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My Wife and I enjoy the ride of a sedan, and the MPV is the most car-like handling van on the road today. We didn't want a Truck-like van to haul the family. We also didn't need a van the "monster size" of a Sedona, Ody, Windstar, Grand Caravan etc. Our family of 4 has more than enough room to haul all our cargo.
Korea vs. Japan..........I'm sorry the Kia just isn't up to par.
It's nice another van owner stops by and reminds me I made the right decision:)
Java: Yes, you are harping, and you have every right to:)
Pjd58
I knew I was asking for debate when I initially posted, fair enough. I can say that I differ with some of the comments. Kia has posted record sales contrary to greater share of the market. Styling is conventional I grant you but entering into a brutal market such as the mini-van sector would lend itself to being conservative. Every review I have read and my own personal test drives have offered much different results as far as power and handling. Check out the torque range: peaks at 3500 rpms. Mileage. It is my understanding that Kia was very conservative in posting the mileage estimates. I have read every post on the Sedona Town Hall board and most experience a 24-25 mpg hwy range. Weight. Yes it is heavier (4907 lb) I believe due to the extensive steel unibody design mated to a full frame infastructure (very impressive considering I do alot of towing)it will bode very well in the scheduled crash test early 2002. The comments are very positive as far as quiet ride. You may want to check out this forum. The vast majority of complaints on the Sedona board are from frustrated potential buyers that can't find the vehicle they want. I personally was not impressed with the two MPVs I drove. Excessive road noise and an overriding "tinny" sound, steady vibration coming through the steering column, distinct lack of power. The center dash controls seemed to plastic and did not have a quality feel to me. But to each his own, we are blessed with many choices. I like the solid road feel of the Sedona and power, it has lots. It has a quality feel without comprimise. I agree it has slight front end roll but we all know that tires provided by manufacturers are NOT what you can buy on the shelf under the same name. I am confident a good set of Michelins or Yokohamas will cure this. The leather seats are first rate, as good as any European import I have owned. The hideaway rear seat no doubt will be addressed in the future, but for me it was not important. Time will tell, and like many I would rather have a great reliable vehicle vs. a great warranty. Someone has to get out on the dance floor first, and I'm going on due dilligence and faith. I believe the price will go up on these vans because of the huge demand for them, potentially making it's value increase to "charter" purchasers such as myself. For now I think for many the time is right to get a great value. The Mazda MPV is a great choice for many.The Sedona is simply another choice so why not give it a look? This was my basic premise to begin with.
I believe your on the wrong board. I noticed from the Sedona thread you intend to use your van for towing. Most Mpv owners could care less about towing. Try pleading your case to Windstar and DC owners since they don't seem to care about reliablity. Time will tell if the Sedona will be a great van, the 00 & 01 MPV's have proven their worth. As Elliot Ness once said " Here end of the lesson".
You coming on this board serves no purpose, as you stated. If my tone is harsh, which I don't believe it is,it's because I will defend my MPV. Especially, when a Kia owner comes on this board trying to convince us we may have made a bad decision. That is the way you came across.
My recommendation is go to another board....Example. Sedona vs blah blah blah. Or start your own Sedona vs MPV thread. Coming to the MPV owners board and expressing your vitures of the Kia over the MPV is stirring the pot.
Read your post(2357) to me, YOU and only YOU have personally attacked me.
I wish many happy and safe miles with your new Sedona.
Pete(Pjd58).... a happy MPV owner
/javadoc
I kinda understand both excelent3 and pjd. First, I understand excelent3's original post and don't see it is "wrong" or anything to post something like this here. I don't think that his original intention was to convince onwers of MPV that they did a wrong choice to have bought it. He just wanted to prompt an alternative for people currently looking for a van and which might find MPV small or underpowered or too noisy or whatever else. Everyone decides on his/her own taste/set of preferences. For me personally the power wasn't an issue and I'd prefer handling, good looks and proven reliability over performance (even though the 2002 MPV will cover even the gap on the performance side).
I also support pjd's original post attempting to voice his counter-opinion about the MPV vs Sedona. Everyone is entitled to his own opinion and we just need to show why WE chose MPV. It could be countless number of factors. So, let's be civilized and don't go low to pointless flame wars and insulting each other.
I have always enjoyed friendliness of the MPV community and I really hate to read rude messages on numerous Edmunds forums whenever an "outsider" utters a word about "the other" van/car. I would like to encourage everyone to keep your temper to yourself and use educated words to solve all our controversy. That way we will be helping each other. Remember those recent ads: "Hate won't stop hate"?
Take care and happy holidays.
P.S. Excelent3, congratulations on your new purchase. I hope you'll enjoy your Sedona as much as I have our MPV.
This board is for MPV owners to share their knowledge and experience and for all of us to learn more. This board is not for a Kia owner trying to convince us we made a poor decision. As Java and I stated, Fred should start a vs.topic.
