Mazda MPV

sr_srikanth

MPVers,

I am coming back to the board after a long time. Just wanted to update about our trip to Orlando FL from NY (2500 mile round trip).

We have started to take MPV granted for its reliability. No problems at all for the whole trip. Nice and comfortable ride getting 23 MPG. Saw a lot of MPVs throughout the trip. Very happy.

35000 mile update: Had no problems at all so far.
Will end up changing tires after another 5K miles. Go for MPV. I am a very satisfied owner.

Had a parking lot fender bender which left a small dent and scratches on the front bumper. Dealer is suggesting to replace the bumper and I am not ready to shell out so much. Looking for the plastic bumper fixing services around NY. If any body knows any info., very much appreciated.

davrich

Do you really think that the 2002 MPV will be selling near MSRP? If it does, I will really be shocked. as you are well aware, it is not the most popular minivan (and I like it that way, as I don't want to see 10 of the same vans I'm driving when I go the neighborhood park)
which is a plus in the sense that Mazda is going to have to keep it really competitively priced in this market (esp. now that the KIA Sedona is out there). I think the new MSRP will be no more than 3% more than the current - even with the bigger engine (see what happened to the Odyssey - Honda increased engine HP by 30 or 40 horses and their MSRP changed insignificantly between the 2001 and the 2002).

I think that if Mazda dealers want to sell alot of the 2002 minivans, they are going to have to offer it near invoice (perhaps 1 or 2% higher)because there are very few potential buyers that will pay close to MSRP (which is good for customers). Let me know what you think?

javadoc

Actually, I really do think the 2002 MPV will be selling much closer to MSRP, probably not at, but close to it. I too like that the MPV is a bit of a rarity, as I've always driven more off-the-beat cars (no Cavaliers for me).

I'm sure Mazda wants to produce vehicles that sell for MSRP (more profits) and like any business digging for sales and profits, they've got to design products geared to maximize both and the 2002 improvements are responses to the customers (and reviewers) cries for the past 3 years. Let's wait and see about the MSRP increase..I'll gladly insert my foot and applaud if they don't increase pricing $2k, but that's still my guess. They're making a ton of changes on the van for this model year.

The 2002 Odyssey is indeed a tough act to follow for the hp-folks, and it's getting a 5sp tranny also, but really not much else. Besides, they're not putting a different motor into the van, they're messing with the motor (costs less). Almost all of the improvements for the 2002my are from the Honda/Acura parts bin already, so they easily can keep the price down since Honda enjoys an economy of scale. I have to disagree with the MSRP argument because I feel that since you are hard pressed to even get an Ody for MSRP, you should look at out-the-door selling prices. So what, if the MSRP for a 2002 Ody LX is $25k and change if you still pay $27k for it if you pay $24k (I'm *estimating* again for a 2002 model...)for a better equipped (imho) MPV, that actually has an almost identical power-to-wieght ratio for 2002 (meaning for the stoplight racers...it won't be dusted anymore).

The Kia van: Well maybe I'm alone in feeling a serious stigma for anything from that brand or the other (non-Japanese) Asian brands. I personally don't like the styling of the Kia and I think it lacks alot of functionality that the Ody and MPV bring to the table. It's marginally larger than the MPV (by a few inches), it does have a big, snorty engine, but it weighs over 4700lbs, 1000+ more than the MPV and more than the Ody even, so it's a porker and is gonna be dog-slow, or at least as slow as the current MPV at least . Also, you can't get side airbags and have to pay extra for ABS, and it's EPA ratings for fuel economy are SUV-like. However, man is it cheap at under $20k starting price...my question is: why is it so cheap?

Sorry, too much coffee...too much free time...

/Java

reca

You can get an ody at MSRP in most of country. Some dealers are selling them under MSRP right now.

I have to agree with Davrich that even the improved MPV will be selling near invoice price, which could be much higher next year anyway. If you ask people to spend more than 28K, they would buy an Ody EX-L (MSRP) or a Sienna XLE with leather (carsdirect price).

