz dealership. It'll cost you $200 per dent. Might or might not be worth it!

Be glad that it's not the windshield!

rexconde1

Its those darn porters at the dealership!

Robert

palbertr

Had it done on Friday.Looks brand new for $100. Really love the S55 Had my 740il done 2 years ago by Dent Wizard. They fixed a big dent (kids bike) and 6 small dents. Worked for 3 hours and a dispatcher mistake traveled 60 miles. They charged only $75. What a bargin and the work was great

paulchiu

$100 is great! Not bad for peace of mind! Dents on the S class hood is actually not a piece of cake, as the hood is 2 layers of steel sandwiched together. So these 'dent wizards' need to somehow get to the 'underside' of the outside dent to push it out. I can never figure out how they actually do this; since they do not actually remove the inside bolts to separate the 2 layers.

Surprises me how they do this magic.....

pfiorentino

There's a better spy shot of the new SL in this week's Autoweek, the one with the Indy 500 photo on the cover.

As for Bill Gates driving a Lexus, why am I not surprised. But why should we care about what he thinks about cars anymore than what pearls he has to bestow upon us about estate taxes. He may or may not be the richest man in the world (what's MSFT at today?), but he's out of his depth when it comes to cars and economics.

Come to think of it, he's an astonishingly poor defense witness, too, for a supposedly bright guy. Now who does that remind me of...

vbnm

of the many things bill gates is guilty of:

-being an exceptionally shrewd, if unscrupulous businessman
-being a cut-throat competitor
-being a technological visionary

he remains innocent of being style-conscious. perhaps, then, we should indeed pay attention to the car gates chooses to drive daily, and assume that it is the most functional, un-stylish, boring car on the market. Lexus LS 430? check. truthfully, i'd be almost disappointed if i knew gates was tooling around redmond in a red arnage or jet black 740i sport. and for those who believe that people who make his kind of money are, somehow, "above" purchasing status symbols, Oracle honcho Larry Ellison drives a bright yellow Bentley Azure, thank you very much ;-)

bitkahuna

Ellison, arrogant, angry, obnoxious.
Gates, smart but not arrogant, nerdy but not angry or obnoxious.

I'd rather be unstylish than obnoxious and arrogant.

megasuvowner

Back to the topic on the Sultans cars, i will admit that i am extremely jealous of all his 5,000 cars that he shares with his bro. I mean, a bentley SUV? ferrari and aston martin station wagons? Custom Bentley sedans and limos, concept cars. Mechanics from Rolls-Royce, Ferrari, and Mercedes at his mansion 24-7? Sections of the Rolls-Royce factory devoted to his fleet?This guy has it all and more.

bitkahuna

That means he's a loser... all the material wealth in the world can't make him or anyone else happy. And as long as you're jealous of him you'll never be happy either.

44264

Besides his fleet of expensive automobiles, the Sultan has many wives too.. Happiness is all relative and one can argue that if one is envied of materialistic things (such as S-Class sedans), one is but enslaved to worldly desires and will never be truly happy.

But then, this is a forum about the shallow joy and pain related to having and not having automobiles.. so any more reviews on the SL?

paulchiu

My take on this is that the 1st year SL model will be problematic; for sure! So, if you're in the market for one, get the 2002 SL600 silver arrow LE. All the little problems should be out of this final year model!!

vbnm

please, if you're implying that gates is impervious to the allure of status symbols, explain to me how anyone NEEDS a 70k sq. ft. "house". moreover, gates is most certainly arrogant, and ellison only appears more so because he has the sack to admit his arrogance. bill gates is nice to his wife, and he's nice to paul allen. he's NOT nice to his competition, however, and anyone else who poses a threat to his dominance. don't be a sucker for the "nice guy in the glasses, khakis, and sweater-vest" routine. gates is certainly a mastermind, but he's also a brat.

sorry, i know this was off topic, but this is the last you'll hear about bill gates from me...

vbnm

i remember reading about the sultan's ridiculous collection (some 3000 cars at any given time) in car and driver. i think by far the coolest cars i saw in their photo spread were his one-off estate versions of the ferrari 456 gt and bentley turbo R. an even greater, mindless extravagance: his half-witted brother, prince jeffri, owns an enormous yacht which he named "[non-permissible content removed]". i kid you not.

drew_

Don't miss the weekly MB Tuesdays chat at 6-7pm Pacific/9-10pm Eastern! All MB fans/enthusists/owners/potential owners are welcome to participate. Hope to see you there!

Click on the link below to enter the chat at the times above. Note that the link to the chat is always near the top of this page, just under the discussion topic title:

http://www.edmunds.com/chat/mercedeschat.html


Drew
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fuzzo

I was wondering if anyone here owned/ownes a 92/93 S class. Can you tell me if it had any out of the ordinary problems since it was the first year that body style came out.

I was just asking because I have been monitoring the C-class forum and that car has some minor problems as well. I have found a 92 S-class that I am interested but wanted to research what sorts of problems the first year had.

Thanks in advance.

merckx

They have been problematic on early 90s S-classes.My sister just repaired the air conditioning on her 92 to the tune of $2,000.
Still a superlative car,though.

mlbarnes

There were some problems with the suspension on the early models. The problem was so bad that Mercedes-benz gave a $5,000 dollar credit on a trade in.

paulchiu

Any of you invest in Daimler Chrysler stock? Helps to pay for that 2004 S500 or 2004 E55!

Near $46 again!

Buy 2000 shares now, at 92K. If it goes back to old high near $103. You'll pick up 114K for your new 2004 Benz. Sounds good on paper. The risk is all yours......

rexconde1

Why not just go long call contracts, or write the puts!

Again the risk, and I mean big risk is all yours



Robert

mrman_3k1

fuzzo

has anyone tinted the windows on their cars. I was told that MB discourages window tinting because it messes up the power windows. Has anyone had this problem.

do this void the warranty?

rexual

When you picked up your brand new S's at the dealership. What's considered acceptable as far as the milage on the odometer and what's not?

What are some of the things that you have done or checked on to ensure that they don't do anything irresponsible like they were mentioned in a few of the postings in the recent past?

Any suggestions? Thanks.

paulchiu

I think under 100 miles is acceptable, but under 50 is the norm. I would check: door alignment, oil leak under engine, tire pressure, dings, dents, scratches inside and outside, windows, before handing over the check.

rexual

Thanks Paul for your info. Anyone out there that is looking to order an S with Keyless Go, it's now officially available. Sieman's the OEM and has been shipping 500 units a week to various car Mfr's. My order finally went in on the Germany side and has a late July build date scheduled. I'm told about 3 months after that it should be here. Does that sound about right to you guys?

Just a side note, I sent a letter to Mr. Schrempp who is the Chairman of MBUSA inquiring about the uncertainty on the availability of KG, and less than a week later, I get a call from a customer service rep referencing my letter and he had already contacted my dealer and confirmed the build schedule. I most certainly did not expect that kind of response but was really surprised to hear from anyone there so quickly. If this is the bellweather of things to come. That's money well worth spending.