Alex, thanks for your input.
Pjd58....... I have very thick skin:)
Name calling and ad hominym comments are the last arguments of desperate people in the arena of ideas.
This is still rather mild compared to the Odyssey vs XXX boards. It seems there were some serious Odyseey snobs who could not understand that intelligent people could drive and DISMISS the H.O. as a choice.
I've never understood why people, once they've purchased, would start a Model X vs Model Y board. I could care less what my neighbor drives, just as long as he drives it well!
IMNSHO, how one drives is far more important that what you drive.
FWIW,
TB
What's hot:
1) Good reliability with only 2 minor problems (Block heater cord shorted out and driver's window regulator needed replacing because of excessive noise)
2) Good handling,ride and braking.
3) Comfortable seating
4) 3rd seat functionality
5) Excellent dealer (Target Motors Thunder Bay Ontario Canada)
What's not:
1) Less than smooth shifting auto trans
2) Acceleration (especially with AC on)
3) Developing a fair number of interior squeaks and rattles
Because of the drivetrain it goes to a new home in 7 months.
Alex is right on the money about the 02 MPV. The 5 speed tranny and 3.0 should help.
Good luck, and Happy New Year!
Pjd58
1.Don't judge a book by it's cover. Until the crash tests are actually done,there is no way to tell how it will do.
2.The time you will most likely 'pay' is on resale,even more than the MPV owner. It is currently a fact that KIA's have terrible resale values.
3.The KIA seems pretty nice and has a great price,but it is new and reliability is a total unknown.
4. Good luck with your new vehicle.
To the MPV owner:
1.You too will pay some at resale time.
2.This is mainly due to the 'perception'of an underpowered vehicle. And it is a fact that the V6 is the weakest of them all and should have been stronger.
3.Reliability is it's strongest point.
4.Good luck with your vehicle.
RJ
1. tires bad 17k
2. paint chipping( dealer painted the doors and front end) I bought mud guards and bug deflector.
3. front end noise( dealer replaced caliper bolts) did not work.
4. All vinyl replaced on outside of van by dealer ( faded).
5. Now a new noise to the front end( I believe it is the struts) made appointment.
I have had bad luck with this MPV. I am looking at all options right now!
Its weird that I like the MPV so well, with all the problems I've had with my van in just 2yrs. but I am not giving up hope yet. Waiting on the 2002 for better luck!!!!!!
There should be some "stoppers" that you bend in on the inside of the box to get it loose. Basically, it's a matter of flexing the back-top of the compartment. Then, you pull the glove box toward you while pushing down, and remove what Mazda calls "Clip A" which is located on the left wall of the compartment I believe. Finally, you slide the glove box toward the driver's door (left) and the box should be free and in your capable hands.
After you get the box out of the way, you just basically remove the cover from the filter box and pull the filter out. Carefull, I'd get a plastic bag ready for the filter just in case it's extra dirty.
Hope that gets you thru it!
/javadoc
Even if you don't work for Ford you may be eligible for X-Plan (which makes you eligible for the S-Plan) Check with your HR dept. Many Universities and business are partners.
I doubt a dealer will take my X-Plan for a new T-Bird. (I'd just sell it for the difference!)
TB
Participating dealerships agree to comply with all of the terms outlined in this document, including the Red Carpet Lease Option provisions. Authorized Ford, Lincoln-Mercury, Jaguar, Volvo, Land Rover, and Mazda dealerships are encouraged, but not obligated, to participate in the New Vehicle Purchase Plan. Participating dealerships must sign a Dealer Agreement located on the New Vehicle Purchase Plan / Red Carpet Lease Option Customer / Dealer Agreement and Pricing Sheet (Attachment II) on each New Vehicle Purchase Plan sale or Red Carpet Lease.
Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
Stone, I agree, but sometimes some disagreements do crop up (even in our happy MPV club here), and it's hard to just watch when someone comes and takes your Tonka toys out of your sandbox (repressed childhood issues, lol), whether they are an informed or ignorant character. I remember back in the *old* TH format, the MPV forum was lively with Ody-vs-MPV discussions, which, imho, where very interesting and entertaining. I think they also helped solidify some folks' decisions on what vans to buy or not. I think I've mellowed in my old age and tend to let it roll more than I used to.
Happy motoring kiddos!
/java
/java
Dunno about financing, but think it is similar.
TB
/java
Pete(Pjd58)
X-Plan = A-Plan + 4%
A-Plan = invoice - holdback + $25
A-Plan factory order = invoice - holdback + $25 - wholesale assistance
holdback = (invoice - freight) x 2%
Here's Ford's description of the plan:
Friends and Neighbors Program
Plan Description
The intent of the X-PLAN is to introduce our products to potential customers
who are considering the purchase of competitive
products, and to strengthen loyalty for Ford products among current Ford
consumers, including former X-PLAN customers. In
all cases, X-PLAN sales must be in the best interests of the Company and
should not substitute for normal retail sales.