In this boad, most of owners bought their MPV because they did not want to pay too much for Hondas and Toyotas. If the price difference is too little (1-2K), I belive many would-be MPV owners will turn to Honda or Toyota.

otish

Sorry but we like the MPV much more than Odyssey plain and simple. Our next door neighbors got a '99 Ody when they first came out (after many months of waiting but they did get it for under sticker! Wow what a concept). We were considering one too until they got their van, very underwhelming and very much a problem. They weren't even very excited when they brought it home. Not like us when we got this beautiful bright red MPV with leather and moonroof and great stereo and everything we needed. While their Ody continues to go in the shop for problems with the doors, electrical, gas smell, keys, etc... we just keep smiling in our MPV. People still comment about how pretty our new van is (and we bought it Jan. 2000).

scarter7719

actually has a better performing engine than the current MPV (not breaking news) and will likely be similar to the new MPV engine. I believe it was originally designed by BMW. A co-worker of mine has one and I've driven it several times. Not a bad vehicle, definitely not slow, but horrible gas mileage ~20mpg on highway!

scarter7719

sorry, darn twitchy fingers, and didn't want to appear to give a shameless plug to the KIA! Even though the price is enticing (my friend's van came with everything, even RES, in the $24K range) and the financing options look good, I can't get beyond the reliability factor. I drove some of the early Hyundai junk as a company vehicle and it was really bad! That's the stigma KIA has to overcome. They may actually build a good van someday, but I'll remain leery for quite some time.

tboner1965

Yes, it has a nice big 3.5L engine, but it's power output is not exciting and with I believe a curb weight of about 4700# it would be 1000# heavier than an MPV (3600-3700#, IIRC)

Weight to HP Ratios

MPV ES 160 Peak HP and 3682# = 23.01#/HP
KIA EX 195 Peak HP and 4709# = 24.15#/HP

So the Kia has a less favorable power to weight ratio. Or course it has better torque to get rolling, so the Kia is a better choice to tow trailers.

TB

billmckinley

Actually, price was something of an issue with me. My LX was just about at the top of my price range, even with the deep discounts. But I looked first the the Oddity anyway; we've owned several Hondas over the years and were mightily impressed by them. What turned me away from it--and ultimately to the MPV--was these Edmunds forums, both the MPV and the Odyssey ones. Frankly, the Odyssey forums scared the hell out of me. The range and nature of their problems were just too intimidating for me to even think of stretching my budget to fit. Reading their comments and complaints and tales of woe, I had to wonder if they had bought the car blind or because of Honda's reputation and only joined the site later on to share their miseries. Coming to this site, I was struck both by the picayune nature of the problems mentioned and the fierce--sometimes combative--loyalty of the owners. All the writers seemed hopelessly devoted to their admittedly quirky and less-than-perfect beasts [one of the tipoffs was the number of people who named them--you don't give a pet name to something you're busy swearing at].

The point of this mindless ramble is this [finally]: If the 02 is as good as it promises to be--and it should be since it addresses most of our "complaints"--even the reviewers should see the difference. Combine that with the positive reviews even the 00 and 01's are getting here on these forums, and there is going to be a demand for these cars. If that happens, and I think it will, you won't be seeing many deals. Whatever their MSRP, I think you'll be lucky to get a nickel off it.

But if it does what it's promising to do, it'll be worth it.

RJ

evaddave

Are Hyundai and Kia related somehow? I remember the Hyundai brake fiasco, but I haven't heard anything bad about Kia. In fact, my first Kia--a Ford Festiva--was a great car for the price. Basic, reliable transportation and 40 mpg.

maltb

"Are Hyundai and Kia related somehow?"
They are now. Hyundai picked them up last year.

If you had a Festiva, my guess is that you are over 6'1". It seems that everyone I see in one of those is very tall. My 6'6" friend just sold his.

javadoc

...Hyundai picking up Kia...

"I don't know why she swallowed the fly...perhaps she'll die." Kia wouldn't have been my first choice of floundering automobile companies to buy up... but that's not really on topic, sorry.

Oh, and ROFLMAO at that remark evadave...nice pickup there.

/j

davrich

Hello all,

I didn't mean to start up such a controversy, but just wanted some opinions on the '02 MSRP and what they will be selling at.

Does anyone know how long it takes Edmunds to figure out the "street" price once a new model has been released?

I too have been a long Honda customer, but the Oddy definitely does not live up to its siblings in reliability, and with a minivan, reliability comes second to safety, IMHO. It seems that the MPVs are probably the most reliable minivans on the market right now (at least looking at CR and the threads on the MPV problem boards).

As far a safety goes, a vehicle that is able to avoid an accident is, IMO, the safest vehicle, and isn't the MPV the best handling (most car-like driving) minivan around?

And back to the title.... prices. This is my extra two cents. Yes, the 2002 MPV will have a bigger engine and increased HP to 200, but do you really think that is going to satisfy the reviewers when the other minivans they have already ranked above the MPV will have even more power, like the Oddy with 240 and the '03 Sienna, rumored to have around the same. Reviewers have to pick and put out a list from 1 to 6 or 7, in order from best to worst (this is what the average car buyer who does little research wants). This increases newsstand sales. I do not see the MPV finishing in the top 3 of this "new minivan" list, and the "average" consumer may not consider any minivan that did not make the top 3 list, which is just fine with me since it means getting a better deal on, IMO, the best minivan in the market. Thanks for all of your previous thoughts (Javadoc and Billmckinley)

/DP

javadoc

...that this thread has come back to life.

I am sure that the lively topical conversation is welcome around here DP! I agree that he MPV prolly has the reliability (and functionality) issues on their side...now for that confounded horsepower war that the auto-rags like so much.

When C/D reviewed the MPV in a comparo a number of months back, they said that the MPV would have taken the top place if it had one thing... more power. Might we see the same thing happen for the next go-around?

/Java

pjd58

will never be known for it's "power", as with most Mazdas. Mazda is known for well built and designed automoblies. My 01 Protege isn't quick, but it handles like it's on rails. The MPV's increase of 40 horses( 01 160 hp ) is just keeping up with the competition. Although, the 3.0 and especially the 5 speed tranny will make the same curb weight van, except for the slightly heavier engine, a blast to drive.

Java: I agree, I'm glad to see this board come back to life again. Just think, they may be building your 02 Blue ES as we speak.....er Chat:)

Pjd58

tboner1965

The 2.5 and the 3.0 are essentially the same block, with the 3.0 bored out a bit more.

The weight difference engine wise will be very small. (The pistons will be a bit bigger and will weigh just a tad bit more than the aluminum that was bored out of the block.)

So any weight increase will come from the new tranny or any new "goodies" they throw in the van.

TB

evaddave

I guess I go against the Festiva grain. I'm a full foot shorter than your friend...
[MPV content]
...which means I fit in every seat in the MPV just fine!

lawlee

See the official 2002 MPV Specs from Canada Mazda at this site:

www.vakcer.com/mpv/

Click the Info section, then 2002 under Features and Specifications. Lots of details, little surprise.

Happy reading.

davrich

The new specs on the 2002 ES indicates that the power moon roof is going to be standard, as is an in-dash 6 disk changer and fog lamps. If these items were to be added on to a 2001 ES, it would cost at least $1000. Thus, the 2002 ES MSRP should be at least $1000 more than current, just because of the "extra options", and this figure does not take into consideration the addition of power sliding doors, power driver's seat, and traction control.

I guess Javadoc may be right when he guessed the MSRP may be about $2K more (at least for the ES), but then again, you are getting at least $1K in options that are not included in the base 2001 ES. All in all, even with a projected $2K increase in the MSRP of an '02 ES, you're still getting quite a bang for the buck.

/DP

matluoma

davrich - I called US Mazda yesterday & the things listed as STANDARD in canada (the list you saw) are possibly OPTIONS in the US, but Mazda wouldn't go into details beyond - larger engine, 5speed, traction control, sliding doors.