X-PLAN requests must be approved for individuals only and not for companies
or organizations. Active employees may
approve their own X-PLAN requests using the X-PLAN System; no other
approvals are required.
Employees are encouraged to seek out competitive vehicle owners and solicit
X-PLAN purchases; however, current Ford
owners are also eligible. Active employees of the parent Company and certain
subsidiary companies in the U.S. may sponsor
up to four X-PLAN requests per calendar year.
Eligibility
Potential X-PLAN customers include:
Former X-PLAN customers.
Those individuals who would reasonably be expected to purchase a
competitive vehicle if not offered this incentive.
Excluded from eligibility are:
Government employees and officials whose use of the plan may be
construed as influencing a public official.
Employees of Ford, Lincoln. Mercury, Jaguar, Mazda, Land Rover or
Volvo dealerships.
Note: Only employees and retirees who have access to the X-PLAN System
via the Ford Intranet or the Internet
(www.fordvehicleprograms.com) are eligible to sponsor X-PLAN customers
Pricing
X-PLAN pricing for Ford and Lincoln-Mercury products is 4% over
the Ford A-PLAN price, which is the
dealer's net price. For Land Rover, the formula is 4% of MSRP
(excluding freight) added to the invoice price
(freight included) and for Volvo 2% over A-PLAN.
X-PLAN sales are also eligible for any applicable retail
incentives.
A-PLAN prices are available on the A-PLAN System.
Leasing for Ford, Lincoln-Mercury and Volvo products is available
through Ford Credit Red Carpet Leasing and Volvo
Leasing only, no other leasing sources are allowed.
Model Availability
With the exception of Jaguar, all domestically marketed current
model vehicles available on the A-PLAN may be
purchased on the X-PLAN.
The Company may, at its discretion, exclude certain high demand
models from the X-PLAN.
Mazda products are available under the S-PLAN.
New, prior model year vehicles are also available, up to March 31 of
the current model year.
Retention
Vehicles purchased under the X- PLAN must be titled in the name of the
eligible participant and kept in their possession
for 6 months.
Process
X-PLAN purchases require the employee sponsor to generate a Personal
Identification Number (PIN) for each sale.
PINs are available only through the X-PLAN System. To obtain a PIN, the
customer's full legal name, address and
Social Security Number are required.
As soon as the system generates a PIN, the employee sponsor may give
the PIN to the customer to take to the dealer if
they wish; however, within 48 hours of a PIN being generated, a letter
is automatically mailed to the customer with their
PIN, instructions for completing the transaction and thanking them for
their consideration of a Ford Motor Company
product. No other action or approval is required on the part of the
employee sponsor.
SURVIVING SPOUSES ARE NOT ELIGIBLE TO SPONSOR X-PLAN CUSTOMERS.
Note: Canada has its own Friends and Neighbors Program similar to, but
exclusive of, the U.S. Program.
This comes to a price that is ALWAYS a few hundred bucks below invoice. Not only that, these Plans also qualify for any cash/rebate/financing incentives
(from FORD, not dealer rebates). That could be a few hundred or thousand bucks more below invoice. SVT vehicles (Lightning, Cobra, etc.) are NOT eligible.
/javadoc
TB
We were out in Western PA visiting my in-laws that weekend and it was really cold (unless you live in Canada or Alaska). My wife started up the van, grabbed the key fob, and went back inside to let the van warm up. For some crazy reason, she hit the power lock button on the door--I can count on one hand the number of times she's done that in the last 2 years--locking the doors so nobody could steal it. When we went out to the van and pushed the Unlock button on the key fob. Nothing. We pressed it some more. Still Nothing.
So there we were, 6 hours from home with a locked van and the engine running. Fortunately I had my set of keys with me, though they were inside. We grabbed those and unlocked the driver door manually (another rare occurrance) and all was well.
The moral of the story? The key fob doesn't work when the engine is running. Why? I don't know. Anyone have any ideas?
Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
I'd imagine it's a safety issue, and might just stem from liability concerns, as far fetched as that may seem. However, I can see how it would look like the opposite of a safety item with what happened to you folks.
Hope that helps, and sorry to hear that such an item is spoiling your experience w/ the van.
/java
One time I *think* I unlocked a Nissan sedan with my fob, but the owner may have been nearby too. (I didn't hang around to investigate my theory). Maybe I should stand on some corner during rush hour and see if the panic button on my fob can set off someone's horn :-)
Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
/java
If it weren't after midnight here, I'd go redo my experiments.
Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
Of course, I just heard about it - I wasn't there....
/java
Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
/javadoc
The Sienna puts you to sleep on long trips and the MPV's ashtray is too small.
It's getting hard to complain anymore!
Must run over to the Sedona site...
carry on...lol