I expect Moonroof, 4-seasons, 6-disc, and GFX as OPTIONS on US vehicles. (The price we pay to be in the USA - kind of makes me want to drive north 8-10 hours.)

Mazda didn't have any price details yesterday,b ut they said the US 2002 will be approximately the price of US 2001.

I wish I knew more, but will have to wait toward the end of December for more details.,

Mat

lawlee

Mat is right. US Specs have more options to choose from whereas Canadian model trims may include more standard features but less options available due to a smaller market. So don't try to compare between oranges and apples.

One interesting thing I found is the new 3.0L delivers peak torque of 200 lb-ft at merely 3000 RPM whereas the current 2.5L delivers peak torque of 165 lb-ft at 4250 RPM. This means the 2002 MPV has a lot more stop-and-go push not just from more horsepower but also a more even power band.

I converted the Transport Canada fuel economy rating to US mpg and get 18.0/24.1 mpg for city/highway respectively. The same conversion for the current 2.5L is 17.4/23.8 mpg for city/highway, which means the 2.5L burns slightly more fuel than the 3.0L, probably due to high-rev to compensate for torque. (Again, don't compare this directly to EPA fuel rating since it's from a different source)

Lawrence

bargain_hunter

considering buying mpv. local dealer has >30 '01s on the lot, and they aren't exactly flying out the door.

can get at invoice minus $1,500 rebate but dealer won't cut me in on his holdback, spiffs or volume incentives.

what's the likelyhood of >$1,500 rebate from mazda in coming month to make room for '02s or dealers willing to crumble below invoice?

davrich

Thanks for the clarification regarding the 2002 specs. I would like to have the option of a moonroof and 6 disc changer. The US specs I hope will come out soon.

Re: bargain hunter -
Yeah, invoice and customer keeping the rebate should be offered at most dealerships. About two months ago, I was asking for the same deal you described, plus 0%APR financing, but the dealer would not commit.

/DP

su_a_ve

It seems that it's not that easy to find 5w20 (then again, other than Kmart and Walmart I haven't looked much elsewhere).

The dealer charges EXTRA for oil changes on the MPV since they oil price is higher (he's using 5w20, I assume). For the winter it would make more sense, but how much more sense. If I can easily find it, I'll bring my own oil to them (or wherever I get the oil changed at - I really don't want to do it myself) but not pay 4-5 per quart...

Are you guys sticking with 5w30 or know where you can get a decent price the 5w20 ? And, no I'm not talking synthetic... (It's an 01 LX). TIA.

tboner1965

It is a semi-synthetic oil and should meet your warranty requirements. I think it is an SL rated oil which is the highest API classification currently.

So check back at "Wally World" for the Motorcraft (Ford) oil in the 5w20 flavor.

TB

javadoc

...get spoiled with the *thick* oil (that's ahhhhhl, y'all). I'm trucking around with 0w30 (but it's synth Amsoil), but it's also -10F right now. Thank God for the remote starter!

Beautiful day w/ the sun and moon up at the same time! I'm waiting for a good shot of the moon over Mt. McKinley (for you RJ!) later today.

/java

tboner1965

...gave me a shot of the moon years ago. It was a funny story, but I had to keep from laughing as I didn't want to encourage this behavior in a 6 year old girl.

Thanks uncle Kevin for teaching her about "mooning"

That's what you were talking about, right Java?

MPV Content, we didn't have one then. I was single, so there was no way I would own a minivan, and the wife just drove her Sunbird into the ground back then.

TB

javadoc

Uh, not exactly, but I can relate *totally* with that experience. But (omg, no pun intended),that's what uncles are for!

Wishing our MPV had a "moon" roof!

/java

billmckinley

You mean they actually named a mountain after my van? WOW!
{You'll notice how smoothly I snuck in the req'd MPV content}

;>

RJ

alexv1n

I don't believe there's any harm from 5w30. Mazda recommended 5w30 for 2000 MPV (that is what in my owner's manual), but then they changed it to 5w20 in order to meet ULEV requirements. So, I believe you can put 5w30 in your 2001 and still be happy :-)

bargain_hunter

Is dual air conditioning worth the extra $512? what's it like in back of an lx during warm weather with single air?

scarter7719

I suppose it depends on where you live. Here in FLA, I would never do without it. With no rear a/c, I can imagine that the front passengers would feel like they're sitting on iceblocks just so the rear folks are comfortable. It's very convenient when those sitting in the rear, especially the third row, would like more a/c than the front. Case in point: we were on our way to our daughter's X-mas school program last night and it was just warm enough to run the a/c (no more snowballs please, java :<). I had both front and rear on 1. My girl, who was clad in a heavy dress, was burning up. So I turned the back on 3 and voila....all whining ceased! FWIW, I've noticed that our Alaskan and Canadian friends on this list who didn't get rear a/c wished they had it too....

SC

alexv1n

I was glad rear A/C is standard on LX&ES in Canada. I didn't have to choose :-) But I'm glad I have it. Especially in the summer when van sits in hot sun for some time and then we need to cool it down (otherwise we'd be cooked inside). Rear air really helps. But even during regular driving conditions, I think it's better to have both A/Cs run at 1 than having front try to cool down the rear and freeze the front occupants...

My 2.3487 cents.

maltb

I'm in Southern California and had an MPV with front air only; never again! We now have an LX with dual air and my kids talk to me again.

scarter7719

I'm not sure if I solved the mystery of why I have rust stains on my garage floor from rear a/c condensation. Originally I thought it was from the MPV, but it must be a reaction in the concrete to the water. I suspended some white paper towels under the drip source one day, kinda like a coffee filter, then allowed them to dry - no change in color. I did crawl under the van to see how the water escapes. I looks like it just drips through a weld seam behind the wheel well. BTW, my wife didn't take advantage of the opportunity to do me in (just joking, of course!). I think she realizes that without me, the MPV would be repo-ed!

Geez, two posts in one day! I obviously have too much time on my hands....darn this slow economy

tboner1965

We were discussing the "Moon" yesterday, so I thought I'd pass along this cute link.

You may not want to open it at work, although I did 8^)

http://www.madblast.com/flash_shows/elves.cfm

TB

jacksonian

Hi
Can some of you out there who are using K&N oil filters tell me if they work well with the MPV and if they are really worth the extra $$$.
also what is the number of the filter your using
thanks everyone

tboner1965

Yes, they are worth it in my opinion. They are the only filter that has a rated flow capacity that is in excess of what the oil pump will flow.

Some of the more spiritly driven Contours with this same engine are suffering oil starvation issues during long right hand sweepers at high RPMs. (Not likely in a minivan, but I'd rather be safe.)

So I'm of the school of thought that believe more oil available is prefereable to the cleanest oil that can't get through the filter fast enough.

I think it is HP-2010 on the K&N filter. Not so sure on the HP part, but the 2010 is right on.

TB

msgjvh

2010 is correct. I have used nothing less then the K&N for 42,000 miles. It is certainly worth the additional cost. Think of it as insurance. Be warned, there were early post about the cheap filters backing off and the Duratec losing its lifefluid. The nice thing about the K&N is its the only one (I believe) that you can get with the 1" nut on the end. Highly useful when tightening the oil filter as advised in the manual. Do not I repeat do not put one on hand tight like you would other vehicles. You need to go at least 1/4 with a wrench of some type. You can use the little plastic top ones or you can use a 1" wrench with the K&N.

bargain_hunter

other options people think are must have's other than dual air conditioning?

marcb

...and thats a tip i picked up from the others here also :-)

javadoc

these threads come to life!

okay, to the rear a/c question...your Alaskan friend has it, and wouldn't live w/o it, even up here where the hottest I've seen is 82F in the past 30years. When we went shopping for Mochavan, the rear a/c was on the "we'll get it if it's on there" side of our want list. The Four-Seasons and Touring packages were our "must haves" tho.

Tboner, re: K&N oil filters. I'm glad you're very happy w/them, and I'm getting tempted to start using them soon. Could the oil starvation issue on the Contours be due to oil slosh? I didn't know if the Contour's oil pan comes with windage trays (usually a racer's item), which would prevent the oil from scavenging away from the pump's pickup. Just a wandering thought. Oh, and that link was fuuuuunnnnyyyy!

Accessories and such, bargain_hunter: just like marcb wrote, the rear bumper step plate is great to have, esp. when you go to Home Depot and bring back cabinets or something. Saves marriages I'm told. Think about a "Clutter Catcher" for between the front seats. They're great and fit fine, imho. $40 or so at WallyWorld.

okay, back to shopping on ebay...er, I mean working...

/java

tboner1965

A minor windage tray on the Contour. It seems someone fitted a clear (or regular pan with a "window" ) on a Contour and ran the engine at high RPMs (Like 5000+) and there was about 1/2 pint of oil remaining in the pan. To put that in coffee terms, thats like a regular cup of coffee, and not even near what you find in a double mocha blast or whatever you are currently drinking.

Keep in mind, this was on a dyno, so the engine was not experiencing any slosh, just a lot of oil being held in all of the DOHC workings. If I can find the links I'll post them. They won't be as funny as the last one I posted.

So the problem occurs if you are running at say 5000RPMs + and taking a long sweeping RH turn.

It even appears some at Ford are considering an additional quart of oil in the same oil pan so the pickup is not uncovered during hard cornering.

Let me add that I doubt this will be a problem on many MPVs simply because they don't get driven the same way.

I really don't know if the K&N oil filter will improve or prevent the problem, but I don't want my oil filter to be the choke point preventing oil reaching where it needs to go.

TB

tboner1965

could be rumor, heresay, but usually these folks know what they are talking about.

FWIW, Terry Haines was an engineer on the Contour product for Ford and his word is typically considered gospel. Rara works for Ford and the thread starter is working on some high performance custom applications of the Duratec.

If you read, a few of these gentlemen have built 3L engines using the 2.5L heads, so they are very familiar with the hardware.

http://www.contour.org/cgi-ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=47&t=000043&p=

TB

scarter7719

OMG sorry Java! After I posted my response to bargain_hunter, I was looking back at that earlier thread on rear a/c and realized I had blundered (he said after removing foot from mouth!).

[MPV Content] Yippeee! Just got a call from the Mazda dealer...van is in for a fuel door opening problem, for which they replaced the door...and they're ordering all the parts to fix my brake squeal! Just showed them the TSB and they said "no problem".

SC

javadoc

...that would be a raspberry mocha ;-) But I did goto 31Flavors and get a Mocha Blast last night, for that extra kick while working on a paper. I'm just happy that there's actually going to be a real Starbucks on my route to the office soon!

Wow, the Duratec sucks up all but a pint? If not for ground clearance issues, I'd have made a larger oilpan for the car. I'm sure there are aftermarked pans anyways, as the Contour has a very good following (you're making me miss mine now... almost). What's the Roush reference on your last post's heading?

I doubt anyone w/an MPV will be having any oil starvation probs unless they let the oil levels drop, so nobody do that. However, it does handle very well. Can you see a single-make SCCA series, the "MPV Cup?" I'd be there, who else?

Oh, the EBD system on the abs saved my bacon last night (yes, on the way back from 31Flavs) when a moose decided he wanted to become my hood ornament. Whew, thank God that I could whoa Mochavan down quickly enough and pivot the van on the icy street.

/Java

j2kbarlow

...I'm pleased to know that we're all driving around with Porsche designed motors! Somehow the power issue doesn't seem to be so severe now :O)

tboner1965

Rousch. They are the ones supposedly doing the study of the Duratec

TB

badgermomma

My DH spilled coffee on my gray interior and of course even with lots of blotting it is a noticable thing. Oh and he managed to miss the floor mats entirely, it is between the front seats.

I am NOT a coffee drinker so this is a source of hostility for me to have a coffee stain in my "new" van.

suggestions?

J

marcb

...considering java's experience with mochavan, he should be able to give you some tips.